Omzinian Scrap thread

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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread - Chirdau

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p t t͡ɕ* k <p t c c/ch>
f s ɕ* x <f s x x/xh>
m n <m n>
l <l> r <r>
j u** <j u>

* Palatals /ɕ t͡ɕ/ can only appear before front vowels i, ɪ, e.
** The status of /w/ is questionable. It is easier to analyse diphthongs as sequences of V+j or V+w, but /w/ does not appear in other positions.

All syllables:
u <u>
ɪ <i>
e o <e o>
a <a>

(C1)C2V(C3)

C1 Any consonant
C2 r or l and only if they are preceded by an obstruent
C3 any resonant

Stops are voiced intervocallically. Stops can also appear as (voiceless) geminates. I still analyse that a quantity distinction rather than a qualitative distinction.

Only open syllables:
i <ij>
ei eu oi ou <ej eu oj ou>
ai au <aj au>
(They can be seen as V+glide too.)



Nouns
Nominative: -Ø or -e
Indefinite Accusative -o
Definite Accusative -u
Possessed -a
Maybe a generic forma as well.

Some nouns are inherently locative "chep-u" 'in the hole' -> "chep-al-u" 'the hole ACC'

Verbs
There are four genders that verbs agree. Masculine (male people and animals), Feminine (female people and animals), Neuter1 and Neuter2 for inanimate nouns.

Infiniteve does not have gender/number/genericness agreement.
Imperfective verbs have the agreement markers as prefixes, while perfective verbs have them as infixes.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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I've been watching a Icelandic TV series. My second conlang will have many dental spirants in coda. Đr is a nice cluster.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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I've been playing with Archi-type verb paradigms

There are four noun classes: Masculine, Feminine, NeuterI, and NeuterII. Verbs agree them.

Perfective verbs have agreement prefixes. Imperfective verbs have agreement suffixes.

ren 'to come'

cren 'she/he came'
tren 'it came'
pren 'it came'

renghe 'he is coming'
renge 'she is coming'
rende 'it is coming'
renbe 'it is coming'

Some verbs can be transitivized by adding an animate ergative prefix.

scren 'he brought him/her'
stren 'he brought it'
spren 'he brought it'

fcren 'she brought him/her'
ftren 'she brought it'
fpren 'she brought it'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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My newest ideas of a lang

- ergativity
- alternation between complete object (absolutive) and partial object (partitive)
- many light verbs which leads to ditransitive constructions

I-ERG made renovation-PART house-DAT
'I renovated the house (but not the whole house).'

I-ERG made renovation-ABS house-DAT
'I renovated the (whole) house.'

- There is also verbal aspectual marking. It mostly refers to time (single event, continuation) while the object alternation refers to results.
- Partitive appears in the absolutive function and thus appears as an intransitive subject.

boy.PL-ABS walk.IMPERF
'The boys were walking.'

boy.PL-PART walk.IMPERF
'Some boys were walking.'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Newest idea
- the phoneme inventory below
- light verb + coverb predicates, could also have Greenlandic-style very productive verb derivation/ incorporation
- maybe partitive objects
- VSO, information structure not couded in the most frequent clausal constructions
- semitic-style morphology
Omzinesý wrote: 16 Jun 2022 15:43 Something that got inspiration from Berber.

p t ts k q
f s r̥ h
v z r l j ɣ~ʁ
m n

i u
ə
æ ɑ

There is a vowel harmony between æ and ɑ. They cannot appear in one word.

r̥ is my new favorite sound.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

A quick project

Morphology
Nouns
Some genders that also code plural /collective
Three cases: Absolutive, Ergative, Oblique/Accusative



The patterns of bisyllabic nouns:

Code: Select all

SG.Def      R-L
SG.Indef    S-L
Generic     S-S 
PL.DEF      L-R
PL.INDEF    L-S

Code: Select all

SG.Def      R-S
SG.Indef    L-S
Generic     L-L 
PL.DEF      S-R
PL.INDEF    S-L


----
Syntax

A language has three open-ish word classes: nouns, verbs, and statives. Beside "adjectives", all predicates that are usually static are expressed by statives (to love, to sit ...).

Both verbs and statives have distinct predicative and relative forms. Statives form them suprasegmentally with vowel lengths.

barii 'N loves'
baari 'N that loves'

Verbs have a relative suffix.

koheena 'N sings'
koheenaca 'N that sings'

Verbs use vowel lengths to code TAM distinctions that either absent or periphrastically coded in statives.

