Karu 2.0

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Omzinesý
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Karu 2.0

Post by Omzinesý »

My older projects that affect this one are Kahicali (with its several versions) and Karu, which is a reasent lang of mine. It will also seek for inspiration in Lakota.

Ideas
- Open syllables only
- Incorporation
- Two cases: Direct and Oblique
- Mostly head-marking
- ATM im interested in articles that code definiteness and number
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Jan 2022 18:51, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A new lang combining some old ideas - name will be found up later

Post by Omzinesý »

Consonants
p t k <p t k>
s ʃ ç x <s š ȟ h>
m n <m n>
l r j ɣ~ʁ<l r j g>

Vowels
i ĩ wi wĩ u ũ <i į wi wį u ų>
e we o <e we o>
ä ã wa wã <a ą wa wą>

It seems I'm more interested in copying Kahichali (my older lang) vowels than the Lakota ones.
i ĩ wi wĩ u ũ <i į wi wį u ų>
ɛ ɛ̃ wɛ wɛ̃ ɑ ɑ̃ wɑ wɑ̃ <e ę we wę a ą wa wą>


Syllable structure:
(C)(C)V

The allowed consonant clusters are:
plosive + fricative/liquid
{p t k} + {s ʃ ç x l r}

Note
/w/ is considered part of diphthongs, not a consonant. So sullables like /pswi/ do appear. Syllables like /jwi/ are also allowed.

Stress
Edit: Updated the stress section
All words have one (main) stress that usually falls on one of the first syllables and never appears on the last syllable.
The stressed syllable has a contrast between mid (or slightly lowering tone) and a sharply rising tone.

Stress with mid tone is written with acute <á> (might be omitted on the first syllable), and stress with the rising tone is written with circumflex <â>
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Re: A new lang combining some old ideas - name will be found up later

Post by Omzinesý »

Nominal Morphology

Morphological nouns
The only obligatory inflection of nouns is case. There are two cases: Direct and Oblique. Oblique is formed from Direct by changing the last vowel.

Direct => Oblique
a => e / o
wa => we
i => e
wi => we
u => o
ą => ąme
wą => ume
ų => ųme
į => įme
wį => ume

Articles
Articles code number and defiteness/specificity/deixis. There are four numbers: Singular, Dual, Paucal, and Plural. There are six degrees of definiteness: Definite Anaphoric, Definite Deictic, Indefinite, Nonspecific, and (coded with no article) Generic.
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Re: A new lang combining some old ideas - name will be found up later

Post by Omzinesý »

Syntax of NPs

The lang is left-branching. Complex NPs are: [article] [genitive] [adjective*] [noun]

*There aren't real adjectives but stative verbs but here it is not important.

Genitive attributes appear in Oblique case.

Compounds also appear. The head follows the modifier.


Coordination of two nouns
There is no word for 'and'. Two words are just juxtaposed and they share a common article. The article appears in Dual if there are two nouns cordinated and in Paucal or Plural if there are more. The phenomenon resembles dvandva compounds but is syntactic rather than lexical.
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Re: A new lang combining some old ideas - name will be found up later

Post by Omzinesý »

Verb morphology

I'm stealing quite much from Karu (my older project) verb. The exact content of the slot 2 is still unclear. How many voices does the language need.

The preliminary verb template is:
-1[incorporation] 0[stem], 1[inceptive, cessiative, causative] 2[reciprocal, reflexive, autobenefactive, applicative] 3[passive, perfect], 4[mood, agreement], 5[volitionality, resultative, negation]

The slot 5 is copied from Karu (some sounds are changed). It combines markers of volitionality, resultativity (aspect), and negation. The slot is "not obligatory", that is, the values can be unmarked. Negation must, however, have a stance on volitionality (if you reject doing something or cannot do something).

