Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

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Omzinesý wrote:How should I express denominal PPs? 1 looks the most natural - all Germanic languages have it - but 2 and 3 are more interesting.

1. a PP following its head just like in English. The genitive preposition o behaves that way.
en man in de haus 'a man in the house'

2. PP precedes its head just alike an adjective
en in de haus man 'a man in the house'

3. PP followes its head but the preposition is different from that of adverbial PPs. Historically it derives from genitive o and the preposition in question
en man oin de haus 'a man in the house'
I like the second one. It looks as if Germanic languages (especially German) should be that way.
Ein In-dem-Haus Mann, sounds legit [:D]
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

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Omzinesý wrote:How should I express denominal PPs? 1 looks the most natural - all Germanic languages have it - but 2 and 3 are more interesting.

1. a PP following its head just like in English. The genitive preposition o behaves that way.
en man in de haus 'a man in the house'

2. PP precedes its head just alike an adjective
en in de haus man 'a man in the house'

3. PP followes its head but the preposition is different from that of adverbial PPs. Historically it derives from genitive o and the preposition in question
en man oin de haus 'a man in the house'
2 is what happens in Mandarin Chinese I'm pretty sure:

一个在家里的男人
yi1 ge zai4 jia1 li3 de nan2ren2
one CL at house in CONN man
a man in the house

vs.

一个高兴的男人
yi1 ge gao1xing4 de nan2ren2
one CL happy CONN man
a happy man
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Creyeditor wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:How should I express denominal PPs? 1 looks the most natural - all Germanic languages have it - but 2 and 3 are more interesting.

1. a PP following its head just like in English. The genitive preposition o behaves that way.
en man in de haus 'a man in the house'

2. PP precedes its head just alike an adjective
en in de haus man 'a man in the house'

3. PP followes its head but the preposition is different from that of adverbial PPs. Historically it derives from genitive o and the preposition in question
en man oin de haus 'a man in the house'
I like the second one. It looks as if Germanic languages (especially German) should be that way.
Ein In-dem-Haus Mann, sounds legit [:D]
Out of topic: if German were that way, should it be in-dem, not im?
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

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Omzinesý wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:How should I express denominal PPs? 1 looks the most natural - all Germanic languages have it - but 2 and 3 are more interesting.

1. a PP following its head just like in English. The genitive preposition o behaves that way.
en man in de haus 'a man in the house'

2. PP precedes its head just alike an adjective
en in de haus man 'a man in the house'

3. PP followes its head but the preposition is different from that of adverbial PPs. Historically it derives from genitive o and the preposition in question
en man oin de haus 'a man in the house'
I like the second one. It looks as if Germanic languages (especially German) should be that way.
Ein In-dem-Haus Mann, sounds legit [:D]
Out of topic: if German were that way, should it be in-dem, not im?
Depends on the prosody. If the article would be stressed ('demonstrative' use of the article) it would be In-dem-Haus Mann, if it would be unstressed ('definite' use of the article) it would Im-Haus Mann. So if you are talking about this very specific house, 'in dem', otherwise 'im'.
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote:Future can be expressed with the present or auxiliary sca (cognate to English shall).

(3a) Ek muc mye fren morgi. ~ (3b) Ek sca mucn mye fren morgi. ‘I (will) meet my friend tomorrow.’
I'll change the future tense.

Future is expressed by verb gan 'to go'.
If gan is used as a motion verb, its verbal complement takes particple szu.
(1) Ek ga szu scemn. 'I'm going swimming.'

As the future auxiliary, it does not take the particle.
(2) Ek ga scemn. 'I will swim.'

