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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Posted: 29 Dec 2020 01:57
by ɶʙ ɞʛ
I [ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] - [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎ] - [ˈjə̰ʔ]
J [sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] - [dwɑ̀u̯] - [zéʎí] - [qə̀ː]
K [ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] - [ˈɲɒːθ] - [ˈdʑei̯] - [ˈŋəːx]

IJK: [ʃma:twat] - [ɟmaud] - [d͡zeʎi] - [qə:ʔ]

Is this grouping correct? /ɲ/ in K comes from an original palatal stop, which shifted to /d/ in J; and /m/ > /n/ next to coronals in K.

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Posted: 01 Jan 2021 22:23
by shimobaatar
I want to apologize for how long it's taken me to respond to this round of the game. Even after I finished everything I had to do for school, I was focused on participating in Lexember and also dealing with a lot in my offline life, so to speak.

This round has been very difficult, at least for me. In this first attempt, I'm not even going to try to reconstruct the original forms of the four words. I've tried multiple times over the past few weeks, but at some point I always find myself getting stuck and doing things that make no sense. Below the spoiler, I've only included the first few "stages", I guess, of my reconstruction, where things generally still make some sense to me.
Spoiler:
A [haə̯ˈlætʃɨ] - [ˈuɸtʃə] - [ˈɥøy̯m] - [ˈei̯tʃə]
B [xae̯ˈdeci] - [ˈuːce] - [ˈɟø̃ỹ̯] - [ˈɪi̯ce]

AB [xae̯ˈlæci] - [ˈuɸce] - [ˈjøy̯m] - [ˈei̯ce] 

I feel like my biggest problem here, currently, has to do with the correspondence between A [l] : B [d] in Word 1 and A [ɥ] : B [ɟ] in Word 3. I'm going with [l] and [j] for now.

C [kɑːˈrɐʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈɟaːm] - [ˈeːre]
D [ɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpudre] - [ˈdeə̯m] - [ˈeːdze]

CD [kɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpudzre] - [ˈɟeə̯m] - [ˈeːdze]

Aside from the initial consonant of Word 1, what's throwing me off the most is Word 2, specifically the medial cluster. At this point, I'm basically just taking a guess. 

E [anˈtθʲi] - [ˈtθʁa] - [iˈjumʲi] - [iˈkxa]
F [arˈtsiː] - [ˈtχaː] - [iˈjuːmi] - [iˈtsaː]

EF [arˈtθi] - [ˈtθʁa] - [iˈjumi] - [iˈtθa]

I'm not positive at all about [tθ] anywhere, but we'll see how this goes.

G [kaˈri] - [ˈtwe] - [ɪˈroi̯m] - [jɪˈɣe]
H [kaːˈθi] - [ˈtwɛj] - [eˈhəi̯m] - [dʒiˈhɛj]

GH [kaːˈri] - [ˈtwɛj] - [eˈroi̯m] - [jiˈɣɛj]

I [ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] - [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎ] - [ˈjə̰ʔ]

J [sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] - [dwɑ̀u̯] - [zéʎí] - [qə̀ː]

K [ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] - [ˈɲɒːθ] - [ˈdʑei̯] - [ˈŋəːx]

I spent so much time trying to get these three (or some subset of them) to fit together as neatly as, say, AB or GH, but nothing's felt right, so for now I'm just going to assume they're "isolates" within the family, at least at this level.

L [o̰ːˈla] - [ˈɬøw] - [ˈtæl] - [ˈɯ̤ː]
M [ħoˈle] - [ˈlɪwi] - [ˈnæli] - [ˈhɰɯ]

LM [ħoˈla] - [ˈlɪwi] - [ˈdæli] - [ˈhɯː]

I'm least sure about the initial consonants of Words 2 and 3. I feel like it's also possible that [ɰ] may have originally been present in Word 4, but I suppose we'll see.

N [aɴˈqχɔdə] - [ˈqadɮə] - [inˈɮɛɬ] - [ˈŋɘgɯ]
O [iχˈχoda] - [ˈqædza] - [ilˈlela] - [ˈʔiga]

NO [iɴˈqχoda] - [ˈqædɮa] - [inˈɮeɮa] - [ˈʔɘgə]

I'm least certain about the final vowels of all four words, as well as the stressed vowels of Words 3 and 4.

P [tʃə̯æi̯ˈjoθə] - [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] - [əˈʒeːə̯] - [ˈɨːə̯]
Q [θəseˈccoj] - [ˈjeɟɟəj] - [dəˈjeçə] - [ˈθɨcc]

PQ [tʃəsæcˈcoθə] - [ˈjæɟɟəʒə] - [dəˈʒeçə] - [ˈθɨccə]

I feel like I have a very poor grasp of what's going on here. I suspect there's more going on with the final vowels, but I'm not sure what. The correspondences involving the palatal stops in Q are particularly baffling. My original assumption was that they were original to PQ, but for whatever reason, I can't shake the feeling that something akin to the so-called "Faroese Verschärfung" may have taken place in Q instead. Alternatively, the solution may be something that hasn't even occurred to me!

R [ʔɑ́ːddʒèːð] - [ɸǿːl] - [ʒèːl] - [χèːð]
S [áːzèi̯dʒí] - [bói̯ɫɯ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [ɢèi̯dzí]
T [ʔǽɪ̯zzèdʑí] - [pǿʎɤ̀] - [ʒèʎý] - [qèdʑé]

RST [ʔáːzzèi̯dʒí] - [pói̯ɫɤ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [qèi̯dzé]

The correspondences between R [ddʒ] : S [z] : T [zz] in Word 1, R [ð] : S [dʒ] : T [dʑ] also in Word 1, and R [ð] : S [dz] : T [dʑ] are currently giving me the most trouble. I'm also rather uncertain about the voicing of the initial consonants of Words 2 and 4. 

U [ɑ̀ɣzə̀zâʃsì] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlý] - [zə̀zîʃsè]
V [ɑːrràttʃi] - [ówle] - [daʒlú] - [ərrìttʃe]

UV [ɑ̀ɣzə̀zâttʃì] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlú] - [zə̀zîttʃè]

The sequences that are giving me the most trouble at the moment here are [âʃs] in Word 1 and [îʃs] in Word 4 in U vs. [àttʃ] in Word 1 and [ìttʃ] in Word 4 in V. 

W [hæːˈzɑh] - [ˈhoh] - [ˈjeɫv̩] - [ˈçiːh]
X [hæːˈzɑːðə] - [ˈhoːʐə] - [ˈeːjɫu] - [ˈhiːɣə]

WX [hæːˈzɑθə] - [ˈhoʂə] - [ˈjeɫu] - [ˈhiːxə]

I suppose I'm assuming that [je] in Word 3 in W vs. [eːj] in Word 3 in X could be explained by metathesis, but looking at the word's cognates in UV, I'm not entirely sure about that. 

Y [ʂaːràtə] - [ʙóɻʷə] - [jawú] - [ʀìːcə]
Z [ʐaɐ̯rə̀də] - [ʙóɖɵ] - [jəlú] - [ʀèi̯gɨ]

YZ [ʂaːràtə] - [ʙóɻʷə] - [jalú] - [ʀìːcə]
I definitely don't feel right about how close my version of YZ is to Y.


AB [xae̯ˈlæci] - [ˈuɸce] - [ˈjøy̯m] - [ˈei̯ce] 
CD [kɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpudzre] - [ˈɟeə̯m] - [ˈeːdze]

ABCD [kaːˈræci] - [ˈpurce] - [ˈjøy̯m] - [ˈeːce]
I'm really not sure what's going on in Word 2.

EF [arˈtθi] - [ˈtθʁa] - [iˈjumi] - [iˈtθa]
GH [kaːˈri] - [ˈtwɛj] - [eˈroi̯m] - [jiˈɣɛj]

EFGH [karˈti] - [ˈtʁaj] - [eˈromi] - [jiˈtaj]

I [ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] - [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎ] - [ˈjə̰ʔ]

J [sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] - [dwɑ̀u̯] - [zéʎí] - [qə̀ː]

K [ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] - [ˈɲɒːθ] - [ˈdʑei̯] - [ˈŋəːx]

LM [ħoˈla] - [ˈlɪwi] - [ˈdæli] - [ˈhɯː]

I, J, and K still don't feel like they obviously fit anywhere, and LM doesn't seem to be particularly close to, for instance, NO.

NO [iɴˈqχoda] - [ˈqædɮa] - [inˈɮeɮa] - [ˈʔɘgə]
PQ [tʃəsæcˈcoθə] - [ˈjæɟɟəʒə] - [dəˈʒeçə] - [ˈθɨccə]

NOPQ [tisækˈkoθa] - [ˈgægəɮa] - [diˈɮeɬa] - [ˈθɨkə]

If NOPQ is a valid grouping, my reconstructions of NO and PQ surely must be off quite a bit. I'm really not sure what's going on here at this point.

RST [ʔáːzzèi̯dʒí] - [pói̯ɫɤ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [qèi̯dzé]
UV [ɑ̀ɣzə̀zâttʃì] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlú] - [zə̀zîttʃè]

RSTUV [ʔɑ̀ɣzə̀záddʒì] - [ɸówlè] - [ʒàʒlú] - [qèzíddzè]

Not to imply that I'm confident about any other part of this, but I'm positive that there's something I must be missing/getting wrong with regards to [q] : [z] in Word 4. 

WX [hæːˈzɑθə] - [ˈhoʂə] - [ˈjeɫu] - [ˈhiːxə]
YZ [ʂaːràtə] - [ʙóɻʷə] - [jalú] - [ʀìːcə]

WXYZ [ʂaːzàtə] - [ʙóʂə] - [jalú] - [ʀìːkə]

I originally reconstructed WXYZ with stress, but given RSTUV, I've changed my mind.

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Posted: 03 Jan 2021 23:44
by Ratsawn
I'll quickly respond to ɶʙ ɞʛ , and then I'll try to get a response to Shimobaatar soon.
Spoiler:
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 29 Dec 2020 01:57 I [ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] - [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎ] - [ˈjə̰ʔ]
J [sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] - [dwɑ̀u̯] - [zéʎí] - [qə̀ː]
K [ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] - [ˈɲɒːθ] - [ˈdʑei̯] - [ˈŋəːx]

IJK: [ʃma:twat] - [ɟmaud] - [d͡zeʎi] - [qə:ʔ]
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 29 Dec 2020 01:57 Is this grouping correct?
IJK is actually a correct grouping. Good job
Word 1: assuming the vowels are supposed to be low back rather than low front, they're correct (I assume it was just a typo). The initial and final consonant are correct
Word 2: again, I feel like you're vowels are typoed, so if you meant ɒu, then they're correct. If you didn't, then you're welcome. The final consonant is also correct.
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: The q and the ə: are correct, but the q is in the wrong place.
All the vowels in words 1, 2, and 4 are missing a feature (it's the same for all of them, and explains some of the divergence of K)
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 29 Dec 2020 01:57 /ɲ/ in K comes from an original palatal stop, which shifted to /d/ in J; and /m/ > /n/ next to coronals in K.
This is only sorta close, you're right that the surrounding sounds altered the POAs of the nasals in K, but the nasal-genesis is wholly different from what you've postulated. I hinted at it above.

