Quick Diachronics Challenge

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Ratsawn
hieroglyphic
hieroglyphic
Posts: 47
Joined: 31 Aug 2020 23:17

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Ratsawn »

The proto-forms were:

[sˤaːˈratti] [ˈvortˤe] [ˈdʒalym] [ˈʕiːkke]

Sound changes and intermediary forms below:
Spoiler:
A-Z → A-H
[xaːˈrati] [ˈworte] [ˈjajym] [ˈʕiːke]
1. Cˤ → Cʕ
2. v dʒ → w j
3. [geminate] → [-geminate]
4. sʕ tʕ → x t
5. l → j / _[high vowel]

A-H → ABCD
[xaːˈrætʃi] [ˈwurtʃe] [ˈjæy̯m] [ˈiːtʃe]
1. j → Ø / _y
2. ʕ → Ø
3. {t, k} → tʃ / _{i, e}
4. a o → æ u / [stressed]

ABCD → AB
[xae̯ˈlætʃi] [ˈuʃtʃe] [ˈjøy̯m] [ˈɪi̯tʃe]
1. aː iː → ae̯ ɪi̯
2. r → ʃ / ̠C
3. r → l
4. æy̯ → øy̯
5. w → Ø

AB → A
[haə̯ˈlætʃɨ] [ˈuɸtʃə] [ˈɥøy̯m] [ˈei̯tʃə]
x → h
ʃ j → ɸ ɥ / [round vowel]_ , _[round vowel]
ɪi̯ → ei̯
[front vowel] → [central] / [unstressed]

AB → B
[xae̯ˈdeci] [ˈuːce] [ˈɟø̃ỹ̯] [ˈɪi̯ce]
Vm → V[nasal]
l j → d ɟ
tʃ → c
Vʃ → Vː / _C
æ → e

ABCD → CD
[xɑːˈrædʒi] [ˈpurdze] [ˈɟæːm] [ˈeːdze]
w j → p ɟ
C → [voiced] / [voiced]_[voiced]
aː iː → ɑː eː
æy̯ → æː
dʒ → dz / ! _i

CD → C
[kɑːˈrɐʒi] [ˈpurdze] [ˈɟaːm] [ˈeːre]
[fricative] → [stop] / #_
[affricate] → [fricative] / V_V
æ æː → ɐ aː
z → r

CD → D
[ɑːˈrædʒi] [ˈpudre] [ˈdeə̯m] [ˈeːdze]
x → Ø
ɟ → d
æː → eə̯
rC → Cr
dz → d / _C

A-H → EFGH
[xarˈti] [ˈtrwe] [iˈjui̯m] [ɣiˈke]
stress shifts to final syllable
[short unstressed vowel] [long vowel] → Ø [short vowel]
ʕ → ɣ
y → ui̯
C[higher sonority]C[lower sonority] → C[lower sonority]C[higher sonority] / _V

EFGH → EF
[arˈti] [ˈtʁa] [iˈjumi] [iˈka]
[fricative] → Ø / #_
rw → ʁ
e → a
ui̯C → uCi

EF → E
[anˈtθʲi] [ˈtθʁa] [iˈjumʲi] [iˈkxa]
Ci → Cʲi
r → n
[stop] → [affricate] / _[stressed vowel]

EF → F
[arˈtsiː] [ˈtχaː] [iˈjuːmi] [iˈtsaː]
{t, k} → ts
tʁ → tχ
[stressed vowel] → [long]

EFGH → GH
[kaːˈti] [ˈtwe] [iˈʃəi̯m] [giˈxe]
Vr → Vː
ui̯ → əi̯
ɣ x → g k
j → ʃ
k → x / V_V

GH → G
[kaˈri] [ˈtwe] [ɪˈroi̯m] [jɪˈɣe]
əi̯ → oi̯
aː {e, i} → a ɪ / [unstressed]
t ʃ → d ʒ → r / V_V
x → ɣ
g → j

GH → H
[kaːˈθi] [ˈtwɛj] [eˈhəi̯m] [dʒiˈhɛj]
e → ɛj
i → e / [unstressed]
g → dʒ
{ʃ x} → h
t → θ / V_V

A-Z → I-Q
[sˤɑːˈrɑtˤe] [ˈrovdˤɤ] [ˈdʒaliː] [ˈʕɤːkˤɤ]
[geminate] → [pharyngealized][-geminate]
a(ː) i e iː → ɑ(ː) e ɤ ɤː / [pharyngealized]_, _[pharyngealized]
y → i
Vm → Vː
CVrC → rVCC
[unvoiced] → [voiced] / [voiced consonant]_

I-Q → IJKLM
[ʃˤɑːˈrɑtˤ] [ˈrou̯dˤ] [ˈdali] [ˈɦɤːq]
sˤ → ʃˤ
v → u
kˤ → q
ʕ → ɦ
[vowel] → Ø / _#
dʒ → d

IJKLM → IJK
[ʃɑ̰ːˈʋɑ̰t] [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] [ˈdzeʎi] [ˈə̰ːq]
l → ʎ
a → e / _ʎ
o → ɒ / r_
d → dz / [front vowel]_
ɤː → əː
V → [creaky voice] / {ɦ, [pharyngealized consonant]}_, _{ɦ, [pharyngealized consonant]}
r → ʋ

IJK → I
[ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] [ˈdzei̯ʎ] [ˈjə̰ʔ]
q → ʔ
əː ɑː → jə wɑ
ʃw → ʃɸ
ʎi → iʎ

IJK → J
[sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] [dwɑ̀u̯] [zéʎí] [qə̀ː]
ʃ → s
[creaky voice] → [low tone]
ʋ → w
(C)VC# → C(C)V#
dz → z

IJK → K
[ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] [ˈɲɒːθ] [ˈdʑei̯] [ˈŋəːx]
ʋ → m
m → β / V_V
d → t / _#
q → k
ɒu → ɒː
[stop] → [fricative] / _#
dz → dʑ
ʎ → j
ji → j
V[creaky voice] → ŋV
VCŋ → Vŋ
ʃŋ → ʃn
mŋ → ɲ

IJKLM → LM
[ɣoːˈla] [ˈløwi] [ˈdæli] [ˈhɯː]
ʃˤ → ɣ
r → l
ɑ ɑː → a oː
tˤ dˤ → θ ð
ð → i
θ → Ø
vowel height harmony implemented (highː i e ɤ ø æ lowː o a)
q → lost
ɤ → ɯ
ɦ → h

LM → L
[o̰ːˈla] [ˈɬøw] [ˈtæl] [ˈɯ̤ː]
[voiced fricative]V → ØV[creaky voice] / #_
[unvoiced fricative]V → ØV[breathy voice] / #_
l d → ɬ t / #_
V → Ø / [unstressed]

LM → M
[ħoˈle] [ˈlɪwi] [ˈnæli] [ˈhɰɯ]
oː ɯː → wo ɰɯ
ɣw → ħ
ø → ɪ
d → n
a → e

I-Q → NOPQ
[ʃʃæːˈʁotə] [ˈʁæːdɮə] [ˈdɮeɬəː] [ˈʔɨːkə]
sˤ → ʃʃ
ɑː → æː
r → ʁ
ɑ → o
tˤ kˤ → t k
V → ə / _#
v → j
oj → æː
{dˤ, dʒ} → dɮ
a → e
l → ɬ
ʕ → ʔ
ɤː → ɨː

NOPQ → NO
[iʃˈqʰodə] [ˈqædɮə] [iɮˈɮeɬə] [ˈʔɨgə]
dɮ → ɮɮ / #_
Ø → i / #_[geminate]
[long vowel] → [short vowel]
V → Ø / [unstressed] ! #_, _#
[stop] → [voiced] / V_V
ʁ → q
ʃq → qʰ

NO → N
[aɴˈqχɔdə] [ˈqadɮə] [inˈɮɛɬ] [ˈŋɘgɯ]
qʰ → qχ
o æ e ɨ → ɔ a ɛ ɘ / [stressed]
ə → ɯ / [velar]_
ə → Ø / [voiceless consonant]_#
[fricative] → h / _C
[glottal] → ŋ
nasal assimilation
i → a / _[uvular]

NO → O
[iχˈχoda] [ˈqædza] [ilˈlela] [ˈʔiga]
ʃqʰ → χχ
[lateral fricative] [lateral affricate] → [-fricative] dz
ɨ ə → i a

NOPQ → PQ
[tʃəʃæi̯ˈjotə] [ˈjæi̯dəɮə] [dəˈɮeɬəː] [ˈʔɨːkə]
Ø → ə / C_C
ʃVʃ → tʃVʃ
æː → æi̯
ʁ → j

PQ → P
[tʃə̯æi̯ˈjoθə] [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] [əˈʒeːə̯] [ˈɨːə̯]
[lateral fricative] → [-lateral +postalveolar]
ʔ → Ø
[stop] → [fricative] / V_V
[unvoiced fricative] → Ø / ! θ
d → ð → Ø

PQ → Q
[θəseˈccoj] [ˈjeɟɟəj] [dəˈjeçə] [ˈθɨcc]
[posalveolar] → [alveolar]
ɮ → j
[vowel] → Ø / _#
ijVC → iCVj
{t, k} d → c ɟ / [front vowel]_
æi̯ → eː
V[long vowel]C[-geminate] → V[-long]C[+geminate]
ʔ → t
t → tʰ → θ / #_

A-Z → R-Z
[ʂɑːzzàti] [vóʈɤ] [dʒalý] [ʁʁìːke]
VC[stop] → V[high tone]Ø / _{#, C}
VC[resonant] → V[low tone]Ø / _{#, C}
[pharyngealized consonant] → [retroflex -pharyngealized]
ʕ → ʀ
a e → ɑ ɤ / [retroflex]_
[trill] → [geminate fricative]

R-Z → RSTUV
[hɑːzzài̯tsi] [vóːlɤ] [dʒai̯lý] [ʁʁìːtse]
ʂ ʈ → h l
[stressed high tone vowel] → [long]
a → ai̯ / _(C)V[high]
{t, k} → ts / [high vowel]_, _[high vowel]

RSTUV → RST
[ʔɑ́ːzzèi̯dzí] [pǿy̯lɤ̀] [ʒèi̯lý] [qèi̯dzé]
h → ʔ
ʁʁ → ʁ
v ʁ → p q
oː → yː
[mid tone] → [high tone] / [low tone]_
[mid tone] → [low tone] / [high tone]_
dʒ → ʒ
{ai̯, iː} → ei̯
yː → øy̯
[affricate] → [voiced] / V_V

RST → R
[ʔɑ́ːddʒèːð] [ɸǿːl] [ʒèːl] [χèːð]
dz → ð
[vowel] → Ø / _#
q p → χ ɸ
ei øy → eː øː
zz → dʒː

RST → S
[áːzèi̯dʒí] [bói̯ɫɯ̀] [ʒèi̯ɫý] [ɢèi̯dzí]
dz → dʒ / _i
zz → z
øy → oi
l → ɫ
ʔ → Ø
ɑ(ː) → a(ː)
p q → b ɢ
ɤ e → ɯ i / _#

RST → T
[ʔǽɪ̯zzèdʑí] [pǿʎɤ̀] [ʒèʎý] [qèdʑé]
Vi̯CV → VCjV
dzj → dʑ
lj → ʎ
ɑː → æɪ

RSTUV → UV
[ɑɣəzzàʃtsi] [wówle] [dʒaʒlý] [əzzìʃtse]
i̯ → ʒ
iː ɑː oː → iʒ ɑɣ ow
ʒts → ʃts
ɤ → e
Ø → ə / [geminate]_{C, #}, {C, #}_[geminate]
ʁ → z
h → Ø
v → w

UV → U
[ɑ̀ɣzə̀zâʃsì] [wówlè] [ʒàʒlý] [zə̀zîʃsè]
dʒ ts → ʒ s
VCː → CVC
[low tone] [mid tone] → [falling tone] [low tone]

UV → V
[ɑːrràttʃi] [ówle] [daʒlú] [ərrìttʃe]
z → r
w → Ø / #_
ɣ → Ø / V_V
ɑə → ɑː
ʃts → ttʃ
y → u
dʒ → d

R-Z → WXYZ
[ʂɐːzɐ̀tə] [vóʈə] [jɐlú] [ʁìːkə]
[geminate] → [-geminate]
ɤ y → o u
a ɑ → ɐ
[mid tone vowel] → ə / _#
dʒ → j

WXYZ → WX
[hæːˈzɑθə] [ˈhoʂə] [ˈjeɫu] [ˈhiːxə]
[stop] → [fricative] / V_V
[fricative] → h / #_
[tone] → [-tone]
[penultimate syllable] → [+stress]
l → ɫ
ɐ → e / j_, _j
ɐː ɐ → æː ɑ

WX → W
[hæːˈzɑh] [ˈhoh] [ˈjeɫv̩] [ˈçiːh]
ə → Ø
u → v̩
h → ç / _i
[fricative] → h / _#

WX → X
[hæːˈzɑːðə] [ˈhoːʐə] [ˈeːjɫu] [ˈhiːɣə]
[vowel] → [long] / [stressed]
[fricative] → [voiced] / V_V
jV → Vj

WXYZ → YZ
[ʂɐːrɐ̀tə] [ʙóʈʷə] [jɐlʷú] [ʀìːkʲə]
v z ʁ → ʙ r ʀ
iC → iCʲ
[consonant] → [labialized] / [round vowel]_, _[round vowel]

YZ → Y
[ʂaːràtə] [ʙóɻʷə] [jawú] [ʀìːcə]
ʈ → ɻ
lʷ → w
kʲ → c
ɐ → a

YZ → Z
[ʐaɐ̯rə̀də] [ʙóɖɵ] [jəlú] [ʀèi̯gɨ]
[obstruent] → [voiced] / _V
ɐː iː → aɐ̯ ei̯
ɐ → ə
[labialized consonant]V → [-labialized]V[+rounded]
ə →ɨ / [palatalized consonant]_
[palatalized consonant] → [-palatalized]
shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 8462
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar »

Cool! Thank you for putting all of this together. I'm going to be pretty busy through this coming week, but I'll try to have something for the next round soon.
shimobaatar
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Posts: 8462
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar »

shimobaatar wrote: 13 Feb 2021 22:32 Cool! Thank you for putting all of this together. I'm going to be pretty busy through this coming week, but I'll try to have something for the next round soon.
I just wanted to confirm that I am working on preparing the next round.
shimobaatar
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Posts: 8462
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar »

Sorry for the delay. Hopefully this won't be too easy or too hard.