The past form of sca, scu, was used as would in English.
In conditional sentences, it's actually not needed at all.
Particles 'if' vs. 'when' take care of the distinction.
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by ixals »

Creyeditor wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:[...]
2. PP precedes its head just alike an adjective
en in de haus man 'a man in the house'
[...]
I like the second one. It looks as if Germanic languages (especially German) should be that way.
Ein In-dem-Haus Mann, sounds legit [:D]
Maybe a bit too late, but I agree on that the second one is really nice. [:D] To me, it sounds grammatically wrong and I don't know how easily that change in word order could happen on its own. I'm not too familiar with Siglisc (haven't read all of it) but is it possible that the two nouns next to each other in "en in de haus man" might be confused with a noun compounds if *hausman exists? [:S]

However, I know that German often does something like "Ein im Haus seiender Mann" so the active present participle of the copula could transform into a rare case of a suffix? Based on skryvn (writing) and syn (to be) I guess that participle would be close to syn or something like that so that could turn into -sen and you'd get "en in de haus(s)en man"! [:D] [<3]
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by Omzinesý »

ixals wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:[...]
2. PP precedes its head just alike an adjective
en in de haus man 'a man in the house'
[...]
I like the second one. It looks as if Germanic languages (especially German) should be that way.
Ein In-dem-Haus Mann, sounds legit [:D]
Maybe a bit too late, but I agree on that the second one is really nice. [:D] To me, it sounds grammatically wrong and I don't know how easily that change in word order could happen on its own. I'm not too familiar with Siglisc (haven't read all of it) but is it possible that the two nouns next to each other in "en in de haus man" might be confused with a noun compounds if *hausman exists? [:S]

However, I know that German often does something like "Ein im Haus seiender Mann" so the active present participle of the copula could transform into a rare case of a suffix? Based on skryvn (writing) and syn (to be) I guess that participle would be close to syn or something like that so that could turn into -sen and you'd get "en in de haus(s)en man"! [:D] [<3]
Yes, you are right. 'Being' would be syn - I may change the written form to sain.
Siglisc is though not very morphology-heavy, and I think that the development of a suffix in such a peripheral function as adjectival PPs wouldn't be very probable.

Maybe I don't have to choose one alternative.
En in de haus syn man is grammatical. Even en in de haus fren man 'a man that would be in the house' would do.
In some context basic en man in de haus might be better.
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Compounding

Compounsing is common in Siglisc, as it is in all Germanic languages.
The root morphemes are systematically separated by - in writing.

The first root can also work as a 'classifier'.
En kop-te 'a cup of tea'

Incorporation also appears, though it's not very systematic and the incorporated noun are always non-specific.
Te-drenkn 'to drink tea'
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:Future can be expressed with the present or auxiliary sca (cognate to English shall).

(3a) Ek muc mye fren morgi. ~ (3b) Ek sca mucn mye fren morgi. ‘I (will) meet my friend tomorrow.’
I'll change the future tense.

Future is expressed by verb gan 'to go'.
If gan is used as a motion verb, its verbal complement takes particple szu.
(1) Ek ga szu scemn. 'I'm going swimming.'

As the future auxiliary, it does not take the particle.
(2) Ek ga scemn. 'I will swim.'

The past form of sca, scu, was used as would in English.
In conditional sentences, it's actually not needed at all.
Particles 'if' vs. 'when' take care of the distinction.
Conditional conjunctions/ question words

Factual time: ven
Factual cause: vaug (<- va+veg) 'why, bacause'
Non-factual time: ner 'when' 'if'
Contra-factual: ef 'if'

Neither the main nor subordinate clause has modal marking in its verb
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Political system

The parliament of Sigland is called De Szat-ratri and an MP is szat-ratre

Szat 'state'
Rat 'a piece of advice'
-re the agent suffix
-ri its collective

There closest correspondent of president is De Scepe-hoft 'the head of foreign policy'.

Scepe 'foreign policy' derives from scep 'ship'
Hoft 'head'

The head of the parliament is called De Hafe-hoft 'harbour-head'

There are words like:
Presdent
Prim-ministre
Kung
Etc. for roreign countries
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

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Adjectives

I realized I haven't said anything about adjectives.

Basic positive adjectives do not inflect.

En glad man gai op gange.
'A happy man is walking in a footpath.'

De man s glad.
'The man is happy.'


The comparative is formed with the particle me 'more' and the superlative with mesz 'most'.

