Con-Script Development Centre

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clawgrip
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by clawgrip »

Is this script related to the previous one, or is it a new one?
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Ahzoh
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Ahzoh »

It's the same script but with more letters.
Image Śād Warḫālali (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
Salmoneus
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Salmoneus »

I don't suppose, in Inkscape, there's any way to identify what brush made a particular shape, is there?

I'm assuming not, because once you've drawn a shape it just becomes... well, a shape, like any other.

But I thought I'd ask on the offchance...


(I wrote up a conscript years ago, but I've lost the brush I used and I can't seem to replicate it, which is very annoying...)
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Shemtov
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Shemtov »

Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
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LinguoFranco
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by LinguoFranco »

Given Kazumbe's syllable structure (CGVC) being the most complex, I think a syllabary might work best, but I've also been toying with an abugida or a logographic system like in Chinese.

Unfortunately, I have absolutely no skills in designing a conscript as I can never seem to get the aesthetic quite right and run out of variations that I can think of after creating only a few glyphs.
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sangi39
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by sangi39 »

Shemtov wrote: 22 Dec 2019 07:38 Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
Sounds a bit like Linear B, although I suppose it depends on how "defective" you want the recipient language's orthography to be (especially with regards to tone).
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Shemtov
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Shemtov »

sangi39 wrote: 27 Dec 2019 13:12
Shemtov wrote: 22 Dec 2019 07:38 Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
Sounds a bit like Linear B, although I suppose it depends on how "defective" you want the recipient language's orthography to be (especially with regards to tone).
I was thinking more along the lines of Mayan glyphs, with more emphasis on the syllabary part
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sangi39
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by sangi39 »

Shemtov wrote: 29 Dec 2019 21:53
sangi39 wrote: 27 Dec 2019 13:12
Shemtov wrote: 22 Dec 2019 07:38 Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
Sounds a bit like Linear B, although I suppose it depends on how "defective" you want the recipient language's orthography to be (especially with regards to tone).
I was thinking more along the lines of Mayan glyphs, with more emphasis on the syllabary part
I think it could still work. Linear B was a (C)V writing system aimed at writing Mycenaean Greek (which was, what, (C)(C)(C)V(C)(C)?) and the logographic portion of the script was maybe a dozen signs larger than the syllabic portion. I don't know what the relative proportions were in Mayan (I think it was several times larger, but as in Egyptian hieroglyphs they typically served a dual purpose of "sometimes phonetic"), but it doesn't seem unreasonable that a similar type of writing system might be borrowed with a heavier emphasis on the use of syllabic signs.

I think that was the general trend in Akkadian, which reduced the number of ideograms from Sumerian by over a half, and further in Hittite which reduced them by a half again. Thinking about it, Linear A, if I remember correctly, is though to have had around twice as many ideograms as Linear B.

The upside of something like Mayan is that there's syllabic synharmony and disharmony, which meant that CV syllables could be used to write CVC syllables without having to resort to a separate set of VC signs (which was the Sumerian and Akkadian method, IIRC). I mean, again, Linear B managed to do the same thing, but I think they used, for example CV-V-CV if they were represent a long vowel in a closed syllable (assuming eother vowel length or the coda was written at all), whereas Mayan wrote them explicitly, and just as CV-CV (so that's saves a sign).

Again, though, exactly how the syllabary is used to write the new language, with its more complex consonant clusters, will depend on to what extent the new writers can, or can be bothered, to fit the writing system to their own phonotactics (the Cypriot syllabary, for example, which was largely the same as Linear B in terms of structure, had a habit of writing more sounds, e.g. PO-RO, "foal" was written as PO-LO-SE in Cypriot, both representing /polos/. Linear B also tended not to represent diphthongs, so PO-RO could also be "foals", /poroi/, while I think this would have been written as PO-LO-I in Cypriot.

Anyway, yeah, it seems doable.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Shemtov
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Shemtov »

I'm thinking that since the original language had more vowels than the new one, that the syllables with vowels that don't exist in the new language, are used as abjad like signs, so SE-KE-LI is read /skli/.
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Man in Space »

In a hieroglyphic-esque system (à la Mayan), assume a series of phonetic complements that can attach to the glyphs. Is it reasonable that these complements could begin to stand alone and form the basis of a syllabary, or is that implausible?
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CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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spanick
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by spanick »

Linguifex wrote: 01 May 2020 04:59 In a hieroglyphic-esque system (à la Mayan), assume a series of phonetic complements that can attach to the glyphs. Is it reasonable that these complements could begin to stand alone and form the basis of a syllabary, or is that implausible?
I don’t think it’s implausible but I think the way those phonetic compliments work might influence that. Are they large semi-independent and easily recognizable? Then probably. Are they small and difficult to distinguish from the main glyph? Probably not.
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jimydog000
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by jimydog000 »

You could have these compliments attatch to a dummy symantic-character.
“Your queen is a reptile.”
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jimydog000
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by jimydog000 »

I think I'm creating a system that I could promote as having 'Opposite capital letters'.
The lowercase letters are mostly written from the bottom to the top and down again and link into the next letter, a bit like Arabic, while the capital letters look like shorthand of the lowercase and start from the top and go down. And when a word doesn't start with a capital it indicates it is part of a compound. eg: topsy-turvy would be written Topsy turvy and all other start-of-word-letters would be capitals.
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by sasasha »

Ahzoh wrote: 07 Aug 2019 06:32 I made the letter Wa:
Spoiler:
Image, which I can't get to show for some reason.
Also some punctuation.
Lovely!!

You could have just used a single dot to get y from sh. The yogh shape is fine too, but the single dot would appeal to me as you already have dots as a feature, and when you have two dots meaning voicing, one dot could suggest approximants as if they were conceived as 'weakened' voiced consonants.
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by silvercat »

Here's my page for Nyjichun's, my main conlang, conscript - https://silvercat.neocities.org/nyji-writing.html. There is a formal and informal script - the formal is up. The informal is done but I need to get it scanned.

It's vaguely featural based on the position of the tongue, teeth, and lips, but were altered to accommodate the writing surface, which is a heavily grained bark which requires the avoidance of horizontal lines.

The vowels started as rotated arrows. I, u, and ɒ are modified versions of y, ɯ, and a respectively after being flipped.

Consonants are stacked. I've been doing the formal script in a 'monospaced' font. If handwritten or done with a more advanced system, the consonants at the bottom of the column would be half-width.

Here's my'ak (the apostrophe marks a syllable that starts with a vowel)

Image

And here's a sentence

Image

spoken Nyji: moŋ chunɯn βijy ŋazyvzɯ?
separated: moŋ chun-ɯn βi-jy ŋa-zyv-zɯ?
written: moŋ chunn βij zɯŋv
gloss: your cat-ACC that-NOM 3sg.SBJ-3sg.POBJ-Question
loose gloss: Is that your cat?
my pronouns: they/them or e/em/eirs/emself
Main conlang: Ŋyjichɯn. Other conlangs: Tsɑkø (naming language), Ie, Tynthna, Maanxmuʃt, Ylialis
All my conlangs
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Ahzoh
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Ahzoh »

I'm not sure if I should be making more letters less tall and have their ascenders and descenders be more standard
Image
Image Śād Warḫālali (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
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Ahzoh
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Ahzoh »

Sentence enders/separators (denoted by four dots) and paragraph markers (parenthesis-looking things)
Image

I took the paragraph marks from some unknown person's conscript sample:
https://i.imgur.com/A783lcr.jpg
Image Śād Warḫālali (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
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