What I have been working on

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Larryrl
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What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Well, it's been a while since my last post. For now I am working on a totally new conlang idea called chokodoko.

It uses the consonants b ch d f g h j k l m n p q r s t v w y z

It also uses the five vowels a e i o and u

Here's where it gets tricky

ch d k and l automatically have the letter o as the following vowel of the (C)(V) pair or the (C)(C)(V) in the case of the ch.
f g h and j automatically have the letter a as the following vowel
n p and v automatically have the letter e as the following vowel
q has two vowels after it u and e
r s t and m automatically have the letter i as the following vowel
w y z and b automatically have the letter u as the following vowel

now comes the fun part.

In translating words from English or from other languages into my alphabet, the following applies:

c becomes f d becomes g k becomes h L becomes j n becomes w p becomes y
q becomes z v becomes b r becomes c s becomes d t becomes k m becomes L
w becomes r y becomes s z becomes t b becomes m f becomes n g becomes p
h becomes q and j becomes v

so the word CARRY is written SC-FF and is spelled as SI-CHOZHŬ

The ZHŬ is pronounced like the s in pleasure followed by the ow in cow sort of zhow. Now this part of a word only occurs where there is a double consonant. The thing is it can be any double consonant from bb to zz.

Since each consonant has a specific following vowel, we get a cool effect of not having to write any vowels apart from the ZHŬ which must be written. So it's kinda like Hebrew was written using only consonants before they added vowel points. Once you learn which vowels follow which consonants, you have no trouble. And, there is only 20 consonants in the alphabet, and 5 vowels which are spoken but never written except in the word list I am creating in Excel. It's like Spanish, how it goes a be ce che de etc. Well in chokodoko how you spell the letter, is how you say the letter. it is like cho do ko and lo and so on. The vowels are pronounced how they would be in Spanish the Zh is only use with the Ŭ, and no other time.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Frislander »

Several things here. Firstly, could you present you phonology in a nice chart with proper symbols please? Secondly, if <ch> is a single consonant then the syllable structure of <cho> is (C)V, not (C)(C)V (Also what do <ch> and <j> represent soundwise?). Thirdly, the idea of certain vowels following certain consonants is great (have you taken your inspiration from Japanese here?), but your choices of combinations make little phonetic sense: why is the only vowel that /t/ can be followed by /i/, where it would be most likely to be palatalised to /t͡ʃ/. Or why is /w/ only followable by /u/, when the resulting syllable is barely distinguishable from just /u/, causing most languages to forbid it? Finally your "translation" rules for English words only make sense if this is a code of English, which doesn't qualify as a conlang at all, really. If this is a true conlang, on the other hand, then the English words are not being "translated" but adapted to fit your language's phonology.
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Larryrl wrote: It uses the consonants b ch d f g h j k l m n p q r s t v w y z
Bot then . . .
The ZHŬ is pronounced like the s in pleasure followed by the ow in cow sort of zhow.
Why didn't you list ZH among your consonants?
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

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31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Frislander wrote:Several things here. Firstly, could you present you phonology in a nice chart with proper symbols please? Secondly, if <ch> is a single consonant then the syllable structure of <cho> is (C)V, not (C)(C)V (Also what do <ch> and <j> represent soundwise?). Thirdly, the idea of certain vowels following certain consonants is great (have you taken your inspiration from Japanese here?), but your choices of combinations make little phonetic sense: why is the only vowel that /t/ can be followed by /i/, where it would be most likely to be palatalised to /t͡ʃ/. Or why is /w/ only followable by /u/, when the resulting syllable is barely distinguishable from just /u/, causing most languages to forbid it? Finally your "translation" rules for English words only make sense if this is a code of English, which doesn't qualify as a conlang at all, really. If this is a true conlang, on the other hand, then the English words are not being "translated" but adapted to fit your language's phonology.

I did not do a phonology chart because I have not ever done one before and am not sure how to start it, or how to do it. I'd be glad to do one if someone knowledgeable such as yourself would give me an example to go by.

The Ch is pronounced like the ch in church. The J is a J like in the word jungle.

As far as why certain vowels follow certain consonants, I just divided the consonants up evenly except for the zh which was added last, and ended up with 5 sets of 4 and the zh, so I gave each set a different following vowel and gave the zh a u breve which in my phonology pronounces like the ow in cow.