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Posted: 04 Jan 2021 20:18
by Ratsawn
Here's my response to Shimobaatar. No worries about taking your time. I was actually relieved you took so long because it gave me a chance to focus on finals and life without this hanging over my head for a bit.

And as for the difficulty, as I look over things, I do see how the forms got more divergent than is normally expected from this game. The next one I do will be easier for sure, and I expect to give away several answers when the players get stuck, so don't fret.
Spoiler:
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 A [haə̯ˈlætʃɨ] - [ˈuɸtʃə] - [ˈɥøy̯m] - [ˈei̯tʃə]
B [xae̯ˈdeci] - [ˈuːce] - [ˈɟø̃ỹ̯] - [ˈɪi̯ce]

AB [xae̯ˈlæci] - [ˈuɸce] - [ˈjøy̯m] - [ˈei̯ce]
Word 1: only the third consonant is incorrect
Word 2: only the second consonant is incorrect
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: the diphthong and the consonant are incorrect
All your incorrect segments are only slightly off, so don't diverge too much in your next guess.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I feel like my biggest problem here, currently, has to do with the correspondence between A [l] : B [d] in Word 1 and A [ɥ] : B [ɟ] in Word 3. I'm going with [l] and [j] for now.
Good choice!
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 C [kɑːˈrɐʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈɟaːm] - [ˈeːre]
D [ɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpudre] - [ˈdeə̯m] - [ˈeːdze]

CD [kɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpudzre] - [ˈɟeə̯m] - [ˈeːdze]
Word 1: the initial consonant is off
Word 2: all the segments are correct, but some are in the incorrect order
Word 3: the nucleus is incorrect
Word 4: Correct!
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 Aside from the initial consonant of Word 1, what's throwing me off the most is Word 2, specifically the medial cluster. At this point, I'm basically just taking a guess.
The initial consonant in word 1 is the same in CD as in the larger group which CD came from (I call it by the letters, but to avoid giving too much away, I'll say Proto-West).
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 E [anˈtθʲi] - [ˈtθʁa] - [iˈjumʲi] - [iˈkxa]
F [arˈtsiː] - [ˈtχaː] - [iˈjuːmi] - [iˈtsaː]

EF [arˈtθi] - [ˈtθʁa] - [iˈjumi] - [iˈtθa]
Word 1: Essentially correct! Though technically the two affricates came from different rules, compare with word two if you care to search for the real form.
Word 2: the initial (assuming you mean it as an affricate) is incorrect.
Word 3: Correct!
Word 3: the consonant(s) is/are incorrect
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I'm not positive at all about [tθ] anywhere, but we'll see how this goes.
It's not correct anywhere, but two of the places you've reconstructed it have the same proto-form, while the third comes from a different source.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 G [kaˈri] - [ˈtwe] - [ɪˈroi̯m] - [jɪˈɣe]
H [kaːˈθi] - [ˈtwɛj] - [eˈhəi̯m] - [dʒiˈhɛj]

GH [kaːˈri] - [ˈtwɛj] - [eˈroi̯m] - [jiˈɣɛj]
Word 1: one consonant is incorrect
Word 2: one incorrect segment and one extra segment
Word 3: only m is correct, but everything else is very close
Word 4: only the unstressed vowel is correct, and there's an extra segment
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I [ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] - [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎ] - [ˈjə̰ʔ]

J [sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] - [dwɑ̀u̯] - [zéʎí] - [qə̀ː]

K [ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] - [ˈɲɒːθ] - [ˈdʑei̯] - [ˈŋəːx]

I spent so much time trying to get these three (or some subset of them) to fit together as neatly as, say, AB or GH, but nothing's felt right, so for now I'm just going to assume they're "isolates" within the family, at least at this level.
They are not "isolates" (I ended up with so many source languages in part because I wanted to avoid having isolates at any level), and I understand your frustration. You're most certainly overthinking this though. The answer is right under your nose, and it's way simpler than it seems.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 L [o̰ːˈla] - [ˈɬøw] - [ˈtæl] - [ˈɯ̤ː]
M [ħoˈle] - [ˈlɪwi] - [ˈnæli] - [ˈhɰɯ]

LM [ħoˈla] - [ˈlɪwi] - [ˈdæli] - [ˈhɯː]
Word 1: missing a segment
Word 2: the stressed vowel is incorrect
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I'm least sure about the initial consonants of Words 2 and 3. I feel like it's also possible that [ɰ] may have originally been present in Word 4, but I suppose we'll see.
The ɰ in M4 is part of a process that affected word 1 as well, but it got elided anyway, so that's just water under the bridge.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 N [aɴˈqχɔdə] - [ˈqadɮə] - [inˈɮɛɬ] - [ˈŋɘgɯ]
O [iχˈχoda] - [ˈqædza] - [ilˈlela] - [ˈʔiga]

NO [iɴˈqχoda] - [ˈqædɮa] - [inˈɮeɮa] - [ˈʔɘgə]
Word 1: two incorrect segments, and the qx is off
Word 2: the final vowel is off
Word 3: three incorrect segments
Word 4: the stressed vowel is off, but this is the only word where you've correctly reconstructed the final vowel. Weird, since the same process affected every word...
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I'm least certain about the final vowels of all four words, as well as the stressed vowels of Words 3 and 4.
Oh dear, sorry I had to burst your bubble.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 P [tʃə̯æi̯ˈjoθə] - [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] - [əˈʒeːə̯] - [ˈɨːə̯]
Q [θəseˈccoj] - [ˈjeɟɟəj] - [dəˈjeçə] - [ˈθɨcc]

PQ [tʃəsæcˈcoθə] - [ˈjæɟɟəʒə] - [dəˈʒeçə] - [ˈθɨccə]
Word 1: the pretonic vowel is missing something, and the three final consonants are incorrect (one is extra)
Word 2: the geminate is off in the same way as in word 1, and the stressed vowel is off in the same way as in word 1
Word 3: Essentially correct!
Word 4: the vowels are correct (though one is off in length)
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I feel like I have a very poor grasp of what's going on here. I suspect there's more going on with the final vowels, but I'm not sure what. The correspondences involving the palatal stops in Q are particularly baffling. My original assumption was that they were original to PQ, but for whatever reason, I can't shake the feeling that something akin to the so-called "Faroese Verschärfung" may have taken place in Q instead. Alternatively, the solution may be something that hasn't even occurred to me!
The final vowels are just as you reconstructed, Q lost them and then employed a few repair strategies. The palatal stops in Q can be explained by something that I feel should be called (but really isn't quite) metathesis causing their gemination, and their POAs are off for much less complex reasons. I'll explain more if you're still having trouble next round. I did a quick search for "Faroese Verschärfung" and nothing came up (literally just some pictures of buildings, no links). Would you mind sending me some way to look at that so I can let you know if I inadvertently employed it.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 R [ʔɑ́ːddʒèːð] - [ɸǿːl] - [ʒèːl] - [χèːð]
S [áːzèi̯dʒí] - [bói̯ɫɯ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [ɢèi̯dzí]
T [ʔǽɪ̯zzèdʑí] - [pǿʎɤ̀] - [ʒèʎý] - [qèdʑé]

RST [ʔáːzzèi̯dʒí] - [pói̯ɫɤ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [qèi̯dzé]
Word 1: the first vowel is incorrect and the final affricate is incorrect
Word 2: the nucleus of the first syllable is incorrect
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 The correspondences between R [ddʒ] : S [z] : T [zz] in Word 1, R [ð] : S [dʒ] : T [dʑ] also in Word 1, and R [ð] : S [dz] : T [dʑ] are currently giving me the most trouble. I'm also rather uncertain about the voicing of the initial consonants of Words 2 and 4.
In those correspondences, S will always give you the MOA and R the POA. Good job figuring out the voicing issue correctly.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 U [ɑ̀ɣzə̀zâʃsì] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlý] - [zə̀zîʃsè]
V [ɑːrràttʃi] - [ówle] - [daʒlú] - [ərrìttʃe]

UV [ɑ̀ɣzə̀zâttʃì] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlú] - [zə̀zîttʃè]
Word 1: all the vowels are correct, but none of them have the proper tone. One CV should be VC, and you're final consonant cluster is incorrect
Word 2: the final vowel has incorrect tone, otherwise correct
Word 3: the initial consonant and final vowel are incorrect, and the first vowel has incorrect tone
Word 4: identical comments as word 1
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 The sequences that are giving me the most trouble at the moment here are [âʃs] in Word 1 and [îʃs] in Word 4 in U vs. [àttʃ] in Word 1 and [ìttʃ] in Word 4 in V.
Both of these sequences simplified using assimilation, but in different ways.
Also, the tonal system of UV is much more akin to V than U, so that may help with your tonal problems.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 W [hæːˈzɑh] - [ˈhoh] - [ˈjeɫv̩] - [ˈçiːh]
X [hæːˈzɑːðə] - [ˈhoːʐə] - [ˈeːjɫu] - [ˈhiːɣə]

WX [hæːˈzɑθə] - [ˈhoʂə] - [ˈjeɫu] - [ˈhiːxə]
Word 1: Correct!
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
Great job!
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 Y [ʂaːràtə] - [ʙóɻʷə] - [jawú] - [ʀìːcə]
Z [ʐaɐ̯rə̀də] - [ʙóɖɵ] - [jəlú] - [ʀèi̯gɨ]

YZ [ʂaːràtə] - [ʙóɻʷə] - [jalú] - [ʀìːcə]
Word 1: the first two vowels are off
Word 2: the consonant is off (its suprasegmental is correct though)
Word 3: the first vowel is off, and the l is missing something (which explains one of its reflexes)
Word 4: the second consonant is off
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I definitely don't feel right about how close my version of YZ is to Y.
You made most of the right choices, Y is much more conservative than Z.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 AB [xae̯ˈlæci] - [ˈuɸce] - [ˈjøy̯m] - [ˈei̯ce] 
CD [kɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpudzre] - [ˈɟeə̯m] - [ˈeːdze]

ABCD [kaːˈræci] - [ˈpurce] - [ˈjøy̯m] - [ˈeːce]
Word 1: two consonants are off
Word 2: two consonants are off
Word 3: the vowel is off (the nonsyllabic portion is correct)
Word 4: the first vowel and consonant are off
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I'm really not sure what's going on in Word 2.
I will say that, at least for the initial, the opposite development happened in AB versus CD.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 EF [arˈtθi] - [ˈtθʁa] - [iˈjumi] - [iˈtθa]
GH [kaːˈri] - [ˈtwɛj] - [eˈroi̯m] - [jiˈɣɛj]

