Proto-Frinthan

[clawgrip]

In the spirit of sharing and contributing to the site in order to get more ideas flowing, I thought I would do something that I do not see many people do: share an old language of mine, with its strong points and flaws alike on display. This language is Proto-Frinthan, also called Proto-Mushroomese. I started work on it somewhere around 2000ish, though I don't quite recall.

This language is somewhat important to me, because it started out as a basic nooblang, but over the years I worked on it, I gained more and more knowledge, and performed a lot of repairs on the stuff I had created earlier to make it a more interesting language. Certain inconsistencies ended up as happy coincidences that allowed me to make interesting ideas, while other clumsiness defies repair and sits triumphantly in the middle of the language, refusing to clean up its mess.

So take a look, if you're interested.

Phonology
My main gripe with this language is the consonant inventory. I derived a slew of daughter languages from this one (based on rather dubious sound changes), not to mention the script is a featural alphabet, meaning it's extremely hard to change the consonant inventory to something that is not awful. So I'm pretty much stuck with it. Here it is:

Consonants
labial: p b m <p b m>
labiodental: f v~ɱ <f m̃> (yes that's right, why use v when you have m̃ just sitting there, waiting to be used?)
dental: /θ ð n̪͡d̪/ <th dh ň> (because I need a nasal for every articulation point, right?)
alveolar: /t d n s/ <t d n s>
retroflex: /ʈ ɖ ɳ/ <ṭ ḍ ṇ>
palatal: /c ɟ ɲ ɕ/ <ch j ñ sh>
velar: /k g ŋ x/ <k g ng x>
uvular: /q ɢ/ <q ġ> (Wait, where's /ɴ/? Why did I decide not to include it? I forget, so I guess we'll never know)
other stuff: l r ɹ h w j <l r ŕ h w y>

This list is just a big mix of mostly the top row of the IPA chart that I could pronounce. A couple rules:

Depending on the dialect, /h/ is either entirely disallowed word-finally, or only allowed in the nominative case. Outside of this case, when /h/ is forced to appear at the end of a word, it changes to /n/.

Similarly, /x/ may or may not be disallowed word-finally, depending on the dialect. When it appears word-finally in a dialect that forbids it, it is converted to /s/.

The vowels are slightly better:

Vowels
/ɪ iː ʊ uː/ <i ī u ū>
/ɛ eː ɔ oː/ <e ē o ō>
/a aː/ <a ā>
/ɔw ow/ <ou ōū>
/aj aɔ/ <ai ao>

Kind of Englishy, but I think it was sort of nice that the one set of back diphthongs pattern like the other vowels, so this could originally have been a sixth vowel that diphthongized. I didn't plan that, I'm sure, but it works out that way.

Later in the language's life, I revitalized the vowel system by creating three weak vowels: /ə ɪ ʊ/ <ə ĭ ŭ>. These only occur at the end or almost at the end of a word, and became a defining factor of the North-South split, because in the north they fortified to regular vowels, while in the south they were dropped. These only occur in grammatical suffixes and thus behave slightly differently than regular vowels. I will explain them when I discuss the relevant grammar.

Phonotactics
Syllables may be either (C)V(C)(C) or (C)(C)V(C), but (C)(C)V(C)(C) never occurs. Looking at my dictionary and reaching into my memory, I think the language also forbids CCC sequences, and employs strategies to avoid them.

Despite the syllable pattern above, base morphemes very commonly take the pattern (C)VCcV(C), where Cc is one of the continuants I listed above as "other stuff" (i.e. l r ŕ h w y). When the nucleus is a VCV sequence, coda cannot be a cluster, but there are a couple words that have onset clusters:

Some examples:
With CC onset/codas:
bont - hole
kŕōj - flat; planar

With VCV nuclei:
kiyaok - to know
ourad - shale

CCVCV(C) sequences:
ngwouyīt - to bake
kwaowa - heavy

Accent
Rather late in the development of this language, I introduced a pitch/stress accent. It's basically like a regular stress accent, except vowel length and quality are unaffected, and it's possible for certain words to lack a stress. Here are the basic details of how it works:

Nouns take a falling pitch:
gyat↓ - "head"

Prefixes have low pitch but do not affect the base noun's pitch, giving prefixed nouns a low-high-low pitch:
a↑bīyem↓ - "brother"

Compound nouns retain the pitch of only one of the words, but which one it is is irregular:
jīg↓dayak - "grammar"
hŕib↑we↓yung - "language"

Verbs without prefixes also have a falling pitch, like nouns:
kaob↓ - "walk"