Verbs can crossreference both the subject and the object. Statives agree obly the subject although the verb would be bivalent (to love).

----
Phonology

long - short - reduced
i: - i - ɪ
ie - je: - ɪ
u: - u - ʊ
uo - wo - ʊ
e: - e - ɪ
o: - o - ʊ
ɑ: - ɑ - ʌ

Phonotactics is veru simple CV, but word-final reduced vowels elide if the preceding syllable does not have a long vowel, creating CVC syllables.

Vowel length is a morphological, not lexical, phenomenon, so, DEFINITE PLURAL could be long.short.long, for example.

And the newest version of its consonant inventory
t (c͡ç) k ʔ <t (tj kj) k '>
b~ʙ ɾ (ɟ) <b r (j)>
ɸ~ʍ s (ɕ ç) h <f s (sj hj) h>
m n (ɲ) <m n (nj)>
β~w j <w y>

[b word-initially
[ʙ] inter-vocally
/ɾ/ and /ɟ/ appear appear only inter-vocally
[ʍ] and [w] appear before rounded vowels. Before other vowels both labio-velar and bilabial allophones are allowed.

Phonetic palatalization before /i/ and /ie/. Because of apocope of reduced vowels, palatalization is somewhat phonemic. The contrast is phonemic also fefore /ɪ/s that are reduced from /e/ vs. /i/ and /ie/.

t -> c͡ç
k -> c͡ç
ɾ -> ɟ
s -> ɕ
h -> ç
n -> ɲ






It makes 33 - 5 = 22 combinations of vowel quantities

Long and short
Short - long - long
Long - short - long
Long - long - short
Long - short - short
Short - long - short
Short - short - long

Long and reduced
Reduced - long - long
Long - Reduced - long
Long - long - Reduced
Long - Reduced - Reduced
Reduced - long - Reduced
Reduced - Reduced - long

Short and reduced
Short - short - reduced
Short - reduced - short
Reduced- short - short
Reduced - reduced- short
Reduced- short - reduced
Short - reduced - reduced

Long - long - long
Short - short - short
Reduced - reduced - reduced

Reduced - short - long
Reduced - long - short
Short - reduced - long
Short - long - reduced
Long - short - reduced
Long - reduced - short
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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A new project again

Word classes: nouns, verbs, statives (stricly lexically determined)
Left-branching

Most common postpositions: n 'genitive, object of statives', l 'locative (at, to)'

Soh vos mu.
bear elk eat
'The bear ate an elk.'

Soh vos n kø.
bear elk POST love
'The bear loves elk.'

Soh n vos jy.
bear POST elk be.big
'The bear's elk was a big one.'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread - Random Ideas for an IE Lang

Post by Omzinesý »

It would be spoken somewhere near Kirghizia.
It constitutes a branch in IE.

- Satem, I think
- "Aspirated voiced" stops merge with "plain voiced" stops, as in many other branches.
- V7 vowels, like those of Standard Italian, maybe.
- Final stress
- All syllables are open but, in onset, obstruent + resonant clusters are allowed.
- In unstressed syllables the vowel can be reduced following a cluster above.
- nasal + stop develop a glottalized nasal.
- I'm considering what to do with s-mobile.

- The old person/voice markers are preserved -mi 'sg1 active', -me 'sg1 medio-passive' etc.
- two cases: a nominative and on oblique (genitive, locative, instrument ... functions)
- two numbers
- genders are preserved (?)
- an Altaic-style agglutinative tense/aspect/mood system

- Typical Eurasian syntax: SOV with nonfinite subordination.

Preliminary sound changes
All PIE short 'vowels' *e, *o, *a merger becoming /e/ in Modern Bedriki.
PIE long vowels *e:, *o:, *a: don't merger and are /ie/, /u/, /a/ in Modern Bedriki.
PIE short *i and long *i: merger becoming MB /i/.
PIE short *u lowers to MB /u/.

