Con-Script Development Centre

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clawgrip
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by clawgrip »

Is this script related to the previous one, or is it a new one?

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Ahzoh
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Ahzoh »

It's the same script but with more letters.
Image Ӯсцьӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image Śāt Wērxālu (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]

Salmoneus
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Salmoneus »

I don't suppose, in Inkscape, there's any way to identify what brush made a particular shape, is there?

I'm assuming not, because once you've drawn a shape it just becomes... well, a shape, like any other.

But I thought I'd ask on the offchance...


(I wrote up a conscript years ago, but I've lost the brush I used and I can't seem to replicate it, which is very annoying...)

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Shemtov
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Shemtov »

Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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LinguoFranco
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by LinguoFranco »

Given Kazumbe's syllable structure (CGVC) being the most complex, I think a syllabary might work best, but I've also been toying with an abugida or a logographic system like in Chinese.

Unfortunately, I have absolutely no skills in designing a conscript as I can never seem to get the aesthetic quite right and run out of variations that I can think of after creating only a few glyphs.

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sangi39
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by sangi39 »

Shemtov wrote:
22 Dec 2019 07:38
Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
Sounds a bit like Linear B, although I suppose it depends on how "defective" you want the recipient language's orthography to be (especially with regards to tone).
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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Shemtov
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Shemtov »

sangi39 wrote:
27 Dec 2019 13:12
Shemtov wrote:
22 Dec 2019 07:38
Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
Sounds a bit like Linear B, although I suppose it depends on how "defective" you want the recipient language's orthography to be (especially with regards to tone).
I was thinking more along the lines of Mayan glyphs, with more emphasis on the syllabary part
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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sangi39
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by sangi39 »

Shemtov wrote:
29 Dec 2019 21:53
sangi39 wrote:
27 Dec 2019 13:12
Shemtov wrote:
22 Dec 2019 07:38
Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
Sounds a bit like Linear B, although I suppose it depends on how "defective" you want the recipient language's orthography to be (especially with regards to tone).
I was thinking more along the lines of Mayan glyphs, with more emphasis on the syllabary part
I think it could still work. Linear B was a (C)V writing system aimed at writing Mycenaean Greek (which was, what, (C)(C)(C)V(C)(C)?) and the logographic portion of the script was maybe a dozen signs larger than the syllabic portion. I don't know what the relative proportions were in Mayan (I think it was several times larger, but as in Egyptian hieroglyphs they typically served a dual purpose of "sometimes phonetic"), but it doesn't seem unreasonable that a similar type of writing system might be borrowed with a heavier emphasis on the use of syllabic signs.

I think that was the general trend in Akkadian, which reduced the number of ideograms from Sumerian by over a half, and further in Hittite which reduced them by a half again. Thinking about it, Linear A, if I remember correctly, is though to have had around twice as many ideograms as Linear B.

The upside of something like Mayan is that there's syllabic synharmony and disharmony, which meant that CV syllables could be used to write CVC syllables without having to resort to a separate set of VC signs (which was the Sumerian and Akkadian method, IIRC). I mean, again, Linear B managed to do the same thing, but I think they used, for example CV-V-CV if they were represent a long vowel in a closed syllable (assuming eother vowel length or the coda was written at all), whereas Mayan wrote them explicitly, and just as CV-CV (so that's saves a sign).

Again, though, exactly how the syllabary is used to write the new language, with its more complex consonant clusters, will depend on to what extent the new writers can, or can be bothered, to fit the writing system to their own phonotactics (the Cypriot syllabary, for example, which was largely the same as Linear B in terms of structure, had a habit of writing more sounds, e.g. PO-RO, "foal" was written as PO-LO-SE in Cypriot, both representing /polos/. Linear B also tended not to represent diphthongs, so PO-RO could also be "foals", /poroi/, while I think this would have been written as PO-LO-I in Cypriot.

Anyway, yeah, it seems doable.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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Shemtov
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Shemtov »

I'm thinking that since the original language had more vowels than the new one, that the syllables with vowels that don't exist in the new language, are used as abjad like signs, so SE-KE-LI is read /skli/.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Linguifex
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Linguifex »

In a hieroglyphic-esque system (à la Mayan), assume a series of phonetic complements that can attach to the glyphs. Is it reasonable that these complements could begin to stand alone and form the basis of a syllabary, or is that implausible?
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spanick
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by spanick »

Linguifex wrote:
01 May 2020 04:59
In a hieroglyphic-esque system (à la Mayan), assume a series of phonetic complements that can attach to the glyphs. Is it reasonable that these complements could begin to stand alone and form the basis of a syllabary, or is that implausible?
I don’t think it’s implausible but I think the way those phonetic compliments work might influence that. Are they large semi-independent and easily recognizable? Then probably. Are they small and difficult to distinguish from the main glyph? Probably not.

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jimydog000
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by jimydog000 »

You could have these compliments attatch to a dummy symantic-character.
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