Some adjective have irregular comparatives and superlatives.
beta 'better', besz 'best'
[the list will be continued]

The old agglutinative comparative suffix -er -> a has become a absolute comparative that means something like 'rather, quite'. It's not very frequent however.
guda 'rather good'
glada 'quite glad'
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

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Back to this old project :)

I'm adding a new diphthong /ei/ as an umlauted pair of /ai/.
The problem is just that the West-Germanic /i:/ -> /ai/, which also appears in Siglisc, is apparently a quite late sound change.
German has umlaut pairs like haus 'house' - häuser 'houses' but nothing like that happens with /ai/.
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by eldin raigmore »

Do your modifiers (adjectives and adverbs) have an equative (“as .... as”) degree of comparison?
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by Omzinesý »

eldin raigmore wrote: 12 Jul 2018 02:42 Do your modifiers (adjectives and adverbs) have an equative (“as .... as”) degree of comparison?
Of course.
I think it would be something like:
X s gval glad as Y. 'X is as happy as Y.'

gval deriving fron equal
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

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Word-final stressed /i:/ is written <ij>.

en kopi [ɛŋ'kɔbi] 'a copy'
kopij [kɔ'pi:] 'copies (v)'

/'i:/ is the most productive derivational verb suffix. It's a cognate to English -ise/-ize, German -ieren, and Swedish -era. Its infinitive is <ijn>, which is pronounced [i:n] in vernacular but [i:jᵊn] in sophisticated speech.

testijn 'to test'
heusijn 'to live in an urban area'
sprakijn 'to speak a language'
haiijn 'to greet'
...
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote: 12 Dec 2016 22:21 A short post:

mat 'food' (cognate of English meat)
met 'eat'
Edit: Met is by the way homonymic with 'would make': mak 'makes' - mat 'made' - met 'would make'
'Cooking' cannot be expressed by verb mak.
Not it anymore.
Edit: It is taken to a metaphoric use.
De kansa it my. 'The cancer is eating me.'
De firm it myi all geld.' 'The firm is spending all my money.'

So it means something like 'use, consume, spend, slowly destroy'
Edit:

met means 'to feed' (Swedish mata)
met sy means 'to eat' literally 'to feed oneself'
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote: 23 Jan 2017 22:29
Omzinesý wrote:Future can be expressed with the present or auxiliary sca (cognate to English shall).

(3a) Ek muc mye fren morgi. ~ (3b) Ek sca mucn mye fren morgi. ‘I (will) meet my friend tomorrow.’
I'll change the future tense.

Future is expressed by verb gan 'to go'.
If gan is used as a motion verb, its verbal complement takes particple szu.
(1) Ek ga szu scemn. 'I'm going swimming.'

As the future auxiliary, it does not take the particle.
(2) Ek ga scemn. 'I will swim.'

The past form of sca, scu, was used as would in English.
In conditional sentences, it's actually not needed at all.
Particles 'if' vs. 'when' take care of the distinction.
The past form of gan is gi , sporadic shortening compared to German ging or Swedish gick. /g/ does analogically appear instead of /j/.
Without sze it means 'would'.

(4) Ek gi szu scemn. 'I went swimming.'
(5) Ek gi scemn. 'I would swim.'
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

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The singular imperative is alike the present form. Of the verb "sain" 'to be' the long form "sai" is used instead of "s".
The plural imperative is alike the infinitive.

(1) Duh de! 'Do it (sg)'
(2) Duhn de! 'Do it (pl)'

Some Swedish dialects have -n as the plural imperative marker.
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Re: Sylisc (Germanic lang) 0.4

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote: 22 May 2016 17:17 Verbs

Verbs do not agree person. There three tenses, with different time references, present, past and pluperfect. All of the tenses have a finite and infinite form. The infinite form is formed by adding suffix -n to the respective finite form. The infinite form is historically a merger of the infinitive and the perfect participle.

The (finite) present is the stem of the verb.

Few verbs have a simple past form. Most verbs form their past form as a complex form. The past is formed by auxiliary is haun 'to have' and the infinite form of the main verb. In narratives, present forms are however used instead of complex past forms.
Ek hau gan 'I have gone/I went.'

The pluperfect is formed with the simple past of haun and the (past) infinite.
Ek ha jan. 'I had gone.'
Ek ha fran. 'I had been.'

