Omzinian Scrap thread
Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread Project XIII
My impression is Iranian though I'm not sure if there is anything Iranian in this language.
p t k q
ts tʃ
s ʃ x~ɣ h
z ʒ
ʋ l r j
n m
i ɨ u <i y u>
e (ə) o <e ë o>
a <a>
Vowels have long and centralizing variants
i: ɨ: u:
e: o:
a: ɒ:
iə ɨə uə
eə oə
aə ɒə
p t k q
ts tʃ
s ʃ x~ɣ h
z ʒ
ʋ l r j
n m
i ɨ u <i y u>
e (ə) o <e ë o>
a <a>
Vowels have long and centralizing variants
i: ɨ: u:
e: o:
a: ɒ:
iə ɨə uə
eə oə
aə ɒə
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Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread Project XIII
Something about the verb
Active
ş-e-siip 'I bouilt it'
t-e-siip 'you bouilt it'
g-e-siip 'he bouilt it'
ş-e-siip-een 'we excl. bouilt it'
v-e-siip-enn 'we incl. boult it'
t-e-siip-een 'you bouilt it'
g-e-siip-een 'they bouilt i
Antipassive
ş-aa-sip 'I bouilt'
t-aa-sip 'you bouilt'
g-aa-sip 'he bouilt'
ş-aa-sip-een 'we excl. bouilt'
v-aa-siip-enn 'we incl. boult'
t-aa-sip-een 'you bouilt'
g-aa-sip-een 'they bouilt'
Active
ş-e-siip 'I bouilt it'
t-e-siip 'you bouilt it'
g-e-siip 'he bouilt it'
ş-e-siip-een 'we excl. bouilt it'
v-e-siip-enn 'we incl. boult it'
t-e-siip-een 'you bouilt it'
g-e-siip-een 'they bouilt i
Antipassive
ş-aa-sip 'I bouilt'
t-aa-sip 'you bouilt'
g-aa-sip 'he bouilt'
ş-aa-sip-een 'we excl. bouilt'
v-aa-siip-enn 'we incl. boult'
t-aa-sip-een 'you bouilt'
g-aa-sip-een 'they bouilt'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread Project XIV
Ideas coming from Somali phonology.
tʰ ts tʃ kʰ
2. p t k q
m n
s ʃ
4 z ʒ
ʋ l r
Series 1 realise as the glottal stop syllable finally.
Series 2 are voiceless stops word-initially and -finally and when geminated, voiced stops after nasals, and voiced fricatives elsewhere.
Series 4 can be voiceless affricates word-initially.
tʰ ts tʃ kʰ
2. p t k q
m n
s ʃ
4 z ʒ
ʋ l r
Series 1 realise as the glottal stop syllable finally.
Series 2 are voiceless stops word-initially and -finally and when geminated, voiced stops after nasals, and voiced fricatives elsewhere.
Series 4 can be voiceless affricates word-initially.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 28 Sep 2017 19:42, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread
It's "built".
Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread
I see :)MrKrov wrote:It's "built".
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Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread Project XV
Two vowel inventories.
Version 1
[closed syllables][open syllables]
ý [y][æy], í [æi], ú [ou]
y [ʏ][y:], i [ɪ][i:], u [ʊ][u:]
é [∅][ei], ó [∅][ou]
e [e][e:], o [o][o:]
a [æ][æ:], á [ɒ][ɒ:]
Version 2
[closed syllables][open syllables]
í [æi], ú [y][y:]
i [ɪ][i:], u [ʊ][u:]
é [ei], ó [ou]
e [e][e:], o [o][o:]
a [æ][æ:], á [ɒ][ɒ:]
Version 1
[closed syllables][open syllables]
ý [y][æy], í [æi], ú [ou]
y [ʏ][y:], i [ɪ][i:], u [ʊ][u:]
é [∅][ei], ó [∅][ou]
e [e][e:], o [o][o:]
a [æ][æ:], á [ɒ][ɒ:]
Version 2
[closed syllables][open syllables]
í [æi], ú [y][y:]
i [ɪ][i:], u [ʊ][u:]
é [ei], ó [ou]
e [e][e:], o [o][o:]
a [æ][æ:], á [ɒ][ɒ:]
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Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread Project XVI
In the speed-lang challenge, I found the possession construction the most interesting part of my lang. I'll chamge it a bit.