By doing that, I knew I could just write the consonants with dashes to break up the long words and use the vowels only when reading or speaking the words.

As far as the translation as I called it goes, I simply wrote a program to convert any word from any language that uses the roman alphabet to be converted to my language using the rules I explained in my post, so that I have a basis to start with. From there I add or subtract letters from the translated word to get just the pronunciation I want. I have to often times shorten it as the chokodoko words are twice as long as the natlang words because each letter is a (c)(v) pair.

I will try to work up a phonology after I do more research on how to do it.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Khemehekis wrote:
Larryrl wrote: It uses the consonants b ch d f g h j k l m n p q r s t v w y z
Bot then . . .
The ZHŬ is pronounced like the s in pleasure followed by the ow in cow sort of zhow.
Why didn't you list ZH among your consonants?
because I'm just not that bright [:)]
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

So my phonology if I understand it right looks like this.

b bee, sub
k/q skill, quack
ch/t chain, nature
d dog
f tough, photo
g grand
h hand
j judge, gin
l laugh
m moon
n note
p pig, spot, top
r slightly trilled as in Spanish
s sock, lass, city
t tea, stick, let
v voice, of
w/u wet, quiet
y yacht
z zoo, prose
zh measure, beige, seizure

as far as the plosive and fricative stuff, I still don't understand it. but these are the consonant sounds, and the vowels are as in Latin and Spanish and are pronounced like this are there three or two.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Frislander »

If you want a chart, how about

/p t t͡ʃ k/ <p t ch k>
/b d d͡ʒ g/ <b d j g>
/f s h/ <f s h>
/v z ʒ/ <v z zh>
/m n/ <m n>
/w l j/ <w l y>
/ɾ/ <r>

/a e i o u/ <a e i o u>
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Ahzoh »

Maybe you realize this, or you don't, but, given presented information, your language is essentially English with different words.
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Ahzoh wrote:Maybe you realize this, or you don't, but your language is essentially English but with different words.
No I didn't know. I make up some of the words from scratch, or from pieces of this word or that word in this language or that one. Sometimes I combine letters from three or 4 different languages then translate it into my alphabet and no loan words are ever left the way they are translated from the natlang, or natlangs. That is the reason I do not feel that it is a natlang with different words, is because the resulting words are all consonants as far as the writing goes, and they will not reverse and go back to the same word as it was when the process started. The consonants that the program generates for a given word whether English, Russian or whatever is just a estimation of how the word would look in my alphabet before I begin the actual hands on modification process.

Example The word for color is C-FJ which becomes Cho-Faja.
Had I left it as it was before the conversion it would have been r-cl which would be ri-cholo.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Last edited by Larryrl on 02 Oct 2016 23:59, edited 1 time in total.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

These are my affixes as they are right now

ENDING SPELLING USE PRONUNCIATION
C CŬ PRESENT TENSE LIKE THE WORD CHOW
B BŬ PAST TENSE LIKE THE WORD BOW
M MŬ FUTURE TENSE LIKE THE MOW IN THE COUNTRY SONG ELVIRA
J JŬ CONDITIONAL MOOD LIKE THE JOW IN THE WORD JOWL
K KŬ IMPERATIVE MOOD LIKE THE ENGLISH WORD COW
Y YŬ INFINITIVE MOOD LIKE THE WORD YOW
D DŬ POSSESSION LIKE THE WORD DOW ADDED TO A PRONOUN TO SHOW POSSESSION
N NŬ PLURAL LIKE THE WORD NOW
T TŬ TOOL LIKE THE TOW OF THE WORD TOWEL
F FŬ FEMININE LIKE THE FOW IN FOWL
S SŬ SLANG EXPRESSION LIKE THE WORD SOW
P PŬ TERM OF ENDEARMENT LIKE THE WORD POUCH WITHOUT THE CH
G GŬ MACHINE LIKE THE "GOU" IN THE WORD GOUGE
D DŬ ADJECTIVE LIKE THE WORD DOW ADDED TO A PRONOUN TO SHOW POSSESSION
R RŬ ADVERB LIKE THE ROU IN THE WORD ROUTE BUT WITH A TRILLED R
H HŬ INLAW LIKE THE WORD HOW
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Frislander wrote:If you want a chart, how about

