Grammar milestones
Re: Grammar milestones
I've wanted to write a grammar for Kinál for a while but I'm never sure how to do it, like what should be there, in what order, etc.
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Re: Grammar milestones
Is this what you're looking for?Theta wrote:I've wanted to write a grammar for Kinál for a while but I'm never sure how to do it, like what should be there, in what order, etc.
Or depending on how in depth you want to go, Describing Morphosyntax is also a handy for grammar writing.
Re: Grammar milestones
I read that topic but it didn't get much further than phonology. What would you say usually comes directly after that?
Re: Grammar milestones
I've made it to 3 pages. :p
I also have 31 nouns, 9 active forms of indicative verbs, 1 interjection, 1 numeral, and an interrogative marker.
I also have 31 nouns, 9 active forms of indicative verbs, 1 interjection, 1 numeral, and an interrogative marker.
Sin ar Pàrras agus nì sinne mar a thogras sinn. Choisinn sinn e agus ’s urrainn dhuinn ga loisgeadh.
Re: Grammar milestones
This is a fantastic point. I've rewritten my grammars several times based almost entirely on formatting decisions.Ossicone wrote:One of things I most appreciate in a grammar is good formatting.
My longest grammar is pushing 40 pages, but it grows and shrinks as examples come and go and constructions change.
L1 | Learning | :hin: Basic | Salhari
I'm mostly a lurker.
I'm mostly a lurker.
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Re: Grammar milestones
Wrong thread.Theta wrote:My most active conlang, Kinal, has about 200 words.
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Grammar milestones
Today I added some studd on poetry to my Kankonian grammar, including two poems. After I uploaded the revisions, I pasted the text of my webpage into Corel WordPerfect, and it comes out to 100 pages.
My grammar has reached the 100-page milestone!
Now is as good a time as any to look at it:
http://khemehekis.angelfire.com/basic.htm
The only other thing that comes to mind is the number of words it takes to write the grammar.
My grammar has reached the 100-page milestone!
Now is as good a time as any to look at it:
http://khemehekis.angelfire.com/basic.htm
What would you propose as a quantitative measure of completeness?Aszev wrote:The amount of pages itself is quite uninteresting, imo.
The only other thing that comes to mind is the number of words it takes to write the grammar.
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Re: Grammar milestones
Congratulation!Khemehekis wrote:Today I added some studd on poetry to my Kankonian grammar, including two poems. After I uploaded the revisions, I pasted the text of my webpage into Corel WordPerfect, and it comes out to 100 pages.
My grammar has reached the 100-page milestone!
I especially like the second poem, even if I wouldn't like to catch owls.Khemehekis wrote: Now is as good a time as any to look at it:
http://khemehekis.angelfire.com/basic.htm
I wouldn't like to catch owls looking stern.
The barn owl reminds me on an owl in my first grade textbook.
And owl is ''urmi'' in my conlang.
The barn owl reminds me on an owl in my first grade textbook.
I wouldn't like to catch owls looking stern.
I especially like the second poem, even if I wouldn't like to catch owls.
The number of grammatical features covered?Khemehekis wrote:What would you propose as a quantitative measure of completeness?Aszev wrote:The amount of pages itself is quite uninteresting, imo.
The only other thing that comes to mind is the number of words it takes to write the grammar.
My neurochemistry has fucked my impulse control, now I'm diagnosed OOD = oppositional opinion disorder, one of the most deadly diseases in totalitarian states, but can be cured in the free world.
Re: Grammar milestones
Set the font bigger than 6 points, go more into detail, present and explain irregularities, present some history of your language (both the real-world evolution and the in-world development)... There are endless possibilities.Ahzoh wrote:How the fuck do people write grammars longer than 5 pages?
I can barely make one!
Languages of Rodentèrra: Buonavallese, Saselvan Argemontese; Wīlandisċ Taulkeisch; More on the road.