Noun:
Template of Noun: <root> <number> <case> <definiteness/class>
There are three numbers.
-Singular: Ø
-Plural -en
-Paucal: -oqm
Singular always means one. The difference between Plural and Paucal is rather if there is a known number of individuals or is it rather ‘some’.
There are but one semantic case. Let’s call it simply Nominative though it’s closer to the direct case. There are however locational cases.
-Nominative: -Ø
-Inessive: -(y)p ‘in’
-Superessive: -(y)lh ‘on the surface’
-Adessive: -(y)k ‘near’
There is also Equative -(y)p ‘likeX, Xily’
Definiteness has three markers:
-Definite: -a
-Indefinite: -y
-Proper noun: -o
-Abstraction: -e
Formation of the abstract noun is very productive. llep-y ‘a man’ -> llep-e ‘manhood/being a man’
No definiteness/class marker appears in Possession construction (construct state). The possessed appears before the possessor and lacks the definiteness/class marker.
oss llepa ‘the man’s house’
Adjective
Adjectives differ from other nominals in that they take the definiteness/class marker of the whole NP, not one of their own. Now, I start wondering if the suffix is an enclitic, morphologically. Adjectives do not agree their head in number or case either.
llep kep-a ‘the stupid man’
llep kep-y ‘a stupid man’
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread Project XVI
Consonant inventory
p t k k͡p q q͡p
b d g g͡b ɢ ɢ͡b (g g͡b ɢ ɢ͡b only appear word-initially, and thus have a complementary distribution with ɰ w ʁ ʁ͡β)
ʋ ɹ ɰ w ʁ ʁ͡β (This series rarely appears word-initially.)
l r
s ʃ
z ʒ (This series rarely appears word-initially.)
m n
Maybe some allophony appears but I don't know how. Ideas?
Vowels
y i u <y/ý i/í ú>
e o <e u>
æ ɒ <a o>
æi <á>, æy <ay>, ɒu~ou <ó>
ei <é>
p t k k͡p q q͡p
b d g g͡b ɢ ɢ͡b (g g͡b ɢ ɢ͡b only appear word-initially, and thus have a complementary distribution with ɰ w ʁ ʁ͡β)
ʋ ɹ ɰ w ʁ ʁ͡β (This series rarely appears word-initially.)
l r
s ʃ
z ʒ (This series rarely appears word-initially.)
m n
Maybe some allophony appears but I don't know how. Ideas?
Vowels
y i u <y/ý i/í ú>
e o <e u>
æ ɒ <a o>
æi <á>, æy <ay>, ɒu~ou <ó>
ei <é>
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Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread
Verb
Subject pronoun (a clitic) - tense/voice - root - derivational moods - plural marker
A boring tense system:
Present
Past
Prospective
Perfect
Perfect and Prospective can be used beside both Present and Past to express anterior and posterior events, respectively. So they also have
Both Present and Prospective can be used to refer to the future. Prospective has more subjective meaning as a plan while Present expresses a stricter causation, often in the near future.
The same prefixes also express voice (active or antipassive).
Subject pronouns
s- sg1
dr pl1
k- 2
g 3
n zero-person/passive
There are complex rules regarding if the subject pronoun appears or is absent.
Subject pronoun (a clitic) - tense/voice - root - derivational moods - plural marker
A boring tense system:
Present
Past
Prospective
Perfect
Perfect and Prospective can be used beside both Present and Past to express anterior and posterior events, respectively. So they also have
Both Present and Prospective can be used to refer to the future. Prospective has more subjective meaning as a plan while Present expresses a stricter causation, often in the near future.
The same prefixes also express voice (active or antipassive).
