Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Posted: 09 Nov 2020 03:42
by zyma
In response to Ratsawn's third attempt:
Word 2 - Please see my response below.
Word 3 - Please see my response below.
Word 4 - [-kk-] is partially correct, and [-ɣ-] is off. Please see below for more details.
Word 5 - Please see my response below.
Could you please direct me to where I said that? I'm having a hard time finding it. In any case, that's almost certainly a typo.
I put all of my responses under spoilers and in separate posts in hopes of discouraging participants from reading the comments I've left for other players, but there's nothing I can actually do to prevent this, I don't think there's an actual rule against it, and it's really not a big deal. In this case, hopefully it can help me catch and correct a mistake in one of my responses.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - The final vowel is off. Please see below for more details.
Word 5 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - All of the segments are correct, but [ə] is in the wrong place. I'd recommend comparing AB and EF.
Word 3 - Please see my response below.
Word 4 - [ʔempˈk-t͡saʊ̯] is correct. The stressed vowel in your previous guess, [uː], was partially correct in the same way as [oː] in Word 1. It may be helpful to think about the nucleus of the final syllable of this word, which you've now reconstructed correctly.
Word 5 - Please see my response below.
At this point, I'm going to tell you that Words 3 and 5 end in syllabic consonants. So, Word 5 is [iˈd͡ʒelm̩]. However, [ɻ] is not the correct rhotic.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Two segments do not need to be there. I'd recommend comparing the pretonic syllables of Words 4 and 5 and the stressed syllables of Words 3 and 5.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Very close! The third vowel is off in quality.
Word 4 - There is a [w], but it's in the wrong place. The first vowel is off, but all the other segments are correct.
Word 5 - Spot-on!
I don't believe there's a [-d-] in any of these words in IJ, but yes, something like [t d] > [d ð~Ø] intervocalically is accurate for J.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Please see my comments below.
For the initial consonant of Word 5, I'd be willing to accept any of [x~χ~ħ~h], really, although in my notes I have either [x] or [h]. This is partially what I meant by "it's not POA that's the problem" in my response to your previous reconstruction, [ˈχeɪ̯lin]. The problem, instead, was that the structure of the word is [xiˈCeɪ̯lin], not [ˈCeɪ̯lin], as I tried to clarify in the following paragraph of my last response.
Hopefully this clears things up.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - The third vowel is off in terms of quality. Please see below for more details.
Word 4 - [jeŋˈk-t-] is correct. [-aː] is partially correct. Your previous guess for the stressed vowel, [-uː-], was partially correct in more or less the same way.
Word 5 - The third vowel is off in terms of quality. Please see below for more details.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - [t-ˈ-ɛːɻu] is correct. There is a nasal in the onset of the stressed syllable, but neither M nor N preserves its POA. Please see below for more details.
Word 4 - [ʒ-ˈguʒʒaʊ̯] is correct. [iː] is partially correct. Please see below for more details.
Word 5 - Please see my response below.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Spot-on!
Well done!
Word 2 - [r-ˈ-ĩːzo] is correct. The quality of the pretonic vowel and the MOA of the second consonant are off.
Word 3 - All of the segments you've reconstructed are correct, but there's a consonant missing.
Word 4 - [ʒẽːˈgu-av] is correct. Please see below for more details.
Word 5 - [-iˈɣe-mə] is correct. Please see below for more details.
Word 2 - Eight correct segments
Word 3 - Six correct segments
Word 4 - Five correct segments
Word 5 - Five correct segments
[ˈsV[+round,mid]m-] is correct.
For Word 4, you changed one of the five correct segments you had last time, but also made the correct change to one of your previously incorrect segments.
For Word 5, I'm torn on whether to count a sixth segment as correct or not. The issue is related to the "structural" problems in A-F.
Spoiler:
Word 1 - The initial consonant is off. Please see below for more details.
Word 2 - Please see my response below.
Word 3 - Please see my response below.
Word 4 - [-kk-] is partially correct, and [-ɣ-] is off. Please see below for more details.
Word 5 - Please see my response below.
Your original guess, [gw-] was half correct.
[ɖɳ] would have been closer in that it's a [Cɳ] cluster. Regarding the compensatory lengthening, I'd recommend making comparisons with Word 3.
[g͡ɣ] is indeed what I had in mind.
Could you please direct me to where I said that? I'm having a hard time finding it. In any case, that's almost certainly a typo.
I put all of my responses under spoilers and in separate posts in hopes of discouraging participants from reading the comments I've left for other players, but there's nothing I can actually do to prevent this, I don't think there's an actual rule against it, and it's really not a big deal. In this case, hopefully it can help me catch and correct a mistake in one of my responses.
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - The final vowel is off. Please see below for more details.
Word 5 - Spot-on!
Your previous guess, [ɔ], was correct in terms of quality.
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Spot-on!
You have! Well done!
