What I have been working on

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Khemehekis
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Larryrl wrote: 12 Aug 2021 21:41 I have the words would and may might could, I think I have should as well as could. It's not so much about the verb forms, as it is whether or not to place the word "WILL" before the present tense to make the future tense. I either remove the word "WILL" and keep all 200+ future tense verb words, or remove the 200+ future tense verb words in favor of using "WILL" in front of the present tense form. The same is true for "COULD". I either keep it to make the conditional mood by using only 1 word, or I get rid of it, and make either the "J" or the "H" words I already have to be conditional. If I do keep the words I already have, it just means more words in the language. However, at what cost to the learner. I want SHU to be easy to learn. I am autistic and it has to be something I and others can learn easy. [:D]
But it also has to be something in which every thought expressible in natlangs can be expressed. For example, how could people communicate in a conlang if the conlang didn't have a way to make orders/requests (no imperative, nor "Could you ______?")

How would you express each of the following in Shu?

1. Hand me that towel.
2. I am going to cry.
3. Pam was going to walk the dog, but she had an emergency this morning.
4. Steve would call some friends later that day.
5. Jack would go to the convenience store every Friday
6. Paul was drinking a soda.
7. The dog had already torn up my homework.
8. Do you like pizza?
9. Mike was arrested by the cop.
10. Let's go drink a few beers.
11. I got my house painted.
12. Sharon got her hair wet.
13. Tom has his eyes closed.
14. May you live for 100 years!

If you don't have a way of expressing these fourteen sentences in Shu, then people will not be able to communicate the things they want to say in your conlang. It's the discussion we had about Testyal's comment: it is impossible to have a grammar that is truly simple in every way without sacrificing the speakers' ability to express and communicate in the language.

P.S. Also we have a number of Aspies on this board and many of them create detailed conlangs with complex grammars and/or orthographies. Look at the declension/conjugation paradigms of Ahzoh's Vrkhazhian or the huge number of Man in Space's Caber logograms, for instance.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Larryrl
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

How would you express each of the following in Shu?
Edited:
Spoiler:
1. Hand me that towel. Dalek la di usel

2. I am going to cry. La des menden ke bawut
la hesh bawut

3. Pam was going to walk the dog, but she had an emergency this morning. Pam lesh ke but, mush ga lŷt ŷf hazarde ki alam



4. Steve would call some friends later that day. Steve nip belem ana amis pan di to

5. Jack would go to the convenience store every Friday Jack nip dalu ke ŷm rala tik ŷl vita

6. PAUL LESH BITAL ŶN AJA PAUL WAS DRINKING A SODA
7. ŶM GALAK LESH BĂM LEST ŶM PET ODOGET THE DOG HAD ALREADY TORN UP THE HOMEWORK
8. PŶ NA BIKI PEŦO DO YOU LIKE PIZZA
9. MIKE LESH LARATE PER ŶM FUSH MIKE WAS ARRESTED BY THE COP
10. DAS WA BITAL ŶN ENSAMA BERE LETS GO DRINK A FEW BEARS
11. LA LŶT LO PAT KEPENT I HAD MY HOUSE PAINTED
12. SHARON LEZERET GO EM GELA SHARON GOT HER HAIR WET
13. TOM BŶT SO CASES LABAV TOM HAS HIS EYES CLOSED
14. BOTIP NA DUBIB EKOSKA SAN YUNS MAY YOU LIVE FOR 100 YEARS
I am quite sure the others are doable however I will do my due diligence and make sure.
Last edited by Larryrl on 13 Aug 2021 08:17, edited 3 times in total.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
Khemehekis
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Larryrl wrote: 13 Aug 2021 01:31
Spoiler:
1. Hand me that towel. Dalek la di usel

2. I am going to cry. La des menden ke bawut
la hesh bawut

3. Pam was going to walk the dog, but she had an emergency this morning. Pam lesh ke but, mxsh ga lŷt ŷf hazarde ki alam



4. Steve would call some friends later that day. Steve nip belem ana amis pan di to

5. Jack would go to the convenience store every Friday Jack nip dalu ke ŷm rala tik ŷl vita
I am quite sure the others are doable however I will do my due diligence and make sure.
Cool.

