An auxlang to be understood not spoken

[Viorp]

As far as I know the most widly spoken language is Mandarin, but if we speak about written Chinese it is understood by like 1/5th of all humans understand the written alphabet.
And nearly 1/7th does speak english.
Spanish and Arabic each go for about 1/14th.

I think though that if you tried to combine more than 2 languages it owuld be ununderstandable by instinct.
Just thinking but making a language that in context could be understood by 1/3rd of humanity is a good start.

This is mostly a debate. But would not the perfect auxlang for that be a Chinese creole of English, with heavy empathis on latin descendant words?
The most important feature would be for Englishspeakers to understand the words and for chinese speakers the characters.
With keeping both these characteristics would it be possible to include some elelments that would make it easier to learn for arabic speakers?
(I'm giving Arabic a bigger emphasis as Spanish is an Indo - European language already)

Could such creole or osmething simmilat have ever existed in places like Hong Kong or Singapore?
Could such thing possibly spring into existance naturally?
Does anyone have an opinion this?

[Squall]

Mandarin is the most spoken language in number of native speakers, but it is still a regional language because it is spoken only in one country.
English is the most spoken language because of the number of non-native speakers.

I think if you an auxlang based on English with simplified grammar, removed irregular forms and the introduction of roots from Latin and Greek, the resulting language would be easy for 1/3 of the world (Europe, Latin America, North America and people that learn English). The world is big and you will have problems to include other big areas: China, India (if you exclude English), Arabian world, Southeastern Asia, Africa.

[Viorp]

Thats true.
But, to begin with the idea of an auxlang is impossible in the real world.

Also english would be an awful base for an auxlang :/
I believe an auxlang should have the most reduced vocabulary possible.
So it should be aglunative and very situational.
Yet have very clearly defined rules for creating words.

[Viorp]

Not to mention that english waaaaaaay to many sounds.

[Squall]

Also english would be an awful base for an auxlang :/
I believe an auxlang should have the most reduced vocabulary possible.
So it should be aglunative and very situational.
Yet have very clearly defined rules for creating words.

You can use a subset of the English vocabulary and use affixes freely.
In English, the suffix -ness turns an adjective into noun, but you cannot turn 'strong' into 'strongness'. The auxlang could allow it.

If you know the Mandarin grammar and use Anglo-Romance vocabulary, you may have a good idea.

However, if you want an ideogram language and want to use Mandarin symbols, you can increase the number of people that would understand, because many China's neighbors are familiar with the ideograms. However, it is the worst thing for people that are not familiar with the ideograms such Westerners.
Your auxlang could use a limited number of basic characters (Japanese has 2136 Chinese characters) plus special characters for foreigner terms and grammar.

Not to mention that english waaaaaaay to many sounds.

"An auxlang to be understood not spoken"
Therefore, it should not matter.

[Lambuzhao]

So, is this primarily to be a written language?

With regard to written languages, the best candidate would be an logographic writing system like Chinese Hanzi or like Sumerian cuneiform. Each symbol 'speaks for itself', and could be pronounced any number of ways, or in no way at all, and still be understood.

Hanzi enjoys a robust readership outside of China, first and foremost in the guise of Japanese kanji, but also historically in Korea and Vietnam as well.

Sumerian cuneiform was adopted in bulk by the Akkadians.

So, one could consider a logographic writing system with set meanings, regardless of regional pronunciation.

[Keenir]

I think though that if you tried to combine more than 2 languages it owuld be ununderstandable by instinct.

Instinct? appealing to the bioprogram or something?

Could such creole or osmething simmilat have ever existed in places like Hong Kong or Singapore?
Could such thing possibly spring into existance naturally?

could it potentially exist? yes.

has it existed? not sure.

Also english would be an awful base for an auxlang :/

um, why?

[qzorum]

Last summer I made a catechoradical language based on Mandarin, English, Spanish, Hindi, Arabic, and Malay. A lot of the design goals were auxlangy - exceptionless compositional grammar, simplistic and neutral phonology - but of course I never had any aspirations for it except to have something to write in without breaking a sweat. I guess it split its bases a little more than what you're proposing, but to be honest I don't think there's any way to develop a grammar and vocabulary that's immediately intelligible to speakers of any two languages that aren't closely related.

Anyway, you might be interested in Blissymbolics. It's exclusively written, and as much as possible based on intuitive, compositional ideograms. I wouldn't say a text in Blissymbolics is immediately understandable either, but it's politically neutral and - I imagine - pretty easy to pick up.