Code: Select all
Active Antipassive
Present e á
Past u ó
Prospective i é
Perfect y ý
s- sg1
dr pl1
k- 2
g 3
n zero-person/passive
There are complex rules regarding if the subject pronoun appears or is absent.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread
Sound history
The pre-language had the basic 5-vowel system with the length distinction.
i, i:, u, u:
e, e:, o, o:
a, a:
Sound changes of first (=stressed) syllables
1. Long /a:/ is backed -> /ɒ/
2. and short /a/ is fronted -> /æ/
3. Long /u:/ and short /u/ are fronted -> /y:/, /y/
4. Long /o:/ is raised to /u:/
5. Long /e:/ is diphthongized -> /ei/
6. Long /y:/ is diphthongized -> /yi/
7. Long /i:/ is merged with short /i/ -> /i/
8. /æ/ of open syllables is diphtongized to /æi/ if the following syllable has an unrounded vowel. /æ/ -> /æi/ / _.CV [-rounding]
9. /æ/ of open syllables is diphtongized to /æy/ if the following syllable has a rounded vowel. /æ/ -> /æy/ / _.CV [+rounding]
10. /ɒ/ of open syllables is diphtongized to /ɒu/ if the following syllable has a rounded vowel. /ɒ/ -> /ɒu/ / _.CV [+rounding]
Unstressed vowels are effectively reduced making the conditioned sound changes phonemic.
The vowel system of the language is thus:
y, yi, i, u
ei
e, o
æy, æi, ɒu
æ, ɒ
Written:
y, ý, í, ó
é
e, o
aCu, aCi, áCu
a, á
The pre-language had the basic 5-vowel system with the length distinction.
i, i:, u, u:
e, e:, o, o:
a, a:
Sound changes of first (=stressed) syllables
1. Long /a:/ is backed -> /ɒ/
2. and short /a/ is fronted -> /æ/
3. Long /u:/ and short /u/ are fronted -> /y:/, /y/
4. Long /o:/ is raised to /u:/
5. Long /e:/ is diphthongized -> /ei/
6. Long /y:/ is diphthongized -> /yi/
7. Long /i:/ is merged with short /i/ -> /i/
8. /æ/ of open syllables is diphtongized to /æi/ if the following syllable has an unrounded vowel. /æ/ -> /æi/ / _.CV [-rounding]
9. /æ/ of open syllables is diphtongized to /æy/ if the following syllable has a rounded vowel. /æ/ -> /æy/ / _.CV [+rounding]
10. /ɒ/ of open syllables is diphtongized to /ɒu/ if the following syllable has a rounded vowel. /ɒ/ -> /ɒu/ / _.CV [+rounding]
Unstressed vowels are effectively reduced making the conditioned sound changes phonemic.
The vowel system of the language is thus:
y, yi, i, u
ei
e, o
æy, æi, ɒu
æ, ɒ
Written:
y, ý, í, ó
é
e, o
aCu, aCi, áCu
a, á
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread Projext XVI
Renewed consonant inventory
p t͡s t t͡ɬ t͡ʃ k k͡p q q͡p <p c t tlh ç k kp q qp>
s ɬ ʃ χ <s lh ş h>
ʋ z ɹ ɮ~l ʒ ɣ w ʁ ʁ͡β <v z rh l ʐ g w x xv>
r <r>
m n ŋ ŋ͡m ɴ ɴ͡m <m n ng mg nx mx>
p t͡s t t͡ɬ t͡ʃ k k͡p q q͡p <p c t tlh ç k kp q qp>
s ɬ ʃ χ <s lh ş h>
ʋ z ɹ ɮ~l ʒ ɣ w ʁ ʁ͡β <v z rh l ʐ g w x xv>
r <r>
m n ŋ ŋ͡m ɴ ɴ͡m <m n ng mg nx mx>
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread Máʐuqpo
I'll call this language Máʐuqpo ['mɒuʐk͡po]
The root is /máʐ/ and /uqp/ a root used for deriving names of languages. /o/ is an article for proper nouns.