-Ø - unmarked
ne - Volitional
ši - Nonvolitional
se - Resultative
wa - Irresultative
la - Volitional negative ('reject')
me - Nonvolitional negative ('cannot')
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Re: A new lang combining some old ideas - name will be found up later

Post by eldin raigmore »

What is genation?
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Re: A new lang combining some old ideas - name will be found up later

Post by Omzinesý »

eldin raigmore wrote: 16 Nov 2021 18:03 What is genation?
How can negation turn to genation when I copy-paste the section from Karu thread. [xP]
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Re: A new lang combining some old ideas - name will be found up later

Post by eldin raigmore »

Omzinesý wrote: 17 Nov 2021 16:58 How can negation turn to genation when I copy-paste the section from Karu thread. [xP]
I see! And you’ve already corrected it in the relevant post! Thanks!
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Re: A new lang combining some old ideas - name will be found up later

Post by Omzinesý »

Verbs have two sets of person suffixes:
a) ones appearing after a stop
b) ones appearing after other phonemes.

rop-š-a
say-SG1-MOOD*

* Not sure what that mood slot will be.

-š 1srp
-l 2ndp/PROXIMATE
-Ø 3dp
-raw PL1INCL

ropša 'I said'
ropla 'you said', 's/he (present) said'
ropa 's/he said'
roprawa 'we said'

Code: Select all

me you her us 
I ... -up -š ...
you -eh ... -l ... 
she -an -om -Ø -ter
we ... ... -raw ...
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Re: A new lang combining some old ideas - name will be found up later

Post by Omzinesý »

Stress and tone

The phenomena of stress and tone are interconnected but different.

Tone
There are two tones: high/marked and low/neutral. The high tone is written with the acute <á>.

Restrictions
a) Every phonetic word must have at least one high-tone syllable.
b) Two high-tone syllables cannot appear on adjacent syllables.
c) The last syllable cannot have a high tone.

Stress
Stress realizes as high tone and longer vowel of the syllable. If tone is considered phonemic, stress is not. There is one and only one stressed syllable per phonetic word. Stress appears on the last high-tone syllable. Stress thus cannot appear on the last syllable.

Alternative description: The vowel of the last high-tone syllable of every phonetic word is lengthened.
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Re: Karu 2.0

Post by Omzinesý »

The last vowel of a verb codes (syntactic) transitivity like "conjugations" in Hungarian.

-a 'definite object'

Garųpša. 'I wrote it.'
U weth'a garųpša. 'I wrote the book.'

-u 'unergative verb or syntactically transitive verb with an indefinite object'

Garųpšu. 'I wrote.'
Sa weth'a garųpšu. 'I wrote a book.'

Unergative verbs can have any final vowel. If they form a paradigm with -a and -i, they have -e or -u, though.

Satšu. 'I died.'
Satša. 'I killed him.'
Satši. 'I killed.'

I'm thinking if "Proximate Subject" should be also coded in that morpheme. Nasalization (older suffix -n) is would still be free.


The language doesn't have case marking of subjects and objects.

U gamį sata. 'He killed the bear.' or 'The bear killed him.'

If both the subject and the syntactically transitive object are full NPs, the verb is passivized and the subject demoted to a by-agent.

U gamį satenu u pelumi.
DEF bear kill-PASS-UNERG DEF man-OBL
'The man killed the bear.'
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Re: Karu 2.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Word classes

There are three open word classes: Nouns, Statives, and Verbs. Adjectives is a semi open class, but it's questionable if they are words or proclitics.

Code: Select all

		Nouns	Statives	Verbs
Argument	Yes	No		No
Modifier	Yes	Yes		No
Predicate	No	Yes		Yes
Class changing derivation is, of course, common.
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Re: Karu 2.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Noun phrase

Morphology

Nouns have three forms: Direct case, Oblique case, and Compound stem.

Direct case codes the core arguments of the clause.
Oblique case codes adjuncts or genitive modifiers.
Compound form is a more fused modifier of a noun or an incorporated nominal stem in a verb.

Direct is the basic form of a noun.
Oblique is formed by nasalising the last vowel. Its older marker was a nasal consonant.
The Compound stem of most nouns is identical with Direct case form. Some nouns have irregular Compound stems.

DIR pine 'child'
OBL pinę
COMP pį-

pįȟáni 'kitten' (child-cat)

What I call adjectives are defective nouns that lack Direct and Oblique cases but only appear as Compound stems.
mwa- 'big, much'


Most nominal phrases are preceded by an article. Articles work very much like those in SAE languages. Articles code "definiteness" and number.