EFGH [karˈti] - [ˈtʁaj] - [eˈromi] - [jiˈtaj]
Word 1: the initial consonant is off
Word 2: only t is correct, the word should only have three segments (aside from stress)
Word 3: only m is correct, lots of problems here
Word 4: only i is correct, one extra segment (same one as in 2)
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I [ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] - [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎ] - [ˈjə̰ʔ]

J [sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] - [dwɑ̀u̯] - [zéʎí] - [qə̀ː]

K [ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] - [ˈɲɒːθ] - [ˈdʑei̯] - [ˈŋəːx]

LM [ħoˈla] - [ˈlɪwi] - [ˈdæli] - [ˈhɯː]

I, J, and K still don't feel like they obviously fit anywhere, and LM doesn't seem to be particularly close to, for instance, NO.
You're right about LM and NO being of different stock, but the answer is a bit simpler than you think.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 NO [iɴˈqχoda] - [ˈqædɮa] - [inˈɮeɮa] - [ˈʔɘgə]
PQ [tʃəsæcˈcoθə] - [ˈjæɟɟəʒə] - [dəˈʒeçə] - [ˈθɨccə]

NOPQ [tisækˈkoθa] - [ˈgægəɮa] - [diˈɮeɬa] - [ˈθɨkə]
Word 1: the last two vowels are correct, and one other is only off in terms of length. Figuring out the structure of this word at this stage may prove difficult
Word 2: one vowel is off in terms of length, one consonant is partially correct, and all other segments are incorrect. You reconstructed an extra syllable
Word 3: the final vowel is off (the development with the final vowels is a bit uncommon) and there's an extra segment
Word 4: one vowel is off in terms of length, and the initial consonant is incorrect (may be difficult to reconstruct, but the sound change is attested on the Index Diachronica, so it's unusual but plausible)
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 If NOPQ is a valid grouping, my reconstructions of NO and PQ surely must be off quite a bit. I'm really not sure what's going on here at this point.
This is a valid grouping, and something that might be helpful is that NO and PQ have much simpler syllable structures than NOPQ, and a lot of their differences are due to the differences in repair strategies they chose (most noticeable in word 1).
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 RST [ʔáːzzèi̯dʒí] - [pói̯ɫɤ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [qèi̯dzé]
UV [ɑ̀ɣzə̀zâttʃì] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlú] - [zə̀zîttʃè]

RSTUV [ʔɑ̀ɣzə̀záddʒì] - [ɸówlè] - [ʒàʒlú] - [qèzíddzè]
Before I begin, I feel obligated to mention that you need to go over the tonal systems of the daughters a bit more, as it's not just a simple LH tonal system. I won't comment on the tones below, but much of what you have is incorrect.
Word 1: three extra segments, one vowel is off in terms of length, and another ought to be a diphthong. One incorrect consonant as well
Word 2: two correct segments
Word 3: three incorrect segments
Word 4: two correct vowels, the other is extra. One extra consonant, and only one consonant is correct
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 Not to imply that I'm confident about any other part of this, but I'm positive that there's something I must be missing/getting wrong with regards to [q] : [z] in Word 4.
You are missing something. You are very right that it is a direct correspondence, but you ought to realize that the correspondence would be more accurately described as [q] : [zz]. Perhaps that will aid your reconstruction of UV, and I'll say more next time if necessary.
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 WX [hæːˈzɑθə] - [ˈhoʂə] - [ˈjeɫu] - [ˈhiːxə]
YZ [ʂaːràtə] - [ʙóɻʷə] - [jalú] - [ʀìːcə]

WXYZ [ʂaːzàtə] - [ʙóʂə] - [jalú] - [ʀìːkə]
Word 1: two vowels are incorrect
Word 2: one consonant is incorrect
Word 3: the first vowel is incorrect
Word 4: Correct!
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I originally reconstructed WXYZ with stress, but given RSTUV, I've changed my mind.
You made the right choice.

I thought you did very well on this, and your reconstructions alerted me to a lot of alternatives. I can't wait to see your next attempt, and your ideas at the higher levels. Great job specifically on the groupings! You got all of them right except for the ones you deemed "isolates."

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Posted: 07 Jan 2021 22:45
by ɶʙ ɞʛ
A [haə̯ˈlætʃɨ] - [ˈuɸtʃə] - [ˈɥøy̯m] - [ˈei̯tʃə]
B [xae̯ˈdeci] - [ˈuːce] - [ˈɟø̃ỹ̯] - [ˈɪi̯ce]

New AB: [xaə̯ˈðæCi] - [ˈuhCe] - [ˈʝøy̯m] - [ˈəi̯Ce]

C [kɑːˈrɐʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈɟaːm] - [ˈeːre]
D [ɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpudre] - [ˈdeə̯m] - [ˈeːdze]

New CD: [xɑ:ˈrædʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈdjæ:m] - [ˈeːdze]

ABCD: [xa:ˈðatʃi] – [ˈɸurtse] – [ˈðja:m] – [ˈai̯tse].

E [anˈtθʲi] - [ˈtθʁa] - [iˈjumʲi] - [iˈkxa]
F [arˈtsiː] - [ˈtχaː] - [iˈjuːmi] - [iˈtsaː]

New EF: [arˈtʰi] – [ˈtʰʁa] – [iˈjumi] – [iˈkʰa]

G [kaˈri] - [ˈtwe] - [ɪˈroi̯m] - [jɪˈɣe]
H [kaːˈθi] - [ˈtwɛj] - [eˈhəi̯m] - [dʒiˈhɛj]

New GH: [ka:ˈr̥i] – [twe] – [eˈrojm] – [jiˈxe]

EFGH: [karˈtʰi] – [tʰwa] – [eˈromj] – [jiˈkʰa]

A-H: [ka:ˈðatʰi] – [ˈtʰwerts] – [ˈðja:mj] – [ˈi:kse ~ ˈi:kʰe]

I [ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] - [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎ] - [ˈjə̰ʔ]
J [sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] - [dwɑ̀u̯] - [zéʎí] - [qə̀ː]
K [ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] - [ˈɲɒːθ] - [ˈdʑei̯] - [ˈŋəːx]

IJK: [ʃmɑ̀:dwɑ̀t] - [ɲwɒ̀u̯d] - [dzéʎí] - [qə̀:q]
> J: ɲ > n, n d t > d t ∅.

L [o̰ːˈla] - [ˈɬøw] - [ˈtæl] - [ˈɯ̤ː]
M [ħoˈle] - [ˈlɪwi] - [ˈnæli] - [ˈhɰɯ]

New LM: [qoˈlai] – [ˈlɪwi] – [ˈdæli] – [hɯ:]

IJKLM: [sqʷa:dwat] - [ɲləwdi] - [deli] - [qə:q]

N [aɴˈqχɔdə] - [ˈqadɮə] - [inˈɮɛɬ] - [ˈŋɘgɯ]
O [iχˈχoda] - [ˈqædza] - [ilˈlela] - [ˈʔiga]

New NO: [eqˈqodə] – [ˈqedɮə] – [inˈɮeɮə] – [ˈʔegə]

P [tʃə̯æi̯ˈjoθə] - [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] - [əˈʒeːə̯] - [ˈɨːə̯]
Q [θəseˈccoj] - [ˈjeɟɟəj] - [dəˈjeçə] - [ˈθɨcc]

New PQ [tsə̯æi̯ˈʔoθə] – [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] – [dəˈʒehə] - [ˈθɨ:i̯ʔ]

NOPQ: [səæ̯ˈqotə] – [ˈqjəæ̯dɮə] – [ˈnɮeɬə] – [ˈhiə̯kə ~ ˈkiə̯kə]

I-Q: [sa:qˈdwatə] – [ˈqʎa:wdɮə] – [ˈndɮeʎə] – [ˈqə:qə]

R [ʔɑ́ːddʒèːð] - [ɸǿːl] - [ʒèːl] - [χèːð]
S [áːzèi̯dʒí] - [bói̯ɫɯ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [ɢèi̯dzí]
T [ʔǽɪ̯zzèdʑí] - [pǿʎɤ̀] - [ʒèʎý] - [qèdʑé]
U [ɑ̀ɣzə̀zâʃsì] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlý] - [zə̀zîʃsè]
V [ɑːrràttʃi] - [ówle] - [daʒlú] - [ərrìttʃe]

RST [ʔájzzèjdzí] - [bójlɤ̀] - [ʒèjlý] - [ɢèjdzé]
UV [áɣzzàʒtsí] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlú] - [ə́zzìʒtsé]

RSTUV: [áɣzzàʒtsí] – [βó:jlè] – [ʒaʒlu] – [ɣzèʒtsé]

W [hæːˈzɑh] - [ˈhoh] - [ˈjeɫv̩] - [ˈçiːh]
X [hæːˈzɑːðə] - [ˈhoːʐə] - [ˈeːjɫu] - [ˈhiːɣə]

WX [hæ:ˈzɑθə] – [ˈhoʂə] – [ˈjeɫu] – [ˈhiːxə]


Y [ʂaːràtə] - [ʙóɻʷə] - [jawú] - [ʀìːcə]
Z [ʐaɐ̯rə̀də] - [ʙóɖɵ] - [jəlú] - [ʀèi̯gɨ]

YZ [ʂa:rə̀tə] – [ʙóɖʷə] – [jaɫʷú] – [ʀ̀i:kʲə]:

WXYZ: [ʂaːˈzatə] – [ˈβo:ʈwə] – [ˈjalu] – [ˈɣiːkə]

R-Z: [ʂaɣzzaɣtʰi] – [βo:ʈle] – [jajlu] – [ɣziɣkʰe]
I-Q: [sa:qˈdwatə] – [ˈqʎa:wdɮə] – [ˈndɮeʎə] – [ˈqə:qə]
A-H: [ka:ˈðatʰi] – [ˈtʰwerts] – [ˈðja:mj] – [ˈi:kse ~ ˈi:kʰe]
All: [sa:kˈdza:tʰi] – [ˈtɬwe:rtɬe] – [ˈndɮelm] – [ˈgi:kʰe]
All to A-H: l > j, but tɬ > tʰ. Metathesis of sVkC > skVC > kVC. Voiced stops reduce: d g > ð 0.
All to I-Q: tɬwe: > kʷɬe: > kʷlja: > qʎa:, g kʰ > ɣ x > χ > q, also k > q adjacent to /a/, coda r > w; a: e: > wa ja
All to R-Z: a: i: > a:ə i:ə > a:ɣ i:ɣ > ʕaɣ jiɣ > aɣ ziɣ, m̩ > u

Also, is it possible you could provide the initial phonology?