Word 1 - For the initial consonant, [χ-] and [ħ-] have both been close. They're correct in voicing and MOA. The vowel in your previous guess, [oː], was partially correct. The issue with [-m] is a matter of secondary articulation.
Word 2 - All of the segments are correct, but [ə] is in the wrong place. I'd recommend comparing AB and EF.
Word 3 - Please see my response below.
Word 4 - [ʔempˈk-t͡saʊ̯] is correct. The stressed vowel in your previous guess, [uː], was partially correct in the same way as [oː] in Word 1. It may be helpful to think about the nucleus of the final syllable of this word, which you've now reconstructed correctly.
Word 5 - Please see my response below.
First of all, [tuħˈland-] and [iˈd͡ʒel-] are correct, and for Word 5, [m] is partially correct.
At this point, I'm going to tell you that Words 3 and 5 end in syllabic consonants. So, Word 5 is [iˈd͡ʒelm̩]. However, [ɻ] is not the correct rhotic.
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Two segments do not need to be there. I'd recommend comparing the pretonic syllables of Words 4 and 5 and the stressed syllables of Words 3 and 5.
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Very close! The third vowel is off in quality.
Word 4 - There is a [w], but it's in the wrong place. The first vowel is off, but all the other segments are correct.
Word 5 - Spot-on!
You're correct!
[r] is correct!
I don't believe there's a [-d-] in any of these words in IJ, but yes, something like [t d] > [d ð~Ø] intervocalically is accurate for J.
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Please see my comments below.
[a] is correct!
As far as I can tell, there aren't any typos in the relevant portion of my previous response, but it could have been worded far, far more clearly. I'll do my best to correct that here.
For the initial consonant of Word 5, I'd be willing to accept any of [x~χ~ħ~h], really, although in my notes I have either [x] or [h]. This is partially what I meant by "it's not POA that's the problem" in my response to your previous reconstruction, [ˈχeɪ̯lin]. The problem, instead, was that the structure of the word is [xiˈCeɪ̯lin], not [ˈCeɪ̯lin], as I tried to clarify in the following paragraph of my last response.
Hopefully this clears things up.
Word 1 - [ˈsom-] is correct, and [-e] is very close. Please see below for more details.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - The third vowel is off in terms of quality. Please see below for more details.
Word 4 - [jeŋˈk-t-] is correct. [-aː] is partially correct. Your previous guess for the stressed vowel, [-uː-], was partially correct in more or less the same way.
Word 5 - The third vowel is off in terms of quality. Please see below for more details.
"some front vowel" is correct. [-e] isn't what I have, but I may end up treating it as essentially correct.
You're generally correct about vowel reduction in GH, I'd say, but there's a reason some vowels became [ə] while others were completely lost. There was lowering in Word 3 in IJ, but it wasn't unconditioned.
Word 1 - [ˈz-ʒu] is correct. Please see below for more details.
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - [t-ˈ-ɛːɻu] is correct. There is a nasal in the onset of the stressed syllable, but neither M nor N preserves its POA. Please see below for more details.
Word 4 - [ʒ-ˈguʒʒaʊ̯] is correct. [iː] is partially correct. Please see below for more details.
Word 5 - Please see my response below.
You're looking for falling diphthongs [VV̯] in the stressed syllable of Word 1 and the pretonic syllables of Words 3 and 4.
The geminate in your previous guess, [-ww-], was correct in terms of MOA. I'd recommend keeping in mind that it becomes [-ʒʒ-] in N.
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Spot-on!
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - Spot-on!
Word 3 - Spot-on!
Word 4 - Spot-on!
Word 5 - Spot-on!
Well done!
Word 1 - Spot-on!
Word 2 - [r-ˈ-ĩːzo] is correct. The quality of the pretonic vowel and the MOA of the second consonant are off.
Word 3 - All of the segments you've reconstructed are correct, but there's a consonant missing.
Word 4 - [ʒẽːˈgu-av] is correct. Please see below for more details.
Word 5 - [-iˈɣe-mə] is correct. Please see below for more details.
The cluster is [-Cd-], so you're partially correct. The other consonant isn't palatal in the way that, for example, [c ç j] are, but it's definitely one of the more "palatal" coronals, I guess I'd say.
You're very close! [Ci-] is correct, but the initial consonant is off in the same way that [-d-] is off in Word 2 (MOA). There's another consonant missing from a different syllable, however.
Word 1 - Two correct segments
Word 2 - Eight correct segments
Word 3 - Six correct segments
Word 4 - Five correct segments
Word 5 - Five correct segments
Something about the structure of Word 1 in A-R is "unstable", I guess I'd say, and each of the three descendants resolve this in a different way.
[ˈsV[+round,mid]m-] is correct.
Good thinking! [ranˈdimso] is exactly right!
For Word 3, two of the correct segments are in the incorrect order.
For Word 4, you changed one of the five correct segments you had last time, but also made the correct change to one of your previously incorrect segments.
For Word 5, I'm torn on whether to count a sixth segment as correct or not. The issue is related to the "structural" problems in A-F.