A [ˈt͡ɕʼiːnd͡zuː] - [guˈt͡θʼɛːŋa] - [ˌt͡ɕiːt͡sʼaˈɓeː] - [haˈðoːppɔː] - [ʈ͡ʂʼiːˈnʱaːð]

B [ˈt͡ʃʼindru] - [goˈt͡θʼɛma] - [ˈt͡ʃit͡ʃʼaˌɓe] - [haˈvoːpɔ] - [ˈt͡sʼiŋŋan]

C [ˈt͡sʼinɔs] - [goˈt͡θʼœːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaʔ] - [haˈfoʔef] - [ˈt͡sʼinɛççe]

D [ˈt͡sʼinsu] - [goˈtʼɛwm] - [ˈt͡səjt͡sʼwe] - [haˈtoːpɔ]- [ˈt͡sʼin̥n̥aj]

E [ˈkʼiːnt͡su] - [ˈxtʼɛːmə] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼəˌɓeː] - [ˈsto̰jpɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːn̥n̥aʒ]

F [ˈkʼʊ̃jsy] - [t͡θʼəˈkɔjmʊ] - [ˈkʊjt͡sʼɪˌmoj] - [ˈθo̰jpœ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼʊ̃jhɔʒ]

G [ˈkʼojxxew] - [ˈxt͡sʼĩː] - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼwaj] - [ˈxsa̰wfuː] - [ˈkʼõjhuɐ̯]

H [ˈkʼwewˌxjo] - [uˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈxwet͡ʃʼəˌvi] - [xəˈsṵfo] - [ˈkʼwennoɐ̯]

I [ˈkʼøːxuˌxøː] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxøːt͡ʃʼiˌfiː] - [xəˈsuːfoː]- [ˈkʼøːnɒː]

J [ˈkʼɑjxxæw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxɑjpʈ͡ʂʼiː] - [xaˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼɑjnɑː]

K [ˈkʼæjxəˌʂɑw] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxæjʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː] - [xəˈswɨfoː] - [ˈkʼæjnaːx]

L [ˈkʼeɟəˌroː] - [xəˈtʼiːm] - [ˈxeːʈʼəˌviː] -[xəˈzugʷəˌvuː] - [ˈkʼeːᵈniɐ̯]

M [ˈkʼejiˌroʋ] - [ˈxtʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʼʋiː] - [ˈgzuʋuˌʋoː] - [ˈkʼejneɐ̯]

N [ˈqʼø̃ːsy] - [ˈt͡sʼẽː] - [ˈqẽːt͡sʼe] - [ˈskøːŋø] - [ˈqʼeːner]

O [ˈqʼexsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqet͡sʼmeː] - [ˈt͡søːŋeː] - [ˈqʼeːren]

P [ˈqeŋksyː] - [ˈt͡seːmo] - [ˈqet͡smeː] - [ˈxseɲɲeː] - [ˈqeːnan]

Q [ˈʕɪːŋəˌsyː] - [ˈzˤeːmə] - [ˈqɪːzˤəˌmeː] - [xəˈseːŋeː] - [ˈʕɪːnoːnə]

R [ˈħɪŋɤˌsy] - [ʔɯˈsˤemo] - [ˈqɪsˤɛˌme] - [xɐˈsejŋe] - [ˈħɪnnɯ]

S [ˈqʼɨ̃si] - [hɨˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqɨt͡sʼɛˌme] - [qaˈsẽççe] - [ˈqʼɨlɛn]

T [ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [ˈqsẽɲeː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːlɨ]

U [kʼɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma] - [d͡ʒít͡sʼɛɓé] - [d͡ʒɛsôʃpá] - [t͡ʃʼîːnɛ̌ːlɨ]

V [kɨ́ŋuhú] - [kʰut͡sɛ́ma] - [ít͡sɛwé] - [jasø̂ːpá] - [kîːnɔ̌ːlɨ]

W [kkɨ́nosú] - [kùθθɛ́ma] - [îtt͡sɛ̀ppé] - [awôːpá] - [kkínnɔ̌ːwɨ]

X [ə́kɨ́ŋòsú] - [kǔːtɛ́mɔ̀] - [íːt͡sɛ̌ːpé] - [àhôːpɔ́] - [ə́kíɲɲǎːwɨ̀]

Y [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùsɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋíʃɛ̀vé] - [hàsôːpjɔ́] - [kíɲǎːzɨ̀]

Z [kɨ̃̂wʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ̃̂w] - [ɲít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [àswîːpɔ́] - [cĩ́jǎːdɨ̀]
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sangi39
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

Spoiler:
Word 1 - Word 2 - Word 3 - Word 4 - Word 4
A [ˈt͡ɕʼiːnd͡zuː] - [guˈt͡θʼɛːŋa] - [ˌt͡ɕiːt͡sʼaˈɓeː] - [haˈðoːppɔː] - [ʈ͡ʂʼiːˈnʱaːð]
B [ˈt͡ʃʼindru] - [goˈt͡θʼɛma] - [ˈt͡ʃit͡ʃʼaˌɓe] - [haˈvoːpɔ] - [ˈt͡sʼiŋŋan]
C [ˈt͡sʼinɔs] - [goˈt͡θʼœːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaʔ] - [haˈfoʔef] - [ˈt͡sʼinɛççe]
D [ˈt͡sʼinsu] - [goˈtʼɛwm] - [ˈt͡səjt͡sʼwe] - [haˈtoːpɔ] - [ˈt͡sʼin̥n̥aj]
E [ˈkʼiːnt͡su] - [ˈxtʼɛːmə] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼəˌɓeː] - [ˈsto̰jpɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːn̥n̥aʒ]
F [ˈkʼʊ̃jsy] - [t͡θʼəˈkɔjmʊ] - [ˈkʊjt͡sʼɪˌmoj] - [ˈθo̰jpœ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼʊ̃jhɔʒ]
G [ˈkʼojxxew] - [ˈxt͡sʼĩː] - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼwaj] - [ˈxsa̰wfuː] - [ˈkʼõjhuɐ̯]
H [ˈkʼwewˌxjo] - [uˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈxwet͡ʃʼəˌvi] - [xəˈsṵfo] - [ˈkʼwennoɐ̯]
I [ˈkʼøːxuˌxøː] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxøːt͡ʃʼiˌfiː] - [xəˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼøːnɒː]
J [ˈkʼɑjxxæw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxɑjpʈ͡ʂʼiː] - [xaˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼɑjnɑː]
K [ˈkʼæjxəˌʂɑw] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxæjʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː] - [xəˈswɨfoː] - [ˈkʼæjnaːx]
L [ˈkʼeɟəˌroː] - [xəˈtʼiːm] - [ˈxeːʈʼəˌviː] - [xəˈzugʷəˌvuː] - [ˈkʼeːᵈniɐ̯]
M [ˈkʼejiˌroʋ] - [ˈxtʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʼʋiː] - [ˈgzuʋuˌʋoː] - [ˈkʼejneɐ̯]
N [ˈqʼø̃ːsy] - [ˈt͡sʼẽː] - [ˈqẽːt͡sʼe] - [ˈskøːŋø] - [ˈqʼeːner]
O [ˈqʼexsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqet͡sʼmeː] - [ˈt͡søːŋeː] - [ˈqʼeːren]
P [ˈqeŋksyː] - [ˈt͡seːmo] - [ˈqet͡smeː] - [ˈxseɲɲeː] - [ˈqeːnan]
Q [ˈʕɪːŋəˌsyː] - [ˈzˤeːmə] - [ˈqɪːzˤəˌmeː] - [xəˈseːŋeː] - [ˈʕɪːnoːnə]
R [ˈħɪŋɤˌsy] - [ʔɯˈsˤemo] - [ˈqɪsˤɛˌme] - [xɐˈsejŋe] - [ˈħɪnnɯ]
S [ˈqʼɨ̃si] - [hɨˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqɨt͡sʼɛˌme] - [qaˈsẽççe] - [ˈqʼɨlɛn]
T [ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [ˈqsẽɲeː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːlɨ]
U [kʼɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma] - [d͡ʒít͡sʼɛɓé] - [d͡ʒɛsôʃpá] - [t͡ʃʼîːnɛ̌ːlɨ]
V [kɨ́ŋuhú] - [kʰut͡sɛ́ma] - [ít͡sɛwé] - [jasø̂ːpá] - [kîːnɔ̌ːlɨ]
W [kkɨ́nosú] - [kùθθɛ́ma] - [îtt͡sɛ̀ppé] - [awôːpá] - [kkínnɔ̌ːwɨ]
X [ə́kɨ́ŋòsú] - [kǔːtɛ́mɔ̀] - [íːt͡sɛ̌ːpé] - [àhôːpɔ́] - [ə́kíɲɲǎːwɨ̀]
Y [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùsɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋíʃɛ̀vé] - [hàsôːpjɔ́] - [kíɲǎːzɨ̀]
Z [kɨ̃̂wʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ̃̂w] - [ɲít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [àswîːpɔ́] - [cĩ́jǎːdɨ̀]


So, let's try some grouping first:

Word initial consonsants in Word 1 seem to fall consistently into four distinct groups to start: A-D (glottalic affricate), E-M (glottalic velar), N-T (glottalic uvular), and U-Z (velar)

If I had to guess at any higher grouping, A-D and E-M seem to be the most closely related, followed by A-M and N-T, with U-Z branching off earlier from the proto-language


Word 1 - Word 2 - Word 3 - Word 4 - Word 4
A [ˈt͡ɕʼiːnd͡zuː] - [guˈt͡θʼɛːŋa] - [ˌt͡ɕiːt͡sʼaˈɓeː] - [haˈðoːppɔː] - [ʈ͡ʂʼiːˈnʱaːð]
B [ˈt͡ʃʼindru] - [goˈt͡θʼɛma] - [ˈt͡ʃit͡ʃʼaˌɓe] - [haˈvoːpɔ] - [ˈt͡sʼiŋŋan]
< [ˈt͡ʃʼiːndzuː] - [goˈt͡θʼɛːma] - [ˈt͡ʃiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [haˈðoːpɔː] - [ˈt͡sʼiːnhad]

C [ˈt͡sʼinɔs] - [goˈt͡θʼœːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaʔ] - [haˈfoʔef] - [ˈt͡sʼinɛççe]
D [ˈt͡sʼinsu] - [goˈtʼɛwm] - [ˈt͡səjt͡sʼwe] - [haˈtoːpɔ] - [ˈt͡sʼin̥n̥aj]
< [ˈt͡sʼinsu] - [goˈt͡θʼœːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaɓe] - [haˈθoːpɔw] - [ˈt͡sʼinhaçe]

AB[ˈt͡ʃʼiːndzuː] - [goˈt͡θʼɛːma] - [ˈt͡ʃiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [haˈðoːpɔː] - [ˈt͡sʼiːnhad]
CD[ˈt͡sʼinsu] - [goˈt͡θʼœːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaɓe] - [haˈθoːpɔw] - [ˈt͡sʼinhaçe]
<<[ˈt͡ʃʼiːnsuː] - [goˈt͡θʼɛːmo] - [ˈt͡ʃiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [haˈθoːpɔː] - [ˈt͡sʼiːnhade]


E [ˈkʼiːnt͡su] - [ˈxtʼɛːmə] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼəˌɓeː] - [ˈsto̰jpɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːn̥n̥aʒ]
F [ˈkʼʊ̃jsy] - [t͡θʼəˈkɔjmʊ] - [ˈkʊjt͡sʼɪˌmoj] - [ˈθo̰jpœ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼʊ̃jhɔʒ]
< [ˈkʼiːnsu] - [xəˈt͡θʼɛːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼəˌɓeː] - [ˈθo̰jpɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːnhɑʒ]

G [ˈkʼojxxew] - [ˈxt͡sʼĩː] - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼwaj] - [ˈxsa̰wfuː] - [ˈkʼõjhuɐ̯]
H [ˈkʼwewˌxjo] - [uˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈxwet͡ʃʼəˌvi] - [xəˈsṵfo] - [ˈkʼwennoɐ̯]
I [ˈkʼøːxuˌxøː] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxøːt͡ʃʼiˌfiː] - [xəˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼøːnɒː]
< [ˈkʼojxuˌxew] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼiˌfiː] - [xəˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼojnɑh]

J [ˈkʼɑjxxæw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxɑjpʈ͡ʂʼiː] - [xaˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼɑjnɑː]
K [ˈkʼæjxəˌʂɑw] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxæjʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː] - [xəˈswɨfoː] - [ˈkʼæjnaːx]
< [ˈkʼajxəˌʂaw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː] - [xaˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼajnaːx]

L [ˈkʼeɟəˌroː] - [xəˈtʼiːm] - [ˈxeːʈʼəˌviː] - [xəˈzugʷəˌvuː] - [ˈkʼeːᵈniɐ̯]
M [ˈkʼejiˌroʋ] - [ˈxtʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʼʋiː] - [ˈgzuʋuˌʋoː] - [ˈkʼejneɐ̯]
< [ˈkʼejiˌroː] - [xəˈtʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʼəviː] - [xəˈzuwəˌvoː] - [ˈkʼejneɐ̯]

GI[ˈkʼojxuˌxew] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼiˌfiː] - [xəˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼojnɑh]
JK[ˈkʼajxəˌʂaw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː] - [xaˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼajnaːx]
LM[ˈkʼejiˌroː] - [xʏˈtʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʼəviː] - [xəˈzuwəˌvoː] - [ˈkʼejneɐ̯]
<<[ˈkʼejxəˌroː] - [xʏˈtsʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʂʼəpiː] - [xəˈsuːˌfoː] - [ˈkʼejnax]

EF[ˈkʼiːnsu] - [xəˈt͡θʼɛːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼəˌɓeː] - [ˈθo̰jpɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːnhɑʒ]
GM[ˈkʼejxəˌroː] - [xʏˈtsʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʂʼəpiː] - [xəˈsːˌfoː] - [ˈkʼejnax]
<<[ˈkʼiːnəsu] - [xʏˈtsʼeːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡ʂʼəˌɓeː] - [xəˈsuːˌfoː] - [ˈkʼiːnax]


N [ˈqʼø̃ːsy] - [ˈt͡sʼẽː] - [ˈqẽːt͡sʼe] - [ˈskøːŋø] - [ˈqʼeːner]
O [ˈqʼexsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqet͡sʼmeː] - [ˈt͡søːŋeː] - [ˈqʼeːren]
P [ˈqeŋksyː] - [ˈt͡seːmo] - [ˈqet͡smeː] - [ˈxseɲɲeː] - [ˈqeːnan]
< [ˈqʼeŋsyː] - [ˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqet͡sʼmeː] - [ˈxseːŋeː] - [ˈqʼeːnar]