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Posted: 09 Jan 2021 20:30
by Ratsawn
In response to ɶʙ ɞʛ's second attempt:
Spoiler:
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 A [haə̯ˈlætʃɨ] - [ˈuɸtʃə] - [ˈɥøy̯m] - [ˈei̯tʃə]
B [xae̯ˈdeci] - [ˈuːce] - [ˈɟø̃ỹ̯] - [ˈɪi̯ce]

New AB: [xaə̯ˈðæCi] - [ˈuhCe] - [ˈʝøy̯m] - [ˈəi̯Ce]
In your next guess I would recommend trying an actual phoneme for the C filler if you actually want to get the proto-form.
Word 1: one incorrect consonant, and C might be right
Word 2: could be correct, all depends on C
Word 3: the initial consonant is off
Word 4: the initial diphthong is close, but off. C might be right
In case it wasn't clear before, you're right that everywhere you've reconstructed C, it's the same phoneme.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 C [kɑːˈrɐʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈɟaːm] - [ˈeːre]
D [ɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpudre] - [ˈdeə̯m] - [ˈeːdze]

New CD: [xɑ:ˈrædʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈdjæ:m] - [ˈeːdze]
Word 1: Correct!
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: the initial is off, it should only be one segment
Word 4: Correct!
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 ABCD: [xa:ˈðatʃi] – [ˈɸurtse] – [ˈðja:m] – [ˈai̯tse].
Word 1: one consonant and one vowel are incorrect
Word 2: two consonants are incorrect
Word 3: only m is correct
Word 4: the final vowel is correct, the rest is incorrect
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 E [anˈtθʲi] - [ˈtθʁa] - [iˈjumʲi] - [iˈkxa]
F [arˈtsiː] - [ˈtχaː] - [iˈjuːmi] - [iˈtsaː]

New EF: [arˈtʰi] – [ˈtʰʁa] – [iˈjumi] – [iˈkʰa]
Word 1: one segment is partially incorrect
Word 2: one segment is partially incorrect
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: one segment is partially incorrect
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 G [kaˈri] - [ˈtwe] - [ɪˈroi̯m] - [jɪˈɣe]
H [kaːˈθi] - [ˈtwɛj] - [eˈhəi̯m] - [dʒiˈhɛj]

New GH: [ka:ˈr̥i] – [twe] – [eˈrojm] – [jiˈxe]
Word 1: one incorrect segment
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: the initial vowel and final consonant are correct
Word 4: Correct!
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 EFGH: [karˈtʰi] – [tʰwa] – [eˈromj] – [jiˈkʰa]
Word 1: one incorrect consonant and one partially incorrect consonant
Word 2: one partially correct segment, one incorrect segment, and one missing segment
Word 3: m is correct. The structure is way off (hint: one daughter underwent metathesis)
Word 4: one partially incorrect segment, and the final vowel is off
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 A-H: [ka:ˈðatʰi] – [ˈtʰwerts] – [ˈðja:mj] – [ˈi:kse ~ ˈi:kʰe]
Word 1: the vowels are correct, one consonant is partially correct
Word 2: three correct segments, structure is totally off
Word 3: three correct segments, missing a syllable
Word 4: your second reconstruction is closer, but one segment is partially incorrect and it's missing a segment
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 I [ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] - [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎ] - [ˈjə̰ʔ]
J [sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] - [dwɑ̀u̯] - [zéʎí] - [qə̀ː]
K [ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] - [ˈɲɒːθ] - [ˈdʑei̯] - [ˈŋəːx]

IJK: [ʃmɑ̀:dwɑ̀t] - [ɲwɒ̀u̯d] - [dzéʎí] - [qə̀:q]
Word 1: two extra segments and one incorrect segment
Word 2: one extra segment and one incorrect segment
Word 3: correct* (see comments below)
Word 4: one extra segment
All the vowels in words 1, 2, and 4 are missing something. In addition, IJK does not have tone.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 > J: ɲ > n, n d t > d t ∅.
The nasals in K are innovations, not retentions.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 L [o̰ːˈla] - [ˈɬøw] - [ˈtæl] - [ˈɯ̤ː]
M [ħoˈle] - [ˈlɪwi] - [ˈnæli] - [ˈhɰɯ]

New LM: [qoˈlai] – [ˈlɪwi] – [ˈdæli] – [hɯ:]
Word 1: three correct segments, one missing and one extra
Word 2: the stressed vowel is off
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 IJKLM: [sqʷa:dwat] - [ɲləwdi] - [deli] - [qə:q]
Word 1: the vowels and the final consonant are correct. Two extra segments
Word 2: one partially correct segment, two extra segments, one extra syllable
Word 3: the stressed vowel is off
Word 4: the final consonant is correct
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 N [aɴˈqχɔdə] - [ˈqadɮə] - [inˈɮɛɬ] - [ˈŋɘgɯ]
O [iχˈχoda] - [ˈqædza] - [ilˈlela] - [ˈʔiga]

New NO: [eqˈqodə] – [ˈqedɮə] – [inˈɮeɮə] – [ˈʔegə]
Word 1: the first syllable is all incorrect, one other segment is partially incorrect
Word 2: the stressed vowel is off
Word 3: two incorrect segments
Word 4: the stressed vowel is off
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 P [tʃə̯æi̯ˈjoθə] - [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] - [əˈʒeːə̯] - [ˈɨːə̯]
Q [θəseˈccoj] - [ˈjeɟɟəj] - [dəˈjeçə] - [ˈθɨcc]

New PQ [tsə̯æi̯ˈʔoθə] – [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] – [dəˈʒehə] - [ˈθɨ:i̯ʔ]
Word 1: your triphthong needs an intervening consonant (which you correctly had in your last attempt), the vowels are all correct and the consonants are all incorrect
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: the long vowel is correct, the word should be two syllables
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 NOPQ: [səæ̯ˈqotə] – [ˈqjəæ̯dɮə] – [ˈnɮeɬə] – [ˈhiə̯kə ~ ˈkiə̯kə]
Word 1: your initial consonant(s) and another consonant are incorrect. the pretonic vowel is also incorrect (should not be a diphthong, but a long vowel)
Word 2: the diphthong is incorrect (see comments to word 1) and the initial consonant(s) is/are incorrect
Word 3: the first consonant is incorrect
Word 4: the initial is incorrect, and the stressed vowel should be a long monophthong
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 I-Q: [sa:qˈdwatə] – [ˈqʎa:wdɮə] – [ˈndɮeʎə] – [ˈqə:qə]
Word 1: two extra segments, one correct segment
Word 2: no correct segments
Word 3: the initial should be an affricate and the other consonant should be a lateral, as you reconstructed. No correct segments though
Word 4: the consonants are incorrect
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 RST [ʔájzzèjdzí] - [bójlɤ̀] - [ʒèjlý] - [ɢèjdzé]
Word 1: the first vowel is off, and it should be long instead of a diphthong
Word 2: the first three segments are close, but off
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: the initial consonant is off
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 UV [áɣzzàʒtsí] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlú] - [ə́zzìʒtsé]
Word 1: break up the three consonants with a schwa, and one other consonant is off in terms of voicing
Word 2: correct* (see comments below)
Word 3: the initial consonant and the final vowel are incorrect
Word 4: one consonant is off in terms of voicing
UV has a three tone system, so the tone system should be identical to V, not to U.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 RSTUV: [áɣzzàʒtsí] – [βó:jlè] – [ʒaʒlu] – [ɣzèʒtsé]
Word 1: there should be an initial consonant, the first vowel should be long and the following consonant is extra, and one other segment is incorrect
Word 2: one extra segment, two other incorrect segments
Word 3: two correct segments
Word 4: the final syllable is correct
The tonal system is more akin to UV than to RST
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 W [hæːˈzɑh] - [ˈhoh] - [ˈjeɫv̩] - [ˈçiːh]
X [hæːˈzɑːðə] - [ˈhoːʐə] - [ˈeːjɫu] - [ˈhiːɣə]

WX [hæ:ˈzɑθə] – [ˈhoʂə] – [ˈjeɫu] – [ˈhiːxə]
Word 1: Correct!
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
Great job!
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 Y [ʂaːràtə] - [ʙóɻʷə] - [jawú] - [ʀìːcə]
Z [ʐaɐ̯rə̀də] - [ʙóɖɵ] - [jəlú] - [ʀèi̯gɨ]

YZ [ʂa:rə̀tə] – [ʙóɖʷə] – [jaɫʷú] – [ʀ̀i:kʲə]:
Word 1: the first two vowels are incorrect (and they should be the same (except for length))
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: the l needn't be dark, and the first vowel should be the same as the correct first two in word 1
Word 4: Correct! (I assume the tone should be on the vowel, not the trill)
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 WXYZ: [ʂaːˈzatə] – [ˈβo:ʈwə] – [ˈjalu] – [ˈɣiːkə]
Word 1: the first two vowels are incorrect
Word 2: two extra segments (the vowel length is one of them) and the initial consonant is off
Word 3: the first vowel is incorrect
Word 4: the first consonant is off
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 R-Z: [ʂaɣzzaɣtʰi] – [βo:ʈle] – [jajlu] – [ɣziɣkʰe]
Word 1: one consonant is partially incorrect, one vowel is incorrect and the wrong length, and the velar fricatives oughtn't be there
Word 2: the long vowel should be short, there's an extra consonant, and two other segments are incorrect
Word 3: the initial consonant and final vowel are incorrect, and there's an extra segment
Word 4: the initial is off, the first vowel should be long (and without the velar fricative), and the other consonant is partially incorrect
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 R-Z: [ʂaɣzzaɣtʰi] – [βo:ʈle] – [jajlu] – [ɣziɣkʰe]
I-Q: [sa:qˈdwatə] – [ˈqʎa:wdɮə] – [ˈndɮeʎə] – [ˈqə:qə]
A-H: [ka:ˈðatʰi] – [ˈtʰwerts] – [ˈðja:mj] – [ˈi:kse ~ ˈi:kʰe]
All: [sa:kˈdza:tʰi] – [ˈtɬwe:rtɬe] – [ˈndɮelm] – [ˈgi:kʰe]
Word 1: four correct segments, two partially correct segments
Word 2: two correct segments, one partially correct segment
Word 3: two correct segments, one partially correct segment
Word 4: the vowels are correct, one consonant is partially correct, one missing consonant
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 07 Jan 2021 22:45 Also, is it possible you could provide the initial phonology?
Unfortunately, I cannot. I will say this though: words 1 and 2 had a feature which behaved differently in all three of the major subgroups. In addition, words 1 and 4 had a separate feature that behaved differently in the three subgroups.
I added a few alternative reconstructions in this response, if there's a contradiction in any later guesses, it is likely due to this. Apologies.

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Posted: 11 Jan 2021 03:00
by shimobaatar
Second attempt:
Spoiler:
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Here's my response to Shimobaatar. No worries about taking your time. I was actually relieved you took so long because it gave me a chance to focus on finals and life without this hanging over my head for a bit.

And as for the difficulty, as I look over things, I do see how the forms got more divergent than is normally expected from this game. The next one I do will be easier for sure, and I expect to give away several answers when the players get stuck, so don't fret.
Oh, well then, I'm glad that worked out!
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 I thought you did very well on this, and your reconstructions alerted me to a lot of alternatives. I can't wait to see your next attempt, and your ideas at the higher levels. Great job specifically on the groupings! You got all of them right except for the ones you deemed "isolates."
Well, thank you! I did better than I thought I would, at least. Hopefully I can gradually improve in the coming rounds.

