Omzinian Scrap thread

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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Idea for a lang

- topic-prominent
- The semantic role of the topic is not marked
- Topic NP is marked for {normal topic, topicalization (new topic), contrastive topic/focus}
- the semantic roles of other participants are marked by adpositions (á la Japanese)
- Genitive and Direct morphological cases

- Aspect-Tense (Habitual-Iterative, Progressive, Past Perfective, Future Perfective) is marked by an obligatory particle between Topic and the clause.
- Verbs are clause-final
- Verbs are marked for mood (Indicative, Subjunctive, some relative-clause/DS mood), Impersonal form, which usually refers to 1st or 2nd person, and maybe Incoative and Cessative.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

A new phonology

p t t͡ʂ t͡ɕ k <p t ch cy k>
b d d͡ʐ d͡ʑ g <b d jh jy g>
ɹ ʐ j w <r zh y w>
s h <s h>
z <z>
m n ɳ ɲ ŋ <m n nh ny ng>
l ɭ ʎ <l lh ly>

OR MAYBE

p t t͡ʂ k <p t ch k>
b d d͡ʐ g <b d j g>
β ɹ ɻ ɣ <v r rh gh>
s h <s h>
z <z>
m n ɳ <m n nh>
l ɭ <l lh>
j w <y w>

OR MAYBE

p t t͡ʂ k <p t ch k>
b d d͡ʐ g <b d j g>
β ɹ ʐ ɣ <bh r jh gh>
s h <s h>
z <z>
m n <m n>
l <l>
j w <y w>
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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A IE lang

*bh -> ph -> f => h
*dh -> th -> ts
*g'h/gh/ghw -> kh -> x

(b -> v )
d -> z
g'/g/gw -> velar fricative

p
t
k'/k/kw -> k (rounding affects vowels)

s
n
m
l
r (a tap intevocally) (a "a"-style sound in coda, like in most dialects of German)
w -> v
j


p t t͡s k
s x~χ (h)
z ɣ~ʁ
m n
l ɾ~ɐ
ʋ j

y: i: u:
ʏ ɪ ʊ
ø e o
ä

/ar/ -> [a:]
Last edited by Omzinesý on 01 Dec 2020 20:36, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Word-final geminates are not allowed in any of my langs. Must make one with them.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

I new random idea:

A lang with an inverse alignment between subject, object, recipient argument, and other-complement argument (think about, feel about...).
There are 6 relations at best, coded in one verb.

("<" coding 'is less salient than' i.e. the inverse marker)
S < O, S < R, S < OCA
O < R, O < OCA
R < OCA

Recipient can be assumed more salient than the object, depending if goal arguments are also coded in it.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

jas 'does'
jax 'did'

et 'lies'
ak 'lied'

rez 'says'
reg 'said'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

I could make another IE lang with one of my favorite phoneme inventory

p t t͡s k
s x~χ (h)
z ɣ~ʁ
m n nˠ ŋ
l lˠ r
ʋ j

y i u
yø ie uo
ø e o
ä

It could be positioned somewhere in Baltia.
This could be a clear Satem language.

*k' => s
*g' => z

*voiced aspirated stops and *voiced plain stops merge and become voiced fricatives.
*b/*bh => ʋ
*d/*dh => ð => z
*g/*gh(/*gw/*gwh) => ɣ

Through some version of RUKI conditioning:
s => š
and then all
š => x
(I don't actually know if RUKI applies to /z/ anywhere.)

ɣ => x word-initially

So the lang has quite nice Balto-Slavic sound changes, without further palatalizations, though.
š in newer loan words is substituted with s. (sūle from German Schule ...)

/t͡s/ is marginal
t => t͡s before /j/
t͡s corresponds to <c> in many Latin-based loanwords (informatsioon, korporatsioon ...)
Many /t͡s/s are borrowed with German loan words.

/h/ only appears in loan words.

Velarized and plain l and n only contrast in coda. In onset, they are always plain. There the velarized is the normal allophone and the plain one comes with loan words and /t/ + /n/ => n, /t/ + /l/ => /l/.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote: 07 Jan 2021 12:08 I could make another IE lang with one of my favorite phoneme inventory

p t t͡s k
s x~χ (h)
z ɣ~ʁ
m n nˠ ŋ
l lˠ r
ʋ j

y i u
yø ie uo
ø e o
ä

It could be positioned somewhere in Baltia.
This could be a clear Satem language.

