Omzinian Scrap thread

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Omzinesý
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote: 24 May 2021 02:02 Ideas for a lang where I wanna avoid SAEisms

- nouns and monovalent verbs are one class (generic/verby vs. non-generic/nouny marked with article)
- bivalent verbs mark voice (direct, inverse, reflexive)
- no tense but realis but irrealis moods
- bunch of aspectual clitics that are semantically 'optional'
- head marking

- many stop-fricative clusters like /kf/
- pitch accent (Every word (by definition) has a domain of high-tone syllables. aááa is allowed but áaaá is not. A glottal stop may appear as a suprasegmental feature on the right edge of the high-tone doman.

i ɯ u
ɛ ʌ ɔ
Back-vowels have a harmony where only rounded or unrounded ones appear in one word (or maybe some sequence in a word).
Vowels can be short or long (phonemically two vowels). Rising diphthongs ɛi, ɔu, ʌɯ also appear.



(1) p t k q
(2) f θ s ɬ x χ
(3) ʋ ð̞ l ɣ̞ ʁ
(4) m n ŋ ɴ
(5) ʋ̃ ð̞̃ l̃ ɣ̞̃ ʁ̃
Nasal approximants nasalize the following vowel, which is the main phonetic feature to recognize them.
Allowed clusters are (1)(2), (1)(3), (4)(5).
monovanlent words

(1) 'The boy is running.'
pógó tsitéa
pógo-´ tsitéa-`
run(er)-PREDICATE (is_)boy-PARTICIPANT

(2) 'The one running is a boy.'
tsitéá pógo
tsítéa-´ pógo-`
run(er)-PARTICIPANT (is_)boy-PREDICATE

They must be able to work as modifiers of participants ('N who is a boy,' and 'N related to the boy'/'N of the boy'), too. That has some other (tonal?) change. If all those distinctions are marked suprasegmentally, there must be some other means than just pitch accent. Maybe I could go a bit towards Semitic vowel alternations, but not too much.
There are aspect markers and modality/polarity markers. Aspect markers can well be clitics appearing in the end of the first word, but modality/polarity markers could be more "verby". Maybe they always appear in the end of the predicate.

-------------------------

Suprasegmental features
There are four suprasegmental features. They are mostly inflectional/derivational, but the first low-pitch domain is often lexically determined.

1) High-pitch domain
2) Glottalization
3) Nasalization
4) Vowel reduction

1) High-pitch domain

This lang can be described as a pitch-accent system.
There are two levels of pitch: high <á> and low <a> or <à>. Every vowel has one.
The high-pitch vowels appear in a domain that can be one or more segments long. There can be low-pitch domains in the beginning and in the end of the word. So the word stucture od domains is: (low-pitch domain) high-pitch domain (low-pitch domain).Every pitch domain can be one or more vowels long. Especially, predicates are long in this language, so the domains are often long too.
tsitéá has a low pitch-domain on tsi and a high-pitch domain on téá.
tsítéa has a low pitch-domain on tsi, a high-pitch domain on , and a low-pitch domain on a.

2) Glottalization

Glottalization is surely the easiest of the suprasegmental features. It is a binary feature of every word. There can be a glottal stop in the end of the high-pitch domain. Glottalization is marked with the circumflex on the last vowel of the high-pitch domain, <â>.
mógûpla

3) Nasalization

Every domain is either nasal or oral. Nasalization is not as limited as pitches. A three-domain word can have any of the eight combinations of nasalization: OOO; OON, ONO, NOO; ONN, NON, NNO; NNN. Non-nasal domains are far more frequent, though. I'm not sure how to mark nasalization. The easiest way could be just <n> in the end of a nasal domain.

4) Vowel reduction

This is the suprasegmental feature I have though least about. The basic vowel phoneme inventory is:
i ɯ u
ɛ ʌ ɔ (probably near-low rather than mid-low)

All vowels can be reduced to the corresponding mid vowel: e̞, ɤ̞, o̞. That is, vowel height is reduced (or according to an alternative analyses, a third height added). It could be that vowel reduction can only appear in low-pitch domains. Reduction could thus be marked with gravis and no accent. It remains to be seen if reduced or non-reduced vowel is the more frequent one and thus left without gravis.

5) Vowel rounding harmony

Vowel rounding harmony can be seen as the fifth suprasegmental feature, but it is not based on the domains. A word cannot have both rounded and unrounded back-vowels.

How to call the domains?
pre-stress domain, stress-domain, post-stress domain (It is not a stress accent but stress is a handy word)?
pre-peak domain, peak-domain, post-peak domain (domains are more than just high pitch though)?
first low-pitch domain, high-pitch domain, second low-pitch domain (even more emphasizes pitch)?
first domain, second domain, third domain (all words don't have three domains, and thus second domain can be first, which is messy)?
Ideas?
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Creyeditor »

Wow, that looks really cool. This is really an innovative and original of supresegmental conlanging.

I like peak-domain best amongst your proposals, since pitch is not the only feature that can have a peak. Another idea I head was head-domain, because you could think of this as the main domain in the word. After all it is the only domain that is strictly necessary. Other ideas:
  • onset domain, nuclear domain and coda domain (analogous to syllables)
  • left domain, centre domain, right domain (boring but correct)
  • pre-accent domain, accent domain, post-accent domain
  • initial domain, medial domain, final domain (again boring)
  • weak domain, strong domain, appendix (based on some syllable/stress theories)
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Creyeditor wrote: 31 May 2021 22:37 Wow, that looks really cool. This is really an innovative and original of supresegmental conlanging.