A [haə̯ˈlætʃɨ] - [ˈuɸtʃə] - [ˈɥøy̯m] - [ˈei̯tʃə]
B [xae̯ˈdeci] - [ˈuːce] - [ˈɟø̃ỹ̯] - [ˈɪi̯ce]

AB [xae̯ˈlæki] - [ˈuɸke] - [ˈjøy̯m] - [ˈɪi̯ke] 
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: only the third consonant is incorrect
Word 2: only the second consonant is incorrect
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: the diphthong and the consonant are incorrect
All your incorrect segments are only slightly off, so don't diverge too much in your next guess.
Hmm… perhaps [k], then?

C [kɑːˈrɐʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈɟaːm] - [ˈeːre]
D [ɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpudre] - [ˈdeə̯m] - [ˈeːdze]

CD [xɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈɟaːm] - [ˈeːdze]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: the initial consonant is off
Word 2: all the segments are correct, but some are in the incorrect order
Word 3: the nucleus is incorrect
Word 4: Correct!
I'm not sure about [x] for Word 1 or [aː] for Word 3, but I suppose we'll see.
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 The initial consonant in word 1 is the same in CD as in the larger group which CD came from (I call it by the letters, but to avoid giving too much away, I'll say Proto-West).
Hmm, I'll try to keep this in mind for later.

E [anˈtθʲi] - [ˈtθʁa] - [iˈjumʲi] - [iˈkxa]
F [arˈtsiː] - [ˈtχaː] - [iˈjuːmi] - [iˈtsaː]

EF [arˈti] - [ˈtʁa] - [iˈjumi] - [iˈka]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: Essentially correct! Though technically the two affricates came from different rules, compare with word two if you care to search for the real form.
Word 2: the initial (assuming you mean it as an affricate) is incorrect.
Word 3: Correct!
Word 3: the consonant(s) is/are incorrect
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I'm not positive at all about [tθ] anywhere, but we'll see how this goes.
It's not correct anywhere, but two of the places you've reconstructed it have the same proto-form, while the third comes from a different source.
Regarding Word 2, if you meant for [tθ] to represent an affricate in E, then that's what I intended it to represent in my first reconstruction of EF as well. 

Maybe I'm misreading what you've written, but based on your comments regarding Word 1 specifically and [tθ] in general, it sounds like Words 1 and 2 originally had the same consonant. I'm not confident about [t] for Words 1 and 2 and [k] for Word 4. Maybe they should be aspirated instead? Or perhaps I'm completely off-track. 

G [kaˈri] - [ˈtwe] - [ɪˈroi̯m] - [jɪˈɣe]
H [kaːˈθi] - [ˈtwɛj] - [eˈhəi̯m] - [dʒiˈhɛj]

GH [kaːˈθi] - [ˈtwe] - [eˈsəi̯m] - [jiˈxe]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: one consonant is incorrect
Word 2: one incorrect segment and one extra segment
Word 3: only m is correct, but everything else is very close
Word 4: only the unstressed vowel is correct, and there's an extra segment
So, it seems like the initial [e-] in my first reconstruction of Word 3 and the initial [j-] in my first reconstruction of Word 4 are incorrect, but I'm not sure what else to guess at the moment, so I've left them alone for now.

I [ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] - [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎ] - [ˈjə̰ʔ]
J [sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] - [dwɑ̀u̯] - [zéʎí] - [qə̀ː]
K [ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] - [ˈɲɒːθ] - [ˈdʑei̯] - [ˈŋəːx]

IJK [ʃwɑ̰ːˈtwɑ̰t] - [ˈdwɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎi] - [ˈqə̰ːk]

There were a few possibilities I was considering for the vowels in Words 2 and 3, but I guess this is what I've settled on for now.

I'm almost entirely certain that I haven't reconstructed the original forms "responsible" for the I [ʃɸ] : J [s] : K [ʃn], I [ʋ] : J [tw] : K [ŋ], and I [ʋ] : J [dw] : K [ɲ] correspondences correctly. 
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 They are not "isolates" (I ended up with so many source languages in part because I wanted to avoid having isolates at any level), and I understand your frustration. You're most certainly overthinking this though. The answer is right under your nose, and it's way simpler than it seems.
Ah damn, I should have gone with my initial "instinct", I guess. I think I deleted my earlier attempts at reconstructing IJK, so I'll have to start over.

L [o̰ːˈla] - [ˈɬøw] - [ˈtæl] - [ˈɯ̤ː]
M [ħoˈle] - [ˈlɪwi] - [ˈnæli] - [ˈhɰɯ]

LM [ħoːˈla] - [ˈlewi] - [ˈdæli] - [ˈhɯː]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: missing a segment
Word 2: the stressed vowel is incorrect
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
I'm going with [e] for Word 2, at least for now, although there were a few other vowels I almost tried instead. 

N [aɴˈqχɔdə] - [ˈqadɮə] - [inˈɮɛɬ] - [ˈŋɘgɯ]
O [iχˈχoda] - [ˈqædza] - [ilˈlela] - [ˈʔiga]

NO [iɴˈχɔdə] - [ˈqædɮə] - [inˈlelə] - [ˈʔigə]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: two incorrect segments, and the qx is off
Word 2: the final vowel is off
Word 3: three incorrect segments
Word 4: the stressed vowel is off, but this is the only word where you've correctly reconstructed the final vowel. Weird, since the same process affected every word...
I'm sure that whatever's going on with the final vowels will be painfully clear in hindsight, but at least for the time being, it remains a mystery to me. We've got N [ə] : O [a] in Words 1 and 2, N [Ø] : O [a] in Word 3, and N [ɯ] : O [a] in Word 4. I'm going to reconstruct a final [ə] for all four words and see how that goes. 

For Word 1, do I understand correctly that there are two incorrect segments, one of which is the final vowel, and, in addition to those two, [qχ] is also incorrect?
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I'm least certain about the final vowels of all four words, as well as the stressed vowels of Words 3 and 4.
Oh dear, sorry I had to burst your bubble.
Huh? Oh no, the way I see it, you've confirmed that I was right to be uncertain about all that!

P [tʃə̯æi̯ˈjoθə] - [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] - [əˈʒeːə̯] - [ˈɨːə̯]
Q [θəseˈccoj] - [ˈjeɟɟəj] - [dəˈjeçə] - [ˈθɨcc]

PQ [tʃəsæi̯ˈkoðə] - [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] - [dəˈʒeçə] - [ˈðɨːkə]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: the pretonic vowel is missing something, and the three final consonants are incorrect (one is extra)
Word 2: the geminate is off in the same way as in word 1, and the stressed vowel is off in the same way as in word 1
Word 3: Essentially correct!
Word 4: the vowels are correct (though one is off in length)
I'm replacing [θ] with [ð] for now because I can't think of anything else, but I don't believe that's correct.

For Word 2, I'm assuming for now that Q [ɟɟ] is related to P [d], but I'm afraid I have no clue what's going on with the two instances of [cc] in Q.
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I feel like I have a very poor grasp of what's going on here. I suspect there's more going on with the final vowels, but I'm not sure what. The correspondences involving the palatal stops in Q are particularly baffling. My original assumption was that they were original to PQ, but for whatever reason, I can't shake the feeling that something akin to the so-called "Faroese Verschärfung" may have taken place in Q instead. Alternatively, the solution may be something that hasn't even occurred to me!
The final vowels are just as you reconstructed, Q lost them and then employed a few repair strategies. The palatal stops in Q can be explained by something that I feel should be called (but really isn't quite) metathesis causing their gemination, and their POAs are off for much less complex reasons. I'll explain more if you're still having trouble next round. I did a quick search for "Faroese Verschärfung" and nothing came up (literally just some pictures of buildings, no links). Would you mind sending me some way to look at that so I can let you know if I inadvertently  employed it.
Since you mentioned that one of the vowels in Word 4 should be long, I initially thought that the geminate palatal stops in Q might have arisen due to something like [VːC] > [VCC]. However, especially since you mentioned POA, I'm now wondering if the diphthongs in P were present originally in PQ and caused the palatalization of following consonants. 

Ah, sorry, I should have included more of an explanation right from the start. For brevity's sake, I won't try to cover all of the details here, just what's most relevant. At some point in the history of Faroese, most of the long vowels that the language had inherited from Old Norse became diphthongs. Later on, the high off-glides of many such diphthongs underwent fortition when not followed by consonants, resulting in /Vi Vu/ > /Vt͡ʃː Vkv/. The Faroese reflexes of Old Norse ey "island" and róa "to row" are thus oyggj and rógva, respectively. This fortition process is known as "skerping" or "Verschärfung" or "sharpening". However, confusingly, these terms can also refer to the vowel changes that subsequently took place in /Vt͡ʃː Vkv/ sequences, yielding rógva /ˈɹɛkva/ with a front unrounded vowel in the stressed syllable, for instance. 

R [ʔɑ́ːddʒèːð] - [ɸǿːl] - [ʒèːl] - [χèːð]
S [áːzèi̯dʒí] - [bói̯ɫɯ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [ɢèi̯dzí]
T [ʔǽɪ̯zzèdʑí] - [pǿʎɤ̀] - [ʒèʎý] - [qèdʑé]

RST [ʔɑ́ːʒʒèi̯dðí] - [pǿi̯ɫɤ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [qèi̯dðé]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: the first vowel is incorrect and the final affricate is incorrect
Word 2: the nucleus of the first syllable is incorrect
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
I'm not sure about the changes I've made to the vowels.
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 The correspondences between R [ddʒ] : S [z] : T [zz] in Word 1, R [ð] : S [dʒ] : T [dʑ] also in Word 1, and R [ð] : S [dz] : T [dʑ] are currently giving me the most trouble. I'm also rather uncertain about the voicing of the initial consonants of Words 2 and 4.
In those correspondences, S will always give you the MOA and R the POA. Good job figuring out the voicing issue correctly.
Oh, thank you! Hopefully I've interpreted this correctly, though!

U [ɑ̀ɣzə̀zâʃsì] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlý] - [zə̀zîʃsè]
V [ɑːrràttʃi] - [ówle] - [daʒlú] - [ərrìttʃe]

UV [ɑɣəzzàʃti] - [wówle] - [dʒaʒlý] - [əzzìʃte]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: all the vowels are correct, but none of them have the proper tone. One CV should be VC, and you're final consonant cluster is incorrect
Word 2: the final vowel has incorrect tone, otherwise correct
Word 3: the initial consonant and final vowel are incorrect, and the first vowel has incorrect tone
Word 4: identical comments as word 1
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 The sequences that are giving me the most trouble at the moment here are [âʃs] in Word 1 and [îʃs] in Word 4 in U vs. [àttʃ] in Word 1 and [ìttʃ] in Word 4 in V.
Both of these sequences simplified using assimilation, but in different ways.
Also, the tonal system of UV is much more akin to V than U, so that may help with your tonal problems.
Thanks for your help! Now, I realize that what you said wasn't "the tonal system of UV is identical to that of V", but I suppose that's what I'm assuming, for this round at least.