The strong verbs have different present, simple past, and conjunctive forms.

present, simple past, conjunctive

Suppletive:
sy/s*, fra, fre 'be' (sporadic: var -> vra -> fra)
vit, vesz, visz 'know'

Ablaut:
duh, dah, deh 'do' (<h> is just an orthographic means to differentiate da 'there' from dah 'did' and de 'the/it' from deh 'would do')
can, con, ceud 'feel'
mosz, mosz, meus 'have to'
vend, vand, - 'become'
tenk, tank, dynk 'think that (as an auxiliary of opinion'
ska, sku, sku 'future, conditional'
kan, kon, keud 'be able'
can, con, ceud 'feel'
mosz, mosz, meus 'have to'
hau, hat, het 'have'

Last consonant of the present form lost before the past suffix:
mak, mat, met 'make'
mag, mad, med, 'like'
szag, szad, szed 'be located'
sag, sad, sed 'say'
vel [vɛl], vehl [vɛ:l], - 'want'

Historical ablaut causes palatalization of the first vowel and analogy destroys the ablaut.
ga, ja, je 'go'

*Sy is used when the copula is stressed, s when unsressed. The present infinite is syn.
So, I'm updating the irregular verbs - those with the simple past form.

The following verbs have all three: present, simple past, and conjunctive.
Present-past-conjunctive
s/sai - fra - fre 'be'
hau - ha - he 'have'
du - da - de 'do'
kom - kam - kem* 'come, have to'

* 'would come' is usually "gi komn" but 'should' is "kem".

The following verbs have just two forms: present and simple past. The simple past is formed like with all verbs: "gi + the infinitive"
Present-past
ga - gi 'go, will - went, would'
vega - vegi 'leave'
can - con 'feel'
kan - kon 'can'
vend - vand 'become'
tenk - tank 'think'
vil - vel 'want'
vet - vesz 'know'
begin - began 'begin'

The following verbs are historically "weak", (-g + de => dde => d). In principle, they have conjunctive forms formed by umlaut, but their use varies, that is both "med" and "gi madn" appear.
mag - mad (-med) 'like'
mak - mat (-met) 'make'
sag - sad (-sed) 'say'
Edit: frag - frad - fred 'ask'
szag - szad (-szed) 'be located'
braug - braud (-breud) 'use, usually do'

mosz 'must' appears in the same form in both present and past.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Jul 2019 16:25, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Siglisc (Germanic lang) 4.0

Post by Omzinesý »

I always decide to translate something into my conlangs and never get the translations ready. But lemme have an attempt again. This is Ossicone's old cat story. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=636 Translating into an analytic Germanic lang isn't the most difficult job.

De kat an de fisk
'The Cat and the Fish.'

De fra en kat.
it be.PST INDEF cat
'There was a cat.'

Si fra lid an vait.
she be.PST little and white
'She was small and white.'

Ven si opvak, fra si al* hungri.
when she wake.up be.PST she vey hungry
'When she woke up she was very hungry!'

Enso gi si szu suk aft mat.
so she go.PST she search after food
'So she went looking for some food.'

She suk bako de ci an find en ikol.
she search behind the tree and find IINDEF acorn
'She looked behind the tree and found an acorn.'

Ba cat met sai isc ikol!
but cat feed REFL NEG acorn
'But cats don't eat acorns!'

Si suk unda de szen an find en kopa.
she search under SG:DEF stone and find SG:INDEF bug
'She looked under the rock and found a bug.'

Ba cat met sai isc kopa!
but cat feed REFL NEG bug
But cats don't eat bugs!

Si suk in de haus an se nagting all intressi aup de tabl.
she search in SG:DEF house and see something very interesting on SG:DEF table
She looked in the house and saw something very interesting on the table.

De fra an fisk! An si elsce szu met sai fisk!
it was a fish and she love to feed Xself fish
It was a fish! And she loved to eat fish!

So she jumped on to the table and grabbed the fish.
Uh oh! A person saw her take the fish.
The little cat jump out the window and hid in the field.
She happily ate the fish.
But now she was very sleepy.

*al 'eveything' is also used as an intensifier.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Jul 2019 15:11, edited 1 time in total.
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