*k' => s
*g' => z

*voiced aspirated stops and *voiced plain stops merge and become voiced fricatives.
*b/*bh => ʋ
*d/*dh => ð => z
*g/*gh(/*gw/*gwh) => ɣ

Through some version of RUKI conditioning:
s => š
and then all
š => x
(I don't actually know if RUKI applies to /z/ anywhere.)

ɣ => x word-initially

So the lang has quite nice Balto-Slavic sound changes, without further palatalizations, though.
š in newer loan words is substituted with s. (sūle from German Schule ...)

/t͡s/ is marginal
t => t͡s before /j/
t͡s corresponds to <c> in many Latin-based loanwords (informatsioon, korporatsioon ...)
Many /t͡s/s are borrowed with German loan words.

/h/ only appears in loan words.

Velarized and plain l and n only contrast in coda. In onset, they are always plain. There the velarized is the normal allophone and the plain one comes with loan words and /t/ + /n/ => n, /t/ + /l/ => /l/.
Attempt for a declension

NOM huut (German loan word 'hat')
ACC huun (IE accusative m)
DAT huunu (Balto-Slavic acc + vo)
LOC nuutu (EI locative + vo)
ABL huutut (IE Ablative)
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Idea

A Modern-Greek-style phonology (dental fricatives especially)
Phonotactics could allow any coda with diminishing sonority: ps, tx...
Stress is phonemic like in Modern Greek. There could even be a Swedish-style simple pitch accent.



three cases: NOM-ACC, GEN-DAT, and FOCUS CASE or EXCLAMATIVE

Some fusion of stems and endings

NOM-ACC fedhec
GEN-DAT fethenj
FOCUS fedheje

PL
NOM-ACC fedhece
GEN-DAT fethenje
FOCUS fedhecé

There might also be a Generic paradigm of noun beside Singular and Plural.

Focus Case is of course no a semantic case but just a part of the case paradigm sharing most of the semantics of Nom-Acc. A focused genitive needs a relative clause: 'the house that THE MAN has' where 'the man' is in Focus Case.

This could also be a good lang for testing light verbs, like 'to have effect on X' instead of 'to affect X'. But then I would like to have an oblique or ablative case as well. Some light verb constructions govern Genitive and some Oblique.


No too complex a verb system, because I fail such langs. But there could be some irregularity in the frequent verbs that are used as light verbs.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

NGamira is a name for my one project.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

A lang called Tamduk (ταμρουκ)
Inspired by Coptic, written with Greek letters

Triconsonantal and diconsonantal roots.

ta 'feminine definite article'
m- derivation 'related to'
duk 'the name of the folk'

p t̪ d~ɾ k ʔ <π τ ρ κ (spiritus lenis)> <p t d k '>
f θ ɹ x h <φ θ δ χ (spiritus aspis)> <f th r x h>
s z̙~ʒ <ς ζ> <s j>
m n̪̥ n <μ νν ν> <m nn n>
ɬ̪ l <λλ λ> <ll l>
j w <ι υ> <y w>

There is a voiceless laminodeltal series and a voiced apicoalveolar series. In some roots the dentals are interpreted as geminated alveolars, phonemically.

Vowels of stressed syllables:
i u <ι oυ> <i u>
e o <ε ο> <e o>
ɛ ɔ <η ω> <ê ô>
ä <α> <a>

Wovels of unstressed syllables:
ɪ~e, ʊ~o <ɛ, o> <i u>
ə <α> <a>
In final unstressed syllables only ə <α> is allowed.

No real length distinction of either vowels or consonants.

