S'alright We've had longer waitsshimobaatar wrote: ↑29 Feb 2020 18:31 Just wanted to say that I am working on something for this thread, but I've been having a hard time feeling satisfied with anything I come up with. Sorry for the wait.
Quick Diachronics Challenge
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
-
- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Hopefully this will provide a sufficient challenge. I'm afraid I don't have the ability to create a map, but the way I've listed the languages below should be pretty straightforward. For instance, language A is spoken to the west of language B, language B is spoken to the east of language A and to the west of language C, language C is spoken to the east of language B and to the west of language D, and so on.
A [ˈfut͡ʃʏti] - [ˈʒet͡ʃu] - [pəˈvapan] - [xʏˈven]
B [ˈɸɔxxuteː] - [ˈjaxxoː] - [pawˈwaɸɸa] - [ʃuwˈwaː]
C [ɸɔːʃuˈdeɪ̯] - [ɲaːˈʃoʊ̯] - [ˈɸæːwaːβaː] - [ˈɸaː]
D [ɔʃˈteː] - [ɲaˈʃoː] - [ˈaːsaŋ] - [ˈaŋ]
E [ˈføːʰti] - [ˈnyːʃø] - [ˈfoːwaŋ] - [ˈkʰuːŋ]
F [ˈpyːd͡ʒiː] - [ˈnyːʒyː] - [puːˈwuːbm̩] - [ˈt͡ʃyːm]
G [ˈpoːɪ̯ði] - [ˈniːjø] - [ˈpwopan] - [ˈt͡ʃuːn]
H [ˈpoːʃt] - [ˈniːʃ] - [ˈpʰoppã] - [ˈksũː]
I [ˈkoloɪ̯t] - [ˈd͡ʒeɪ̯l] - [ˈgʱom] - [ˈʃõ]
J [ˈkoʎ̝ɟe] - [ˈd͡ʒeʎ̝ʎ̝o] - [kæˈŋoːβe] - [ˈʃuː]
K [ˈkaʊ̯ʃʃut͡si] - [ˈɖeʃʃu] - [ˈcʰoɸɸõ] - [ˈʂʈũ]
L [ˈkeʊ̯ɬɬti] - [ˈdriɬɬu] - [ˈθuɸɸa] - [ˈtrõ]
M [ˈkoʊ̯ɬɬuʔ] - [ˈniɬɬe] - [ˈkuːfaŋ] - [ˈnuŋ]
N [ˈʔaʊ̯ɬuk] - [ˈgeɬe] - [ˈʔaːʰpã] - [ˈrõ]
O [ˈkaːt͡ɬ] - [ˈdeɬeː] - [ˈskopãː] - [ˈɬõː]
P [ˈkoxt͡se] - [ˈd͡zeʝø] - [ˈkromb] - [ˈhon]
A [ˈfut͡ʃʏti] - [ˈʒet͡ʃu] - [pəˈvapan] - [xʏˈven]
B [ˈɸɔxxuteː] - [ˈjaxxoː] - [pawˈwaɸɸa] - [ʃuwˈwaː]
C [ɸɔːʃuˈdeɪ̯] - [ɲaːˈʃoʊ̯] - [ˈɸæːwaːβaː] - [ˈɸaː]
D [ɔʃˈteː] - [ɲaˈʃoː] - [ˈaːsaŋ] - [ˈaŋ]
E [ˈføːʰti] - [ˈnyːʃø] - [ˈfoːwaŋ] - [ˈkʰuːŋ]
F [ˈpyːd͡ʒiː] - [ˈnyːʒyː] - [puːˈwuːbm̩] - [ˈt͡ʃyːm]
G [ˈpoːɪ̯ði] - [ˈniːjø] - [ˈpwopan] - [ˈt͡ʃuːn]
H [ˈpoːʃt] - [ˈniːʃ] - [ˈpʰoppã] - [ˈksũː]
I [ˈkoloɪ̯t] - [ˈd͡ʒeɪ̯l] - [ˈgʱom] - [ˈʃõ]
J [ˈkoʎ̝ɟe] - [ˈd͡ʒeʎ̝ʎ̝o] - [kæˈŋoːβe] - [ˈʃuː]
K [ˈkaʊ̯ʃʃut͡si] - [ˈɖeʃʃu] - [ˈcʰoɸɸõ] - [ˈʂʈũ]
L [ˈkeʊ̯ɬɬti] - [ˈdriɬɬu] - [ˈθuɸɸa] - [ˈtrõ]
M [ˈkoʊ̯ɬɬuʔ] - [ˈniɬɬe] - [ˈkuːfaŋ] - [ˈnuŋ]
N [ˈʔaʊ̯ɬuk] - [ˈgeɬe] - [ˈʔaːʰpã] - [ˈrõ]
O [ˈkaːt͡ɬ] - [ˈdeɬeː] - [ˈskopãː] - [ˈɬõː]
P [ˈkoxt͡se] - [ˈd͡zeʝø] - [ˈkromb] - [ˈhon]
Last edited by shimobaatar on 19 Apr 2020 19:55, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Well this could be an fun one! I've got sleep and work to get through, but assuming I'm not working from home (I can't remember, lol), this could be tomorrow afternoon for me
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
So, this has definitely been a challenge!