Conlang embryo of TELES: Proto-Avesto-Umbric ~> Proto-Umbric
New blog: http://argentiusbonavalensis.tumblr.com
Conlang embryo of TELES: Proto-Avesto-Umbric ~> Proto-Umbric
New blog: http://argentiusbonavalensis.tumblr.com
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Re: Grammar milestones
Modern Azen hit 50 words! The fiftieth word was kel (lake), derived from Old Azen kṓl (lake, sea).
Re: Grammar milestones
Jesus christ I have been on this forum since fucking 2011. I was a goddamn sophmore back then!Chagen wrote:Jesus, how big was that font? A page to a letter?
Wow, time flies. Goddamn does time fly.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
Re: Grammar milestones
Oh god, I don't even have grammar in my text*
Okay, so I do, but only for present tense- transitive+intransitive
It's basically english in Present, Spanish in other forms, and much other stuffing.
Ughhhh
Okay, so I do, but only for present tense- transitive+intransitive
It's basically english in Present, Spanish in other forms, and much other stuffing.
Ughhhh
Spoiler:
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Re: Grammar milestones
Thanks!Tanni wrote: Congratulation!
Ooh, you did a palindroem yourself!Tanni wrote: I especially like the second poem, even if I wouldn't like to catch owls.
I wouldn't like to catch owls looking stern.
The barn owl reminds me on an owl in my first grade textbook.
And owl is ''urmi'' in my conlang.
The barn owl reminds me on an owl in my first grade textbook.
I wouldn't like to catch owls looking stern.
I especially like the second poem, even if I wouldn't like to catch owls.
So you remember that owl way back erom the first grade? I remember my first grade spelling book was pink, with a chick on the cover. Our teacher called it the "pink chick book".
Come to think of it, my grade four spelling book had an owl on the cover. (It was light blue.)
That might be workable, except how would you count features in this segment of my Kankonian grammar?Tanni wrote:The number of grammatical features covered?Khemehekis wrote:What would you propose as a quantitative measure of completeness?Aszev wrote:The amount of pages itself is quite uninteresting, imo.
The only other thing that comes to mind is the number of words it takes to write the grammar.
Is that one feature or four features?The excerptal is used for body parts a person has more than one of when they appear with a possessive:
Fas aas e bwolwut na is.
There is something in my eye.
Amerina khafarkhen dumat na wan.
Amerina scratched her thumb.
The singular rather than the excerptal is used when which one of your eyes, legs, feet, etc. you are talking about is specified:
Is apsithien pumus utshi na is.
I raised my left hand.
Nor is the excerptal used when there is no possessive:
Ar wahazas umbe ufoyan zeksisites oba eueras hekhio!
Now you can change channels without moving a finger!
When an adjective describes both/all of the nouns referred to by an excerptal, the adjective comes after the excerptal noun. When the adjective describes only the one of the nouns referred to by the excerptal, it comes before the noun. So, "one of my blue eyes" would be "bwolwut wowum" (both of the speaker's eyes being blue), but if the speaker had heterochromia iridum and wanted to say "the blue one of my eyes", he would say "wowum bwolwut".
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
- eldin raigmore
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Re: Grammar milestones
Our usual measure (for completeness of the grammar) is;Khemehekis wrote:What would you propose as a quantitative measure of completeness?
How many of Rossman and Mills's "Graded Sentences for Analysis" can a user of your grammar gloss into your conlang by means of your grammar?
Edit: (And a different user re-gloss back into their own native language -- or English -- by means of your grammar.)
That's 1200 sentences total; but conlangers usually use an 800-sentence subset.See:
http://www.potterpcs.net/gsfa/
http://www.arthaey.com/conlang/lhenazi/ ... /gsfa.html
http://archives.conlang.info/kau/guawae ... qhuen.html and ff
http://www.worldcat.org/title/graded-se ... c/17701851
http://www.amazon.com/Graded-sentences- ... B0008AULJC
If your grammar explains how to translate the 800-sentence subset, we'd say it's complete.