Verbs have two aspect forms that are formed with vowel alternations: Non-Habitual and Habitual. Non-Habitual has <a e o> while Habitual has <ô û û> respectively.

pa-xerda 'the book'
xrad 'wrote'
xrôd 'used to write'

xord 'read'
xurd 'used to read'

Nouns:

No indefinite article

pa- 'Masculine Definite Singular Nominative'
ta- 'Feminine Definite Singular Nominative'
wa- 'Plural Definite Nominative'

pe- 'Masculine Definite Singular Genitive-Accusative'
te- 'Feminine Definite Singular Genitive-Accusative'
we- 'Plural Definite Genitive-Accusative'

Genitive-Accusative is only used of animate nouns. Inanimate objects are simar to Nominatives. Only alienable possession is expressed with Genitive-Accusative. Alienable possession is expressed with an adjective, whose suffix is usually unstressed -a.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

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A lang somewhat based on Tamil

Code: Select all

 A more Tamil version 
p t̪ ʈ k ʔ
(β) (ð) (ɻ) (ɣ) (ɦ)
s̪ ʂ
(t̪͡s̪ z̪) (t͡ʂ ʐ)
m n̪ ɳ
ɾ̪ ɽ 
l̪ ɭ j  

Code: Select all

 A less Tamil version 
p t  k ʔ
(β) (ð) (ɣ) (ɦ)
s
(t͡s z) 
m n ɳ
ɾ̪ 
l ʟ j  


The sounds in brackets are allophones of the ones above.
- p t̪ ʈ k ʔ are voiceless plosives word-initially and when geminated. They are voiced fricatives inter-vocally.
- s̪ ʂ voiceless fricatives word-initially and word-finally (sometimes affricates) and voiceless affricates when geminated.

Short
i u <i u>
e o <e o>
æ <a>

Long
i: u: <ī ū
e: o: <ē ō>
æ: ɒ̝: <ā ô>

Phonotactics
The boring (C)V(C)
Coda can only be a dorsal nasal, lateral, trill, (still considering sibilants), or the first part of a geminate.

- Stress always on the second syllable. First syllables cannot be "extra-long", i.e. have both a long vowel and a coda.
- In two-syllable words, the second (stressed) syllable cannot be short, i.e. have a short vowel without coda.
There are no other restrictions on syllable weights.





- Verbs agree their subject in gender/number á la Tamil: Masculine, Feminine, Rational Plural, Irrational Singular, Irrational Plural

There are two types of verb stems: vocalic one and consonantal one. Vocalic stems have the following subject endings:
Masculine -ļ
Feminine -l
Rational Plural -du
Irrational Singular -Ø (in two-syllable words the vowel lengthens)
Irrational Plural -da

Consonant stems always end in a dental/retroflex consonant which alternate between Masculine and Feminine.

Masculine (retroflex last consonant)
Feminine (dental last consonant)
Rational Plural -du
Irrational Singular -a (dental last consonant)
Irrational Plural -da


- Adjectives agree their head noun in gender/number with the suffixes above and case with the normal case suffixes of nouns.


Nouns have case marking but no gender/number marking.

NOM pilit | kosee (kose:)
OBL pilit-a | kose
ACC pilit-u | kose-i
GEN pilit-a-' | kose-'
PART pilit-in | kose-in

Consonant stems
NOM the stem
OBL -a
ACC -u
GEN oblique + gemination of the first vowel of the possessed
PART -in

Vowel stems
NOM the stem, in two-syllable stems the last vowel lengthens
OBL the stem
ACC -u after a back vowel, -i after a front vowel
GEN -'
PART -un after a back vowel, -in after a front vowel
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Once there was a king. He was childless. The king wanted a son. He asked his priest: "May a son be born to me!" The priest said to the king: "Pray to the god Werunos." The king approached the god Werunos to pray now to the god. "Hear me, father Werunos!" The god Werunos came down from heaven. "What do you want?" "I want a son." "Let this be so," said the bright god Werunos. The king's lady bore a son.

Logii nayusa pattoÎ.
[lo'ɣi: næ'juzæ pat'toʟ]
loki nacu-sa patto-Î
once rule-ACTOR_NMLZ exist.PST-RAT.SG3.M
'Once there was a king.'

Oyare punodex pattotssoasu.
[o'jæɾe pu'noðex pat'tot͡ssɒ̝:zu]
o-ca-re puno-tex patto-ssɒ̝ɒ:-su
3-OBL-to child-PART exist-NEG-RAT.PL
'He did not have any children'

Nayusaire teebaa ÎattuÎ.
[næ'juzæɾe te:'βæ: ʟæt'tuʟ]
nacusa-i-re teepa Îattu-Î
ruler-OBL-to son.NOM please-RAT.SG3.M
'He wanted a son.'