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
-
- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Before I respond to sangi39, is anyone else interested in giving this a go?
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Have to admit, a lack of reply from people like ɶʙ ɞʛ had me a tad shocked, but then again, maybe they've been busy, or taking a bit longer with it (on that note, I kind of rushed mine. I wanted to get it done before the end of the week, but a few problems at work left me less time than I wanted).shimobaatar wrote: ↑09 Mar 2020 11:36 Before I respond to sangi39, is anyone else interested in giving this a go?
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
- Glass Half Baked
- rupestrian
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 06 Mar 2020 18:18
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I agree with most of sangi39's work, but I would add a couple of questions:
Spoiler:
-
- korean
- Posts: 10373
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- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I've completed my feedback for sangi39 and Glass Half Baked, but before I post it, I want to ask again if anyone else is planning on giving this a shot. I'd like to hold back on responding to anyone until at least two people (in total) have attempted relatively full reconstructions separately.
Believe me, I completely understand how busy life can be. So, even if you're not able to give it a go right away, please let me know if you'd like to try this challenge at some point in the coming week or so, whenever you have time.
Believe me, I completely understand how busy life can be. So, even if you're not able to give it a go right away, please let me know if you'd like to try this challenge at some point in the coming week or so, whenever you have time.
-
- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Well, alright then!
In response to sangi39's first post:
In response to sangi39's second post:
In response to Glass Half Baked:
In response to sangi39's first post:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Oh wow, I have a lot to go over with this one.
The capitals were basically instances of "I can't make up my mind, but something vaguely this", so "N" is just "some nasal, "K" was something like "a velar plosive maybe". I probably should have tried pinning them down.
The capitals were basically instances of "I can't make up my mind, but something vaguely this", so "N" is just "some nasal, "K" was something like "a velar plosive maybe". I probably should have tried pinning them down.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
-
- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
No worries about the capital letters! Let me know if there's anything I need to clarify.sangi39 wrote: ↑15 Mar 2020 19:12 Oh wow, I have a lot to go over with this one.
The capitals were basically instances of "I can't make up my mind, but something vaguely this", so "N" is just "some nasal, "K" was something like "a velar plosive maybe". I probably should have tried pinning them down.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
A [ˈfut͡ʃʏti] - [ˈʒet͡ʃu] - [pəˈvapan] - [xʏˈven]