/p t t͡ʃ k/ <p t ch k>
/b d d͡ʒ g/ <b d j g>
/f s h/ <f s h>
/v z ʒ/ <v z zh>
/m n/ <m n>
/w l j/ <w l y>
/ɾ/ <r>

/a e i o u/ <a e i o u>

Thanks man I greatly appreciate it.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Xing »

Does the language have any grammar?
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Larryrl wrote: S SŬ SLANG EXPRESSION LIKE THE WORD SOW
I was thinking this could be "Reap what you sow", but considering all the other English words you're using as examples, I'm going to assume this is "sow" as in female pig.
R RŬ ADVERB LIKE THE ROU IN THE WORD ROUTE BUT WITH A TRILLED R
In my dialect "route" has /u/ (meaning it rhymes with "boot"). How about "rowdy"?
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by elemtilas »

Larryrl wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:Maybe you realize this, or you don't, but your language is essentially English but with different words.
No I didn't know. I make up some of the words from scratch, or from pieces of this word or that word in this language or that one. Sometimes I combine letters from three or 4 different languages then translate it into my alphabet and no loan words are ever left the way they are translated from the natlang, or natlangs. That is the reason I do not feel that it is a natlang with different words, is because the resulting words are all consonants as far as the writing goes, and they will not reverse and go back to the same word as it was when the process started. The consonants that the program generates for a given word whether English, Russian or whatever is just a estimation of how the word would look in my alphabet before I begin the actual hands on modification process.
I think what Ahzoh is getting at is in your first post. The one where you "translate" English words by running them through a cypher to arrive at a Chokodoko word: "In translating words from English or from other languages into my alphabet, the following applies". We haven't seen any grammar yet, so can't really say whether it's a relex or a cipher or what.

I can only imagine that one could easily reverse engineer the English word by simply reversing the process in the chart you gave in the first post.

If w > r; l > j; m > l; r > c; t > k then walmart becomes RaJLaVK then delete the English vowels yielding RJLVK then apply the vowel rules to get RIJALOVEKO. Can this not be reversed by simply deleting the Chokodoko vowels & reversing the consonant equivalence? That would yield WLMRT. Not too difficult to reconstruct what vowels go in there, though other words might be more difficult!

I'm sure this is what he means by "English with other words". It's basically a substitution cypher.
Example The word for color is C-FJ which becomes Cho-Faja.
Had I left it as it was before the conversion it would have been r-cl which would be ri-cholo.
I think I must be missing something. Why isn't COLOR "FAJAKO". Is it kind of like Inverse Pig Latin, where in stead of placing the first consonant at the end, you place the final syllable at the front? FAJAKO > KO-FAJA? Reversing KO-FAJA or CHO-FAJA would yield "_C_L_R_" in English. A much less easy job: is it "clear" or "colour" or "eclair"?
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Axiem »

Larryrl wrote:These are my affixes as they are right now

ENDING SPELLING USE PRONUNCIATION
C CŬ PRESENT TENSE LIKE THE WORD CHOW
B BŬ PAST TENSE LIKE THE WORD BOW
M MŬ FUTURE TENSE LIKE THE MOW IN THE COUNTRY SONG ELVIRA
J JŬ CONDITIONAL MOOD LIKE THE JOW IN THE WORD JOWL
K KŬ IMPERATIVE MOOD LIKE THE ENGLISH WORD COW
Y YŬ INFINITIVE MOOD LIKE THE WORD YOW
D DŬ POSSESSION LIKE THE WORD DOW ADDED TO A PRONOUN TO SHOW POSSESSION
N NŬ PLURAL LIKE THE WORD NOW
T TŬ TOOL LIKE THE TOW OF THE WORD TOWEL
F FŬ FEMININE LIKE THE FOW IN FOWL
S SŬ SLANG EXPRESSION LIKE THE WORD SOW
P PŬ TERM OF ENDEARMENT LIKE THE WORD POUCH WITHOUT THE CH
G GŬ MACHINE LIKE THE "GOU" IN THE WORD GOUGE
D DŬ ADJECTIVE LIKE THE WORD DOW ADDED TO A PRONOUN TO SHOW POSSESSION
R RŬ ADVERB LIKE THE ROU IN THE WORD ROUTE BUT WITH A TRILLED R
H HŬ INLAW LIKE THE WORD HOW
A thing that was pointed out to me as a youngster when I first presented a conlang phonology this way: knowing what you mean requires us to be familiar with the dialect of English you speak. It's lucky you haven't mentioned anything like "the o in cot" or "the e in pen", because different people pronounce those differently.