There are four decrees of definiteness:
1) Generic ("Cats have long tails." or "The car has a long tail." mean the same and refer to all (typical) cats. The speaker has no special or even hypothetical cat in their mind. That article is also used before mass nouns.)
2) Indefinite (The speaker has a specific or hypothetical cat in their mind but the addressee does not know the cat.)
3) Proximal (This article does not so much refer to deixis but that the referent is physically or metaphorically present with the interlocutors. "The cat as you see")
4) Anaphoric (The cat is known from the language-internal context. Usually, it has been mentioned before. I usually gloss this article "DEF".)

There are three numbers:
1) Singular
2) Dual
3) Plural

That makes 12 forms of the article.

Articles might also be dropped in some contexts, which I don't know yet.

Articles can also have possessor suffixes.
u-si ȟani
DEF-my cat
'my cat (not present)'


Syntax
NPs are mainly left-branching. Modifiers are positioned between the article and the head noun.

u [u-si kęsą] ȟani
DEF DEF-my spouse.OBL cat
'my spouse's cat'

Statives (Here, you can think them as adjectives.) can precede the head if they are short but, if they have a long "stative phrase" they follow the head.

u-si šena ȟani
DEF-my lovely cat
'my lovely cat'

u-si ȟani muku šena
DEF-my cat very lovely
'my very lovely cat'

Karu has no word for 'and'. Coordinated nouns just share a common article that has a higher number than an article of a single NP.

u [tswe murą ȟanį] kȟiwa
DEF [DEF.DUAL dog.OBL cat.OBL] friend
'the friend of the cat and the dog'

You can see that, in the beginning of the NP, there can be several articles in line. (There might also be contraction of two similar articles.)
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Re: Karu 2.0

Post by Omzinesý »

I realized that, in a left-branching language, all articles bunch at the left edge of an NP. So, two identical articles don't have to appear in line. One is omitted.

u kȟiwą ȟani
DEF friend cat
'the cat of the friend'

But if number or definiteness differs, two articles appear.
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Re: Karu 2.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Started translating Bible texts to karu. Genesis has everything. I hope no one minds me citing this story.

6 'Judah found a wife for his oldest son, Er. Her name was Tamar.' => 'Judah married Er to a Tamar.'

Code: Select all

U Eri 		si Tamare 		šithakąlatenu 			u Jute. 
u Eri 		si Tamara-(a=>e)	šitha-kąl-at-en-u 		u Juta-(a=>e) 
DEF NAME 	INDEF NAME-OBL 		wife-take-CAUS-PASS-UNERG 	DEF NAME-OBL

7 'But the Lord saw that Er, Judah's firstborn son, was very bad. So the Lord made him die.' => 'Because in God's opinition Er was bad, he made him die.'

Code: Select all

U Waje 		u Eri 	hukaję,		khetata.
u waja-(a=>e) 	u Eri 	huka-ję,	khet-at-a
DEF God-OBL 	DEF E 	bad-because, 	die-CAUS-DEF.OBJ

8 'Then Judah said to Onan, ‘You should marry your dead brother's wife and have sex with her. You are her dead husband's brother. You must have a son who will become your dead brother's descendant.’'


9 'But Onan did not want Tamar to give birth to his child. He knew that the child would not belong to him. So when he had sex with his brother's wife Tamar, he made his semen go on to the ground. Then Tamar would not give birth to a child for Onan's dead brother.'

Code: Select all

U Onana te,	matsuhępȟasa 				junera.
U Onana te,	ma-tsuhem-ȟ-a-sa 			jun-er-a.
DEF O TOP.but	woman-impregnate-IRR.SG3-DEF.O-NMLZ 	want-NEG.SG3-DEF.O 



10 What Onan did was bad, and the Lord was not pleased with him. So the Lord made Onan die too.

11Then Judah said to his son's widow, Tamar, ‘Go back to your father's house and live there as a widow. Stay there until my son Shelah grows older.’ Judah thought, ‘I do not want Shelah to die in the way that his brothers died.’ So Tamar went to live in her father's house.
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Re: Karu 2.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Dictionary

šitha 'wife'
mane, ma- 'woman'
waja 'god'

kąl- 'take'
khet- 'die'
jun- 'want'
tsuhem- 'impregnate' (probably should be derived)

huka 'bad'
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Re: Karu 2.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote: 28 Dec 2021 13:35 The last vowel of a verb codes (syntactic) transitivity like "conjugations" in Hungarian.