Q [ˈʕɪːŋəˌsyː] - [ˈzˤeːmə] - [ˈqɪːzˤəˌmeː] - [xəˈseːŋeː] - [ˈʕɪːnoːnə]
R [ˈħɪŋɤˌsy] - [ʔɯˈsˤemo] - [ˈqɪsˤɛˌme] - [xɐˈsejŋe] - [ˈħɪnnɯ]
< [ˈʕɪːŋɤˌsyː] - [ʔɯˈsˤemo] - [ˈqɪːsˤɛˌmeː] - [xɐˈseːŋeː] - [ˈʕɪːnoːnɯ]

S [ˈqʼɨ̃si] - [hɨˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqɨt͡sʼɛˌme] - [qaˈsẽççe] - [ˈqʼɨlɛn]
T [ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [ˈqsẽɲeː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːlɨ]
< [ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː] - [hɨˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [qɐˈsẽɲeː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːlɨ]

NP[ˈqʼeŋsyː] - [ˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqet͡sʼmeː] - [ˈxseːŋeː] - [ˈqʼeːnar]
QR[ˈʕɪːŋɤˌsyː] - [ʔɯˈsˤemo] - [ˈqɪːsˤɛˌmeː] - [xɐˈseːŋeː] - [ˈʕɪːnoːnɯ]
ST[ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː] - [hɨˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [qɐˈsẽɲeː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːlɨ]
<<[ˈqʼeːŋosyː] - [hɯˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [xɐˈseːɲeː] - [ˈqʼeːnɑːrɯ]


U [kʼɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma] - [d͡ʒít͡sʼɛɓé] - [d͡ʒɛsôʃpá] - [t͡ʃʼîːnɛ̌ːlɨ]
V [kɨ́ŋuhú] - [kʰut͡sɛ́ma] - [ít͡sɛwé] - [jasø̂ːpá] - [kîːnɔ̌ːlɨ]
< [kʼɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma] - [jít͡sʼɛɓé] - [ɟasôːʃpá] - [cʼîːnɑːlɨ]

W [kkɨ́nosú] - [kùθθɛ́ma] - [îtt͡sɛ̀ppé] - [awôːpá] - [kkínnɔ̌ːwɨ]
X [ə́kɨ́ŋòsú] - [kǔːtɛ́mɔ̀] - [íːt͡sɛ̌ːpé] - [àhôːpɔ́] - [ə́kíɲɲǎːwɨ̀]
< [ə́kɨ́ŋòsú] - [kǔtθɛ́mɔ̀] - [ítt͡sɛ̌ppé] - [àhôːpɔ́] - [ə́kínnɑːwɨ̀]

Y [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùsɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋíʃɛ̀vé] - [hàsôːpjɔ́] - [kíɲǎːzɨ̀]
Z [kɨ̃̂wʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ̃̂w] - [ɲít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [àswîːpɔ́] - [cĩ́jǎːdɨ̀]
< [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùtsɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [hàsôːpjɔ́] - [kíɲǎːdɨ̀]

UV[kʼɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma] - [jít͡sʼɛɓé] - [ɟasôːʃpá] - [cʼîːnɑːlɨ]
WX[ə́kɨ́ŋòsú] - [kǔtθɛ́mɔ̀] - [ítt͡sɛ̌ppé] - [àhôːpɔ́] - [ə́kínnɑːwɨ̀]
YZ[kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùtsɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [hàsôːpjɔ́] - [kíɲǎːdɨ̀]
<<[kʼɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùtsʼɛ́mɔ̀] - [jít͡ʃʼɛ̀ɓé] - [hàsôːpjɔ́] - [kínǎːdɨ̀]



AD[ˈt͡ʃʼiːnsuː] - [goˈt͡θʼɛːmo] - [ˈt͡ʃiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [haˈθoːpɔː] - [ˈt͡sʼiːnhade]
EM[ˈkʼiːnəsu] - [xʏˈtsʼeːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡ʂʼəˌɓeː] - [xəˈsuːˌfoː] - [ˈkʼiːnax]
<<[ˈkʼiːnəsuː] - [gʏˈtsʼeːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [xəˈsuːˌpɔː] - [ˈkʼiːnaxde]

AM[ˈkʼiːnəsuː] - [gʏˈtsʼeːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [xəˈsuːˌpɔː] - [ˈkʼiːnaxde]
NT[ˈqʼeːŋosyː] - [hɯˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [xɐˈseːɲeː] - [ˈqʼeːnɑːrɯ]
<<[ˈqʼeːŋosuː] - [guˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː] - [xɐˈseːpeː] - [ˈqʼeːnɑxde]

AT[ˈqʼeːŋosuː] - [guˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː] - [xɐˈseːpeː] - [ˈqʼeːnɑxde]
YZ[kʼɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùtsʼɛ́mɔ̀] - [jít͡ʃʼɛ̀ɓé] - [hàsôːpjɔ́] - [kínǎːdɨ̀]
<<[ˈqʼeːŋoʃuː] - [guˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː] - [xaˈseːpjɔː] - [ˈqʼeːnɑxde]

Proto-Words:
[ˈqʼeːŋoʃuː] - [guˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː] - [xaˈseːpjɔː] - [ˈqʼeːnɑxde]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
ɶʙ ɞʛ
greek
greek
Posts: 455
Joined: 02 Aug 2019 18:47

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by ɶʙ ɞʛ »

Ratsawn wrote: 04 Feb 2021 20:54
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 04 Feb 2021 17:50 What were the corresponding reflexes for other consonants? Did combinations like [ʔm], [ʔʟ], [ʔs] also produce stops? Also, you would expect [ʔv] to shift to [p], not [t].
You're right, I would expect that too, but this seemed like a case of a natlang already did it worse. The complete change is:

ʔv ʔm ʔɡ ʔr → t p k v (also the language was actually Gimi)
/ʔm ʔg/ > /p k/ make sense, but the /ʔv/ > /t/ is coupled with an opposite change /ʔr/ > /v/. This makes me feel like what really happened was:

ʔr > dz > ð
ʔð > tθ > t
ð > v
ɶʙ ɞʛ
greek
greek
Posts: 455
Joined: 02 Aug 2019 18:47

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by ɶʙ ɞʛ »

A [ˈt͡ɕʼiːnd͡zuː] - [guˈt͡θʼɛːŋa] - [ˌt͡ɕiːt͡sʼaˈɓeː] - [haˈðoːppɔː] - [ʈ͡ʂʼiːˈnʱaːð]
B [ˈt͡ʃʼindru] - [goˈt͡θʼɛma] - [ˈt͡ʃit͡ʃʼaˌɓe] - [haˈvoːpɔ] - [ˈt͡sʼiŋŋan]
AB [ˈt͡ʃ'indzu] - [goˈt͡θʼɛma] - [ˈt͡ʃit͡s'aɓe] - [haˈðoppɔ] - [ˈt͡s'inhaɗ]

C [ˈt͡sʼinɔs] - [goˈt͡θʼœːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaʔ] - [haˈfoʔef] - [ˈt͡sʼinɛççe]
D [ˈt͡sʼinsu] - [goˈtʼɛwm] - [ˈt͡səjt͡sʼwe] - [haˈtoːpɔ]- [ˈt͡sʼin̥n̥aj]
E [ˈkʼiːnt͡su] - [ˈxtʼɛːmə] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼəˌɓeː] - [ˈsto̰jpɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːn̥n̥aʒ]
CDE [ˈk'i:nɔt͡su] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈki:t͡s'aɓe] - [saˈtoʔepɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃ'i:nhaje]

AB [ˈt͡ʃ'indzu] - [goˈt͡θʼɛma] - [ˈt͡ʃit͡s'aɓe] - [haˈðoppɔ] - [ˈt͡s'inhaɗ]
CDE [ˈk'i:nɔt͡su] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈki:t͡s'aɓe] - [saˈtoʔepɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃ'i:nhaje]
A-E: [ˈk'i:nɔt͡su] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈki:t͡s'aɓe] - [saˈtoʔepɔ] - [ˈt͡s'i:nhaɗ]

F [ˈkʼʊ̃jsy] - [t͡θʼəˈkɔjmʊ] - [ˈkʊjt͡sʼɪˌmoj] - [ˈθo̰jpœ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼʊ̃jhɔʒ]
G [ˈkʼojxxew] - [ˈxt͡sʼĩː] - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼwaj] - [ˈxsa̰wfuː] - [ˈkʼõjhuɐ̯]
FG: [ˈk'õjsxew] - [ˈkt͡s'ɛjm] - [ˈkojt͡ʃ'mɔj] - [ˈksɔ̰ɥpɛw] - [ˈkʲ'õjhɔʒ]

H [ˈkʼwewˌxjo] - [uˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈxwet͡ʃʼəˌvi] - [xəˈsṵfo] - [ˈkʼwennoɐ̯]
I [ˈkʼøːxuˌxøː] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxøːt͡ʃʼiˌfiː] - [xəˈsuːfoː]- [ˈkʼøːnɒː]
HI: [ˈk'wexuˌxjo] - [xuˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxwet͡ʃ'iˌfi] - [xaˈsuʔfo:] - [ˈk'wennoɐ̯]

FG: [ˈk'õjsxew] - [ˈkt͡s'ɛjm] - [ˈkojt͡ʃ'mɔj] - [ˈksɔ̰ɥpɛw] - [ˈkʲ'õjhɔʒ]
HI: [ˈk'wexuˌxjo] - [xuˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxwet͡ʃ'iˌfi] - [xaˈsuʔfo:] - [ˈk'wennoɐ̯]
F-I: [ˈk'ɤ̃:suxø:] - [kuˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈkɤ:t͡ʃ'moj] - [kaˈsɤʔpew] - [ˈkʲ'ɤ:nnoɻ]

J [ˈkʼɑjxxæw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxɑjpʈ͡ʂʼiː] - [xaˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼɑjnɑː]
K [ˈkʼæjxəˌʂɑw] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxæjʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː] - [xəˈswɨfoː] - [ˈkʼæjnaːx]
JK [ˈk'ajxʂaw] - [xɵˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂ'pi:] - [xaˈswɨ:fo:] - [ˈk'ajna:x]

L [ˈkʼeɟəˌroː] - [xəˈtʼiːm] - [ˈxeːʈʼəˌviː] -[xəˈzugʷəˌvuː] - [ˈkʼeːᵈniɐ̯]
M [ˈkʼejiˌroʋ] - [ˈxtʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʼʋiː] - [ˈgzuʋuˌʋoː] - [ˈkʼejneɐ̯]
LM [ˈk'ejəˌroʋ] - [xəˈt'e:m] - [ˈxe:ʈ'əˌʋi:] - [xəˈzugʷəˌʋo:] - [ˈk'e:d͡neɐ̯]

JK [ˈk'ajxʂaw] - [xɵˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂ'pi:] - [xaˈswɨ:fo:] - [ˈk'ajna:x]
LM [ˈk'ejəˌroʋ] - [xəˈt'e:m] - [ˈxe:ʈ'əˌʋi:] - [xəˈzugʷəˌʋo:] - [ˈk'e:d͡neɐ̯]
J-M: [ˈk'ajhɽaw] - [xɵˈt'e:m] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂ'hwi] - [xaˈsugɨʍo:] - [ˈk'ajd͡ne:ʁ]



N [ˈqʼø̃ːsy] - [ˈt͡sʼẽː] - [ˈqẽːt͡sʼe] - [ˈskøːŋø] - [ˈqʼeːner]
O [ˈqʼexsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqet͡sʼmeː] - [ˈt͡søːŋeː] - [ˈqʼeːren]
P [ˈqeŋksyː] - [ˈt͡seːmo] - [ˈqet͡smeː] - [ˈxseɲɲeː] - [ˈqeːnan]
NOP [ˈq'eŋsy] - [ˈt͡s'em] - [ˈqemt͡s'e] - [ˈksewŋø] - [ˈq'e:ren]

Q [ˈʕɪːŋəˌsyː] - [ˈzˤeːmə] - [ˈqɪːzˤəˌmeː] - [xəˈseːŋeː] - [ˈʕɪːnoːnə]
R [ˈħɪŋɤˌsy] - [ʔɯˈsˤemo] - [ˈqɪsˤɛˌme] - [xɐˈsejŋe] - [ˈħɪnnɯ]
QR [ˈʕɪŋəˌsy] - [ɨˈsˤemo] - [ˈqɪsˤɛˌme] - [xaˈsejŋej] - [ˈʕɪnonɨ]

S [ˈqʼɨ̃si] - [hɨˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqɨt͡sʼɛˌme] - [qaˈsẽççe] - [ˈqʼɨlɛn]
T [ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [ˈqsẽɲeː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːlɨ]
ST: [ˈq'ɨ̃:si] - [ɨˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈqɨ:t͡s'ɛˌme] - [qaˈseɲhe] - [ˈq'ɨ:nɛ:l]

NOP [ˈq'eŋsy] - [ˈt͡s'em] - [ˈqemt͡s'e] - [ˈksewŋø] - [ˈq'e:ren]
QR [ˈʕɪŋəˌsy] - [ɨˈsˤemo] - [ˈqɪsˤɛˌme] - [xaˈsejŋej] - [ˈʕɪnonɨ]
ST: [ˈq'ɨ̃:si] - [ɨˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈqɨ:t͡s'ɛˌme] - [qaˈseɲhe] - [ˈq'ɨ:nɛ:l]
N-T: [ˈq'iŋsy] - [ɨˈs'em] - [ˈqis'ɛme] - [kaˈseŋhe] - [ˈq'i:ren]


U [kʼɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma] - [d͡ʒít͡sʼɛɓé] - [d͡ʒɛsôʃpá] - [t͡ʃʼîːnɛ̌ːlɨ]
V [kɨ́ŋuhú] - [kʰut͡sɛ́ma] - [ít͡sɛwé] - [jasø̂ːpá] - [kîːnɔ̌ːlɨ]
UV [kkɨ́ŋosú] - [kutt͡sɛ́ma] - [jítt͡sɛbé] - [jasôjpá] - [kkîjnǎ:lɨ]

W [kkɨ́nosú] - [kùθθɛ́ma] - [îtt͡sɛ̀ppé] - [awôːpá] - [kkínnɔ̌ːwɨ]
X [ə́kɨ́ŋòsú] - [kǔːtɛ́mɔ̀] - [íːt͡sɛ̌ːpé] - [àhôːpɔ́] - [ə́kíɲɲǎːwɨ̀]
WX [hkɨ́ŋòsú] - [kùhtɛ́mɔ̀] - [íht͡sɛ̀hpé] - [àhô:pɔ́] - [hkíɲɲǎ:wɨ̀]

Y [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùsɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋíʃɛ̀vé] - [hàsôːpjɔ́] - [kíɲǎːzɨ̀]
Z [kɨ̃̂wʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ̃̂w] - [ɲít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [àswîːpɔ́] - [cĩ́jǎːdɨ̀]
YZ [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [àsô:jpɔ́] - [kíɲǎ:dɨ̀]