Kosu'erouxu peerenn: "teebadexxu 'umikkiÎ".
[ko'zuʔʔerouxu pe:'ɾeŋ | te:'βæðexxu ʔu'mikkilʟ]
kosu-'-'ero-u-xu peerenn | teepa-tex-xu 'umi'-ki-Î
god-man-ACC-POSS-SG3.RAT.M ask.SG3.RAT.M son-PART-POSS_RAT.SG3.M be_born-INTERROG-SG3.RAT.M
'He asked his priest(s) if any son would be born to him.'

Kosu'ero nayusaxurre coppaÎ: "Uberunoxkosuire mehuyoppa".
[ko'zuʔʔeɾo næ'juzærre cop'pæʟ | u'werunoxkozuiɾe me'ɦuyoppæ]
kosu''ero nacusa-xu-'-re copp-a-Î | Uperunos-kosu-i-re me'u-copp-o
priest king-his-OBL-to request-PST-SG3.M Werunos-god-OBL-DAT good-ask-IMPER.SG2

Nayasa kosuire paatssamaÎ mehuyoppima.
[næ'juzæ ko'zuiɾe pæ:t͡s'sæmæʟ me'ɦujoppimæ]
nacusa kosu-i-re paassam-a-Î me'ucopp-ima-∅
king good-OBL-to turn-PST-SG3M prey-OPTAT-SS

"Korjedumo, Uberunosnuulo!"
[kor'ɟeðumo | u'weɾunosnu:lo]
korc-et-um-o | uperunos-nu:lo
hear-INTENSIVE-sg1-IMPER.SG2 | Werunos-father
'Listen to me, Werunos-father.'

Uberunoxkosu podellaben sonnaÎ.
[u'weɾunoxkozu po'ðellaβen sonnæʟ]
uperunos-kosu potol-:a-pen sonn-a-Î
Werunos-gad sky-OBL-from move_down-PAST-SG3M
'Werunos-gad came down from the heaven.'

"Îattungitsse?"
[ʟæt'tuŋgit͡sse]
Îattu-n-ki-sse
please-SG2OBJ-INTERR-what

"Teebaa ÎattumuÎ."
[te:'βæ: ʟæt'tumuʟ]
teepa Îattu-m-u-Î
son please-SG1-∅-SG3M
'I want a son.'

"Noppuimaa", siinoyadex Uberunoxkosu colaÎ.
[nop'puimæ: | si:'nojaðex u'weɾunoxkozu co'laʟ]
noppu-ima-: | siinoca-tex uperunos-kosu col-a-Î
happen-OPTAT-sg.IRRAT | brightness-PART Werunos-god say-PST-SG3M
'That shall happen, the god said.'

Nayusa' mettoo teebau umittal.
[na'jusa met'to: te:'βæu u'mittæl]
nacusa-' metto teepa-u u'mi-t-a-l
king-GEN wife son-ACC be_born-CAUS-PST-SG3F
'The king's wife bore a son.'

NOTES:
In words "logii", "teebaa", the second vowel lengthens because final, stressed syllable cannot be just one mora.
Word "peerenn" [pe:'ɾeŋ] is a consonant stem, i.e. its gender agreement is fusional, "peeren" [pe:'ɾen] being its feminine form.
The lang has not phoneme /w/. In the name Werunos, it is replased by /up/ which is pronounced [uw].
The last morpheme in "Îattungitsse", is glossed as 'what' but it means 'something' in non-interrogative clauses.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

I have once again got interested in tone languages and their tonal morphology.

Ideas:

Nouns are usually VCV and verbs CV, like in Yoruba and Igbo. Verbs don't have lexical tones but verbs can be HH, HL, LH or LL.

VPs have two grammatical functions expressed by tone: same subject vs. different subject and imperfective vs. perfective. Some static verbs are always imperfective, though.