[Viorp]

The main idea is that when spoken an eanglish speaking person understands it and when written a chinese speaker would.

Sadly I don't know for how much of a reduction of the Chinese aphabet that would allow.

[cntrational]

Re: Chinese's speaker count coming up in auxlang threads

Remember that English is the primary lingua franca of India, the other country with a billion people.

[qzorum]

Remember that English is the primary lingua franca of India, the other country with a billion people.

Shh... when you start invoking such practical arguments as this, you realize that English is already the perfect auxlang....

[Viorp]

Yea... but well India is the type of ocuntry where only the rich people speak english.
It is actually 125,226,449/1,210,000,000 you don't ned godlike math to see that this is about 11%

Can you really call it the "lingua franca" of india if 11% of the speak it...

And no english is bad for an auxlang from a practical standpoint. As for a slav, it has one of the hardest pronounciations I've seen in my life and probably the hardest western alphabet.
And fucking 17! Fucking 17 time forms. Fucking 17!

And it is not agltanitive which makes the amount of words you need to learn like 5 times bigger because of that.

[cntrational]

Yea... but well India is the type of ocuntry where only the rich people speak english.
It is actually 125,226,449/1,210,000,000 you don't ned godlike math to see that this is about 11%

Can you really call it the "lingua franca" of india if 11% of the speak it...

did you know: I actually live there

That statistic is fluent speakers. You don't need all of English to use it. Nor do you need it if you never leave your home village, but you wouldn't need an auxlang either

[Xing]

Can you really call it the "lingua franca" of india if 11% of the speak it...

Yes, if it's the language that people use to communicate across local language/dialect borders.

[Keenir]

Yea... but well India is the type of ocuntry where only the rich people speak english.

Not sure if I should ask you to define "rich" or something else.

And it is not agltanitive which makes the amount of words you need to learn like 5 times bigger because of that.

isn't it a good thing that it (or an Englishlike auxland) isn't agglutinative?

[Squall]

And no english is bad for an auxlang from a practical standpoint. As for a slav, it has one of the hardest pronounciations I've seen in my life

I agree. A language that has a lot of vowels and th-sounds, such as Germanic, has difficult pronunciation for speakers of languages that have few vowels.
English has many consonants as well. Some Asians have problems with fricatives: f z sh.

and probably the hardest western alphabet.

It is the worst problem of the written form. However, it keeps a lot of the etymological spelling. Romance-language speakers love the true cognates, although the pronunciation is often too different. It is a good strategy for "An auxlang to be understood not spoken".

Yea... but well India is the type of ocuntry where only the rich people speak english.
It is actually 125,226,449/1,210,000,000 you don't ned godlike math to see that this is about 11%

Can you really call it the "lingua franca" of india if 11% of the speak it...

Each area in India has a different language, but most people speak only their native language. If they need communication with other Indian areas or get education, the language will be English.

And fucking 17! Fucking 17 time forms. Fucking 17!

What is the problem of time forms? A high number is good because it makes the language more accurate.
You can represent those 17 time forms in your native language and many time forms may be unnoticed because of adverbials or special verbs.
English has more time forms:
I will start reading this book tomorrow.
English does not have the inchoative aspect, but the verb 'start' informs the inchoative aspect.

And it is not agltanitive which makes the amount of words you need to learn like 5 times bigger because of that.

Yes. Derivation is a good way to modify the meaning without creating new words roots.

[MrKrov]

Uh, derivation creates new words.

[Salmoneus]

The main idea is that when spoken an eanglish speaking person understands it and when written a chinese speaker would.

Sadly I don't know for how much of a reduction of the Chinese aphabet that would allow.

Oh, that's easy. Speak English, but translate it to Chinese when you write it down. Simple.

It's also the only possible answer to your problem as phrased, because there is no other language what most English-speakers will understand when spoken.

[And English has two time forms. Past and non-past, and if you need to you can get by without the past.]

[DesEsseintes]

Yea... but well India is the type of ocuntry where only the rich people speak english.
It is actually 125,226,449/1,210,000,000 you don't ned godlike math to see that this is about 11%

Can you really call it the "lingua franca" of india if 11% of the speak it...

did you know: I actually live there

So what? So only you get to state facts about India?

Mental note: The next time anybody says anything about China, I'll rebuke them for daring to mention it without consulting me first.

[Lao Kou]

Mental note: The next time anybody says anything about China, I'll rebuke them for daring to mention it without consulting me first.

Ahem.

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