Although you use the same word for all senses of "would" ("was planning to" would and "would habitually" would)?

Do you distinguish "should" and "must" in the "moral imperative" sense ("You should eat your vegetables", "You must never cheat on your math tests again") from "should" and "must" in the "logical conclusion" sense ("Danny should be home by now -- I don't know what's taking him so long", "This T-shirt must be Jenny's")?

Also: is a rala tik a convenience store? That sounds like such a cool way to say it.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Larryrl
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Khemehekis wrote: 13 Aug 2021 07:24
Larryrl wrote: 13 Aug 2021 01:31
Spoiler:
1. Hand me that towel. Dalek la di usel

2. I am going to cry. La des menden ke bawut
la hesh bawut

3. Pam was going to walk the dog, but she had an emergency this morning. Pam lesh ke but, mxsh ga lŷt ŷf hazarde ki alam



4. Steve would call some friends later that day. Steve nip belem ana amis pan di to

5. Jack would go to the convenience store every Friday Jack nip dalu ke ŷm rala tik ŷl vita
I am quite sure the others are doable however I will do my due diligence and make sure.
Cool.

Although you use the same word for all senses of "would" ("was planning to" would and "would habitually" would)?

Do you distinguish "should" and "must" in the "moral imperative" sense ("You should eat your vegetables", "You must never cheat on your math tests again") from "should" and "must" in the "logical conclusion" sense ("Danny should be home by now -- I don't know what's taking him so long", "This T-shirt must be Jenny's")?

Also: is a rala tik a convenience store? That sounds like such a cool way to say it.
I am not sure at this point. I do not think so. As far as distinguishing the moral imperative, the surrounding words tell you it is a moral imperative. I am unclear as to the difference between the moral imperative, and the plain imperative. Your vegetable example is not telling them to eat their vegetables, it just implies that they should. I guess the moral part is kind of like telling them they should rather than they have to. I still need to translate more of your 14 sentences. I edited my previous post, so I have all but 2 or 3 translated.

Yes a rila tik, is a convenience store which of course the R is the Spanish R. [:D]
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
Khemehekis
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Very good! That means you can do all those verbythings with Shu.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

I have modified the verb tenses as I talked about in previous posts. Now "TO" goes before the verb to form the infinitive, "WILL" goes before the verb to form the future, and "Would" goes before the verb to form the conditional. I'm doing the conditional like Esperanto. Would goes before the verb, if I do not believe the condition will be true. However, if I believe the condition will come true, then I use the "WILL"instead of "WOULD" to show that the chance of that thing coming true is good.

Example: I would go, if I could get a ride. If I thought there was no chance of getting a ride, I'd use would. If I felt like I could find a ride from someone, I would phrase it like this: I will go if I will get a ride. The difference being that "WILL" indicates a positive, where "Would" indicates a negative thought process.


New affixes list to reflect the ""J" and "H" no longer representing a verb tense.
Spoiler:
LETTER POSITION IN WORD MEANING
B FIRST LETTER PRESENT
D FIRST LETTER PRESENT
K FIRST LETTER PAST
L FIRST LETTER PAST
H FIRST LETTER FUTURE
J FIRST LETTER FUTURE
AB FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
AD FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
AK FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
AL FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
AH FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
AJ FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ĂB FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ĂD FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ĂK FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ĂL FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ĂH FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ĂJ FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
OB FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
OD FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
OK FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
OL FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
OH FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
OJ FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
EB FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ED FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
EK FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
EL FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
EH FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
EJ FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
IB FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ID FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
IK FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
IL FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
IH FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
IJ FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
UB FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
UD FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
UK FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
UL FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
UH FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
UJ FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŬB FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŬD FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŬK FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŬL FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŬH FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŬJ FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŶB FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŶD FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŶK FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŶL FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŶH FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
ŶJ FIRST TWO LETTERS NOUN MADE FROM A VERB
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Made two cool words.


