Con-Script Development Centre
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
Is this script related to the previous one, or is it a new one?
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
I don't suppose, in Inkscape, there's any way to identify what brush made a particular shape, is there?
I'm assuming not, because once you've drawn a shape it just becomes... well, a shape, like any other.
But I thought I'd ask on the offchance...
(I wrote up a conscript years ago, but I've lost the brush I used and I can't seem to replicate it, which is very annoying...)
I'm assuming not, because once you've drawn a shape it just becomes... well, a shape, like any other.
But I thought I'd ask on the offchance...
(I wrote up a conscript years ago, but I've lost the brush I used and I can't seem to replicate it, which is very annoying...)
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
-JRR Tolkien
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre
Given Kazumbe's syllable structure (CGVC) being the most complex, I think a syllabary might work best, but I've also been toying with an abugida or a logographic system like in Chinese.
Unfortunately, I have absolutely no skills in designing a conscript as I can never seem to get the aesthetic quite right and run out of variations that I can think of after creating only a few glyphs.
Unfortunately, I have absolutely no skills in designing a conscript as I can never seem to get the aesthetic quite right and run out of variations that I can think of after creating only a few glyphs.
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
Sounds a bit like Linear B, although I suppose it depends on how "defective" you want the recipient language's orthography to be (especially with regards to tone).Shemtov wrote: ↑22 Dec 2019 07:38 Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
I was thinking more along the lines of Mayan glyphs, with more emphasis on the syllabary partsangi39 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2019 13:12Sounds a bit like Linear B, although I suppose it depends on how "defective" you want the recipient language's orthography to be (especially with regards to tone).Shemtov wrote: ↑22 Dec 2019 07:38 Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
-JRR Tolkien
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
I think it could still work. Linear B was a (C)V writing system aimed at writing Mycenaean Greek (which was, what, (C)(C)(C)V(C)(C)?) and the logographic portion of the script was maybe a dozen signs larger than the syllabic portion. I don't know what the relative proportions were in Mayan (I think it was several times larger, but as in Egyptian hieroglyphs they typically served a dual purpose of "sometimes phonetic"), but it doesn't seem unreasonable that a similar type of writing system might be borrowed with a heavier emphasis on the use of syllabic signs.Shemtov wrote: ↑29 Dec 2019 21:53I was thinking more along the lines of Mayan glyphs, with more emphasis on the syllabary partsangi39 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2019 13:12Sounds a bit like Linear B, although I suppose it depends on how "defective" you want the recipient language's orthography to be (especially with regards to tone).Shemtov wrote: ↑22 Dec 2019 07:38 Is the following system possible?:
A language with highly complex clusters borrows a syllabary/logography from a (C)V(C) language. The original language had more vowels than the recipient, so a Consonant + vowel-that-is-irrelevant syllable is used for single consonants, though not all consonants are written. As the recipient has tones and nasal vowels, words are distinguished by having a long, flattened logographic symbol, much like "Radicals" in Hanzi, over the word (it hints to the root's meaning), word breaks being marked by a new logographic symbol. As the rules are complex, only priests (and nobles?) can read and (maybe) write.
I think that was the general trend in Akkadian, which reduced the number of ideograms from Sumerian by over a half, and further in Hittite which reduced them by a half again. Thinking about it, Linear A, if I remember correctly, is though to have had around twice as many ideograms as Linear B.
The upside of something like Mayan is that there's syllabic synharmony and disharmony, which meant that CV syllables could be used to write CVC syllables without having to resort to a separate set of VC signs (which was the Sumerian and Akkadian method, IIRC). I mean, again, Linear B managed to do the same thing, but I think they used, for example CV-V-CV if they were represent a long vowel in a closed syllable (assuming eother vowel length or the coda was written at all), whereas Mayan wrote them explicitly, and just as CV-CV (so that's saves a sign).
Again, though, exactly how the syllabary is used to write the new language, with its more complex consonant clusters, will depend on to what extent the new writers can, or can be bothered, to fit the writing system to their own phonotactics (the Cypriot syllabary, for example, which was largely the same as Linear B in terms of structure, had a habit of writing more sounds, e.g. PO-RO, "foal" was written as PO-LO-SE in Cypriot, both representing /polos/. Linear B also tended not to represent diphthongs, so PO-RO could also be "foals", /poroi/, while I think this would have been written as PO-LO-I in Cypriot.
Anyway, yeah, it seems doable.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
I'm thinking that since the original language had more vowels than the new one, that the syllables with vowels that don't exist in the new language, are used as abjad like signs, so SE-KE-LI is read /skli/.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
-JRR Tolkien
- Man in Space
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- Location: Ohio
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
In a hieroglyphic-esque system (à la Mayan), assume a series of phonetic complements that can attach to the glyphs. Is it reasonable that these complements could begin to stand alone and form the basis of a syllabary, or is that implausible?
Twin Aster megathread
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
I don’t think it’s implausible but I think the way those phonetic compliments work might influence that. Are they large semi-independent and easily recognizable? Then probably. Are they small and difficult to distinguish from the main glyph? Probably not.