The root is /máʐ/ and /uqp/ a root used for deriving names of languages. /o/ is an article for proper nouns.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread
Revising the tense system
There are two absolute tenses: Present and Past.
They can combine with three relative tenses: anterior, simultaneous, and posterior.
Present + posterior = prospective (or future)
Past + posterior = past prospective
Present + simultaneous = habitual
Past + simultaneous = past habitual present
Present + anterior = present perfect
Past + anterior = past perfect
The relative tenses can be used without the absolute tenses as converbs.
There are two absolute tenses: Present and Past.
They can combine with three relative tenses: anterior, simultaneous, and posterior.
Present + posterior = prospective (or future)
Past + posterior = past prospective
Present + simultaneous = habitual
Past + simultaneous = past habitual present
Present + anterior = present perfect
Past + anterior = past perfect
The relative tenses can be used without the absolute tenses as converbs.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread
Ideas fpr Proto-Vtayn-Mhilva
Phonotactic patterns are:
1. (s/f)CVC(C)
2. (s/f)CVCVC(C) (stress on the second syllable)
Unstressed syllables have 5V system (i, e, a, u, o). Stressed syllables also have two diphthongs (ai, au).
Vtayn also has partial reduplication, like PIE perfect. The first consonant is repeated and a vowel is added. It can make CVC stems CVCVC stems.
Vtayn
Unstressed vowels disappear.
2. becomes CCVC
i = i
u = u
a = a
e => ie
o => uo
ai => e
au => o
All Vtayn stems are either:
a) CVC(C) where the first consonant can be reduplicated to C1aC1VC or C1iC1VC
b) or CCVC where the derivational affix can be added as an infix. CaCVC or CiCVC
Mhilva CVCVC stems either
a) have metathesis CCVVC
b) the intervocalis consonant disappears CVVC
That creates long vowels and centralizing diphthongs.
Phonotactic patterns are:
1. (s/f)CVC(C)
2. (s/f)CVCVC(C) (stress on the second syllable)
Unstressed syllables have 5V system (i, e, a, u, o). Stressed syllables also have two diphthongs (ai, au).
Vtayn also has partial reduplication, like PIE perfect. The first consonant is repeated and a vowel is added. It can make CVC stems CVCVC stems.
Vtayn
Unstressed vowels disappear.
2. becomes CCVC
i = i
u = u
a = a
e => ie
o => uo
ai => e
au => o
All Vtayn stems are either:
a) CVC(C) where the first consonant can be reduplicated to C1aC1VC or C1iC1VC
b) or CCVC where the derivational affix can be added as an infix. CaCVC or CiCVC
Mhilva CVCVC stems either
a) have metathesis CCVVC
b) the intervocalis consonant disappears CVVC
That creates long vowels and centralizing diphthongs.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread Project XVII
Ideas for a Slavic lang in Balkan:
- Cases reduced to 4: nominative (accusative), dative (genitive, locative~prepositional), instrumental, vocative.
- Both definite and indefinite declension (old genitives preserved as indefinite nominatives)
- Neuter gender merges with Masculine (not very Balkan I know)
- The Slavic tense-aspect system of 3 imperfective tenses and 2 perfective tenses.
The perfective non-past always has the stress on the prefix próćta 'I will write' vs. proćtá 'I wrote'
Vowels
i, ɨ, u <i, ы, у> <i, ï, u>
e, ə, o <е, ъ, о> <e, ë, o>
a <а> <a>
Consonants
p, t, k <п, т, к> <p, t k>
b, d, g <б, д, г> <b, d, g>
t͡s, t͡ʃ, t͡ɕ <ц, ч, чь> <c, č, ć>
s, ʃ, ɕ <с, ш, шь> <s, š, ś>
z, ʒ, ʑ <з, ж, жь> <z, ž, ź>
m, n nʲ~ɲ <м, н, нь> <m, n, ń>
r, (rʲ), l, lʲ~ʎ <р, (рь), л, ль> <r, (r’), l, l’>
f, x <ф, х> < f, h>
v, j <в, j> <v, j>
- All consonants are palatalized after front vowels.