ALIEN, EXTRA TERRESTERIAL RENAH
ALIEN (OUTSIDER, FOREIGNER) NAH

The second one is an English acronym which means "not from around here"
The first one is an English acronym which means "really not from around here"

[:D]
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
Khemehekis
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Larryrl wrote: 14 Aug 2021 07:39 Made two cool words.


ALIEN, EXTRA TERRESTERIAL RENAH
ALIEN (OUTSIDER, FOREIGNER) NAH

The second one is an English acronym which means "not from around here"
The first one is an English acronym which means "really not from around here"

[:D]
[+1] I like them!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Larryrl
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Khemehekis wrote: 14 Aug 2021 07:40
Larryrl wrote: 14 Aug 2021 07:39 Made two cool words.


ALIEN, EXTRA TERRESTERIAL RENAH
ALIEN (OUTSIDER, FOREIGNER) NAH

The second one is an English acronym which means "not from around here"
The first one is an English acronym which means "really not from around here"

[:D]
[+1] I like them!
If you already have over 77,000 words in your conlang, what does the number in your signature represent? Maybe it's the minimum number of words a conlanger should have just to get started. If so, then you are already over by 45,484 words. [:D]
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Larryrl
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

NEW WORDS:

ARMED MIT VAPAN (LITERALLY WITH GUN)
ROBBERY ODARA
ARMED ROBBERY MIT VAPAN ODARA (LITERALLY ROBBERY WITH GUN)
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
Khemehekis
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Larryrl wrote: 15 Aug 2021 06:27
Khemehekis wrote: 14 Aug 2021 07:40
Larryrl wrote: 14 Aug 2021 07:39 Made two cool words.


ALIEN, EXTRA TERRESTERIAL RENAH
ALIEN (OUTSIDER, FOREIGNER) NAH

The second one is an English acronym which means "not from around here"
The first one is an English acronym which means "really not from around here"

[:D]
[+1] I like them!
If you already have over 77,000 words in your conlang, what does the number in your signature represent? Maybe it's the minimum number of words a conlanger should have just to get started. If so, then you are already over by 45,484 words. [:D]
I believe you mean 45,584.

Anyway, it's just a running joke started by Tanni in this post.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

So, it is midnight here at my house, and I have been working diligently on Shu since 9:00 pm. That's 3 hours, and I'm still going strong. I am bound and determined to make a spreadsheet so big that Excel will not be able to recover from. [:D] Anyway, first thing I did was make a copy of my word list. I usually name that sheet word list. So then I had word list and word list (2). It's a windows copy thing. Anyway, I took #2, and I looked at all of my verbs that had a noun or some other part of speech form, like "to introduce" I changed it to introduction. I did this for all verbs that had a form in addition to the verb forms. Then I deleted all the verbs that did not have a form except a verb form. Then, I deleted the two columns that were the verb forms "present or still tense", and "past tense". So then I renamed word list (2) to Shu nouns.

I did just the opposite for the original word list. I took out the other form column, which was for any other part of speech except verbs. Then I deleted any row that was blank in the verb tense columns. This left me with a sheet full of verbs. so I renamed word list to Shu verbs. So now my verbs occupy their own sheet, and all the rest of the parts of speech occupy their own page. It is going to make it a bit difficult to show where there are duplicates, as I do not know how to do that between multiple sheets. So, each word I add will have to be searched for on whichever page It's not going to be on. The page I put it on will highlight it to tell me if it is already there, so that is good. What it won't do is highlight it on the other page as well.

Currently, I have 2,090 words and still going strong. The number of my conlang beast, is however many English words I find that need a home in Shu.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Another change, I made to Shu, was to add a couple of idioms. I will add more as I think of them.