UV [kkɨ́ŋosú] - [kutt͡sɛ́ma] - [jítt͡sɛbé] - [jasôjpá] - [kkîjnǎ:lɨ]
WX [hkɨ́ŋòsú] - [kùhtɛ́mɔ̀] - [íht͡sɛ̀hpé] - [àhô:pɔ́] - [hkíɲɲǎ:wɨ̀]
YZ [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [àsô:jpɔ́] - [kíɲǎ:dɨ̀]
U-Z: [k͈ɨ́ŋòs2ú] - [kùt͈͡s1ɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋít͈͡s2ɛ̀b͈é] - [ɛ̀:s1ô:jpɔ́] - [k͈íjnǎ:dɨ̀]


A-E: [ˈk'i:nɔt͡su] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈki:t͡s'aɓe] - [saˈtoʔepɔ] - [ˈt͡s'i:nhaɗ]
F-I: [ˈk'ɤ̃:suxø:] - [kuˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈkɤ:t͡ʃ'moj] - [kaˈsɤʔpew] - [ˈkʲ'ɤ:nnoɻ]
J-M: [ˈk'ajhɽaw] - [xɵˈt'e:m] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂ'hwi] - [xaˈsugɨʍo:] - [ˈk'ajd͡ne:ʁ]
N-T: [ˈq'iŋsy] - [ɨˈs'em] - [ˈqis'ɛme] - [kaˈseŋhe] - [ˈq'i:ren]
U-Z: [k͈ɨ́ŋòs2ú] - [kùt͈͡s1ɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋít͈͡s2ɛ̀b͈é] - [ɛ̀:s1ô:jpɔ́] - [k͈íjnǎ:dɨ̀]
All: [ˈk'ɨjnod͡zow] - [goˈs'ewm] - [ˈkɨjs'aɓoj] - [Xaˈtsəkpew] - [ˈk'i:nhad]
X is most likely a voiceless coronal or dorsal fricative.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar »

Would anyone else like to make an attempt before I start preparing my responses to sangi39 and ɶʙ ɞʛ? You don't need to have your response ready right away, but if you'd like to participate, please let me know and I'll wait until you get a chance to respond.
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Creyeditor
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor »

I have to skip another round. Too many cognates, not enough time.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Ratsawn »

I'm gonna have to skip this round too. Sorry about that.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar »

In response to sangi39's first attempt:
Spoiler:
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 So, let's try some grouping first:

Word initial consonsants in Word 1 seem to fall consistently into four distinct groups to start: A-D (glottalic affricate), E-M (glottalic velar), N-T (glottalic uvular), and U-Z (velar)

If I had to guess at any higher grouping, A-D and E-M seem to be the most closely related, followed by A-M and N-T, with U-Z branching off earlier from the proto-language
Please see my comments below.
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 A [ˈt͡ɕʼiːnd͡zuː] - [guˈt͡θʼɛːŋa] - [ˌt͡ɕiːt͡sʼaˈɓeː] - [haˈðoːppɔː]   - [ʈ͡ʂʼiːˈnʱaːð]
B [ˈt͡ʃʼindru]   - [goˈt͡θʼɛma]  - [ˈt͡ʃit͡ʃʼaˌɓe]   - [haˈvoːpɔ]     - [ˈt͡sʼiŋŋan]
< [ˈt͡ʃʼiːndzuː] - [goˈt͡θʼɛːma] - [ˈt͡ʃiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [haˈðoːpɔː]    - [ˈt͡sʼiːnhad]
Word 1 - There's a consonant here that isn't present in my version of this word, but I'm counting it as essentially correct. Please see my notes on the affricates below.
Word 2 - One vowel is incorrect. One consonant is partially correct, but missing something.
Word 3 - Please see my notes on the affricates below.
Word 4 - There's a segment missing.
Word 5 - One vowel is off in terms of length. There's at least one consonant here that differs from what I originally had in mind, but I'll count it as essentially correct. Please see my notes on the affricates below.

Aside from [t͡θʼ] in Word 2, none of the affricates you've reconstructed exactly match the consonants I originally had in mind. I don't want to be obnoxiously picky and force you to guess them all correctly, though, so there are a lot of alternative reconstructions I'll be willing to accept here. With that said, there is still a problem with your current reconstruction of Word 3. 
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 C [ˈt͡sʼinɔs]    - [goˈt͡θʼœːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaʔ]    - [haˈfoʔef]     - [ˈt͡sʼinɛççe]
D [ˈt͡sʼinsu]    - [goˈtʼɛwm]   - [ˈt͡səjt͡sʼwe]    - [haˈtoːpɔ]     - [ˈt͡sʼin̥n̥aj]
< [ˈt͡sʼinsu]    - [goˈt͡θʼœːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaɓe]   - [haˈθoːpɔw]    - [ˈt͡sʼinhaçe]
Word 1 - There's a syllable missing.
Word 2 - The nucleus of the stressed syllable is incorrect.
Word 3 - Essentially correct!
Word 4 - One vowel is off in terms of length, one consonant doesn't need to be there, and there's a syllable missing.
Word 5 - One incorrect segment and one missing syllable. 
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 AB[ˈt͡ʃʼiːndzuː] - [goˈt͡θʼɛːma] - [ˈt͡ʃiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [haˈðoːpɔː]    - [ˈt͡sʼiːnhad]
CD[ˈt͡sʼinsu]    - [goˈt͡θʼœːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaɓe]   - [haˈθoːpɔw]    - [ˈt͡sʼinhaçe]
<<[ˈt͡ʃʼiːnsuː]  - [goˈt͡θʼɛːmo] - [ˈt͡ʃiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [haˈθoːpɔː]    - [ˈt͡sʼiːnhade]
I'm afraid that ABCD is not a valid grouping. 
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 E [ˈkʼiːnt͡su]   - [ˈxtʼɛːmə]   - [ˈkiːt͡sʼəˌɓeː]  - [ˈsto̰jpɔ]      - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːn̥n̥aʒ]
F [ˈkʼʊ̃jsy]     - [t͡θʼəˈkɔjmʊ] - [ˈkʊjt͡sʼɪˌmoj]  - [ˈθo̰jpœ]       - [ˈt͡ʃʼʊ̃jhɔʒ]
< [ˈkʼiːnsu]    - [xəˈt͡θʼɛːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼəˌɓeː]  - [ˈθo̰jpɔ]       - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːnhɑʒ]
Word 1 - One vowel is off in terms of length.
Word 2 - One incorrect consonant, one incorrect vowel, and one extra syllable.
Word 3 - One incorrect vowel.
Word 4 - Two segments are off in terms of length alone.
Word 5 - One vowel is off in terms of length, but essentially correct in terms of quality.
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 G [ˈkʼojxxew]   - [ˈxt͡sʼĩː]    - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼwaj]    - [ˈxsa̰wfuː]     - [ˈkʼõjhuɐ̯]
H [ˈkʼwewˌxjo]  - [uˈt͡sʼem]    - [ˈxwet͡ʃʼəˌvi]   - [xəˈsṵfo]      - [ˈkʼwennoɐ̯]
I [ˈkʼøːxuˌxøː] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm]  - [ˈxøːt͡ʃʼiˌfiː]  - [xəˈsuːfoː]    - [ˈkʼøːnɒː]
< [ˈkʼojxuˌxew] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm]  - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼiˌfiː]  - [xəˈsuːfoː]    - [ˈkʼojnɑh]
Word 1 - One consonant is slightly off.
Word 2 - Please see my comments on Word 1.
Word 3 - Please see my comments on Words 1 and 2.
Word 4 - One vowel is missing something.
Word 5 - One vowel is off in terms of quality and length. One consonant is correct, but "misplaced". There's a missing segment as well. 
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 J [ˈkʼɑjxxæw]   - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm]  - [ˈxɑjpʈ͡ʂʼiː]    - [xaˈsuːfoː]    - [ˈkʼɑjnɑː]
K [ˈkʼæjxəˌʂɑw] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm]  - [ˈxæjʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː]  - [xəˈswɨfoː]    - [ˈkʼæjnaːx]
< [ˈkʼajxəˌʂaw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm]  - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː]  - [xaˈsuːfoː]    - [ˈkʼajnaːx]
Word 1 - One vowel is incorrect, although I'm realizing now that it's impossible to reconstruct based on JK alone, so I'm going to treat this as essentially correct.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Please see my comments on Word 1. 
Word 4 - The nucleus of the stressed syllable is incorrect.
Word 5 - The final consonant is off, but may be close enough.
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 L [ˈkʼeɟəˌroː]  - [xəˈtʼiːm]   - [ˈxeːʈʼəˌviː]   - [xəˈzugʷəˌvuː] - [ˈkʼeːᵈniɐ̯]
M [ˈkʼejiˌroʋ]  - [ˈxtʼeːm]    - [ˈxejʈʼʋiː]     - [ˈgzuʋuˌʋoː]   - [ˈkʼejneɐ̯]
< [ˈkʼejiˌroː]  - [xəˈtʼeːm]   - [ˈxejʈʼəviː]    - [xəˈzuwəˌvoː]  - [ˈkʼejneɐ̯]
Word 1 - The nucleus of the final syllable and the unstressed vowel are incorrect. One other segment is off in terms of length. 
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Apart from the omission of secondary stress marking, spot-on!
Word 4 - One segment is off in terms of length.
Word 5 - The nucleus of the final syllable is incorrect. One other segment is off in terms of length.
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 GI[ˈkʼojxuˌxew] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm]  - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼiˌfiː]  - [xəˈsuːfoː]    - [ˈkʼojnɑh]
JK[ˈkʼajxəˌʂaw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm]  - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː]  - [xaˈsuːfoː]    - [ˈkʼajnaːx]
LM[ˈkʼejiˌroː]  - [xʏˈtʼeːm]   - [ˈxejʈʼəviː]    - [xəˈzuwəˌvoː]  - [ˈkʼejneɐ̯]
<<[ˈkʼejxəˌroː] - [xʏˈtsʼeːm]  - [ˈxejʈʂʼəpiː]   - [xəˈsuːˌfoː]   - [ˈkʼejnax]
Word 1 - [kʼ-] is correct, and I think I'll count [-ej-] as essentially correct, but everything after that is off.  
Word 2 - The stressed syllable is correct. The pretonic vowel may be close enough.
Word 3 - [ˈx-ʈ͡ʂʼ-iː] is correct, and I think I'll count [-ej-] as essentially correct, but [-əp-] is incorrect. 
Word 4 - The pretonic vowel is incorrect, and there's a missing syllable.
Word 5 - I think I'll count [-ej-] as essentially correct, but [-a-] is off in terms of length, the final consonant is incorrect, and there's a missing segment as well.
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 EF[ˈkʼiːnsu]    - [xəˈt͡θʼɛːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼəˌɓeː]  - [ˈθo̰jpɔ]       - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːnhɑʒ]
GM[ˈkʼejxəˌroː] - [xʏˈtsʼeːm]  - [ˈxejʈʂʼəpiː]   - [xəˈsːˌfoː]    - [ˈkʼejnax]
<<[ˈkʼiːnəsu]   - [xʏˈtsʼeːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡ʂʼəˌɓeː]  - [xəˈsuːˌfoː]   - [ˈkʼiːnax]
I'm afraid that E-M is not a valid grouping. 
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 N [ˈqʼø̃ːsy]     - [ˈt͡sʼẽː]     - [ˈqẽːt͡sʼe]      - [ˈskøːŋø]      - [ˈqʼeːner]
O [ˈqʼexsiː]    - [ˈt͡sʼem]     - [ˈqet͡sʼmeː]     - [ˈt͡søːŋeː]     - [ˈqʼeːren]
P [ˈqeŋksyː]    - [ˈt͡seːmo]    - [ˈqet͡smeː]      - [ˈxseɲɲeː]     - [ˈqeːnan]
< [ˈqʼeŋsyː]    - [ˈt͡sʼeːmo]   - [ˈqet͡sʼmeː]     - [ˈxseːŋeː]     - [ˈqʼeːnar]
I'm afraid that NOP is not a valid grouping. 
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 Q [ˈʕɪːŋəˌsyː]  - [ˈzˤeːmə]    - [ˈqɪːzˤəˌmeː]   - [xəˈseːŋeː]    - [ˈʕɪːnoːnə]
R [ˈħɪŋɤˌsy]    - [ʔɯˈsˤemo]   - [ˈqɪsˤɛˌme]     - [xɐˈsejŋe]     - [ˈħɪnnɯ]
< [ˈʕɪːŋɤˌsyː]  - [ʔɯˈsˤemo]   - [ˈqɪːsˤɛˌmeː]   - [xɐˈseːŋeː]    - [ˈʕɪːnoːnɯ]
I'm afraid that QR is not a valid grouping. 
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 S [ˈqʼɨ̃si]      - [hɨˈt͡sʼem]   - [ˈqɨt͡sʼɛˌme]    - [qaˈsẽççe]     - [ˈqʼɨlɛn]
T [ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː]    - [ˈt͡sʼeːmɤ]   - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː]  - [ˈqsẽɲeː]      - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːlɨ]
< [ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː]    - [hɨˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː]  - [qɐˈsẽɲeː]     - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːlɨ]
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - The pretonic vowel is just slightly off. [-ɲ-] is incorrect.
Word 5 - One incorrect segment. 
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 NP[ˈqʼeŋsyː]    - [ˈt͡sʼeːmo]   - [ˈqet͡sʼmeː]     - [ˈxseːŋeː]     - [ˈqʼeːnar]
QR[ˈʕɪːŋɤˌsyː]  - [ʔɯˈsˤemo]   - [ˈqɪːsˤɛˌmeː]   - [xɐˈseːŋeː]    - [ˈʕɪːnoːnɯ]
ST[ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː]    - [hɨˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː]  - [qɐˈsẽɲeː]     - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːlɨ]
<<[ˈqʼeːŋosyː]  - [hɯˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡sʼɛˌmeː]  - [xɐˈseːɲeː]    - [ˈqʼeːnɑːrɯ]
Word 1 - Two vowels are off in terms of quality. Secondary stress has not been marked. 
Word 2 - One vowel is off in terms of quality.
Word 3 - Please see my comments on Word 2.
Word 4 - Two vowels are off in terms of quality, [-ɲ-] is incorrect, and there are two missing segments.
Word 5 - Two vowels are off in terms of quality, and one consonant is incorrect as well. 
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 U [kʼɨ́ŋosú]     - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma]   - [d͡ʒít͡sʼɛɓé]     - [d͡ʒɛsôʃpá]     - [t͡ʃʼîːnɛ̌ːlɨ]
V [kɨ́ŋuhú]      - [kʰut͡sɛ́ma]   - [ít͡sɛwé]        - [jasø̂ːpá]      - [kîːnɔ̌ːlɨ]
< [kʼɨ́ŋosú]     - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma]   - [jít͡sʼɛɓé]      - [ɟasôːʃpá]     - [cʼîːnɑːlɨ]
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Two incorrect consonants, and one vowel is off in terms of length.
Word 5 - One incorrect consonant. One vowel is off in terms of both quality and tone.
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 W [kkɨ́nosú]     - [kùθθɛ́ma]    - [îtt͡sɛ̀ppé]      - [awôːpá]       - [kkínnɔ̌ːwɨ]
X [ə́kɨ́ŋòsú]     - [kǔːtɛ́mɔ̀]    - [íːt͡sɛ̌ːpé]      - [àhôːpɔ́]       - [ə́kíɲɲǎːwɨ̀]
< [ə́kɨ́ŋòsú]     - [kǔtθɛ́mɔ̀]    - [ítt͡sɛ̌ppé]      - [àhôːpɔ́]       - [ə́kínnɑːwɨ̀]
Word 1 - One extra syllable. Another vowel has the incorrect tone.
Word 2 - Two vowels have the incorrect tones. One incorrect consonant.
Word 3 - Two incorrect consonants. One vowel has the incorrect tone.
Word 4 - One vowel has the incorrect tone.
Word 5 - One extra syllable. Two other vowels have the incorrect tones, and one is slightly off in terms of quality as well. 
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 Y [kɨ́ŋòʃú]      - [kùsɛ́mɔ̀]     - [ŋíʃɛ̀vé]        - [hàsôːpjɔ́]     - [kíɲǎːzɨ̀]
Z [kɨ̃̂wʃú]       - [kùt͡sɛ̃̂w]     - [ɲít͡ʃɛ̀bé]       - [àswîːpɔ́]      - [cĩ́jǎːdɨ̀]
< [kɨ́ŋòʃú]      - [kùtsɛ́mɔ̀]    - [ŋít͡ʃɛ̀bé]       - [hàsôːpjɔ́]     - [kíɲǎːdɨ̀]
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Assuming the second consonant is intended to be an affricate, spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - One vowel is off in terms of length, and one consonant is "misplaced".
Word 5 - Spot-on!
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 UV[kʼɨ́ŋosú]     - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma]   - [jít͡sʼɛɓé]      - [ɟasôːʃpá]     - [cʼîːnɑːlɨ]
WX[ə́kɨ́ŋòsú]     - [kǔtθɛ́mɔ̀]    - [ítt͡sɛ̌ppé]      - [àhôːpɔ́]       - [ə́kínnɑːwɨ̀]
YZ[kɨ́ŋòʃú]      - [kùtsɛ́mɔ̀]    - [ŋít͡ʃɛ̀bé]       - [hàsôːpjɔ́]     - [kíɲǎːdɨ̀]
<<[kʼɨ́ŋòʃú]     - [kùtsʼɛ́mɔ̀]   - [jít͡ʃʼɛ̀ɓé]      - [hàsôːpjɔ́]     - [kínǎːdɨ̀]
Word 1 - One vowel has the incorrect tone. Please see my notes on the sibilants below. 
Word 2 - Two vowels have the incorrect tones. Please see my notes on the sibilants below.
Word 3 - One vowel has the incorrect tone. At least one consonant is incorrect. Please see my notes on the sibilants below.
Word 4 - One vowel has the incorrect tone. Another vowel is off in terms of length, and one consonant is "misplaced". Please see my notes on the sibilants below.
Word 5 - One vowel has the incorrect tone. Two consonants are incorrect, and another is missing. 