Hopefully I've interpreted your comment about CV vs. VC correctly. As for the difficult sequences in Words 1 and 4, I'm not entirely sure why, but I'll try [ʃt] for now.

W [hæːˈzɑh] - [ˈhoh] - [ˈjeɫv̩] - [ˈçiːh]
X [hæːˈzɑːðə] - [ˈhoːʐə] - [ˈeːjɫu] - [ˈhiːɣə]

WX [hæːˈzɑθə] - [ˈhoʂə] - [ˈjeɫu] - [ˈhiːxə]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: Correct!
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
Great job!
Oh wow, thank you! I honestly didn't expect to get any forms entirely correct, let alone all four for any given branch.

Y [ʂaːràtə] - [ʙóɻʷə] - [jawú] - [ʀìːcə]
Z [ʐaɐ̯rə̀də] - [ʙóɖɵ] - [jəlú] - [ʀèi̯gɨ]

YZ [ʂaɐ̯rə̀tə] - [ʙóɖʷə] - [jəɫú] - [ʀìːkə]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: the first two vowels are off
Word 2: the consonant is off (its suprasegmental is correct though)
Word 3: the first vowel is off, and the l is missing something (which explains one of its reflexes)
Word 4: the second consonant is off
I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the changes I've made to the vowels. Regarding the lateral in Word 3, I suppose I was assuming that its environment was enough to condition the shift to [w]. 

I'm definitely not sure about the labialized consonant in Word 2. I assume it's voiced and retroflex, so perhaps just [ɖʷ]?


AB [xae̯ˈlæki] - [ˈuɸke] - [ˈjøy̯m] - [ˈɪi̯ke]
CD [xɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈɟaːm] - [ˈeːdze]

ABCD [kaːˈlæki] - [ˈɸurke] - [ˈjay̯m] - [ˈei̯ke]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: two consonants are off
Word 2: two consonants are off
Word 3: the vowel is off (the nonsyllabic portion is correct)
Word 4: the first vowel and consonant are off
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 I'm really not sure what's going on in Word 2.
I will say that, at least for the initial, the opposite development happened in AB versus CD.
Let's see how this goes, although I'm not particularly optimistic. 

EF [arˈti] - [ˈtʁa] - [iˈjumi] - [iˈka] 
GH [kaːˈθi] - [ˈtwe] - [eˈsəi̯m] - [jiˈxe]

EFGH [xarˈti] - [ˈtre] - [iˈsoi̯m] - [iˈke]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: the initial consonant is off
Word 2: only t is correct, the word should only have three segments (aside from stress)
Word 3: only m is correct, lots of problems here
Word 4: only i is correct, one extra segment (same one as in 2)
I'm not sure what to do about "lots of problems", so I'm not sure if I'm any closer this time around. 

I definitely don't think that the [r] in Word 2 and the initial vowel in Word 3 are correct, but I'm not sure what else to guess at the moment. 

IJK [ʃwɑ̰ːˈtwɑ̰t] - [ˈdwɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎi] - [ˈqə̰ːk] 
LM [ħoːˈla] - [ˈlewi] - [ˈdæli] - [ˈhɯː]

IJKLM [ʃoːˈtot] - [ˈdøwde] - [ˈdzæli] - [ˈqəːk]

The apparent correspondences between laterals and coronal stops are confusing me the most, I think. 

NO [iɴˈχɔdə] - [ˈqædɮə] - [inˈlelə] - [ˈʔigə]
PQ [tʃəsæi̯ˈkoðə] - [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] - [dəˈʒeçə] - [ˈðɨːkə]

NOPQ [tisæːˈqoða] - [ˈɢæːdlə] - [diˈleɬə] - [ˈðɨːkə]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: the last two vowels are correct, and one other is only off in terms of length. Figuring out the structure of this word at this stage may prove difficult
Word 2: one vowel is off in terms of length, one consonant is partially correct, and all other segments are incorrect. You reconstructed an extra syllable
Word 3: the final vowel is off (the development with the final vowels is a bit uncommon) and there's an extra segment
Word 4: one vowel is off in terms of length, and the initial consonant is incorrect (may be difficult to reconstruct, but the sound change is attested on the Index Diachronica, so it's unusual but plausible)
Judging by your comments on Word 3, I get the feeling I have no idea what's going on with these final vowels. I also have no idea which segment in Word 3 could be the extra one.

There's a lot that I'm not happy with here, but I'm just going to leave it for now. I know you brought up several inaccuracies which I haven't addressed, but in those cases, I'm currently out of ideas for what else I could try.

I tried looking through the Index Diachronica, but I suppose I'm not close enough yet to even know where the right place to look would be.
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 If NOPQ is a valid grouping, my reconstructions of NO and PQ surely must be off quite a bit. I'm really not sure what's going on here at this point.
This is a valid grouping, and something that might be helpful is that NO and PQ have much simpler syllable structures than NOPQ, and a lot of their differences are due to the differences in repair strategies they chose (most noticeable in word 1).
I'll try to keep this in mind for the future.

RST [ʔɑ́ːʒʒèi̯dðí] - [pǿi̯ɫɤ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [qèi̯dðé] 
UV [ɑɣəzzàʃti] - [wówle] - [dʒaʒlý] - [əzzìʃte]

RSTUV [ɑːɣzzài̯ti] - [ɸóy̯lɤ] - [dʒai̯lý] - [qzìte]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: three extra segments, one vowel is off in terms of length, and another ought to be a diphthong. One incorrect consonant as well
Word 2: two correct segments
Word 3: three incorrect segments
Word 4: two correct vowels, the other is extra. One extra consonant, and only one consonant is correct
I'm not sure what's going on with the nucleus of the first syllable of Word 2. I'll try [oy̯] for now, but I'm not sure if I believe it myself. 

I'm also not sure about Word 4 in general. It seems like there should be a diphthong, but if two of the three monophthongs from my last reconstruction were correct, I suppose that can't be the case. I don't think I've addressed everything you mentioned, but this may be the best I can do at the moment. 
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Before I begin, I feel obligated to mention that you need to go over the tonal systems of the daughters a bit more, as it's not just a simple LH tonal system. I won't comment on the tones below, but much of what you have is incorrect.
I'll readily admit that tone is a weak point for me when it comes to this sort of thing - there are a few basic changes I'm comfortable and familiar with, but beyond those… 

I've based the tones here off of those in my current reconstructions of RST and UV. I can't be sure if any of what I have is correct, but hopefully I've gotten at least somewhat closer.
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18
shimobaatar wrote: 01 Jan 2021 22:23 Not to imply that I'm confident about any other part of this, but I'm positive that there's something I must be missing/getting wrong with regards to [q] : [z] in Word 4.
You are missing something. You are very right that it is a direct correspondence, but you ought to realize that the correspondence would be more accurately described as [q] : [zz]. Perhaps that will aid your reconstruction of UV, and I'll say more next time if necessary.
Hmm…

WX [hæːˈzɑθə] - [ˈhoʂə] - [ˈjeɫu] - [ˈhiːxə] 
YZ [ʂaɐ̯rə̀tə] - [ʙóɖʷə] - [jəɫú] - [ʀìːkə]

WXYZ [ʂaɐ̯zə̀tə] - [ʙóɖʷə] - [jəlú] - [ʀìːkə]
Ratsawn wrote: 04 Jan 2021 20:18 Word 1: two vowels are incorrect
Word 2: one consonant is incorrect
Word 3: the first vowel is incorrect
Word 4: Correct!
I'm not sure how I feel about the vowels in Words 1 and 3, or the consonants in Word 2.



ABCD [kaːˈlæki] - [ˈɸurke] - [ˈjay̯m] - [ˈei̯ke] 
EFGH [xarˈti] - [ˈtre] - [iˈsoi̯m] - [iˈke]

A-H [xaːˈlætˠi] - [ˈθr̩xe] - [iˈsoy̯m] - [ˈiːke]

OK, something has definitely gone wrong here. I don't really expect much, if any, of this to be right.

IJKLM [ʃoːˈtot] - [ˈdøwde] - [ˈdzæli] - [ˈqəːk]
NOPQ [tisæːˈqoða] - [ˈɢæːdlə] - [diˈleɬə] - [ˈðɨːkə]

I-Q [tisaːˈtˤoða] - [ˈdˤœːlde] - [diˈlæɬi] - [ˈrɨːkə]

My thoughts on A-H apply here as well. I never expected [Cˠ] or [Cˤ] to be the correct explanation for these apparent coronal-dorsal correspondences (I'm sure the actual explanation is that I've screwed up my lower-level reconstructions), but now that I've noticed that IJKLM has a coronal where NOPQ has a uvular in Words 1 and 2, but IJKLM has a uvular where NOPQ has a coronal in Word 4, I'm more certain than ever that I've completely gone off the rails. I don't have a very good reason for the initial consonant of Word 4.

RSTUV [ɑːɣzzài̯ti] - [ɸóy̯lɤ] - [dʒai̯lý] - [qzìte]
WXYZ [ʂaɐ̯zə̀tə] - [ʙóɖʷə] - [jəlú] - [ʀìːkə]

R-Z [ʂaːzzæ̀ti] - [ɸóy̯ɭɤ] - [jælú] - [qrìːtˠe]

I suppose I'm falling back on [tˠ] here as well. Again, I'm sure these kinds of correspondences are because I've messed up at a number of points leading up to this. Hopefully things will become a bit more clear in the next round.

I don't know how confident I feel about assuming [æ] > [ai̯] : [ə] either.




A-H [xaːˈlætˠi] - [ˈθr̩xe] - [iˈsoy̯m] - [ˈiːke]
I-Q [tisaːˈtˤoða] - [ˈdˤœːlde] - [diˈlæɬi] - [ˈrɨːkə]
R-Z [ʂaːzzæ̀ti] - [ɸóy̯ɭɤ] - [jælú] - [qrìːtˠe]

A-Z [ʂaːˈðæti] - [ˈθʷoy̯lle] - [jiˈɬælm] - [ˈqriːke]

I originally wasn't even planning to attempt to reconstruct the original forms this round, but I figured that I might as well.

I'd been neglecting to really compare different branches before now, so I was surprised to see some apparent similarities between my reconstructions of A-H, I-Q, and R-Z, although whether or not those similarities are meaningful or correct remains to be seen. 

I seem to have done the worst with Words 2 and 3. My guesses for the original forms here make no sense in the context of the forms I've reconstructed for A-H, I-Q, and R-Z. Words 1 and 4 aren't that much better off, probably.

Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Posted: 13 Jan 2021 18:37
by Ratsawn
In response to Shimobaatar's second attempt:
Spoiler:
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 A [haə̯ˈlætʃɨ] - [ˈuɸtʃə] - [ˈɥøy̯m] - [ˈei̯tʃə]
B [xae̯ˈdeci] - [ˈuːce] - [ˈɟø̃ỹ̯] - [ˈɪi̯ce]

AB [xae̯ˈlæki] - [ˈuɸke] - [ˈjøy̯m] - [ˈɪi̯ke]
The diphthong on word four is correct now, but the incorrect consonants (the k's here) are still incorrect. Your previous guess was closer.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 C [kɑːˈrɐʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈɟaːm] - [ˈeːre]
D [ɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpudre] - [ˈdeə̯m] - [ˈeːdze]

CD [xɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈɟaːm] - [ˈeːdze]
Word 1: Correct!
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: the vowel quality is only very slightly off (hint: look at D and think of GA English)
Word 4: Correct!
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm not sure about [x] for Word 1 or [aː] for Word 3, but I suppose we'll see.
X is correct! A disproportionate amount of fortification happened in this language family, so as you try to solve other problems, this might be useful to keep in mind. I'm sure you'll get the vowel of word 3 correct on your next guess.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 E [anˈtθʲi] - [ˈtθʁa] - [iˈjumʲi] - [iˈkxa]
F [arˈtsiː] - [ˈtχaː] - [iˈjuːmi] - [iˈtsaː]

EF [arˈti] - [ˈtʁa] - [iˈjumi] - [iˈka]
Word 1: Correct!
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
Great job!
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 Maybe I'm misreading what you've written, but based on your comments regarding Word 1 specifically and [tθ] in general, it sounds like Words 1 and 2 originally had the same consonant. I'm not confident about [t] for Words 1 and 2 and [k] for Word 4. Maybe they should be aspirated instead? Or perhaps I'm completely off-track.
You had the right idea here!
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 G [kaˈri] - [ˈtwe] - [ɪˈroi̯m] - [jɪˈɣe]
H [kaːˈθi] - [ˈtwɛj] - [eˈhəi̯m] - [dʒiˈhɛj]

GH [kaːˈθi] - [ˈtwe] - [eˈsəi̯m] - [jiˈxe]
Word 1: the second consonant is incorrect
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: the first consonant is incorrect
Word 4: Correct!
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 So, it seems like the initial [e-] in my first reconstruction of Word 3 and the initial [j-] in my first reconstruction of Word 4 are incorrect, but I'm not sure what else to guess at the moment, so I've left them alone for now.
I think it's funny that you've said that, because both of those segments are alternative reconstructions. I marked them as correct, but you can try some other things if you want.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I [ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] - [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎ] - [ˈjə̰ʔ]
J [sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] - [dwɑ̀u̯] - [zéʎí] - [qə̀ː]
K [ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] - [ˈɲɒːθ] - [ˈdʑei̯] - [ˈŋəːx]

IJK [ʃwɑ̰ːˈtwɑ̰t] - [ˈdwɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎi] - [ˈqə̰ːk]
Word 1: one extra consonant, two others are off
Word 2: one extra consonant, one other is off
Word 3: one extra segment
Word 4: one extra segment, one of the other segments should be where the extra one is
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 There were a few possibilities I was considering for the vowels in Words 2 and 3, but I guess this is what I've settled on for now.
Word 3 could use some tweaking, but good choices otherwise.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm almost entirely certain that I haven't reconstructed the original forms "responsible" for the I [ʃɸ] : J s : K [ʃn], I [ʋ] : J [tw] : K [ŋ], and I [ʋ] : J [dw] : K [ɲ] correspondences correctly.
You've certainly come a lot closer than I expected. The phonation on the vowels became glottalization, which created the nasals through rhinoglottophilia. I'm impressed that you figured that out. However, there's one other unconventional sound change at work (attested, don't worry) which accounts for all the extra segments you reconstructed. Good luck.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 L [o̰ːˈla] - [ˈɬøw] - [ˈtæl] - [ˈɯ̤ː]
M [ħoˈle] - [ˈlɪwi] - [ˈnæli] - [ˈhɰɯ]

LM [ħoːˈla] - [ˈlewi] - [ˈdæli] - [ˈhɯː]
Word 1: Correct!
Word 2: the stressed vowel is off
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm going with [e] for Word 2, at least for now, although there were a few other vowels I almost tried instead.
This vowel has two correct features (out of the three: roundness, fronting, height).
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 N [aɴˈqχɔdə] - [ˈqadɮə] - [inˈɮɛɬ] - [ˈŋɘgɯ]
O [iχˈχoda] - [ˈqædza] - [ilˈlela] - [ˈʔiga]

NO [iɴˈχɔdə] - [ˈqædɮə] - [inˈlelə] - [ˈʔigə]
Word 1: the stressed vowel and the two consonants preceding it are incorrect
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: the consonants are incorrect
Word 4: the stressed vowel is incorrect
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm sure that whatever's going on with the final vowels will be painfully clear in hindsight, but at least for the time being, it remains a mystery to me. We've got N [ə] : O [a] in Words 1 and 2, N [Ø] : O [a] in Word 3, and N [ɯ] : O [a] in Word 4. I'm going to reconstruct a final [ə] for all four words and see how that goes.
The later two correspondences you've mentioned here were both conditioned by the surrounding consonants, and the loss of central vowels afterward resulted in the first correspondence. Schwa was the correct proto-form, so I suppose I can tell you what happened. In word 4 in N, the schwa was pulled toward the velum by the preceding velar. In word 3 in N, the presence of a voiceless consonant caused the schwa to be deleted. After that, central vowels were lost in O, moving the schwa to [a] (hint: this happened to another central vowel).
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 For Word 1, do I understand correctly that there are two incorrect segments, one of which is the final vowel, and, in addition to those two, [qχ] is also incorrect?
I'm sorry I should've been more clear. I wanted to avoid confusion over the number because I never know whether to note an affricate as one segment or two. There were three incorrect segments then, the first two consonants and the final vowel. That said, I'm not sure why you changed the stressed vowel, it was correct in your previous reconstruction. Also, [qx] was closer to the original form than [x].
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 Huh? Oh no, the way I see it, you've confirmed that I was right to be uncertain about all that!
I think I read that you were "at least certain of the final vowels" rather than "least certain...." Whoops.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 P [tʃə̯æi̯ˈjoθə] - [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] - [əˈʒeːə̯] - [ˈɨːə̯]
Q [θəseˈccoj] - [ˈjeɟɟəj] - [dəˈjeçə] - [ˈθɨcc]

PQ [tʃəsæi̯ˈkoðə] - [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] - [dəˈʒeçə] - [ˈðɨːkə]
Word 1: the latter two consonants are incorrect
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: the initial consonant is incorrect (may be difficult to reconstruct)
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm replacing [θ] with [ð] for now because I can't think of anything else, but I don't believe that's correct.
It's not, but this change in Q is exceedingly difficult now that I look at it. It was attested in a single language in the Index Diachronica, so I put it in with a subsequent change as well. I'd lean more on more foreign cognates than on Q when reconstructing it. If you don't get it next time, I'll just tell you.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 For Word 2, I'm assuming for now that Q [ɟɟ] is related to P [d], but I'm afraid I have no clue what's going on with the two instances of [cc] in Q.
All these correspondences ([ɟɟ]:[d], [cc]:[θ], [cc]:[Ø]) are a result of the same two sound changes (the third one also had a third sound change).
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 Since you mentioned that one of the vowels in Word 4 should be long, I initially thought that the geminate palatal stops in Q might have arisen due to something like [VːC] > [VCC]. However, especially since you mentioned POA, I'm now wondering if the diphthongs in P were present originally in PQ and caused the palatalization of following consonants.
All of this is correct. [V:C] became [VCC], but only after the change where the diphthongs palatalized the following consonants. So together, Q went through 1) palatalization 2) diphthong smoothing 3) gemination/long vowel loss.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 Ah, sorry, I should have included more of an explanation right from the start. For brevity's sake, I won't try to cover all of the details here, just what's most relevant. At some point in the history of Faroese, most of the long vowels that the language had inherited from Old Norse became diphthongs. Later on, the high off-glides of many such diphthongs underwent fortition when not followed by consonants, resulting in /Vi Vu/ > /Vt͡ʃː Vkv/. The Faroese reflexes of Old Norse ey "island" and róa "to row" are thus oyggj and rógva, respectively. This fortition process is known as "skerping" or "Verschärfung" or "sharpening". However, confusingly, these terms can also refer to the vowel changes that subsequently took place in /Vt͡ʃː Vkv/ sequences, yielding rógva /ˈɹɛkva/ with a front unrounded vowel in the stressed syllable, for instance.
That's fascinating, especially considering that I did a similar change (the environment and the affected sounds are a bit different) in another language of this family. Good luck finding it.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 R [ʔɑ́ːddʒèːð] - [ɸǿːl] - [ʒèːl] - [χèːð]
S [áːzèi̯dʒí] - [bói̯ɫɯ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [ɢèi̯dzí]
T [ʔǽɪ̯zzèdʑí] - [pǿʎɤ̀] - [ʒèʎý] - [qèdʑé]

RST [ʔɑ́ːʒʒèi̯dðí] - [pǿi̯ɫɤ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [qèi̯dðé]
Word 1: the geminate and the affricate are incorrect
Word 2: Correct! (technically the whole diphthong is round, but that's getting quite nitpicky)
Word 3: Correct! (the l shouldn't be dark though)
Word 4: the affricate is incorrect
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm not sure about the changes I've made to the vowels.
Good choices.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 Oh, thank you! Hopefully I've interpreted this correctly, though!
I'm so sorry about my comments. I think I had it in my head that when I said POA, that dental and alveolar would be viewed as one unit. The affricate you've reconstructed here as [dð] should be [dz]. My comments were absolutely terrible, sorry for the confusion.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 U [ɑ̀ɣzə̀zâʃsì] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlý] - [zə̀zîʃsè]
V [ɑːrràttʃi] - [ówle] - [daʒlú] - [ərrìttʃe]

UV [ɑɣəzzàʃti] - [wówle] - [dʒaʒlý] - [əzzìʃte]
Word 1: the last consonant is off
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: the last consonant is off (same as word 1)
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 Thanks for your help! Now, I realize that what you said wasn't "the tonal system of UV is identical to that of V", but I suppose that's what I'm assuming, for this round at least.
That's what I should've said. They are identical. Man, I'm having a lot of clarity issues this time around.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 Hopefully I've interpreted your comment about CV vs. VC correctly. As for the difficult sequences in Words 1 and 4, I'm not entirely sure why, but I'll try [ʃt] for now.
You have! And [ʃt] is so close, only off in the second segment.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 W [hæːˈzɑh] - [ˈhoh] - [ˈjeɫv̩] - [ˈçiːh]
X [hæːˈzɑːðə] - [ˈhoːʐə] - [ˈeːjɫu] - [ˈhiːɣə]

WX [hæːˈzɑθə] - [ˈhoʂə] - [ˈjeɫu] - [ˈhiːxə]
All correct! Great job!
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 Y [ʂaːràtə] - [ʙóɻʷə] - [jawú] - [ʀìːcə]
Z [ʐaɐ̯rə̀də] - [ʙóɖɵ] - [jəlú] - [ʀèi̯gɨ]