B [ˈɸɔxxuteː] - [ˈjaxxoː] - [pawˈwaɸɸa] - [ʃuwˈwaː]
C [ɸɔːʃuˈdeɪ̯] - [ɲaːˈʃoʊ̯] - [ˈɸæːwaːβaː] - [ˈfaː]
D [ɔʃˈteː] - [ɲaˈʃoː] - [ˈaːsaŋ] - [ˈaŋ]
Proto-ABCD: [ɸokjute] - [ɲakjo] - [pajwaɸ:an] - [juw:an]
E [ˈføːʰti] - [ˈnyːʃø] - [ˈfoːwaŋ] - [ˈkʰuːŋ]
F [ˈpyːd͡ʒiː] - [ˈnyːʒyː] - [puːˈwuːbm̩] - [ˈt͡ʃyːm]
G [ˈpoːɪ̯ði] - [ˈniːjø] - [ˈpwopan] - [ˈt͡ʃuːn]
H [ˈpoːʃt] - [ˈniːʃ] - [ˈpʰoppã] - [ˈksũː]
Proto-EFGH: [poihti] - [nuitjo] - [powoban] - [ksun]
I [ˈkoloɪ̯t] - [ˈd͡ʒeɪ̯l] - [ˈgʱom] - [ˈʃõ]
J [ˈkoʎ̝ɟe] - [ˈd͡ʒeʎ̝ʎ̝o] - [kæˈŋoːβe] - [ˈʃuː]
Proto-IJ: [koloite] - [dʒeilo] - [gŋoβe] - [ʃoŋ]
K [ˈkaʊ̯ʃʃut͡si] - [ˈɖeʃʃu] - [ˈcʰoɸɸõ] - [ˈʂʈũ]
L [ˈkeʊ̯ɬɬti] - [ˈdriɬɬu] - [ˈθuɸɸa] - [ˈtrõ]
M [ˈkoʊ̯ɬɬuʔ] - [ˈniɬɬe] - [ˈkuːfaŋ] - [ˈnuŋ]
N [ˈʔaʊ̯ɬuk] - [ˈgeɬe] - [ˈʔaːʰpã] - [ˈrõ]
Proto-KLMN: [kauɬ:uki] - [driɬ:u] - [kjoɸ:aŋ] - [struŋ]
O [ˈkaːt͡ɬ] - [ˈdeɬeː] - [ˈskopãː] - [ˈɬõː]
P [ˈkoxt͡se] - [ˈd͡zeʝø] - [ˈkromb] - [ˈhon]
Proto-OP: [kahtɬe] - [deɬeu] - [skropan] - [ɬon]
Word 1: [ɸokjute] [poihti] < [pokjute]
[koloite] [kauɬ:uki] [kahtɬe] < [kahloite]
Proto-word 1: [kʷakloite]
Word 2: [ɲakjo] [nuitjo] < [njukjo]
[dʒeilo] [driɬ:u] [deɬeu] < [dretɬo]
Proto-word 2: [ndreklo]
Word 3: [pajwaɸ:an] [powoban] < [pojwapan]
[gŋoβe] [kjoɸ:aŋ] [skropan] < [skropan]
Proto-word 3: [srojwapan]
Word 4: [juw:an] [ksun] < [kjuan]
[ʃoŋ] [struŋ] [ɬon] < [slon]
Proto-word 4: [sluan]
B [ˈɸɔxxuteː] - [ˈjaxxoː] - [pawˈwaɸɸa] - [ʃuwˈwaː]
C [ɸɔːʃuˈdeɪ̯] - [ɲaːˈʃoʊ̯] - [ˈɸæːwaːβaː] - [ˈfaː]
D [ɔʃˈteː] - [ɲaˈʃoː] - [ˈaːsaŋ] - [ˈaŋ]
Proto-ABCD: [ɸokjute] - [ɲakjo] - [pajwaɸ:an] - [juw:an]
E [ˈføːʰti] - [ˈnyːʃø] - [ˈfoːwaŋ] - [ˈkʰuːŋ]
F [ˈpyːd͡ʒiː] - [ˈnyːʒyː] - [puːˈwuːbm̩] - [ˈt͡ʃyːm]
G [ˈpoːɪ̯ði] - [ˈniːjø] - [ˈpwopan] - [ˈt͡ʃuːn]
H [ˈpoːʃt] - [ˈniːʃ] - [ˈpʰoppã] - [ˈksũː]
Proto-EFGH: [poihti] - [nuitjo] - [powoban] - [ksun]
I [ˈkoloɪ̯t] - [ˈd͡ʒeɪ̯l] - [ˈgʱom] - [ˈʃõ]
J [ˈkoʎ̝ɟe] - [ˈd͡ʒeʎ̝ʎ̝o] - [kæˈŋoːβe] - [ˈʃuː]
Proto-IJ: [koloite] - [dʒeilo] - [gŋoβe] - [ʃoŋ]
K [ˈkaʊ̯ʃʃut͡si] - [ˈɖeʃʃu] - [ˈcʰoɸɸõ] - [ˈʂʈũ]
L [ˈkeʊ̯ɬɬti] - [ˈdriɬɬu] - [ˈθuɸɸa] - [ˈtrõ]
M [ˈkoʊ̯ɬɬuʔ] - [ˈniɬɬe] - [ˈkuːfaŋ] - [ˈnuŋ]
N [ˈʔaʊ̯ɬuk] - [ˈgeɬe] - [ˈʔaːʰpã] - [ˈrõ]
Proto-KLMN: [kauɬ:uki] - [driɬ:u] - [kjoɸ:aŋ] - [struŋ]
O [ˈkaːt͡ɬ] - [ˈdeɬeː] - [ˈskopãː] - [ˈɬõː]
P [ˈkoxt͡se] - [ˈd͡zeʝø] - [ˈkromb] - [ˈhon]
Proto-OP: [kahtɬe] - [deɬeu] - [skropan] - [ɬon]
Word 1: [ɸokjute] [poihti] < [pokjute]
[koloite] [kauɬ:uki] [kahtɬe] < [kahloite]
Proto-word 1: [kʷakloite]
Word 2: [ɲakjo] [nuitjo] < [njukjo]
[dʒeilo] [driɬ:u] [deɬeu] < [dretɬo]
Proto-word 2: [ndreklo]
Word 3: [pajwaɸ:an] [powoban] < [pojwapan]
[gŋoβe] [kjoɸ:aŋ] [skropan] < [skropan]
Proto-word 3: [srojwapan]
Word 4: [juw:an] [ksun] < [kjuan]
[ʃoŋ] [struŋ] [ɬon] < [slon]
Proto-word 4: [sluan]
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I don't think I'll be able to work on this now until the 11th of April. With everything going on with COVID-19, we've become a lot busier at work than everyone had originally expected so we're having to put in extra shifts to keep up with the work load (when doing my homeworking shifts, I could easily cram that into an hour and be comfortably done, now it's creeping up to three hours while having to intentionally leave stuff for when I'm at the office in the morning).