None of the sibilants you've reconstructed here exactly match the ones I originally had in mind. I don't want to be obnoxiously picky and force you to guess them all correctly, though, so I may accept what you have as essentially correct.
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 AD[ˈt͡ʃʼiːnsuː]  - [goˈt͡θʼɛːmo] - [ˈt͡ʃiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [haˈθoːpɔː]    - [ˈt͡sʼiːnhade]
EM[ˈkʼiːnəsu]   - [xʏˈtsʼeːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡ʂʼəˌɓeː]  - [xəˈsuːˌfoː]   - [ˈkʼiːnax]
<<[ˈkʼiːnəsuː]  - [gʏˈtsʼeːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː]  - [xəˈsuːˌpɔː]   - [ˈkʼiːnaxde]
I'm afraid that A-M is not a valid grouping.
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 AM[ˈkʼiːnəsuː]  - [gʏˈtsʼeːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː]  - [xəˈsuːˌpɔː]   - [ˈkʼiːnaxde]
NT[ˈqʼeːŋosyː]  - [hɯˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡sʼɛˌmeː]  - [xɐˈseːɲeː]    - [ˈqʼeːnɑːrɯ]
<<[ˈqʼeːŋosuː]  - [guˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː]  - [xɐˈseːpeː]    - [ˈqʼeːnɑxde]
I'm afraid that A-T is not a valid grouping.
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 AT[ˈqʼeːŋosuː]  - [guˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː]  - [xɐˈseːpeː]    - [ˈqʼeːnɑxde]
YZ[kʼɨ́ŋòʃú]     - [kùtsʼɛ́mɔ̀]   - [jít͡ʃʼɛ̀ɓé]      - [hàsôːpjɔ́]     - [kínǎːdɨ̀]
<<[ˈqʼeːŋoʃuː]  - [guˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː]  - [xaˈseːpjɔː]   - [ˈqʼeːnɑxde]
sangi39 wrote: 26 Feb 2021 13:16 Proto-Words:
[ˈqʼeːŋoʃuː]  - [guˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqeːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː]  - [xaˈseːpjɔː]   - [ˈqʼeːnɑxde]
Word 1 - Three or four correct segments
Word 2 - Three or four correct segments
Word 3 - Four or five correct segments
Word 4 - Four or five correct segments
Word 5 - One correct segment

What I said in response to your reconstruction of U-Z above, regarding the sibilants, also applies here. That's why, for example, you've either reconstructed four or five of the segments in Word 3 correctly.
shimobaatar
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar »

In response to ɶʙ ɞʛ's first attempt:
Spoiler:
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 AB [ˈt͡ʃ'indzu] - [goˈt͡θʼɛma] - [ˈt͡ʃit͡s'aɓe] - [haˈðoppɔ] - [ˈt͡s'inhaɗ]
Word 1 - There's a consonant here that isn't present in my version of this word, but I'm counting it as essentially correct. Both vowels are off in terms of length. Please see my notes on the affricates below.
Word 2 - One vowel is off in terms of quality, and another is off in terms of length. One consonant is partially correct, but missing something. 
Word 3 - Two vowels are off in terms of length, and secondary stress hasn't been marked. Please see my notes on the affricates below.
Word 4 - Two vowels are off in terms of length. One consonant is incorrect.
Word 5 - Both vowels are off in terms of length. There's at least one consonant here that differs from what I originally had in mind, but I'll count it as essentially correct. Another consonant is incorrect, but not extremely far off. Please see my notes on the affricates below.

Aside from [t͡θʼ] in Word 2, none of the affricates you've reconstructed exactly match the consonants I originally had in mind. I don't want to be obnoxiously picky and force you to guess them all correctly, though, so there are a lot of alternative reconstructions I'll be willing to accept here. With that said, there is still a problem with your current reconstruction of Word 3. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 CDE [ˈk'i:nɔt͡su] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈki:t͡s'aɓe] - [saˈtoʔepɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃ'i:nhaje]
I'm afraid that CDE is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 A-E: [ˈk'i:nɔt͡su] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈki:t͡s'aɓe] - [saˈtoʔepɔ] - [ˈt͡s'i:nhaɗ]
I'm afraid that A-E is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 FG: [ˈk'õjsxew] - [ˈkt͡s'ɛjm] - [ˈkojt͡ʃ'mɔj] - [ˈksɔ̰ɥpɛw] - [ˈkʲ'õjhɔʒ]
I'm afraid that FG is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 HI: [ˈk'wexuˌxjo] - [xuˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxwet͡ʃ'iˌfi] - [xaˈsuʔfo:] - [ˈk'wennoɐ̯]
I'm afraid that HI is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 F-I: [ˈk'ɤ̃:suxø:] - [kuˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈkɤ:t͡ʃ'moj] - [kaˈsɤʔpew] - [ˈkʲ'ɤ:nnoɻ]
I'm afraid that F-I is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 JK [ˈk'ajxʂaw] - [xɵˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂ'pi:] - [xaˈswɨ:fo:] - [ˈk'ajna:x]
Word 1 - There's a missing syllable.
Word 2 - The pretonic vowel is incorrect, but may be close enough.
Word 3 - There's a missing syllable.
Word 4 - [-wɨː-] is incorrect.
Word 5 - The final consonant is incorrect, but may be close enough. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 LM [ˈk'ejəˌroʋ] - [xəˈt'e:m] - [ˈxe:ʈ'əˌʋi:] - [xəˈzugʷəˌʋo:] - [ˈk'e:d͡neɐ̯]
Word 1 - One consonant is incorrect and another is off in terms of length.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - The nucleus of the stressed syllable is partially incorrect. [-ʋ-] is probably close enough. 
Word 4 - [-gʷ-] is incorrect, but [-ʋ-] is probably close enough. 
Word 5 - Everything after [kʼ-] is incorrect, although the nuclei of both syllables are only partially off. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 J-M: [ˈk'ajhɽaw] - [xɵˈt'e:m] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂ'hwi] - [xaˈsugɨʍo:] - [ˈk'ajd͡ne:ʁ]
I'm afraid that J-M is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 NOP [ˈq'eŋsy] - [ˈt͡s'em] - [ˈqemt͡s'e] - [ˈksewŋø] - [ˈq'e:ren]
I'm afraid that NOP is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 QR [ˈʕɪŋəˌsy] - [ɨˈsˤemo] - [ˈqɪsˤɛˌme] - [xaˈsejŋej] - [ˈʕɪnonɨ]
I'm afraid that QR is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 ST: [ˈq'ɨ̃:si] - [ɨˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈqɨ:t͡s'ɛˌme] - [qaˈseɲhe] - [ˈq'ɨ:nɛ:l]
Word 1 - One vowel is off in terms of length.
Word 2 - Two segments are missing, but all those present are correct.
Word 3 - One vowel is off in terms of length.
Word 4 - One vowel is off in terms of length. The stressed vowel is partially correct. [-ɲ-] is incorrect.
Word 5 - One segment is incorrect, and there's a missing syllable. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 N-T: [ˈq'iŋsy] - [ɨˈs'em] - [ˈqis'ɛme] - [kaˈseŋhe] - [ˈq'i:ren]
Word 1 - The two vowels you've reconstructed here are correct in terms of quality, but not in terms of length. The consonants are all correct, but there's a missing syllable. 
Word 2 - Only [-m-] is entirely correct. One vowel is off in terms of quality and another is off in terms of length. There are also two segments missing. 
Word 3 - [q-], [-ɛ-], and [-m-] are correct. The other two vowels are off in terms of length. Secondary stress has not been marked.
Word 4 - [s-], [-ŋ-], and [-h-] are correct. All vowels are off in terms of quality, and two are also off in terms of length. One consonant is incorrect. There's a missing syllable as well.
Word 5 - [ˈqʼiː-n-] is correct. [-e-] is off in terms of quality and length, [-r-] is incorrect, and there's a missing syllable. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 UV [kkɨ́ŋosú]  - [kutt͡sɛ́ma] - [jítt͡sɛbé] - [jasôjpá] - [kkîjnǎ:lɨ]
Word 1 - [kk-] is incorrect.
Word 2 - [-tt͡s-] is incorrect.
Word 3 - [-tt͡s-] is incorrect. [-b-] is also incorrect, but may be close enough.
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - [kk-] and [-j-] are incorrect. One vowel is off in terms of length. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 WX [hkɨ́ŋòsú] - [kùhtɛ́mɔ̀] - [íht͡sɛ̀hpé] - [àhô:pɔ́] - [hkíɲɲǎ:wɨ̀]
Word 1 - One consonant is incorrect. One vowel has the incorrect tone.
Word 2 - Two consonants are incorrect. Two vowels have the incorrect tones.
Word 3 - Two consonants are incorrect. One vowel has the incorrect tone.
Word 4 - One vowel has the incorrect tone.
Word 5 - Three consonants are incorrect. One vowel has the incorrect tone.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 YZ [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [àsô:jpɔ́] - [kíɲǎ:dɨ̀]
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - One vowel is off in terms of length, and there's a missing consonant.
Word 5 - Spot-on!
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 U-Z: [k͈ɨ́ŋòs2ú] - [kùt͈͡s1ɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋít͈͡s2ɛ̀b͈é] - [ɛ̀:s1ô:jpɔ́] - [k͈íjnǎ:dɨ̀]
Word 1 - One vowel has the incorrect tone. Please see my notes below.
Word 2 - Two vowels have the incorrect tones. Please see my notes below.
Word 3 - At least one consonant is incorrect. One vowel has the incorrect tone. Please see my notes below.
Word 4 - One vowel is off in terms of length. Another is off in terms of quality, length, and tone. There's a missing consonant. Please see my notes below.
Word 5 - At least one consonant is incorrect. Another consonant is "misplaced". One vowel has the incorrect tone. Please see my notes below.