Personal prefixes take low pitch:
kaob↓i - "you walk"

Like on nouns, verbal prefixes also take low pitch, while the root retains its high-low pattern:
ya↑kaob↓i - "you (PL) walk"

Certain verb suffixes and verb forms alter pitch:
The 3rd person conjugation (suffix -Ǿ) is indicated with high pitch, that is, it specifically eliminates the normal fall:

kaob↓a - "I walk"
kaob↓i - "you walk"
kaob - "he/she/it walks"

When a verb ends in ī, pitch becomes the only way of distinguishing second and third person:
tṓgī̀ - you drag
tōgī́ - he/she/it drags

The suffix -eya carries its own pitch drop, i.e. -e↓ya:

kaob↓a - "I walk"
kaobe↓ya "having walked"

So there are the basics of the phonology. Next I will cover noun declension, which has some features I still like now.

[clawgrip]

Also, I don't know, but I have this weird feeling that some of you might really be interested to know about the numbers 1-10 in this language:

1 youb
2 yaol
3 yash
4 yīyam̃
5 yuwang
6 yūk
7 yiwaku
8 yiwafo
9 yircho
10 yirbu

[clawgrip]

Noun Declension

Nouns decline into six cases: nominative, accusative, dative, genitive, ablative, and instrumental.

Before the N-S split, the basic case endings are as follows:
NOM: -h / -əh
ACC: -i
DAT: -ao
GEN: -k
ABL: -də
INST: -p

When a noun ends with a vowel, it simply adds the consonant endings as-is. The ending -i becomes -yi, and -ao becomes -wao:

ayu- - "ash"

NOM: ayuh
ACC: ayuyi
DAT: ayuwao
GEN: ayuk
ABL: ayudə
INST: ayup

If a word ends in a vowel followed by a weak vowel, the weak vowel is deleted in the first three cases:

sīə- "man"

NOM: sīh
ACC: sīyi
DAT: sīwao
GEN: sīək
ABL: sīədə
INST: sīəp

If the word ends in a consonant followed by a weak vowel, the weak vowel remains in the nominative but is converted to a semivowel in the accusative and dative:
krīmŭ- "world"

NOM: krīmŭh
ACC: krīmwi
DAT: krīmwao
GEN: krīmŭk
ABL: krīmŭdə
INST: krīmŭp

In the Northern dialect, both weak vowels (including in the dative) and the nominative ending were deleted, and the genitive became prenasalized:

sīə- "man"

becomes:

NOM: sī
ACC: sīyi
DAT: sīwao
GEN: sīngk
ABL: sīd
INST: sīp

ūrkə- "skin; covering"

NOM: ūrk
ACC: ūrki
DAT: ūrkao
GEN: ūrkak
ABL: ūrkad
INST: ūrkap

In the southern dialect, the weak vowels were strengthened after consonants:

ūrkə- "skin; covering"

NOM: ūrkah
ACC: ūrki
DAT: ūrkao
GEN: ūrkak
ABL: ūrkada
INST: ūrkap

When the stem ends in a consonant, the nominative becomes -əh, while for the final three cases, a few things happen, depending on the root:
1. It receives an epenthetic vowel:
NOM: kugəh
ACC: kugi
DAT: kugao
GEN: kugak
ABL: kugadə
INST: kugap

The epenthetic vowel is morphophonologically determined, though I came up with the rules rather randomly. Here is a list of which vowel appears:

When the final vowel is X, the epenthetic vowel will be Y (X → Y):

a → i
ā → i
ao → i
u → a
ū → a
i → a
ī → a
ai → a
e → a, i
ē → a, i
o → e
ō → e
ou → i
ōū → i

I chose these based on what sounded good to me at the time, with no deep thought going into it. Looking at it now, it seems to be fairly consistent dissimilation, with e as the only outlier (which, interestingly, I assigned two different possibilities to). It's neat to look back at this and realize I actually knew what I was doing without consciously knowing what I was doing.


The most interesting feature here, which I still like, is that a large number of roots undergo grammatical metathesis of the final VC sequence:

sūk- "lid; cap; cover"

NOM: sūkəh
ACC: sūki
DAT: sūkao
GEN: skūk
ABL: skūdə
INST: skūp

This frequently causes phonetic changes, such as semivowels becoming vowels:
thayat- "ocean" → thaita-
jiyang- "city" → jīnga-
dyīg "hand" → digī-
kurtilawush- "examination" → kurtilaoshu-

Sometimes consonant alteration:
eren- "bottom" → enne-
ōūŕk- "dwelling; home" → ōūka- (ŕ gets converted to a)

[DesEsseintes]

I love this. It's so conlangy.