-a 'definite object'

Garųpša. 'I wrote it.'
U weth'a garųpša. 'I wrote the book.'

-u 'unergative verb or syntactically transitive verb with an indefinite object'

Garųpšu. 'I wrote.'
Sa weth'a garųpšu. 'I wrote a book.'

Unergative verbs can have any final vowel. If they form a paradigm with -a and -i, they have -e or -u, though.

Satšu. 'I died.'
Satša. 'I killed him.'
Satši. 'I killed.'
Marking object definiteness is important because otherwise two kinds of incorporation could not be distinguished. Lexical incorporation (1) demotes the object which is understood to be generic or unimportant. Classificatory incorporation (2) does not demote the object. Its object is understood to be definite, and an explicit object NP could be added. It is, though, rare because the incorporated stem identifies the referent of the object well usually.

(1)
U Eri šithakąlu.
u E šitha-kąl-u
DEF E woman-take-ENERG
'Eri married (a woman).'

(2)
U Eri šithakąla.
u E šitha-kąl-a
DEF E woman-take-DEF.O
'Eri married her/the woman.'
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Re: Karu 2.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Translations need some strategies of subordination.

I would like to have some converbs for adverbial clauses. Switch reference marking could also appear.

Something preliminary
(1)
Sa wetȟa garųpšu, nuhirekli.
sa wetȟa garųp-š-u, nuhir-ek-li
INDEF book write-SG1-INDEF.O, popular-INCH-PURPOSE.CONV.SS
'I wrote a book, in order to get popular'

(2)
Sa wetȟa garųpšu, jomisą sojara.
sa wetȟa garųp-š-u, jomisa-NASAL soja-ra
INDEF book write-SG1-INDEF.O, daughter-OBL read-PURPOSE.CONV.DS
'I wrote a book for my daughter to read.'
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Re: A new lang combining some old ideas - name will be found up later

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote: 16 Nov 2021 14:00The preliminary verb template is:
-1[incorporation] 0[stem], 1[inceptive, cessiative, causative] 2[reciprocal, reflexive, autobenefactive, applicative] 3[passive, perfect], 4[mood, agreement], 5[volitionality, resultative, negation]
I think converb markers will appear in the slot 4.
They differ from moods in that they don't have person marking. They only have switch-reference marking.

Code: Select all

Rųju-š-u 
eat-SG1.IND-INDEF.O 
'I am/was eating.' 

Code: Select all

Lawą rųju-ng-u, u petsu kamu-ser-u.
SG1.OBL eat-CONV.DS.PROG-INDEF.O DEF man story-tell-INDEF.O
'When I was eating, the man told stories.' 
'Me being eating, .the man told stories.' 

Code: Select all

Rųju-n-u, kamu-seru-š-u
SG1.OBL eat-CONV.SS.PROG-INDEF.O, story-tell-INDEF.O
'When I was eating, I told stories.[did something].' 
'When eating, I told stories.' 

What could the semantics of the converbs be?
sequential converb It generally brings events on. It could be translated 'and then'.
Attendant circumstance The relation between the events is not very defined. It can be translated 'and [is doing]' as above.
General background When anttendant circumstance has codes a progressive event, this converb rather codes static states.
Purposive 'in order to'
instrumental 'by doing'
Similative 'as'
...

I think there doesn't have to be special converbs for 'bacause' and 'although' because the clitics coding success could have that meaning in converbs.

There could also be anterior converbs 'having done'. They could be related to perfect tense marking.
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Re: Karu 2.0

Post by Omzinesý »

There could be a copula clitic -ja.

It is also used in forming perfect and progressive aspects.

rųju-m-u
eat-ACT.PERFECT.CONV-INDEF.O
'having eaten'

rųju-m-u-ja
eat-ACT.PERFECT.CONV-INDEF.O-COP
'has eaten'


rųju-ng-u
eat-PROG.CONV-INDEF.O
'eating'

rųju-ng-u-ja
eat-PROG.CONV-INDEF.O-cop
'is eating'
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