The vowel system of old primary vowels is as simple as:
i u
ie
e o
a

Old short closing diphthongs become *eu and *ei after the merger of short vowels.
Their number was increased by contraction of coda consonants k. => j/w, p => w
aj => e:, aw => o:
ej => i:, eu => ø:
oi => ɨ:

PIE *s is nowhere preserved as s.
- Word-initially it disappears.
*sester => e:ra:
-before RUKI consonants it becomes *ʃ (later changed)
-inter-vocally s it is voiced and *z later merges with *r becoming /r/.
- Inter-vocally, *ʃ is voiced to [ʒ].
-Between a vowel and a consonant (V_C), it disappears lengthening the preceding vowel. The distinction of RUKI *s and *ʃ is visible because *ʃ affects the vowel like *j while *s just lengthens it.
Its descendants are just [r] and [ʒ].

PIE *g'/*gh' and *k' become s and z in MB.
MB ʃ is gotten from *k'j -> sj -> ʃ.
MB ʒ is gotten from *g'j/gh'j => zj => ʒ


1. Satemization
k' -> ts
g' -> dz
g'h -> dzh
2. 'Voiced aspirated' stops merger with 'voiced plain stops'.
3. Voiceless stops become fricatives, much like in Germanic, but not when preceded by a consonant.
p -> f
t->IDK
ts -> s
k->x
4. Resonant + stop -> glottalized resonant
5. Consonants preceding other consonants are elided, possibly affecting vowels. That also returns the voicing contrast of stops.
*sta -> ta 'stand'
*da -> da 'give'


Vowels could be just:

y i u
ø e o
ä

IE o-declension
-e 'indefinite', -ø 'definite'

IE ā-declension
-a 'indefinite', -o 'definite'

IE i-declension
-i 'indefinite', -y 'definite'

The oblique case could be coded with vowel lengthening.

IE -ke is used for three functions in Bedriki
1) It is the plural marker. Then it does not bear stress.
zna 'a woman', znáke 'women'
znaa 'to a woman', znákee 'to women'
2) It means 'and'. Then it is attached to the oblique form. It does not bear a stress.
zná:ke 'a woman and ...', zná:ke: 'to a woman and ...'
3) It is a polar question marker. Then it does bear stress.
znaké 'a woman ?', zna:ké 'to a woman?'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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Adjectives have two forms, a predicate form and modifier form. They are usually formed with ablaut.
task 'beautiful'
taosk 'is beatiful'

Static "verbs" are adjectives as well
kyff 'loving'
køff 'loves'

Predicative adjectives differ from verbs. Verbs inflect for person TAM etc.
Verbs have two aspects, habitual and non-habitual. The non-habitual is the unmarked form. The habitual is basically a participle.
pask 'beats'
paskan 'beating usually'
paskaon 'beats usually'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Some verb morphology

SG1 -t

lakk-t -> laht
lak-t -> laht
lák-t -> láht

lat-t -> latt
lát -> látt
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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A preliminary system of the verb stems

There is an ablaut á la German sterben 'to die' stirbt 'dies'.

fim 'flies'
- all Indicative forms are based on this stem: fimt 'I fly'
fem(e) 'to flie'
- havitual participles are based on this stem: fimoun 'who usually flies', fimon 'flies usually'
- Imperative is based on this stem: fimi 'fly!'
feim
- Irrealis moods are based on this stem
feimy 'I think X flies'
feimis 'X would fly'

The lowering of high vowels in Infinitive is based on an a-umlaut style assimilation.
The diphthong is based on what?
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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I seem to make many different auxlanga that are very alike. So I don't start a new thread for this one.

Three open-ish word classes

Verbs
- monosyllabic
- perfective and imperfective aspects
- nominalizations
-- nu 'action nominalization' (tonu 'doing')
-- nu 'result nominalization' (tunu 'result, what was done')
-- ya 'artor'

Abstract nouns/adjectives
- bisyllabic
- can head NPs
- can modify NPs
- can be predicates but not have direct objects

Concrete nouns
- bisyllabic
- can head NPs
- can modify nouns (as genitives without a marker)
- cannot be predicates without a copula

The border between abstract and concrete nouns is fluid. It's abaut how they form predicates.

siki 'skill, good (at)/skillful'

Mi siki i bola-futu
SG1 good at football
'I am good at football.'

Bola-futu ka siki.
football COP skill
'Football is a skill.'