- /t/ merges with /t͡s/ before /i/.
In some dialect it also happens before /e/ and [tʲ] doesn't appear at all.
- /d/ is also affricated to [dz] before /i/, but that's not phonemic
- Palatal sibilants and affricate dont appear before /ɨ/ or /ə/, and post-velar ssibilants and affricate dont appear before /i/ or /e/.
- There is a dialectal difference how the soft nasal and liquids are pronounced. In dialect 1) they are nʲ, rʲ, lʲ, while in dialect 2) they are ɲ, ʎ, ʑ>
In dialect 1) the non-palatalized variants merge with the palatalized ones before /i/ or /e/.
In dialect 2) the palatalized trill always merges with /ʑ/.
- Cases reduced to 4: nominative (accusative), dative (genitive, locative~prepositional), instrumental, vocative.
- Both definite and indefinite declension (old genitives preserved as indefinite nominatives)
- Neuter gender merges with Masculine (not very Balkan I know)
- The Slavic tense-aspect system of 3 imperfective tenses and 2 perfective tenses.
The perfective non-past always has the stress on the prefix próćta 'I will write' vs. proćtá 'I wrote'
Vowels
i, ɨ, u <i, ы, у> <i, ï, u>
e, ə, o <е, ъ, о> <e, ë, o>
a <а> <a>
Consonants
p, t, k <п, т, к> <p, t k>
b, d, g <б, д, г> <b, d, g>
t͡s, t͡ʃ, t͡ɕ <ц, ч, чь> <c, č, ć>
s, ʃ, ɕ <с, ш, шь> <s, š, ś>
z, ʒ, ʑ <з, ж, жь> <z, ž, ź>
m, n nʲ~ɲ <м, н, нь> <m, n, ń>
r, (rʲ), l, lʲ~ʎ <р, (рь), л, ль> <r, (r’), l, l’>
f, x <ф, х> < f, h>
v, j <в, j> <v, j>
- All consonants are palatalized after front vowels.
- /t/ merges with /t͡s/ before /i/.
In some dialect it also happens before /e/ and [tʲ] doesn't appear at all.
- /d/ is also affricated to [dz] before /i/, but that's not phonemic
- Palatal sibilants and affricate dont appear before /ɨ/ or /ə/, and post-velar ssibilants and affricate dont appear before /i/ or /e/.
- There is a dialectal difference how the soft nasal and liquids are pronounced. In dialect 1) they are nʲ, rʲ, lʲ, while in dialect 2) they are ɲ, ʎ, ʑ>
In dialect 1) the non-palatalized variants merge with the palatalized ones before /i/ or /e/.
In dialect 2) the palatalized trill always merges with /ʑ/.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread
Preliminary declensions
Masculine definite
NOM -zero
DAT -u
INSTR -om, em
VOK -e
Masculine indefinite
NOM -a
DAT -u
INSTR -on, -en
VOK -a
Feminine definite
NOM -a
DAT -e (or -i ?)
INSTR -ëm, -em
VOK -o
Feminite indefinite
NOM -i
DAT -e
INSTR -ën, -en
VOK -i
Masculine definite
NOM -zero
DAT -u
INSTR -om, em
VOK -e
Masculine indefinite
NOM -a
DAT -u
INSTR -on, -en
VOK -a
Feminine definite
NOM -a
DAT -e (or -i ?)
INSTR -ëm, -em
VOK -o
Feminite indefinite
NOM -i
DAT -e
INSTR -ën, -en
VOK -i
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread
There are primarily preverbless verbs like pisac 'be writing/ usually write' that can be made perfective with a preverb propisac 'write'
There are also primary preverbed verb like popisac 'to sign' that form their imperfective forms from the l-participle, which is always imperfective, propisal 'he was writing/used to write' Budu pisalëm 'I am writing/ usually write.' lit 'I will be [the one having written].'