I don't think that anyone has proposed a measure for completeness of the vocabulary/lexicon.
I don't think anyone thinks they have a chance of coming close.
Your grammar should contain the "instructions" for coining new words and incorporating loanwords into your language.
(For instance, some loanwords have stress-patterns unnatural to your language; or have forbidden phoneme-clusters; or present problems when a speaker tries to inflect them using the native morphology. This is usually solved somehow. Most languages have a fairly Procrustean approach; English comes closer to just borrowing the word (nearly) unchanged.)
I'd say once you have the first 30,000-50,000 morphemes (or words?), you've probably got as far as anyone ever has.
Even auxlangs like Lojban and B.A.S.I.C. English have more on the order of 800 to 1200, IIRC.
You ought to be able to carry on most quotidian conversations with the first 3,000-5,000; some conlangs do come close (probably some exceed that and I just haven't heard about it yet).
Once you pass 100,000 you've probably got more than the average speaker can remember.
Past 225,000 you've got more than some so-called "Unabridged Dictionaries of the English Language".
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 04 Dec 2014 08:26, edited 1 time in total.
My minicity is http://gonabebig1day.myminicity.com/xml
Re: Grammar milestones
I shall accept this challenge!eldin raigmore wrote:Our usual measure (for completeness of the grammar) is;Khemehekis wrote:What would you propose as a quantitative measure of completeness?
How many of Rossman and Mills's "Graded Sentences for Analysis" can a user of your grammar gloss into your conlang by means of your grammar?
That's 1200 sentences total; but conlangers usually use an 800-sentence subset.
See:
http://www.potterpcs.net/gsfa/
http://www.arthaey.com/conlang/lhenazi/ ... /gsfa.html
http://archives.conlang.info/kau/guawae ... qhuen.html and ff
http://www.worldcat.org/title/graded-se ... c/17701851
http://www.amazon.com/Graded-sentences- ... B0008AULJC
If your grammar explains how to translate the 800-sentence subset, we'd say it's complete.
I don't think that anyone has proposed a measure for completeness of the vocabulary/lexicon.
I don't think anyone thinks they have a chance of coming close.
Your grammar should contain the "instructions" for coining new words and incorporating loanwords into your language.
(For instance, some loanwords have stress-patterns unnatural to your language; or have forbidden phoneme-clusters; or present problems when a speaker tries to inflect them using the native morphology. This is usually solved somehow. Most languages have a fairly Procrustean approach; English comes closer to just borrowing the word (nearly) unchanged.)
I'd say once you have the first 30,000-50,000 morphemes (or words?), you've probably got as far as anyone ever has.
Even auxlangs like Lojban and B.A.S.I.C. English have more on the order of 800 to 1200, IIRC.
You ought to be able to carry on most quotidian conversations with the first 3,000-5,000; some conlangs do come close (probably some exceed that and I just haven't heard about it yet).
Once you pass 100,000 you've probably got more than the average speaker can remember.
Past 225,000 you've got more than some so-called "Unabridged Dictionaries of the English Language".
- eldin raigmore
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Re: Grammar milestones
Which one? Translating the 800 or 1200 sentences of GSfA?*Ahzoh wrote:I shall accept this challenge!
(*"Graded Sentences for Analysis")
My minicity is http://gonabebig1day.myminicity.com/xml
Re: Grammar milestones
That and the vocabulary/lexicon numbers.eldin raigmore wrote:Which one? Translating the 800 or 1200 sentences of GSfA?*Ahzoh wrote:I shall accept this challenge!
(*"Graded Sentences for Analysis")
- DesEsseintes
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Re: Grammar milestones
That list is pretty awesome.Ahzoh wrote:That and the vocabulary/lexicon numbers.eldin raigmore wrote:Which one? Translating the 800 or 1200 sentences of GSfA?*Ahzoh wrote:I shall accept this challenge!
(*"Graded Sentences for Analysis")
Hmm, should there be a thread? Ahzoh, what do you think?