Generally conversion does not happen.

peli '(be) beautiful'
pasa peli 'a beautiful person, a beauty'



tiku-tonu-tesi
tiku-to-nu-tesi
stick-make-NMLZ-text
'pen' i.e. 'a stick of making of text'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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Associated motion is the newest category I've found. I don't fully understand the category but my second lang could have a simple system with two forms:

N came and Ved
N Ved and left.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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I've been thinking about a conlang with CV(CV)n(C) syllable structure.
The syllable structure causes some problems to morphology because you cannot combine a CVC morpheme with a CVC morpheme.

Nouns are usually CVC. Verbs are usually CV. They are easily combined

CV-CVC

pu 'to use'
sebp 'kettle'

Kepúsébp 'I used a kettle.'

Adjectives are verbs in the lang.
When verbs modify a noun, they don't have a high tone on the last syllable. When they are predicates, they do.

siilj 'beautiful'
síílj 'is beautiful'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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A lang where all/most nouns are formed as deverbal nominalizations
There are "articles"

De 'one who Vs'
Ku 'one who is Ved'
No 'where it is Ved'
Ma 'the act of Ving'

If the nominalized clause has arguments, they come between the article and the verb.

futs 'to be pig'
Humaa 'to slaughter'
vi- 'impersonal'

ma de futs vihumaa 'slaughter house' lit. 'where they slaughter pigs'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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Ideas for a new project

Its preliminary name is Smijgá [smi'ɣa].

This phonology http://cbbforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=320844#p320844
Some ideas from Chirdau viewtopic.php?t=7705 are recycled.

The lang has a complex morphology, conjugations inspired by Slavic and declensions inspired by Romance.

- suffix articles
- an essive case (the complement of copula)
- three synthetic tense-aspects ála PIE
- static verbs are formed with copula (to be seated instead of to sit)
- transitive verbs without an explicit object are assumed to have an anaphoric object. - an antipassive voice for transitive verbs with 'something' as the object
- My langs very rarely have a class of adjectives, but this lang does.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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Omzinesý wrote: 29 Mar 2023 02:39 Ideas for a new project

Its preliminary name is Smijgá [smi'ɣa].

This phonology http://cbbforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=320844#p320844
Some ideas from Chirdau viewtopic.php?t=7705 are recycled.

The lang has a complex morphology, conjugations inspired by Slavic and declensions inspired by Romance.

- suffix articles
- an essive case (the complement of copula)
- three synthetic tense-aspects ála PIE
- static verbs are formed with copula (to be seated instead of to sit)
- transitive verbs without an explicit object are assumed to have an anaphoric object. - an antipassive voice for transitive verbs with 'something' as the object
- My langs very rarely have a class of adjectives, but this lang does.
Noun cases could be

1. Nominative
2. Accusative-Dative for animates, and Locative for inanimates (imitating Spanish (rather general Romance) preposition a)
3. Ablative-genitive (Spanish de)
4. Essive (my favorite used with verbs like 'to be', 'to become' 'to make', in subordinate clauses 'to be' is omitted)
5. Associative, maybe with instrumental function too (basically means 'and')

If a word has 5 cases, 2 numbers, 2 definitenesses it has 20 endings per declension/gender


s- and -x-declension

indefinite noun ends in -s or -x
The definite noun ends in -z or -g respectively


-e declension

The indefinite noun ends in zero or -e
-e if the stress lies on the last syllable of the stem (ultimate stress is forbidden)
-e if the stem ends in a plosive (words ending in a plosive are forbidden)
In other instances, the -e can be present or absent.

The sg.def.nom form of the -e declension is -a.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Consonant gradations for a still unnamed lang

Roots usually end in the alternating consonant.

strong grade - weak grade -

1 ʰp ʰt ʰt͡s ʰt͡ʃ ʰk - p t t͡s t͡ʃ k <hp ht hc hç hk - p t c ç k>
2 f s ʃ - v z ʒ ɣ <f s ş - z s z̹>
3 m̥ n̥ ŋ̥ - m n ŋ <mh nh ngh - m n ng>
4 ɬ r̥ ç - l r j <lh rh jh - l r j>

Outside gradations: ð ɣ <d g>

{3, 4} + {1, 2} is a common clsuter. In them the first part alternates, <mp - mhp>, though one can also analyze that the preaspiration spreads on the following resonant.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

An idea for a Romlang in Spain.

It loses *f. Apparently some Spanish dialects do that completely.
Then it has the sound change θ -> f, which is apparently happening in English.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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Sounds very sensible to me.
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