Some sample idioms:
Spoiler:
AT STAKE , AT RISK
CE DAZEK

AT PLAY, AT WORK (INVOLVED, HAPPENING)
BISTUA

EMO (EMOTIONAL)
IMUT

FRENEMY (SOMEONE YOU THINK IS YOUR FRIEND BUT YOU KNOW THEY ARE YOUR ENEMY)
AMI NU AMI


GROOVY (OLD 1960'S SLANG)
TREKEN


RAIN CATS AND DOGS (RAINING HARD)
BARUN ANZ


PICK A LANGUAGE UP (LEARN A LANGUAGE BY LIVING IN A COUNTRY)
DAGEB LENG ELENG VUND


BREAK A LEG (DO WELL AT A PERFORMANCE)
DEK GRUT MIT ANKTŶ
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
Khemehekis
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Larryrl wrote: 16 Aug 2021 17:12 FRENEMY (SOMEONE YOU THINK IS YOUR FRIEND BUT YOU KNOW THEY ARE YOUR ENEMY)
AMI NU AMI
So NU means "not", and therefore NU AMI means "enemy"? Friend-not-friend?
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Khemehekis wrote: 16 Aug 2021 18:59
Larryrl wrote: 16 Aug 2021 17:12 FRENEMY (SOMEONE YOU THINK IS YOUR FRIEND BUT YOU KNOW THEY ARE YOUR ENEMY)
AMI NU AMI
So NU means "not", and therefore NU AMI means "enemy"? Friend-not-friend?
Yes, nu ami means not friend the ami, on the end means friend, so, it's literally friend not friend. I do not know how else to do that. If you have a better idea, I'd definitely consider it. The way I did it serves the purpose, but it's not exactly the best way to do it.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
Khemehekis
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Larryrl wrote: 16 Aug 2021 23:17
Khemehekis wrote: 16 Aug 2021 18:59
Larryrl wrote: 16 Aug 2021 17:12 FRENEMY (SOMEONE YOU THINK IS YOUR FRIEND BUT YOU KNOW THEY ARE YOUR ENEMY)
AMI NU AMI
So NU means "not", and therefore NU AMI means "enemy"? Friend-not-friend?
Yes, nu ami means not friend the ami, on the end means friend, so, it's literally friend not friend. I do not know how else to do that. If you have a better idea, I'd definitely consider it. The way I did it serves the purpose, but it's not exactly the best way to do it.
I really don't see anything wrong with doing it that way. After all, the word "enemy" is just a negative prefix added to amicus/ami/amigo/amico, meaning "friend". So you have a sort of calque in making NU AMI your word for "enemy". And of course, the English "frenemy" is friend + enemy, so you're calquing that too! [B)]
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Also revamped my modal verbs [:D]


MAY, MIGHT, CAN, COULD (MODAL VERB)

May, might and can is BOTIP
could is KOTIP

OUGHT, SHOULD (MODAL VERB) DOMA

There are no tenses for ought and should, as they mean the same thing. The only reason for having some may, might, can and could, is to separate could from the other three. Somehow I had botip for may, and might, but ended up deleting it by accident. It is corrected now.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
Khemehekis
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Question: Do you have different words for "may/might" as in "could possibly", and "may" as in "have/has permission to"? That would be useful in an auxlang.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
User avatar
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Re: What I have been working on

Post by Larryrl »

Khemehekis wrote: 17 Aug 2021 03:58 Question: Do you have different words for "may/might" as in "could possibly", and "may" as in "have/has permission to"? That would be useful in an auxlang.
WHETHER YOU WILL ALLOW ME, MAY I
UZH

Ths is the may you're talking about having permission. Yes, it is separate from the may, might and could verbs, and is not really a verb itself.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
Khemehekis
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Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: What I have been working on

Post by Khemehekis »

Larryrl wrote: 17 Aug 2021 22:08
Khemehekis wrote: 17 Aug 2021 03:58 Question: Do you have different words for "may/might" as in "could possibly", and "may" as in "have/has permission to"? That would be useful in an auxlang.
WHETHER YOU WILL ALLOW ME, MAY I
UZH

Ths is the may you're talking about having permission. Yes, it is separate from the may, might and could verbs, and is not really a verb itself.
Oh, nice! It's good that you don't make all your words have the same part of speech as their semantic equivalent in English.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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