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre
You could have these compliments attatch to a dummy symantic-character.
A signature.
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- Location: Australia
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
I think I'm creating a system that I could promote as having 'Opposite capital letters'.
The lowercase letters are mostly written from the bottom to the top and down again and link into the next letter, a bit like Arabic, while the capital letters look like shorthand of the lowercase and start from the top and go down. And when a word doesn't start with a capital it indicates it is part of a compound. eg: topsy-turvy would be written Topsy turvy and all other start-of-word-letters would be capitals.
The lowercase letters are mostly written from the bottom to the top and down again and link into the next letter, a bit like Arabic, while the capital letters look like shorthand of the lowercase and start from the top and go down. And when a word doesn't start with a capital it indicates it is part of a compound. eg: topsy-turvy would be written Topsy turvy and all other start-of-word-letters would be capitals.
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
Lovely!!
You could have just used a single dot to get y from sh. The yogh shape is fine too, but the single dot would appeal to me as you already have dots as a feature, and when you have two dots meaning voicing, one dot could suggest approximants as if they were conceived as 'weakened' voiced consonants.
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
Here's my page for Nyjichun's, my main conlang, conscript - https://silvercat.neocities.org/nyji-writing.html. There is a formal and informal script - the formal is up. The informal is done but I need to get it scanned.
It's vaguely featural based on the position of the tongue, teeth, and lips, but were altered to accommodate the writing surface, which is a heavily grained bark which requires the avoidance of horizontal lines.
The vowels started as rotated arrows. I, u, and ɒ are modified versions of y, ɯ, and a respectively after being flipped.
Consonants are stacked. I've been doing the formal script in a 'monospaced' font. If handwritten or done with a more advanced system, the consonants at the bottom of the column would be half-width.
Here's my'ak (the apostrophe marks a syllable that starts with a vowel)
And here's a sentence
spoken Nyji: moŋ chunɯn βijy ŋazyvzɯ?
separated: moŋ chun-ɯn βi-jy ŋa-zyv-zɯ?
written: moŋ chunn βij zɯŋv
gloss: your cat-ACC that-NOM 3sg.SBJ-3sg.POBJ-Question
loose gloss: Is that your cat?
It's vaguely featural based on the position of the tongue, teeth, and lips, but were altered to accommodate the writing surface, which is a heavily grained bark which requires the avoidance of horizontal lines.
The vowels started as rotated arrows. I, u, and ɒ are modified versions of y, ɯ, and a respectively after being flipped.
Consonants are stacked. I've been doing the formal script in a 'monospaced' font. If handwritten or done with a more advanced system, the consonants at the bottom of the column would be half-width.
Here's my'ak (the apostrophe marks a syllable that starts with a vowel)
And here's a sentence
spoken Nyji: moŋ chunɯn βijy ŋazyvzɯ?
separated: moŋ chun-ɯn βi-jy ŋa-zyv-zɯ?
written: moŋ chunn βij zɯŋv
gloss: your cat-ACC that-NOM 3sg.SBJ-3sg.POBJ-Question
loose gloss: Is that your cat?
my pronouns: they/them or e/em/eirs/emself
Main conlang: Ŋyjichɯn. Other conlangs: Tsɑkø (naming language), Ie, Tynthna, Maanxmuʃt, Ylialis
All my conlangs
Conlanging blog posts
Main conlang: Ŋyjichɯn. Other conlangs: Tsɑkø (naming language), Ie, Tynthna, Maanxmuʃt, Ylialis
All my conlangs
Conlanging blog posts
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
Sentence enders/separators (denoted by four dots) and paragraph markers (parenthesis-looking things)
I took the paragraph marks from some unknown person's conscript sample:
https://i.imgur.com/A783lcr.jpg
I took the paragraph marks from some unknown person's conscript sample:
https://i.imgur.com/A783lcr.jpg
- Man in Space
- roman
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre
I am way, way too happy with how I’ve revised CT’s system of cuneiform.
I think I finally did it.
Five stroke angles (vertical plus 30 and 60 degrees off either way, no horizontals allowed), written on a 30-degree upward incline bottom-left to top-right.
I think I finally did it.
Spoiler:
Twin Aster megathread
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
- Man in Space
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- Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
- Location: Ohio
Re: Con-Script Development Centre
The first ten signs in the CT logosyllabic canon of the mode of Lemhár:
Syllable KA
Syllable KI
Syllable KU
Syllable HA
Syllable HI
Syllable HU
Syllable ḪA
Syllable ḪI
Syllable ḪU
Syllable SA
Syllable KA
Syllable KI
Syllable KU
Syllable HA
Syllable HI
Syllable HU
Syllable ḪA
Syllable ḪI
Syllable ḪU
Syllable SA
Twin Aster megathread
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Con-Script Development Centre
Man in Space, your cuneiform characters look like bagpipes!
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 88,000 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 88,000 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!