Every instance of [C͈] in your reconstruction is incorrect. I'm not sure what the numbers are intended to mean, so I've ignored them and the adjacent consonants for now.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 28 Feb 2021 01:24 All: [ˈk'ɨjnod͡zow] - [goˈs'ewm] - [ˈkɨjs'aɓoj] - [Xaˈtsəkpew] - [ˈk'i:nhad]
X is most likely a voiceless coronal or dorsal fricative.
Word 1 - Two correct segments 
Word 2 - Two correct segments
Word 3 - One correct segment
Word 4 - Two correct segments
Word 5 - Four correct segments

The initial consonant of Word 4 is indeed a voiceless coronal or dorsal fricative. To clarify, I haven't counted that as one of the two segments you've reconstructed correctly there. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by ɶʙ ɞʛ »

Second attempt:

A [ˈt͡ɕʼiːnd͡zuː] - [guˈt͡θʼɛːŋa] - [ˌt͡ɕiːt͡sʼaˈɓeː] - [haˈðoːppɔː] - [ʈ͡ʂʼiːˈnʱaːð]
B [ˈt͡ʃʼindru] - [goˈt͡θʼɛma] - [ˈt͡ʃit͡ʃʼaˌɓe] - [haˈvoːpɔ] - [ˈt͡sʼiŋŋan]
AB: [ˈt͡ɕ'i:nzu:] - [gʊˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈt͡ɕi:t͡s'aˌɓe] - [haˈðo:ppɔ:] - [ˈʈ͡ʂ'i:nha:ð]

C [ˈt͡sʼinɔs] - [goˈt͡θʼœːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaʔ] - [haˈfoʔef] - [ˈt͡sʼinɛççe]
D [ˈt͡sʼinsu] - [goˈtʼɛwm] - [ˈt͡səjt͡sʼwe] - [haˈtoːpɔ]- [ˈt͡sʼin̥n̥aj]
CD: [ˈt͡s'insu] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈt͡si:t͡s'aɓe] - [haˈθoʔfɔ] - [ˈt͡s'inhaje]
ABCD: [ˈt͡s'insu] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈt͡si:t͡s'aɓe] - [haˈθoʔfɔ] - [ˈʈ͡ʂ'inhaðe]

E [ˈkʼiːnt͡su] - [ˈxtʼɛːmə] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼəˌɓeː] - [ˈsto̰jpɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːn̥n̥aʒ]
F [ˈkʼʊ̃jsy] - [t͡θʼəˈkɔjmʊ] - [ˈkʊjt͡sʼɪˌmoj] - [ˈθo̰jpœ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼʊ̃jhɔʒ]
EF: [ˈk'i:nsu] - [ˈkt͡θ'ɛ:mə] - [ˈki:t͡s'əˌɓe:] - [ˈsθo̰jpɞ] - [ˈt͡ʃ'i:nhɔʒ]

ABCD: [ˈt͡s'insu] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈt͡si:t͡s'aɓe] - [haˈθoʔfɔ] - [ˈʈ͡ʂ'inhaðe]
EF: [ˈk'i:nsu] - [ˈkt͡θ'ɛ:mə] - [ˈki:t͡s'əˌɓe:] - [ˈsθo̰jpɞ] - [ˈt͡ʃ'i:nhɔʒ]
A-F: [ˈk'i:nsu] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈki:t͡s'əɓe:] - [ˈsθojʔfɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃ'i:nhade]

G [ˈkʼojxxew] - [ˈxt͡sʼĩː] - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼwaj] - [ˈxsa̰wfuː] - [ˈkʼõjhuɐ̯]
H [ˈkʼwewˌxjo] - [uˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈxwet͡ʃʼəˌvi] - [xəˈsṵfo] - [ˈkʼwennoɐ̯]
I [ˈkʼøːxuˌxøː] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxøːt͡ʃʼiˌfiː] - [xəˈsuːfoː]- [ˈkʼøːnɒː]
GHI: [ˈk'ojxuxew] - [xəˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxojt͡ʃ'əˌvi:] - [ˈxsṵ:fo:] - [ˈk'ojnhoɐ̯]

J [ˈkʼɑjxxæw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxɑjpʈ͡ʂʼiː] - [xaˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼɑjnɑː]
K [ˈkʼæjxəˌʂɑw] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxæjʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː] - [xəˈswɨfoː] - [ˈkʼæjnaːx]
JK [ˈk'ajxəʂaw] - [xɵˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂ'əpi:] - [xaˈsu:fo:] - [ˈk'ajna:χ]

GHI: [ˈk'ojxuxew] - [xəˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxojt͡ʃ'əˌvi:] - [ˈxsṵ:fo:] - [ˈk'ojnhoɐ̯]
JK [ˈk'ajxəʂaw] - [xɵˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂ'əpi:] - [xaˈsu:fo:] - [ˈk'ajna:χ]
G-K: [ˈk'i:xuʃu:] - [xoˈt͡s'ɛ:m] - [ˈxi:t͡ʃ'eˌɓe:] - [xaˈso:ʔfɔ:] - [ˈk'i:nha:ʁ]

L [ˈkʼeɟəˌroː] - [xəˈtʼiːm] - [ˈxeːʈʼəˌviː] -[xəˈzugʷəˌvuː] - [ˈkʼeːᵈniɐ̯]
M [ˈkʼejiˌroʋ] - [ˈxtʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʼʋiː] - [ˈgzuʋuˌʋoː] - [ˈkʼejneɐ̯]
LM [ˈk'ejəˌrow] - [xəˈt'e:m] - [ˈxejʈ'əˌvi:] - [xəˈzuwəˌvo:] - [ˈk'ejnneɐ̯]

N [ˈqʼø̃ːsy] - [ˈt͡sʼẽː] - [ˈqẽːt͡sʼe] - [ˈskøːŋø] - [ˈqʼeːner]
O [ˈqʼexsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqet͡sʼmeː] - [ˈt͡søːŋeː] - [ˈqʼeːren]
NO [ˈq'eŋsy] - [ˈt͡s'em] - [ˈqet͡s'me] - [ˈksøŋew] - [ˈq'ener]

P [ˈqeŋksyː] - [ˈt͡seːmo] - [ˈqet͡smeː] - [ˈxseɲɲeː] - [ˈqeːnan]
Q [ˈʕɪːŋəˌsyː] - [ˈzˤeːmə] - [ˈqɪːzˤəˌmeː] - [xəˈseːŋeː] - [ˈʕɪːnoːnə]
R [ˈħɪŋɤˌsy] - [ʔɯˈsˤemo] - [ˈqɪsˤɛˌme] - [xɐˈsejŋe] - [ˈħɪnnɯ]
PQR [ˈq'eŋsy:] - [ɨˈs'em] - [ˈqes'me] - [ˈxsejŋe] - [ˈq'enan]

S [ˈqʼɨ̃si] - [hɨˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqɨt͡sʼɛˌme] - [qaˈsẽççe] - [ˈqʼɨlɛn]
T [ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [ˈqsẽɲeː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːlɨ]
ST: [ˈq'ɨ̃si] - [hɨˈt͡s'emə] - [ˈqɨt͡s'ɛˌme] - [qaˈseŋhe] - [ˈq'ɨnɛlə]

NO [ˈq'eŋsy] - [ˈt͡s'em] - [ˈqet͡s'me] - [ˈksøŋew] - [ˈq'ener]
PQR [ˈq'eŋsy:] - [ɨˈs'em] - [ˈqes'me] - [ˈxsejŋe] - [ˈq'enan]
ST: [ˈq'ɨ̃si] - [hɨˈt͡s'emə] - [ˈqɨt͡s'ɛˌme] - [qaˈseŋhe] - [ˈq'ɨnɛlə]
N-T: [ˈq'iŋsy] - [hɨˈs'emə] - [ˈqis'ɛme] - [kaˈsøŋhe] - [ˈq'inɛr]

G-K: [ˈk'i:xuʃu:] - [xoˈt͡s'ɛ:m] - [ˈxi:t͡ʃ'eˌɓe:] - [xaˈso:ʔfɔ:] - [ˈk'i:nha:ʁ]
LM [ˈk'ejəˌrow] - [xəˈt'e:m] - [ˈxejʈ'əˌvi:] - [xəˈzuwəˌvo:] - [ˈk'ejnneɐ̯]
N-T: [ˈq'iŋsy] - [hɨˈs'emə] - [ˈqis'ɛme] - [kaˈsøŋhe] - [ˈq'inɛr]
G-T: [ˈk'iŋsju:] - [xuˈs'ɛ:m] - [ˈki:ʂ'ɛɓe:] - [kaˈsojʔvɔ:] - [ˈk'inhar]

U [kʼɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma] - [d͡ʒít͡sʼɛɓé] - [d͡ʒɛsôʃpá] - [t͡ʃʼîːnɛ̌ːlɨ]
V [kɨ́ŋuhú] - [kʰut͡sɛ́ma] - [ít͡sɛwé] - [jasø̂ːpá] - [kîːnɔ̌ːlɨ]
UV [k'ɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡s'ɛ́ma] - [jít͡s'ɛɓé] - [jasôjpá] - [kî:nǎ:lɨ]

W [kkɨ́nosú] - [kùθθɛ́ma] - [îtt͡sɛ̀ppé] - [awôːpá] - [kkínnɔ̌ːwɨ]
X [ə́kɨ́ŋòsú] - [kǔːtɛ́mɔ̀] - [íːt͡sɛ̌ːpé] - [àhôːpɔ́] - [ə́kíɲɲǎːwɨ̀]
WX [ʔkɨ́ŋosú] - [kùʔθɛ́mɔ] - [íʔt͡sɛʔpé] - [ahô:pɔ́] - [ʔkíɲɲǎ:wɨ̀]

Y [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùsɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋíʃɛ̀vé] - [hàsôːpjɔ́] - [kíɲǎːzɨ̀]
Z [kɨ̃̂wʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ̃̂w] - [ɲít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [àswîːpɔ́] - [cĩ́jǎːdɨ̀]
YZ [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [hàsôjpɔ́] - [kíɲǎ:dɨ̀]

UV [k'ɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡s'ɛ́ma] - [jít͡s'ɛɓé] - [jasôjpá] - [kî:nǎ:lɨ]
WX [ʔkɨ́ŋosú] - [kùʔθɛ́mɔ] - [íʔt͡sɛʔpé] - [ahô:pɔ́] - [ʔkíɲɲǎ:wɨ̀]
YZ [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [hàsôjpɔ́] - [kíɲǎ:dɨ̀]
U-Z: [k'ɨ́ŋoʃú] - [kùʔθɛ́mɔ] - [íʔt͡sɛɓé] - [hasôjpɔ́] - [k'ínŋǎ:dɨ̀]

A-F: [ˈk'i:nsu] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈki:t͡s'əɓe:] - [ˈsθojʔfɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃ'i:nhade]
G-T: [ˈk'iŋsju:] - [xuˈs'ɛ:m] - [ˈki:ʂ'ɛɓe:] - [kaˈsojʔvɔ:] - [ˈk'inhar]
U-Z: [k'ɨ́ŋoʃú] - [kùʔθɛ́mɔ] - [íʔt͡sɛɓé] - [hasôjpɔ́] - [k'ínŋǎ:dɨ̀]
All: [ˈk'ɨŋsju] - [goˈs'ɛwma] - [ˈkiʃ'əɓe] - [xaˈsojʔfɔ] - [ˈk'inhade]
shimobaatar
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar »

I've prepared my response to ɶʙ ɞʛ's second attempt, but I'd really like for the game to have more than one participant per round, if possible. I'm personally willing to wait if anyone wants to participate, but is currently too busy to do so.
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sangi39
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

shimobaatar wrote: 30 Mar 2021 17:47 I've prepared my response to ɶʙ ɞʛ's second attempt, but I'd really like for the game to have more than one participant per round, if possible. I'm personally willing to wait if anyone wants to participate, but is currently too busy to do so.
I massively fell behind on this (I took on additional evening and weekend homeworking shifts to cover higher workloads and holidays, but also to make up for lending money to friends to help them through some difficult times) so my online presence has been next to zero.

I'm off for the next ten days, though, so I will work on a second attempt over the weekend (I can already see that branching is going to be a major part of my second attempt, lol).

Huge apologies for the delay (I told ɶʙ ɞʛ that I'd make an attempt to take part in this round - before the previous one was over - but I've not lived up to that).
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar »

sangi39 wrote: 02 Apr 2021 01:19
shimobaatar wrote: 30 Mar 2021 17:47 I've prepared my response to ɶʙ ɞʛ's second attempt, but I'd really like for the game to have more than one participant per round, if possible. I'm personally willing to wait if anyone wants to participate, but is currently too busy to do so.
I massively fell behind on this (I took on additional evening and weekend homeworking shifts to cover higher workloads and holidays, but also to make up for lending money to friends to help them through some difficult times) so my online presence has been next to zero.

I'm off for the next ten days, though, so I will work on a second attempt over the weekend (I can already see that branching is going to be a major part of my second attempt, lol).

Huge apologies for the delay (I told ɶʙ ɞʛ that I'd make an attempt to take part in this round - before the previous one was over - but I've not lived up to that).
No worries at all! I personally have no problem waiting, and what you've been up to is, of course, far more important than this game.
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qwed117
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by qwed117 »

shimobaatar wrote: 30 Mar 2021 17:47 I've prepared my response to ɶʙ ɞʛ's second attempt, but I'd really like for the game to have more than one participant per round, if possible. I'm personally willing to wait if anyone wants to participate, but is currently too busy to do so.
I know I participated in the past, but I've found it relatively difficult to keep track with more than 10 descendants and 4 words, so I've had to tee out as of late, especially with my high workload last quarter. I can try wrangle something up now, but it wouldn't be a worthwhile endeavor
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

The SqwedgePad
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

Spoiler:
Word 1 - Word 2 - Word 3 - Word 4 - Word 5
A [ˈt͡ɕʼiːnd͡zuː] - [guˈt͡θʼɛːŋa] - [ˌt͡ɕiːt͡sʼaˈɓeː] - [haˈðoːppɔː] - [ʈ͡ʂʼiːˈnʱaːð]
B [ˈt͡ʃʼindru] - [goˈt͡θʼɛma] - [ˈt͡ʃit͡ʃʼaˌɓe] - [haˈvoːpɔ] - [ˈt͡sʼiŋŋan]
< [ˈt͡ʃʼiːndzuː] - [guˈt͡θʼɛːma] - [ˈt͡ʃiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [haˈðoːppɔː] - [ˈt͡sʼiːnhaːd]

C [ˈt͡sʼinɔs] - [goˈt͡θʼœːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaʔ] - [haˈfoʔef] - [ˈt͡sʼinɛççe]
D [ˈt͡sʼinsu] - [goˈtʼɛwm] - [ˈt͡səjt͡sʼwe] - [haˈtoːpɔ] - [ˈt͡sʼin̥n̥aj]
< [ˈt͡sʼinɔsu] - [goˈt͡θʼɛːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaɓe] - [haˈθoːwepɔ] - [ˈt͡sʼinahaje]

E [ˈkʼiːnt͡su] - [ˈxtʼɛːmə] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼəˌɓeː] - [ˈsto̰jpɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːn̥n̥aʒ]
F [ˈkʼʊ̃jsy] - [t͡θʼəˈkɔjmʊ] - [ˈkʊjt͡sʼɪˌmoj] - [ˈθo̰jpœ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼʊ̃jhɔʒ]
< [ˈkʼiːnsuː] - [ˈxtʼɛːmʊ] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼɪˌɓeː] - [ˈθo̰jpɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːnhɑːʒ]


AB[ˈt͡ʃʼiːndzuː] - [guˈt͡θʼɛːma] - [ˈt͡ʃiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [haˈðoːppɔː] - [ˈt͡sʼiːnhaːd]
CD[ˈt͡sʼinɔsu] - [goˈt͡θʼɛːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaɓe] - [haˈθoːwepɔ] - [ˈt͡sʼinahaje]
EF[ˈkʼiːnsuː] - [ˈxtʼɛːmʊ] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼɪˌɓeː] - [ˈθo̰jpɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːnhɑːʒ]
<<[ˈkʼiːnɔsuː] - [ˈgutʼɛːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼɛˌɓeː] - [haˈθoːwepɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːnahɑːde]