Also, by saying "it sounds like <word>" requires me to know how to pronounce that word in the first place. For words like "bow", "sow", and "route", there are multiple possibilities (route in my dialect, for instance switches between /ɹuːt/ and /ɹaʊt/ depending on the phase of the moon). And for things like "mow in the country song elvira", I haven't the foggiest idea what you're referring to.

It was really hammered in my head when I read the appendix to Lord of the Rings, and Tolkien's description of Elvish phonology follows this very pattern, and it's like "pronounced like the 'a' in the north", and unless you happen to be intimately familiar with the dialects of English as they were spoken in England in the 1950s-ish, you will have no idea what he's actually referring to.

This is just, ultimately, to point out that IPA was developed for a reason: it allows clear, (relatively) unambiguous communication of sounds. I would highly, highly recommend you at least learn some of it if you plan on being involved in conlanging communities. If nothing else, start with Wikipedia, and if you need help typing it, there are tools out there.

Also, looking at the other languages/phonologies people have posted here or elsewhere can give you a good rough-in for how to possibly do something. It's okay if you're a little rough and figuring out what you're doing. Many people are more than willing to help out. :)




As for actual language feedback, I agree with the assessments already given: what's the grammar look like?
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Axiem wrote: (route in my dialect, for instance switches between /ɹuːt/ and /ɹaʊt/ depending on the phase of the moon).
In my dialect, it's always /ɹut/.
And for things like "mow in the country song elvira", I haven't the foggiest idea what you're referring to.
Maybe he's thinking of the songs that go "Papa oo mow mow" and such?
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

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31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Frislander »

Axiem wrote:
Spoiler:
Larryrl wrote:These are my affixes as they are right now

ENDING SPELLING USE PRONUNCIATION
C CŬ PRESENT TENSE LIKE THE WORD CHOW
B BŬ PAST TENSE LIKE THE WORD BOW
M MŬ FUTURE TENSE LIKE THE MOW IN THE COUNTRY SONG ELVIRA
J JŬ CONDITIONAL MOOD LIKE THE JOW IN THE WORD JOWL
K KŬ IMPERATIVE MOOD LIKE THE ENGLISH WORD COW
Y YŬ INFINITIVE MOOD LIKE THE WORD YOW
D DŬ POSSESSION LIKE THE WORD DOW ADDED TO A PRONOUN TO SHOW POSSESSION
N NŬ PLURAL LIKE THE WORD NOW
T TŬ TOOL LIKE THE TOW OF THE WORD TOWEL
F FŬ FEMININE LIKE THE FOW IN FOWL
S SŬ SLANG EXPRESSION LIKE THE WORD SOW
P PŬ TERM OF ENDEARMENT LIKE THE WORD POUCH WITHOUT THE CH
G GŬ MACHINE LIKE THE "GOU" IN THE WORD GOUGE
D DŬ ADJECTIVE LIKE THE WORD DOW ADDED TO A PRONOUN TO SHOW POSSESSION
R RŬ ADVERB LIKE THE ROU IN THE WORD ROUTE BUT WITH A TRILLED R
H HŬ INLAW LIKE THE WORD HOW
A thing that was pointed out to me as a youngster when I first presented a conlang phonology this way: knowing what you mean requires us to be familiar with the dialect of English you speak. It's lucky you haven't mentioned anything like "the o in cot" or "the e in pen", because different people pronounce those differently.

Also, by saying "it sounds like <word>" requires me to know how to pronounce that word in the first place. For words like "bow", "sow", and "route", there are multiple possibilities (route in my dialect, for instance switches between /ɹuːt/ and /ɹaʊt/ depending on the phase of the moon). And for things like "mow in the country song elvira", I haven't the foggiest idea what you're referring to.

It was really hammered in my head when I read the appendix to Lord of the Rings, and Tolkien's description of Elvish phonology follows this very pattern, and it's like "pronounced like the 'a' in the north", and unless you happen to be intimately familiar with the dialects of English as they were spoken in England in the 1950s-ish, you will have no idea what he's actually referring to.