Also, I don't know, but I have this weird feeling that some of you might really be interested to know about the numbers 1-10 in this language:

1 youb
2 yaol
3 yash
4 yīyam̃
5 yuwang
6 yūk
7 yiwaku
8 yiwafo
9 yircho
10 yirbu

Is there a reason why all the numbers start in y-?

[Nachtuil]

I am enjoying reading this and with your current assessment it.

[Ebon]

When I use ū in my Long Dau, I read it as a long u, but for whatever reason I instinctively parse them as ü /y/ when you do even though I know that's not what you mean. Weird.

I like this though! Nice looking words.

[Creyeditor]

Nice pitch accent. Is it inspired by Japanese? Also did it only lower tone (as in most pitch accent systems) or also the register (as indicated by the IPA arrows)?

[clawgrip]

Is there a reason why all the numbers start in y-?

There is no reason why they do. For whatever reason, the numbers ended up that way, and then later on I desperately searched for a reason why that would be the case. They used to all start with ty-, but then I decided t- would be an ordinal marker. I posited that the y- was also a prefix of some sort that was fossilized onto the original number morphemes, but what it is, I have no idea.

I am enjoying reading this and with your current assessment it.

Thank you. I can see many problems with the language, but at the same time, I still really like it, because I put a lot of work into it over several years.

When I use ū in my Long Dau, I read it as a long u, but for whatever reason I instinctively parse them as ü /y/ when you do even though I know that's not what you mean. Weird.

I like this though! Nice looking words.

I think /y/ is kind of an odd interpretation of <ū>, but oh well!
Thanks, though. I like the syllable structure as well, and I think the VCV nucleus I mentioned, with words like brūwug, gīyaif, sūŕao, combined with short words like derk, net, twob etc. (and compounds like thwiṇṭamoud, chīdpūwam, jōūwabōwok, etc. ) kind of save the phonology from utter mediocrity.

Nice pitch accent. Is it inspired by Japanese? Also did it only lower tone (as in most pitch accent systems) or also the register (as indicated by the IPA arrows)?

I no longer remember what it was inspired by, but I don't think it was, because it's actually mostly predictable except in compounds. I don't know about IPA arrows, but I was not using IPA there, just giving an easily understandable visual representation of the pitch changes.

Also an addendum: I forgot to mention that nouns can be pluralized with the prefix ŕi(y)-. Add y for words that begin with vowels:

sīyi "man (ACC)"
ŕisīyi "men (ACC)"

ūrkah "skin (NOM)"
ŕiyūrkah "skins (NOM)"

There is no irregularity here.

[clawgrip]

Verbs
Predictably, the verbs in this language agree with first, second, and third person, singular and plural, and in the oldest form, it just had past, present, and future tenses. It also has potential and hypothetical suffixes that are just kind of there. In this section, I want to talk about person marking.

The first person suffix is -a, and the second person suffix is -i. As discussed above, third person is indicated by altered pitch alone. Plural is marked with the prefix y(a)-, with the a being dropped for words beginning with a vowel.

ňasa "I sit"
ňasi "you sit"
ňas "he/she/it sits"
yaňasa "we sit"
yaňasi "you sit"
yaňas "they sit"

ōyeġa "I boil (it)"
ōyeġi "you boil (it)"
ōyeġ "he/she/it boils (it)"
yōyeġa "we boil (it)"
yōyeġi "you boil (it)"
yōyeġ "they boil (it)"

There's kind of a weird rule in this language where consonants become voiced when surrounded by two of the same vowel. I don't know what phonological justification for this there would be, but that was a rule I made, and it's followed consistently, e.g.:

gika "I have (it)"
gigi "you have (it)"

(producing my favourite word in this language, gigigi "you had (it)")

Originally, verb stems ending with vowels would simply drop the vowel and replace it with the personal ending. I was never really satisfied with this though, as it could obscure both the root and the personal endings, so later on I decided to make the stem vowels and the personal endings interact. It's a bit complex, but not too strange, I think, and I still rather like this system.