G [ˈkʼojxxew] - [ˈxt͡sʼĩː] - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼwaj] - [ˈxsa̰wfuː] - [ˈkʼõjhuɐ̯]
H [ˈkʼwewˌxjo] - [uˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈxwet͡ʃʼəˌvi] - [xəˈsṵfo] - [ˈkʼwennoɐ̯]
I [ˈkʼøːxuˌxøː] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxøːt͡ʃʼiˌfiː] - [xəˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼøːnɒː]
< [ˈkʼojxuˌxew] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼiˌfiː] - [xəˈsṵːfoː] - [ˈkʼojnhɑː]

J [ˈkʼɑjxxæw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxɑjpʈ͡ʂʼiː] - [xaˈsuːfoː] - [ˈkʼɑjnɑː]
K [ˈkʼæjxəˌʂɑw] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxæjʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː] - [xəˈswɨfoː] - [ˈkʼæjnaːx]
< [ˈkʼajxəˌʂaw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː] - [xaˈsyːfoː] - [ˈkʼajnaːħ]

L [ˈkʼeɟəˌroː] - [xəˈtʼiːm] - [ˈxeːʈʼəˌviː] - [xəˈzugʷəˌvuː] - [ˈkʼeːᵈniɐ̯]
M [ˈkʼejiˌroʋ] - [ˈxtʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʼʋiː] - [ˈgzuʋuˌʋoː] - [ˈkʼejneɐ̯]
< [ˈkʼejːəˌroː] - [xəˈtʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʼəˌviː] - [xəˈzuwəˌvoː] - [ˈkʼejnaːɐ̯]


GI[ˈkʼojxuˌxew] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼiˌfiː] - [xəˈsṵːfoː] - [ˈkʼojnhɑː]
JK[ˈkʼajxəˌʂaw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː] - [xaˈsyːfoː] - [ˈkʼajnaːħ]
LM[ˈkʼejːəˌroː] - [xəˈtʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʼəˌviː] - [xəˈzuwəˌvoː] - [ˈkʼejnaːɐ̯]
<<[ˈkʼejxəˌsuː] - [xʏˈtsʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʂʼibiː] - [xəˈsuwəˌfoː] - [ˈkʼejnaːħɐ]


N [ˈqʼø̃ːsy] - [ˈt͡sʼẽː] - [ˈqẽːt͡sʼe] - [ˈskøːŋø] - [ˈqʼeːner]
O [ˈqʼexsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqet͡sʼmeː] - [ˈt͡søːŋeː] - [ˈqʼeːren]
< [ˈqʼexsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqeːt͡sʼemeː] - [ˈksøːŋøː] - [ˈqʼeːnen]

P [ˈqeŋksyː] - [ˈt͡seːmo] - [ˈqet͡smeː] - [ˈxseɲɲeː] - [ˈqeːnan]
Q [ˈʕɪːŋəˌsyː] - [ˈzˤeːmə] - [ˈqɪːzˤəˌmeː] - [xəˈseːŋeː] - [ˈʕɪːnoːnə]
R [ˈħɪŋɤˌsy] - [ʔɯˈsˤemo] - [ˈqɪsˤɛˌme] - [xɐˈsejŋe] - [ˈħɪnnɯ]
< [ˈqɪːŋəˌsyː] - [ʔɯˈtsˤemo] - [ˈqɪːtsˤɛˌmeː] - [xəˈsejŋeː] - [ˈqɪːnoːnɯ]

S [ˈqʼɨ̃si] - [hɨˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqɨt͡sʼɛˌme] - [qaˈsẽççe] - [ˈqʼɨlɛn]
T [ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [ˈqsẽɲeː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːlɨ]
< [ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː] - [hɨˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [qəˈsẽjeː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːnɨ]

NO[ˈqʼexsiː] - [ˈt͡sʼem] - [ˈqeːt͡sʼemeː] - [ˈksøːŋøː] - [ˈqʼeːnen]
PR[ˈqɪːŋəˌsyː] - [ʔɯˈtsˤemo] - [ˈqɪːtsˤɛˌmeː] - [xəˈsejŋeː] - [ˈqɪːnoːnɯ]
ST[ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː] - [hɨˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [qɐˈsẽɲeː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːnɨ]
<<[ˈqʼɨːŋəˌsyː] - [hɨˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [xɐˈsøːŋøː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɑːnɨ]


U [kʼɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma] - [d͡ʒít͡sʼɛɓé] - [d͡ʒɛsôʃpá] - [t͡ʃʼîːnɛ̌ːlɨ]
V [kɨ́ŋuhú] - [kʰut͡sɛ́ma] - [ít͡sɛwé] - [jasø̂ːpá] - [kîːnɔ̌ːlɨ]
< [kʼɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma] - [jít͡sʼɛɓé] - [jasôjpá] - [kʼîːnǎːlɨ]

W [kkɨ́nosú] - [kùθθɛ́ma] - [îtt͡sɛ̀ppé] - [awôːpá] - [kkínnɔ̌ːwɨ]
X [ə́kɨ́ŋòsú] - [kǔːtɛ́mɔ̀] - [íːt͡sɛ̌ːpé] - [àhôːpɔ́] - [ə́kíɲɲǎːwɨ̀]
< [kkɨ́ŋosú] - [kùttɛ́mɔ] - [íːt͡sɛ̀ːpé] - [ahôːpɔ́] - [kkínnǎːwɨ]

Y [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùsɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋíʃɛ̀vé] - [hàsôːpjɔ́] - [kíɲǎːzɨ̀]
Z [kɨ̃̂wʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ̃̂w] - [ɲít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [àswîːpɔ́] - [cĩ́jǎːdɨ̀]
< [kɨ́ŋoʃú] - [kutsɛ́mɔ] - [ŋít͡ʃɛbé] - [hasôjpɔ́] - [kínjǎːlɨ̀]

UV[kʼɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma] - [jít͡sʼɛɓé] - [jasôjpá] - [kʼîːnǎːlɨ]
WX[kkɨ́ŋosú] - [kùttɛ́mɔ] - [íːt͡sɛ̀ːpé] - [ahôːpɔ́] - [kkínnǎːwɨ]
YZ[kɨ́ŋoʃú] - [kutsɛ́mɔ] - [ŋít͡ʃɛbé] - [hasôjpɔ́] - [kínjǎːlɨ̀]
<<[kʼɨ́ŋoʃú] - [kutsʼɛ́mɔ] - [ʔít͡ʃʼɛɓé] - [hasôjpɔ́] - [kʼínjǎːlɨ̀]



GM[ˈkʼejxəˌsuː] - [xʏˈtsʼeːm] - [ˈxejʈʂʼibiː] - [xəˈsuwəˌfoː] - [ˈkʼejnaːħɐ]
NT[ˈqʼɨːŋəˌsyː] - [hɨˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː] - [xɐˈsøːŋøː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɑːnɨ]
<<[ˈqʼɨːŋəˌsuː] - [xʉˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌbeː] - [xɐˈsoːʔepoː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɑːnɨ]


GT[ˈqʼɨːŋəˌsuː] - [xʉˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌbeː] - [xɐˈsoːʔepoː] - [ˈqʼɨːnɑːnɨ]
UZ[kʼɨ́ŋoʃú] - [kutsʼɛ́mɔ] - [ʔít͡ʃʼɛɓé] - [hasôjpɔ́] - [kʼínjǎːlɨ̀]
<<[ˈqʼɨːŋəˌʃuː] - [kʉˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqɨːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː] - [xɐˈsoːʔepoː] - [ˈqʼɨːnjɑːnɨ]


AF[ˈkʼiːnɔsuː] - [ˈgutʼɛːmo] - [ˈkiːt͡sʼɛˌɓeː] - [haˈθoːwepɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːnahɑːde]
GZ[ˈqʼɨːŋəˌʃuː] - [kʉˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqɨːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː] - [xɐˈsoːʔepoː] - [ˈqʼɨːnjɑːnɨ]
<<[ˈqʼɨːŋaˌʃuː] - [kuˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqɨːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː] - [xɐˈsoːʔepoː] - [ˈqʼɨːnjɑhaːnɨ]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 8462
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar »

In response to ɶʙ ɞʛ's second attempt:
Spoiler:
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 AB: [ˈt͡ɕ'i:nzu:] - [gʊˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈt͡ɕi:t͡s'aˌɓe] - [haˈðo:ppɔ:] - [ˈʈ͡ʂ'i:nha:ð]
Word 1 - Essentially correct! Please see my notes on the affricates below.
Word 2 - One vowel is off in terms of length. [-w-] is either incorrect or misplaced.
Word 3 - One vowel is off in terms of length. Please see my notes on the affricates below.
Word 4 - Very close! In my notes, what you've reconstructed as [-pp-] is a cluster [-Cp-]. 
Word 5 - One consonant is off in terms of voicing, another is off in terms of MOA. Both are otherwise very close, however. Please see my notes on the affricates below.

Aside from [t͡θʼ] in Word 2, none of the affricates you've reconstructed exactly match the consonants I originally had in mind. However, I'm willing to accept what you currently have as close enough. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 CD: [ˈt͡s'insu] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈt͡si:t͡s'aɓe] - [haˈθoʔfɔ] - [ˈt͡s'inhaje]
Word 1 - Everything you have is correct, but there's a syllable missing.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Essentially correct! 
Word 4 - One consonant is incorrect, and there's a syllable missing.
Word 5 - Everything you have is correct, but there's a syllable missing.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 ABCD: [ˈt͡s'insu] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈt͡si:t͡s'aɓe] - [haˈθoʔfɔ] - [ˈʈ͡ʂ'inhaðe]
I'm afraid that ABCD is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 EF: [ˈk'i:nsu] - [ˈkt͡θ'ɛ:mə] - [ˈki:t͡s'əˌɓe:] - [ˈsθo̰jpɞ] - [ˈt͡ʃ'i:nhɔʒ]
Word 1 - One vowel is off in terms of length.
Word 2 - One vowel is off in terms of quality.
Word 3 - One vowel is off in terms of quality. 
Word 4 - One vowel is off in terms of length and quality. [sθ-] is also incorrect.
Word 5 - One vowel is off in terms of length and quality.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 A-F: [ˈk'i:nsu] - [goˈt͡θ'ɛwma] - [ˈki:t͡s'əɓe:] - [ˈsθojʔfɔ] - [ˈt͡ʃ'i:nhade]
Word 1 - One vowel is off in terms of length. There's a syllable missing. 
Word 2 - One vowel is off in terms of quality, and another is off in terms of length. [-w-] is misplaced. 
Word 3 - One vowel is off in terms of quality, and there's a missing consonant as well. Secondary stress has not been marked.
Word 4 - Only [-θ-] and [-ʔ-] are fully correct. Both vowels are off in terms of length, and there are two syllables missing. 
Word 5 - Only [-iːn-] and [-h-] are fully correct. One vowel is off in terms of length, and another is off in terms of quality. There's also a syllable missing.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 GHI: [ˈk'ojxuxew] - [xəˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxojt͡ʃ'əˌvi:] - [ˈxsṵ:fo:] - [ˈk'ojnhoɐ̯]
Word 1 - One instance of [-x-] is incorrect. Secondary stress has not been marked.
Word 2 - [x-] is incorrect. 
Word 3 - One vowel is off in terms of quality. [-v-] is slightly incorrect.
Word 4 - There's a syllable missing.
Word 5 - [-oɐ̯] is not exactly what I have, but it may end up being close enough. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 JK [ˈk'ajxəʂaw] - [xɵˈt͡s'e:m] - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂ'əpi:] - [xaˈsu:fo:] - [ˈk'ajna:χ]
Word 1 - One vowel is off in terms of quality. Secondary stress has not been marked.
Word 2 - The pretonic vowel is incorrect, but may be close enough.
Word 3 - One vowel is off in terms of quality. Secondary stress has not been marked.
Word 4 - [-uː-] is partially incorrect. 
Word 5 - [-aːχ] is not exactly what I have, but it may end up being close enough.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 G-K: [ˈk'i:xuʃu:] - [xoˈt͡s'ɛ:m] - [ˈxi:t͡ʃ'eˌɓe:] - [xaˈso:ʔfɔ:] - [ˈk'i:nha:ʁ]
I'm afraid that G-K is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 LM [ˈk'ejəˌrow] - [xəˈt'e:m] - [ˈxejʈ'əˌvi:] - [xəˈzuwəˌvo:] - [ˈk'ejnneɐ̯]
Word 1 - One consonant is still off in terms of length. 
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - One consonant is off in terms of length.
Word 5 - [-eɐ̯] is not exactly what I have, but it may end up being close enough.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 NO [ˈq'eŋsy] - [ˈt͡s'em] - [ˈqet͡s'me] - [ˈksøŋew] - [ˈq'ener]
Word 1 - Both vowels are off in terms of length.
Word 2 - The vowel is off in terms of length.
Word 3 - Both vowels are off in terms of length.
Word 4 - The stressed vowel is off in terms of length. [-ew] is incorrect.
Word 5 - Both vowels are off in terms of length. The final [-r] is incorrect. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 PQR [ˈq'eŋsy:] - [ɨˈs'em] - [ˈqes'me] - [ˈxsejŋe] - [ˈq'enan]
Word 1 - Only [-ŋ-] and [-syː] are fully correct. [qʼ] is probably close enough. [-e-] is off in terms of both length and quality. There's also a syllable missing.
Word 2 - [ɨ-] is probably close enough. [-sʼ-] may be close enough as well. [-e-] is off in terms of length. There's a syllable missing.
Word 3 - One [e] is off in terms of length and quality, and the other [e] is just off in terms of length. [-sʼ-] may be close enough. There's a syllable missing.
Word 4 - Both instances of [e] are off in terms of length. [-j-] is misplaced. There's a syllable missing.
Word 5 - [qʼ] is probably close enough. [-e-] is off in terms of length and quality. [-a-] is off in terms of length. There's a syllable missing. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 ST: [ˈq'ɨ̃si] - [hɨˈt͡s'emə] - [ˈqɨt͡s'ɛˌme] - [qaˈseŋhe] - [ˈq'ɨnɛlə]
Word 1 - Both vowels are now off in terms of length.
Word 2 - The stressed vowel should be long, as it was in your previous reconstruction. Please see my notes about final vowels below.
Word 3 - Now two vowels are off in terms of length. 
Word 4 - One vowel is still off in terms of length. [-eŋ-] is incorrect, apart from the quality of the vowel. 
Word 5 - [-l-] is incorrect. The first two vowels should be long, as they were in your previous reconstruction. Please see my notes about final vowels below.