There are also primary preverbed verb like popisac 'to sign' that form their imperfective forms from the l-participle, which is always imperfective, propisal 'he was writing/used to write' Budu pisalëm 'I am writing/ usually write.' lit 'I will be [the one having written].'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread XIIX
Consonants have a prestopped alternation, marked ().
p (pp) t (tt) k (kk)
f s x h
m (bm) n (dn) ŋ (gŋ)
l (dl) ʟ (gʟ)
ɾ (dɾ)
j (ɟj)
Basic 7-triangle
i u
e o
ɛ ɔ
a
Verbs code evidentiality/egophoricity:
EGO
DIRECT EVIDENCE
GENRAL KNOWLEDGE
INDIRECT EVIDENCE
Proximate and distal "articles" of nouns, which verbs also agree.
Cases are quite Turkish:
Direct
Lative-Dative
Locative
Ablative
Instrumental
p (pp) t (tt) k (kk)
f s x h
m (bm) n (dn) ŋ (gŋ)
l (dl) ʟ (gʟ)
ɾ (dɾ)
j (ɟj)
Basic 7-triangle
i u
e o
ɛ ɔ
a
Verbs code evidentiality/egophoricity:
EGO
DIRECT EVIDENCE
GENRAL KNOWLEDGE
INDIRECT EVIDENCE
Proximate and distal "articles" of nouns, which verbs also agree.
Cases are quite Turkish:
Direct
Lative-Dative
Locative
Ablative
Instrumental
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread
A language where a consonant can appear only word-initially.
Normal word patterns are:
CV.V(N)
CV.SV(N)
*Where S stands for a semivowel.
*Where N stands for n ŋ which also nasalize the following vowel, like in Mandarin.
Inflection is mostly done with nonal changes and mutations of the first consonant.
p t̯ t k kʷ
f s x
m n̯ n ŋ ŋʷ
l̯ l ʟ
r
w j
All sonorants can be prestopped.
w and j can be geminated (they are the only consonants that can appear inter-vocally).
Non-geminate /w/ and /j/ are written <w> and <y> respectively and <u> and <i> when geminated.
i u
e o
ɛ ɔ
a
Normal word patterns are:
CV.V(N)
CV.SV(N)
*Where S stands for a semivowel.
*Where N stands for n ŋ which also nasalize the following vowel, like in Mandarin.
Inflection is mostly done with nonal changes and mutations of the first consonant.
p t̯ t k kʷ
f s x
m n̯ n ŋ ŋʷ
l̯ l ʟ
r
w j
All sonorants can be prestopped.
w and j can be geminated (they are the only consonants that can appear inter-vocally).
Non-geminate /w/ and /j/ are written <w> and <y> respectively and <u> and <i> when geminated.
i u
e o
ɛ ɔ
a
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread XIX
A Uralic lang more or less closely related to Finnic. Only basic 5 vowel system.
Nouns have three declensions, where distinction between Nominative and Accusative is made with changing the last vowel.
i-stem
NOM -i
ACC -e
(Estonian meri - mere 'sea')
a-stems
NOM - zero
ACC -a
(Estonian linn - linna 'town')
u-stems are analogical to i-stems
NOM -u
ACC -o
A problem is how Slavic feminines ending in -a are handled. Finnish has many loan words that have -a in modern Swedish but -u is Finnish (skola - koulu 'school'). Old Scandinavic apparently had a higher ending vowel. This adaptation could be generalized for Slavic loans, as well.
Nouns have three declensions, where distinction between Nominative and Accusative is made with changing the last vowel.
i-stem
NOM -i
ACC -e
(Estonian meri - mere 'sea')
a-stems
NOM - zero
ACC -a
(Estonian linn - linna 'town')
u-stems are analogical to i-stems
NOM -u
ACC -o
A problem is how Slavic feminines ending in -a are handled. Finnish has many loan words that have -a in modern Swedish but -u is Finnish (skola - koulu 'school'). Old Scandinavic apparently had a higher ending vowel. This adaptation could be generalized for Slavic loans, as well.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760