Same subject is low tone on the verb, different subject is a high tone on the verb.
Perfective high tone one last unit of the VP and imperfective is a low tone on the last unit of the VP.

ro 'eat'
èké 'cake'

(1) rò èké 'SS ate the cake'
(2) rò ékè 'SS was eating cake'
(3) ró èké 'DS are the cake'
(4) ró èkê 'DS was eating cake'

In (1) and (3), no aspect marker is needed because the last tone is already high.
In (2), the lexical tones LH of èké move leftwards because ró has a high tone and the following high tone can be omitted /added to the same vowel.
In (4), the same cannot happen all vowels have different tone than the preceding one. The low tone of imperfective aspect is thus added to the last vowel, creating a lowering tone.

If the verb has no complement, both subject and aspect tones are added to it.
pă 'SS died'
pà 'SS is dying'
pá 'DS died'
pâ 'DS is dying'
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Idea!

An English-based creole

Usually CVCV words with the same vowel
dogo 'dog'
kete 'cat'
bolo 'ball'

But English diphthongs are divided into two syllables
fati 'fight'
tanu 'town'

But through language shift from a native language, new exotic grammatical features have appeared, like inverse alignment based on a complex noun class ranking system etc.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Creyeditor »

Omzinesý wrote: 01 May 2021 20:23 But English diphthongs are divided into two syllables
fati 'fight'
tanu 'town'
I just recently read something similar about a Chinese language, where a suffix became an infix and splits up diphthongs now.
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Creyeditor wrote: 01 May 2021 20:46
Omzinesý wrote: 01 May 2021 20:23 But English diphthongs are divided into two syllables
fati 'fight'
tanu 'town'
I just recently read something similar about a Chinese language, where a suffix became an infix and splits up diphthongs now.
Interesting!
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

A Romlang

A Romlang (possible South-Romance) affected by Greek and become Greek-like.
I may have been thinking something similar before, but no matter.

Latin voiced stops become voiced fricatives
and are later devoiced word-initially, ending up to voiceless fricatives.
Latin voiceless stops become fricatives inter-vocally.
Geminate stops become non-geminates.

I'm still not sure how Latin /b/ and /v/ behave word-initially. One of them probably merges with /f/ and one does not.

Velars are not assibilated, but palatalized before front-vowels, creting phonemic contrast between velars (which cannot appear before front-vowels) and palatals (which can appear in all positions).

The system of obstruent phonemes. /ð ʝ ɣ/ only don't appear word-initially.
p t (ts) c k
f θ s ç x
v ð (z) ʝ ɣ
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Ideas for a lang where I wanna avoid SAEisms

- nouns and monovalent verbs are one class (generic/verby vs. non-generic/nouny marked with article)
- bivalent verbs mark voice (direct, inverse, reflexive)
- no tense but realis but irrealis moods
- bunch of aspectual clitics that are semantically 'optional'
- head marking

- many stop-fricative clusters like /kf/
- pitch accent (Every word (by definition) has a domain of high-tone syllables. aááa is allowed but áaaá is not. A glottal stop may appear as a suprasegmental feature on the right edge of the high-tone doman.

i ɯ u
ɛ ʌ ɔ
Back-vowels have a harmony where only rounded or unrounded ones appear in one word (or maybe some sequence in a word).
Vowels can be short or long (phonemically two vowels). Rising diphthongs ɛi, ɔu, ʌɯ also appear.



(1) p t k q
(2) f θ s ɬ x χ
(3) ʋ ð̞ l ɣ̞ ʁ
(4) m n ŋ ɴ
(5) ʋ̃ ð̞̃ l̃ ɣ̞̃ ʁ̃
Nasal approximants nasalize the following vowel, which is the main phonetic feature to recognize them.
Allowed clusters are (1)(2), (1)(3), (4)(5).
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Omzinesý
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Re: Omzinian Scrap thread

Post by Omzinesý »

A new IE lang

'to leave'

Code: Select all

PRESENT
	POSITIVE INDICATIVE	SUBJUNCTIVE 		NEGATIVE 		
sg1	lenke < linekme		lengu < lineko:		lengonu (particle ne) 
sg2	lence < linekse 	lenges < linekes	lengones 
sg3	lente < linekte 	lenge(th) < lineket 	lengone 

AORIST 
sg1	like
sg2	lice
sg3 	like 
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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