I'm still working on it, but only very vaguely, and for maybe a few minutes at a time.
I'm still working on it, but only very vaguely, and for maybe a few minutes at a time.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
-
- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I'm sorry to hear that you're in this situation, but I understand, of course, and wish you the best.sangi39 wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020 21:59 I don't think I'll be able to work on this now until the 11th of April. With everything going on with COVID-19, we've become a lot busier at work than everyone had originally expected so we're having to put in extra shifts to keep up with the work load (when doing my homeworking shifts, I could easily cram that into an hour and be comfortably done, now it's creeping up to three hours while having to intentionally leave stuff for when I'm at the office in the morning).
I'm still working on it, but only very vaguely, and for maybe a few minutes at a time.
I'd have no problem waiting until whenever you're able to return to this to give more feedback or announce results or whatever.
-
- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Just a small clarification before I start looking over what you have here: I assume that what you represent as, for instance, [au] is equivalent to what I represent as [aʊ̯] and not a sequence of two syllables, but what about [ua] in your reconstruction for the fourth word?
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
We are indeed living in interesting times.shimobaatar wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020 23:55I'm sorry to hear that you're in this situation, but I understand, of course, and wish you the best.sangi39 wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020 21:59 I don't think I'll be able to work on this now until the 11th of April. With everything going on with COVID-19, we've become a lot busier at work than everyone had originally expected so we're having to put in extra shifts to keep up with the work load (when doing my homeworking shifts, I could easily cram that into an hour and be comfortably done, now it's creeping up to three hours while having to intentionally leave stuff for when I'm at the office in the morning).
I'm still working on it, but only very vaguely, and for maybe a few minutes at a time.
I'd have no problem waiting until whenever you're able to return to this to give more feedback or announce results or whatever.
The 11th there marks the start of 16 days off work for me that was originally meant to be for travel, but that's not happening any more The plan is to throw myself back into this challenge, and some conlanging in general. Feel like I've neglected it overall.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
shimobaatar wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020 23:58Just a small clarification before I start looking over what you have here: I assume that what you represent as, for instance, [au] is equivalent to what I represent as [aʊ̯] and not a sequence of two syllables, but what about [ua] in your reconstruction for the fourth word?
That is probably two separate syllables.
-
- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
That we certainly are, to say the least!sangi39 wrote: ↑01 Apr 2020 00:10We are indeed living in interesting times.shimobaatar wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020 23:55I'm sorry to hear that you're in this situation, but I understand, of course, and wish you the best.sangi39 wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020 21:59 I don't think I'll be able to work on this now until the 11th of April. With everything going on with COVID-19, we've become a lot busier at work than everyone had originally expected so we're having to put in extra shifts to keep up with the work load (when doing my homeworking shifts, I could easily cram that into an hour and be comfortably done, now it's creeping up to three hours while having to intentionally leave stuff for when I'm at the office in the morning).
I'm still working on it, but only very vaguely, and for maybe a few minutes at a time.
I'd have no problem waiting until whenever you're able to return to this to give more feedback or announce results or whatever.
The 11th there marks the start of 16 days off work for me that was originally meant to be for travel, but that's not happening any more The plan is to throw myself back into this challenge, and some conlanging in general. Feel like I've neglected it overall.
Godspeed until then!
One very, very quick note for you, sangi39, about something that I hadn't noticed until just now:
Spoiler:
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
May I ask what kind of commonly-used service do you work at that you have to work more during the crisis? My father is in the same situation as you, as he works for the liquor distribution services here (which the provincial government has a monopoly on), and since the government and the people consider it essential, they've been regularly asking him if he can work more...sangi39 wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020 21:59I don't think I'll be able to work on this now until the 11th of April. With everything going on with COVID-19, we've become a lot busier at work than everyone had originally expected so we're having to put in extra shifts to keep up with the work load (when doing my homeworking shifts, I could easily cram that into an hour and be comfortably done, now it's creeping up to three hours while having to intentionally leave stuff for when I'm at the office in the morning).
hīc sunt linguificēs. hēr bēoþ tungemakeras.