This is just, ultimately, to point out that IPA was developed for a reason: it allows clear, (relatively) unambiguous communication of sounds. I would highly, highly recommend you at least learn some of it if you plan on being involved in conlanging communities. If nothing else, start with Wikipedia, and if you need help typing it, there are tools out there.

Also, looking at the other languages/phonologies people have posted here or elsewhere can give you a good rough-in for how to possibly do something. It's okay if you're a little rough and figuring out what you're doing. Many people are more than willing to help out. :)
[+1]
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Khemehekis wrote:
Larryrl wrote: S SŬ SLANG EXPRESSION LIKE THE WORD SOW
I was thinking this could be "Reap what you sow", but considering all the other English words you're using as examples, I'm going to assume this is "sow" as in female pig.
R RŬ ADVERB LIKE THE ROU IN THE WORD ROUTE BUT WITH A TRILLED R
In my dialect "route" has /u/ (meaning it rhymes with "boot"). How about "rowdy"?
Thanks much better choice.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Frislander wrote:
Axiem wrote:
Spoiler:
Larryrl wrote:These are my affixes as they are right now

ENDING SPELLING USE PRONUNCIATION
C CŬ PRESENT TENSE LIKE THE WORD CHOW
B BŬ PAST TENSE LIKE THE WORD BOW
M MŬ FUTURE TENSE LIKE THE MOW IN THE COUNTRY SONG ELVIRA
J JŬ CONDITIONAL MOOD LIKE THE JOW IN THE WORD JOWL
K KŬ IMPERATIVE MOOD LIKE THE ENGLISH WORD COW
Y YŬ INFINITIVE MOOD LIKE THE WORD YOW
D DŬ POSSESSION LIKE THE WORD DOW ADDED TO A PRONOUN TO SHOW POSSESSION
N NŬ PLURAL LIKE THE WORD NOW
T TŬ TOOL LIKE THE TOW OF THE WORD TOWEL
F FŬ FEMININE LIKE THE FOW IN FOWL
S SŬ SLANG EXPRESSION LIKE THE WORD SOW
P PŬ TERM OF ENDEARMENT LIKE THE WORD POUCH WITHOUT THE CH
G GŬ MACHINE LIKE THE "GOU" IN THE WORD GOUGE
D DŬ ADJECTIVE LIKE THE WORD DOW ADDED TO A PRONOUN TO SHOW POSSESSION
R RŬ ADVERB LIKE THE ROU IN THE WORD ROUTE BUT WITH A TRILLED R
H HŬ INLAW LIKE THE WORD HOW
A thing that was pointed out to me as a youngster when I first presented a conlang phonology this way: knowing what you mean requires us to be familiar with the dialect of English you speak. It's lucky you haven't mentioned anything like "the o in cot" or "the e in pen", because different people pronounce those differently.

Also, by saying "it sounds like <word>" requires me to know how to pronounce that word in the first place. For words like "bow", "sow", and "route", there are multiple possibilities (route in my dialect, for instance switches between /ɹuːt/ and /ɹaʊt/ depending on the phase of the moon). And for things like "mow in the country song elvira", I haven't the foggiest idea what you're referring to.

It was really hammered in my head when I read the appendix to Lord of the Rings, and Tolkien's description of Elvish phonology follows this very pattern, and it's like "pronounced like the 'a' in the north", and unless you happen to be intimately familiar with the dialects of English as they were spoken in England in the 1950s-ish, you will have no idea what he's actually referring to.

This is just, ultimately, to point out that IPA was developed for a reason: it allows clear, (relatively) unambiguous communication of sounds. I would highly, highly recommend you at least learn some of it if you plan on being involved in conlanging communities. If nothing else, start with Wikipedia, and if you need help typing it, there are tools out there.

Also, looking at the other languages/phonologies people have posted here or elsewhere can give you a good rough-in for how to possibly do something. It's okay if you're a little rough and figuring out what you're doing. Many people are more than willing to help out. :)
[+1]
Yes, I sometimes forget that not everybody speaks as I do, or knows what I mean. The mow I spoke about in the country song is the English /m but with the /aʊ at the end. Or at last the i.p.a. for English chart shows that as representing the ow sound.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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