[-ə] is probably close enough for the final vowel of either Word 2 or Word 5, but those two words do not end in the same vowel. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 N-T: [ˈq'iŋsy] - [hɨˈs'emə] - [ˈqis'ɛme] - [kaˈsøŋhe] - [ˈq'inɛr]
Word 1 - Your reconstruction of this word does not appear to have changed since last time, so I'll repeat my earlier comments. The two vowels you've reconstructed here are correct in terms of quality, but not in terms of length. The consonants are all correct, but there's a missing syllable. 
Word 2 - [-ɨ-] is probably close enough. The stressed vowel is off in terms of length, and the final vowel is off in terms of quality. I may accept [-sʼ-] as close enough, but it's not exactly what I had in mind.
Word 3 - Your reconstruction of this word does not appear to have changed since last time, so I'll repeat my earlier comments. [q-], [-ɛ-], and [-m-] are correct. The other two vowels are off in terms of length. Secondary stress has not been marked.
Word 4 - One vowel is off in terms of quality, one vowel is off in terms of length, and one vowel is off in terms of both. There's a missing syllable, and the initial consonant is incorrect. 
Word 5 - The stressed vowel should be long, as it was in your previous reconstruction. [-ɛ-] is off in terms of both quality and length. [-r] is incorrect. There's a missing syllable. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 G-T: [ˈk'iŋsju:] - [xuˈs'ɛ:m] - [ˈki:ʂ'ɛɓe:] - [kaˈsojʔvɔ:] - [ˈk'inhar]
I'm afraid that G-T is not a valid grouping. 
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 UV [k'ɨ́ŋosú] - [kut͡s'ɛ́ma] - [jít͡s'ɛɓé] - [jasôjpá] - [kî:nǎ:lɨ]
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - The initial consonant is incorrect.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 WX [ʔkɨ́ŋosú] - [kùʔθɛ́mɔ] - [íʔt͡sɛʔpé] - [ahô:pɔ́] - [ʔkíɲɲǎ:wɨ̀]
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - One vowel has the incorrect tone.
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - [-ɲɲ-] is incorrect. One vowel has the incorrect tone.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 YZ [kɨ́ŋòʃú] - [kùt͡sɛ́mɔ̀] - [ŋít͡ʃɛ̀bé] - [hàsôjpɔ́] - [kíɲǎ:dɨ̀]
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Spot-on!

Well done!
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 U-Z: [k'ɨ́ŋoʃú] - [kùʔθɛ́mɔ] - [íʔt͡sɛɓé] - [hasôjpɔ́] - [k'ínŋǎ:dɨ̀]
Word 1 - Please see my notes about the fricatives and affricates below.
Word 2 - One vowel has the incorrect tone. [-ʔθ-] is incorrect. Please see my notes about the fricatives and affricates below.
Word 3 - One vowel is off in terms of length. [-t͡s-] is partially incorrect. [ʔ] is misplaced. Please see my notes about the fricatives and affricates below.
Word 4 - Please see my notes about the fricatives and affricates below.
Word 5 - [-ŋ-] and [-d-] are incorrect. One vowel has the incorrect tone. 

The POAs of the coronal fricatives and affricates in Words 1-4 may be difficult to reconstruct. There are a number of alternative reconstructions I'll be willing to accept, but there are still a few problems with what you currently have.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 21 Mar 2021 18:35 All: [ˈk'ɨŋsju] - [goˈs'ɛwma] - [ˈkiʃ'əɓe] - [xaˈsojʔfɔ] - [ˈk'inhade]
Word 1 - Two correct segments 
Word 2 - Two correct segments
Word 3 - One correct segment
Word 4 - Three correct segments 
Word 5 - Three correct segments 
shimobaatar
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korean
Posts: 8462
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar »

In response to sangi39's second attempt:
Spoiler:
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [ˈt͡ʃʼiːndzuː] - [guˈt͡θʼɛːma] - [ˈt͡ʃiːt͡ʃʼaˌɓeː] - [haˈðoːppɔː]   - [ˈt͡sʼiːnhaːd]
AB

Word 1 - There's a consonant here that isn't present in my version of this word, but I'm counting it as essentially correct. Please see my notes on the affricates below.
Word 2 - [-m-] is missing something. [-u-] is incorrect, as was [-o-] in your previous reconstruction, but both are rather close.
Word 3 - Please see my notes on the affricates below.
Word 4 - [-pp-] should be a cluster [-Cp-].
Word 5 - Please see my notes on the affricates below.

As I mentioned last time, aside from [t͡θʼ] in Word 2, none of the affricates you've reconstructed exactly match the consonants I originally had in mind (some of them aren't even affricates), but I don't want to be obnoxiously picky and force you to guess them all correctly, so there are a lot of alternative reconstructions I'll be willing to accept here. That being said, the second consonant in Word 3 should not be the same as the initial consonant of Words 1 and 3.
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [ˈt͡sʼinɔsu]   - [goˈt͡θʼɛːma] - [ˈt͡siːt͡sʼaɓe]   - [haˈθoːwepɔ]   - [ˈt͡sʼinahaje]
CD

Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - One segment missing.
Word 3 - Essentially correct!
Word 4 - One vowel is still off in terms of length. [-w-] is incorrect.
Word 5 - The first instance of [-a-] is incorrect.
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [ˈkʼiːnsuː]   - [ˈxtʼɛːmʊ]   - [ˈkiːt͡sʼɪˌɓeː]  - [ˈθo̰jpɔ]       - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːnhɑːʒ]
EF

Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Only [-ɛːm-] is entirely correct. [-ʊ-] is only slightly off. The "shape" of the initial cluster is correct, but both consonants are off in terms of MOA.
Word 3 - [-ɪ-] is just slightly off.
Word 4 - One consonant and one vowel are both still off in terms of length.
Word 5 - The second vowel is slightly off in terms of quality. 
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 <<[ˈkʼiːnɔsuː]  - [ˈgutʼɛːmo]  - [ˈkiːt͡sʼɛˌɓeː]  - [haˈθoːwepɔ]   - [ˈt͡ʃʼiːnahɑːde]
A-F

Word 1 - Spot-on, aside from the lack of secondary stress marking!
Word 2 - [-o] is incorrect, and should be two segments. [-u-] is slightly off. The placement of stress is also incorrect. [-tʼ-] is off in terms of MOA.
Word 3 - [-ɛ-] is incorrect, and should be two segments.
Word 4 - [-we-] is incorrect. Another vowel is off in terms of length. Secondary stress has not been marked.
Word 5 - Only [-iːn-h-] is fully correct. The quality of the third vowel is slightly off. I may end up treating [t͡ʃʼ-] as essentially correct. Secondary stress has not been marked. Otherwise, the overall structure of the word is correct.
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [ˈkʼojxuˌxew] - [xəˈt͡sʼeːm]  - [ˈxojt͡ʃʼiˌfiː]  - [xəˈsṵːfoː]    - [ˈkʼojnhɑː]
GHI

Word 1 - One consonant, the first [-x-], is still slightly off.
Word 2 - [-x-] is slightly off.
Word 3 - [-f-] is incorrect, but not incredibly far off.
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - The final vowel is off in terms of quality, and there's a missing segment.
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [ˈkʼajxəˌʂaw] - [xʏˈt͡sʼeːm]  - [ˈxajʈ͡ʂʼəˌpiː]  - [xaˈsyːfoː]    - [ˈkʼajnaːħ]
JK

Word 1 - [-ə-] is incorrect, but probably close enough given the evidence available. 
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - [-ə-] is incorrect, but probably close enough given the evidence available.
Word 4 - The nucleus of the stressed syllable is incorrect, and should be a diphthong. 
Word 5 - [-ħ] is incorrect, but not incredibly far off.
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [ˈkʼejːəˌroː] - [xəˈtʼeːm]   - [ˈxejʈʼəˌviː]   - [xəˈzuwəˌvoː]  - [ˈkʼejnaːɐ̯]
LM

Word 1 - The quality of the final vowel is partially correct, but it should be a diphthong. 
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - One consonant is still off in terms of length. 
Word 5 - The nucleus of the final syllable is incorrect. Your previous reconstruction was somewhat closer in terms of quality, your current reconstruction is somewhat closer in terms of length, but it should not be a diphthong. There is also a missing segment. One consonant is still off in terms of length as well. 
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 <<[ˈkʼejxəˌsuː] - [xʏˈtsʼeːm]  - [ˈxejʈʂʼibiː]   - [xəˈsuwəˌfoː]  - [ˈkʼejnaːħɐ]
G-M

Word 1 - [kʼ-] is correct and [-ej-] is probably close enough, but everything after that is off. [-s-] is closer than [-r-] was, however, and [-x-] is correct in terms of MOA and POA. 
Word 2 - The pretonic vowel may be close enough. The initial consonant is off in the same way that [-x-] in Word 1 is.
Word 3 - [-ej-] is probably close enough. The short [-i-] is incorrect. Secondary stress has not been marked. 
Word 4 - The pretonic vowel is off in terms of quality, and the stressed vowel is off in terms of length. [-wə-] is also incorrect.
Word 5 - [-ej-] is probably close enough. [-n-] and [-aː-] are both correct, but their placement is a bit off. There's an extra syllable, and a missing consonant. 
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [ˈqʼexsiː]    - [ˈt͡sʼem]     - [ˈqeːt͡sʼemeː]   - [ˈksøːŋøː]     - [ˈqʼeːnen]
NO

Word 1 - One vowel is off in terms of length, and the other is off in terms of rounding. [-x-] is off in terms of MOA.
Word 2 - The vowel is off in terms of length.
Word 3 - There's an extra syllable. 
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - One vowel is off in terms of length.
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [ˈqɪːŋəˌsyː]  - [ʔɯˈtsˤemo]  - [ˈqɪːtsˤɛˌmeː]  - [xəˈsejŋeː]    - [ˈqɪːnoːnɯ]
PQR

Word 1 - [-ə-] is probably close enough, although the quality of the vowel is preserved in one of the descendants. [q-] is missing something.
Word 2 - One segment doesn't need to be there, and one vowel is off in terms of length.
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - It's not the same vowel as in Word 1, but [-ə-] is probably close enough here as well, although again, the quality of the vowel is preserved in one of the descendants. One vowel is off in terms of length, and the order of two segments should be reversed. 
Word 5 - The quality of the second vowel is off. [q-] is missing something. 
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [ˈqʼɨ̃ːsiː]    - [hɨˈt͡sʼeːmɤ] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː]   - [qəˈsẽjeː]    - [ˈqʼɨːnɛːnɨ]
ST

Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Regarding the quality of the pretonic vowel, your previous reconstruction was closer. There's a missing consonant. 
Word 5 - Spot-on!
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 <<[ˈqʼɨːŋəˌsyː] - [hɨˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌmeː]   - [xɐˈsøːŋøː]   - [ˈqʼɨːnɑːnɨ]
N-T

Word 1 - The first two vowels are off in terms of quality. 
Word 2 - Two vowels are now off in terms of quality. The pretonic vowel should be [-ɯ-], as in your previous reconstruction. 
Word 3 - The first vowel is off in terms of quality. 
Word 4 - Everything you've reconstructed here is technically correct, but there is a missing syllable.
Word 5 - All three vowels are off in terms of quality. The third should be [-ɯ-], as in your previous reconstruction.
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [kʼɨ́ŋosú]     - [kut͡sʼɛ́ma]   - [jít͡sʼɛɓé]       - [jasôjpá]     - [kʼîːnǎːlɨ]
UV

Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Spot-on!

Well-done!
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [kkɨ́ŋosú]     - [kùttɛ́mɔ]    - [íːt͡sɛ̀ːpé]       - [ahôːpɔ́]      - [kkínnǎːwɨ]
WX

Word 1 - Only the initial geminate is incorrect. Please see my notes about length below.
Word 2 - One vowel has the incorrect tone. [-tt-] is off in terms of length and MOA. Please see my notes about length below.
Word 3 - Two vowels are off in terms of length. One vowel also has the incorrect tone. Please see my notes about length below.
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Only the initial geminate is incorrect. Please see my notes about length below.

All of the geminate obstruents you've reconstructed here should be consonant clusters. The long vowels in Word 3 should be short vowels followed by consonant clusters. These two "phenomena" are related. 
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 < [kɨ́ŋoʃú]      - [kutsɛ́mɔ]    - [ŋít͡ʃɛbé]        - [hasôjpɔ́]     - [kínjǎːlɨ̀]
YZ

Word 1 - Please see my comments below. 
Word 2 - Please see my comments below.
Word 3 - Please see my comments below.
Word 4 - Please see my comments below.
Word 5 - Please see my comments below.

I'm not sure why you made most of the changes that you did. You had 4 out of the 5 words correct last time. The only change that was necessary was replacing [-ôːpj-] with [-ôjp-]. 
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 <<[kʼɨ́ŋoʃú]     - [kutsʼɛ́mɔ]   - [ʔít͡ʃʼɛɓé]       - [hasôjpɔ́]     - [kʼínjǎːlɨ̀]
U-Z

Word 1 - Please see my notes on the sibilants below.
Word 2 - Please see my notes on the sibilants below.
Word 3 - One vowel is off in terms of length, which I didn't catch last time. Please see my notes on the sibilants below.
Word 4 - Please see my notes on the sibilants below.
Word 5 - The final vowel still has the incorrect tone. 

As I mentioned last time, none of the sibilants you've reconstructed here exactly match the ones I originally had in mind, but I don't want to be obnoxiously picky and force you to guess them all correctly, so I may accept what you have as essentially correct.
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 <<[ˈqʼɨːŋəˌsuː] - [xʉˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqɨːt͡sʼɛˌbeː]  - [xɐˈsoːʔepoː]  - [ˈqʼɨːnɑːnɨ]
I'm afraid that G-T is not a valid grouping.
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 <<[ˈqʼɨːŋəˌʃuː] - [kʉˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqɨːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː]  - [xɐˈsoːʔepoː]  - [ˈqʼɨːnjɑːnɨ]
I'm afraid that G-Z is not a valid grouping. 
sangi39 wrote: 04 Apr 2021 19:23 <<[ˈqʼɨːŋaˌʃuː] - [kuˈt͡sʼeːmo] - [ˈqɨːt͡ʃʼɛˌɓeː]  - [xɐˈsoːʔepoː]  - [ˈqʼɨːnjɑhaːnɨ]
A-Z

Word 1 - Three or four correct segments
Word 2 - Two or three correct segments
Word 3 - Four or five correct segments
Word 4 - Four or five correct segments
Word 5 - Four correct segments

As I mentioned last time, what I said in response to your reconstruction of U-Z above, regarding the sibilants, also applies here.

For Word 1, one of the changes you made was correct, but another was incorrect, so the number of correct segments overall has stayed the same. For Word 4, two of the changes you made were correct, but two others were incorrect, so the number of correct segments overall has stayed the same.

I will say that you have the general structures of the words correct, except for one syllable in Word 5. Words 4 and 5 should also have secondary stress marked.
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