I like peak-domain best amongst your proposals, since pitch is not the only feature that can have a peak. Another idea I head was head-domain, because you could think of this as the main domain in the word. After all it is the only domain that is strictly necessary. Other ideas:
  • onset domain, nuclear domain and coda domain (analogous to syllables)
  • left domain, centre domain, right domain (boring but correct)
  • pre-accent domain, accent domain, post-accent domain
  • initial domain, medial domain, final domain (again boring)
  • weak domain, strong domain, appendix (based on some syllable/stress theories)
Peak is probably best of what I proposed.
Of your proposals ,I also like accent domain. Accent is vague enough.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

More systematically presenting the suprasegmentals above

Code: Select all

		Spreads to	In peak		In non-peak	  
		the whole 	domain only	domain only	
		domain 						
High pitch	YES		YES 		NO
Low pitch	YES		NO		YES
Nasalization 	YES	 	NO		NO
Glottal stop  	NO		?*		NO
Vowel reduction NO		NO		YES
Vowel harmony	-		NO		NO

*The glottal stop is a possible border-line effect between the peak domain and the post-peak domain. 
Vowel harmony affects words, not just domain.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Creyeditor »

Vowel harmony should probably be YES*, for "spreads to the whole domain". It does spread through the domain and it goes on beyond it.

Also the glottal step could have YES* for "in peak domain only". It can only occur at the end of the peak domain after all.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Theoretically, I agree with you, but I think one gets a better intuition out of the table if I don't give glottal stop and vowel harmony a value in a category that does not specify them well.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread - Project something Phonology

Post by Omzinesý »

(C)V(V)

p t k ʔ
m n
m' n'
s h
ɾ ɟ (intervocally only)
j w
j' w'

<p t k '>
<m n>
<m̂ n̂>
<r j>
<z h>
<y w>
<ŷ ŵ>



Some kind of a consonant gradation:
Strong - Weak
p - w
t - r
k - ɟ ~ w
ʔ - h
s - h
m' - m
n' - n
j' - j
w' - w


Basic 5-vowel system

Short
i u
e o
a

Long
ii uu
ei eu oi ou
ee oo
ai au
ae ao
aa
Last edited by Omzinesý on 20 Jun 2021 11:27, edited 1 time in total.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread - Project something Syntax

Post by Omzinesý »

The transitive construction

V Abs Erg

U soke i paju k-a hetaika
PERFVE kill INDEF cat ERG-DEF hunter
'The hunter killed a cat.'

Antipassive is formed by incorporating "noi" thing.

U soke-noi a hetekai
PERFVE kill-ANTIP DEF hunter
'The hunter killed.'

A passive/anticausative is just the clause without the ergative argument.

U soke i paju.
PERFVE kill INDEF cat
'The cat was killed/died.'

Other constructions:
V Abs Argument

Noosa a hetekai t-i paju
love DEF hunter about-INDEF cat
'The hunter loves the cat.'
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread - Project something Word classes

Post by Omzinesý »

Nouns

No obligatory morphology.
Three articles: i 'indefinite', a 'definite', o 'proper noun', u 'definite because of another noun, usually possessed' Generic nouns probably without article.

a paju 'the cat'
i paju 'the cat'
o paju 'Cat'
u paju 'her cat'

This is a good lang for testing Manchu sound symbolism of gender. Words referring to males often have o and u, while words referring to females often have e and i. a is neutral.

'osu 'father' - 'esi 'mother'
maomao 'boy' - maemae 'girl'


Adjectives

A closed class. Appear before their head noun. Cannot appear as predicatives.

i kii paju 'a small cat'

Statives

Have a predicate form (usually a long vowel) and a relative form (usually a short vowel).
When modifyers of nouns, precede their head.

noosa i hetekai 'a hunter is in love'
i hetekai nosa 'a hunter is in love'

Verbs

Adpositions
Last edited by Omzinesý on 21 Jun 2021 02:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Titus Flavius »

(1) 'The boy is running.'
pógó tsitéa
pógo-´ tsitéa-`
run(er)-PREDICATE (is_)boy-PARTICIPANT

(2) 'The one running is a boy.'
tsitéá pógo
tsítéa-´ pógo-`
run(er)-PARTICIPANT (is_)boy-PREDICATE
I haven't seen it before cause I hadn't much time for browsing cbb, but it's very similar to my idea from a month ago! In that my conlang I simply treated nouns as monovalent verbs, as in it.
It's funny that two unrelated conlangs created at the same time can have such similar or identical constructions.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Titus Flavius wrote: 20 Jun 2021 13:03
(1) 'The boy is running.'
pógó tsitéa
pógo-´ tsitéa-`
run(er)-PREDICATE (is_)boy-PARTICIPANT

(2) 'The one running is a boy.'
tsitéá pógo
tsítéa-´ pógo-`
run(er)-PARTICIPANT (is_)boy-PREDICATE
I haven't seen it before cause I hadn't much time for browsing cbb, but it's very similar to my idea from a month ago! In that my conlang I simply treated nouns as monovalent verbs, as in it.
It's funny that two unrelated conlangs created at the same time can have such similar or identical constructions.
Somebody on the ZBB seemed to think about these questions as well.
A named my lang Kfadipqh and it has its own thread in conlangs section.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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