Long vowels or diphthongs arise predictably, e.g.:

ogaga- "to wander"
ogagā "I walk"
ogagai "you walk"

Vowels are reduced to semivowels, e.g.:

jūgatu- "to be admitted; to pass"
jūgatwa "I pass"
jūgatwi "you pass"

When this happens, vowel length transfers to the ending, e.g.:

tōgī- "to drag; to pull"
tōgyā "I pull"

or the ending may be lost:

tōgī "you pull"

ŕ is elided before w:

ōūŕo- "to stoop"
ōūwa "I stoop"

ny becomes ñ:

nī- "to teach"
ñā "I teach"

Sometimes the root vowel is altered or deconstructed:

joude- "to warn"
joudaya "I warn (someone)"

kōū- "to defeat"
kēwi "you defeat"

When a vowel already follows a semivowel and so reduction cannot occur, the vowels are merged or dropped:

m̃ofyō- "to say; to tell"
m̃ofyā "I say (it)"
m̃ofyē "you say (it)"

dwu- "to pull; to draw"
dwū "I pull (it)"
dwē "you pull (it)"

Sometimes, chain shifts will occur with vowels and semivowels:

iwī- "to wave; to sway; to undulate"
yuyā "I sway"

In certain words, a supporting vowel is irregularly added:

xī- "to do"
xyā "I do (it)"
ixī "you do (it)"
xī "he/she/it does (it)"

That's about everything, I think. I So like this system quite a bit.

Next i will do conjugations, tenses and so forth.

[Ebon]

When I use ū in my Long Dau, I read it as a long u, but for whatever reason I instinctively parse them as ü /y/ when you do even though I know that's not what you mean. Weird.

I like this though! Nice looking words.

I think /y/ is kind of an odd interpretation of <ū>, but oh well!
Thanks, though. I like the syllable structure as well, and I think the VCV nucleus I mentioned, with words like brūwug, gīyaif, sūŕao, combined with short words like derk, net, twob etc. (and compounds like thwiṇṭamoud, chīdpūwam, jōūwabōwok, etc. ) kind of save the phonology from utter mediocrity.

It's a little less weird when you know that I'm German and in my handwriting äöü are written with a bar rather than two dots. What I find strange is that I parse your macrons as ü but not Long Dau's... but like you said, oh well.

I like the irregularities in your verb conjugations. Gigigi is a great word.

[clawgrip]

Past tense
I'm just picking this up five years later, you know. Whatever.

The verbs in this language started out rather simple, but got more complex over time, and it seems that the random choices I made initially actually worked out in my favour when trying to make a more complex system.

First of all, there were originally three tenses: present, past, and future. For now, this post will only focus on the past tense. Keep in mind that the present tense was outlined above, and I reference it a couple times.

The past tense was formed by reduplicating either the final CV sequence in consonant-final verbs, and the final consonant in vowel-final verbs.

béŕà "I bite"
beŕéŕà "I bit"

ḍū́pì "you are"
ḍūbū́pì "you were"

thḗ "he/she/it lives"
thḗth "he/she/it lived"

Some of the irregularities mentioned above with personal agreement in the present tense are regular in the past tense:
nī́ "to teach"
ñā́ "I teach"
nī́nà "I taught"

iwī́ "to sway"
yúyā̀ "I sway"
iwī́wà "I swayed"

aḍū́ "to get wet"
áḍwài "you get wet"
aḍū́ḍì "you got wet"

There are several irregularities that can occur with reduplication, particularly in the third person, such as:

iwī́ "he/she/it sways"
iwī́ŭs "he/she/it swayed"
(w cannot occur word-finally, so it is reduced to a weak vowel, and is supplemented with s)

m̃ofyṓ "he/she/it says"
m̃ofyṓĭs "he/she/it said"
(y cannot occur word-finally, so it is reduced to a weak vowel, and is supplemented with s)

ōūŕó "he/she/it stoops"
ōūŕóŕsh "he/she/it stooped"

béŕ "he/she/it bites"
beŕéŕsh (beŕéŕs) "he/she/it bit"

(ŕ is always supplemented with sh, or occasionally s in some verbs, in a reduplicated past tense suffix)

xī́ "he/she/it does"
xī́s "he/she/it did"
(final x cannot occur, so it is replaced with s)

ixī́ "you do"
(supplemented with a supporting vowel, as mentioned above)
xī́yì "you did"
(expected form xī́xì is also valid, but usually the reduplicated x is dropped, resulting in the addition of an epenthetic y)

téhà "I spit (PRES)"
tehénà "I spit (PAST)"
(h always becomes n in the reduplicated suffix)

Sometimes, when diphthongs are involved, multiple forms are possible!
ŕáo "he/she/it rejoices"
ŕáŕs/ŕáŕsh/ŕáos/ŕáosh "he/she/it rejoiced"

The following post, whenever I get around to it, will be about the future, as well as the potential, hypothetical, and imperative forms.

There is plenty more to discuss about verbs. Hopefully I will take me less than five years before the next post.