YZ [ʂaɐ̯rə̀tə] - [ʙóɖʷə] - [jəɫú] - [ʀìːkə]
Word 1: the first two vowels are off (see comments)
Word 2: Correct!
Word 3: the l should have a different "-ization", not velarization/pharyngealization, and that first vowel is off.
Word 4: there should be an extra feature on k, think about what conditioned changes in the daughters
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the changes I've made to the vowels. Regarding the lateral in Word 3, I suppose I was assuming that its environment was enough to condition the shift to [w].
The incorrect vowels should all be the same (and the first of word 1 should be long as well). Hopefully my comments above on the lateral's secondary articulation are enough to get it right. It's pretty darn simple.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm definitely not sure about the labialized consonant in Word 2. I assume it's voiced and retroflex, so perhaps just [ɖʷ]?
Good choice!
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 AB [xae̯ˈlæki] - [ˈuɸke] - [ˈjøy̯m] - [ˈɪi̯ke]
CD [xɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈɟaːm] - [ˈeːdze]

ABCD [kaːˈlæki] - [ˈɸurke] - [ˈjay̯m] - [ˈei̯ke]
Word 1: not sure why you changed the initial. Also, the other two consonants are incorrect
Word 2: the initial consonant and the last consonant are incorrect
Word 3: Correct! (once again, not being too picky with diphthongs: [æy̯] is correct)
Word 4: the final vowel is correct
Not too far off anywhere
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 EF [arˈti] - [ˈtʁa] - [iˈjumi] - [iˈka] 
GH [kaːˈθi] - [ˈtwe] - [eˈsəi̯m] - [jiˈxe]

EFGH [xarˈti] - [ˈtre] - [iˈsoi̯m] - [iˈke]
Word 1: Correct!
Word 2: missing a segment
Word 3: the first consonant and the diphthong are incorrect
Word 4: missing a segment
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm not sure what to do about "lots of problems", so I'm not sure if I'm any closer this time around.
You are much closer this time, just a couple tweaks needed.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I definitely don't think that the [r] in Word 2 and the initial vowel in Word 3 are correct, but I'm not sure what else to guess at the moment.
You're in luck, because both of those are correct!
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 IJK [ʃwɑ̰ːˈtwɑ̰t] - [ˈdwɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎi] - [ˈqə̰ːk] 
LM [ħoːˈla] - [ˈlewi] - [ˈdæli] - [ˈhɯː]

IJKLM [ʃoːˈtot] - [ˈdøwde] - [ˈdzæli] - [ˈqəːk]
Word 1: the vowels are off in quality, the first and last consonants are missing something, and the other consonant is incorrect
Word 2: two incorrect segments, one extra segment, and one segment is missing something
Word 3: the initial consonant is off
Word 4: the vowel is off in quality and the consonants are incorrect
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 The apparent correspondences between laterals and coronal stops are confusing me the most, I think.
Those IJK coronal stops that match the LM laterals in words 1 and 2 shouldn't be there. See above for my comments on the unusual sound change that gave rise to them.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 NO [iɴˈχɔdə] - [ˈqædɮə] - [inˈlelə] - [ˈʔigə]
PQ [tʃəsæi̯ˈkoðə] - [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] - [dəˈʒeçə] - [ˈðɨːkə]

NOPQ [tisæːˈqoða] - [ˈɢæːdlə] - [diˈleɬə] - [ˈðɨːkə]
Word 1: one extra segment, the final vowel and the consonants are incorrect, one too many syllables
Word 2: the initial consonant is off (very close though)
Word 3: I don't want to cause confusion with my comments, so I'll be clear. It should be two syllables and start with an affricate. The stressed vowel and everything after it is correct
Word 4: the initial consonant is incorrect. If you don't get it next time, I'll give it away
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 Judging by your comments on Word 3, I get the feeling I have no idea what's going on with these final vowels. I also have no idea which segment in Word 3 could be the extra one.
Well you got most of them right (hint: they're all the same). And I've made it pretty this time here what's extra.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 There's a lot that I'm not happy with here, but I'm just going to leave it for now. I know you brought up several inaccuracies which I haven't addressed, but in those cases, I'm currently out of ideas for what else I could try.

I tried looking through the Index Diachronica, but I suppose I'm not close enough yet to even know where the right place to look would be.
You were pretty close with all your guesses (word 1 is still kinda far off, but you got most of the vowels), so whatever you did try was smart. It might be tough to find that change without knowing the proto-form or being all that certain of some of the lower-level groupings' proto-forms.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 RST [ʔɑ́ːʒʒèi̯dðí] - [pǿi̯ɫɤ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [qèi̯dðé] 
UV [ɑɣəzzàʃti] - [wówle] - [dʒaʒlý] - [əzzìʃte]

RSTUV [ɑːɣzzài̯ti] - [ɸóy̯lɤ] - [dʒai̯lý] - [qzìte]
Word 1: one extra segment, one missing segment, and the final consonant is incorrect
Word 2: the initial consonant is off, and the nucleus should be a long vowel
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: one vowel is off in terms of length, the final consonant is incorrect, and the initial is incorrect (hint: it should be a geminate)
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm not sure what's going on with the nucleus of the first syllable of Word 2. I'll try [oy̯] for now, but I'm not sure if I believe it myself.
It's not too far off.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm also not sure about Word 4 in general. It seems like there should be a diphthong, but if two of the three monophthongs from my last reconstruction were correct, I suppose that can't be the case. I don't think I've addressed everything you mentioned, but this may be the best I can do at the moment.
I hope my comments above will clear your uncertainties.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'll readily admit that tone is a weak point for me when it comes to this sort of thing - there are a few basic changes I'm comfortable and familiar with, but beyond those… 

I've based the tones here off of those in my current reconstructions of RST and UV. I can't be sure if any of what I have is correct, but hopefully I've gotten at least somewhat closer.
I'm totally in the same boat as you. Your tonal guesses here were all correct. I pretty much only worried myself with tonogenesis and some very macro changes, such as shifts in the entire paradigm. Like you, I'm not very adept at these types of changes, so you were right to think simple.

Something I feel is worth saying: I ended up with a lot of [z]s in the daughter languages of this family. A major proportion of those are due to the reverse of a common process in Indo-European languages, one that I found was equally common the other way crosslinguistically.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 WX [hæːˈzɑθə] - [ˈhoʂə] - [ˈjeɫu] - [ˈhiːxə] 
YZ [ʂaɐ̯rə̀tə] - [ʙóɖʷə] - [jəɫú] - [ʀìːkə]

WXYZ [ʂaɐ̯zə̀tə] - [ʙóɖʷə] - [jəlú] - [ʀìːkə]
Word 1: the first two vowels are off (should be the same as YZ when you get them correct)
Word 2: the second consonant is incorrect
Word 3: the first vowel is off (once again, same as the correct YZ vowel)
Word 4: Correct!
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I'm not sure how I feel about the vowels in Words 1 and 3, or the consonants in Word 2.
Those incorrect vowels are the same as each other, the same as YZ, and the same as a daughter lang of YZ.

In word two, you're right about the medial consonant being retroflex and a stop, but the other two features of it are incorrect (voicing and secondary articulation).
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 ABCD [kaːˈlæki] - [ˈɸurke] - [ˈjay̯m] - [ˈei̯ke] 
EFGH [xarˈti] - [ˈtre] - [iˈsoi̯m] - [iˈke]

A-H [xaːˈlætˠi] - [ˈθr̩xe] - [iˈsoy̯m] - [ˈiːke]
Word 1: the first syllable is correct, the final vowel is correct, and another consonant is partially correct
Word 2: the final vowel is correct (there should be a vowel in here, lean more towards ABCD for your reconstruction of the word)
Word 3: only m is correct. When ABCD became monosyllabic in this word, it wasn't the initial syllable that fell off, but the initial consonant of the final syllable that elided away and left a diphthong in its place
Word 4: there should be an initial consonant
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 OK, something has definitely gone wrong here. I don't really expect much, if any, of this to be right.
Don't beat yourself up. You did very well on words 1 and 4.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 IJKLM [ʃoːˈtot] - [ˈdøwde] - [ˈdzæli] - [ˈqəːk]
NOPQ [tisæːˈqoða] - [ˈɢæːdlə] - [diˈleɬə] - [ˈðɨːkə]

I-Q [tisaːˈtˤoða] - [ˈdˤœːlde] - [diˈlæɬi] - [ˈrɨːkə]
Word 1: one extra syllable (including two extra segments), two incorrect consonants and one in the wrong place, all the vowels are incorrect
Word 2: one correct segment, but it's in the wrong place
Word 3: the final vowel is correct, hopefully cleaning up NOPQ will aid with the rest of this word
Word 4: the initial is incorrect, and the other consonant is missing something
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 My thoughts on A-H apply here as well. I never expected [Cˠ] or [Cˤ] to be the correct explanation for these apparent coronal-dorsal correspondences (I'm sure the actual explanation is that I've screwed up my lower-level reconstructions), but now that I've noticed that IJKLM has a coronal where NOPQ has a uvular in Words 1 and 2, but IJKLM has a uvular where NOPQ has a coronal in Word 4, I'm more certain than ever that I've completely gone off the rails. I don't have a very good reason for the initial consonant of Word 4.
The actual explanation is that you've screwed up your lower-level reconstructions. Hopefully I can provide some insight. I don't want to give too much away, but [Cˤ] is a fantastic idea. It doesn't apply to the correspondences you placed it in here, but it appears four times in I-Q. The [Cˤ] idea is something you should always have in the back of your mind in this language family, as it's somewhat of a theme, the idea I had that birthed this challenge. Hopefully I haven't said too much or too little.

As for the coronal-uvular correspondences, I can tell you that word 1 has a coronal in IJKLM and a uvular in NOPQ, but not the ones you reconstructed. Word 2 is the same. Word 4 has no such correspondence. As a matter of fact, both reflexes of the word 4 initial have the same POA, and it is not uvular or coronal.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 RSTUV [ɑːɣzzài̯ti] - [ɸóy̯lɤ] - [dʒai̯lý] - [qzìte]
WXYZ [ʂaɐ̯zə̀tə] - [ʙóɖʷə] - [jəlú] - [ʀìːkə]

R-Z [ʂaːzzæ̀ti] - [ɸóy̯ɭɤ] - [jælú] - [qrìːtˠe]
Word 1: the first two vowels are off in terms of quality
Word 2: only the final vowel is correct
Word 3: the second consonant is correct (lean more on RSTUV here)
Word 4: the vowels are correct (lean more on WXYZ here)
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I suppose I'm falling back on [tˠ] here as well. Again, I'm sure these kinds of correspondences are because I've messed up at a number of points leading up to this. Hopefully things will become a bit more clear in the next round.
Your analysis here is correct, that your reconstructions of lower forms are once again creating much more difficulty than there should be. Something that may help the whole affair is to think about Spanish. Latin 'multus' > 'muito' > 'mucho'. Those latter two forms, and the sound change associated with them, may help.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I don't know how confident I feel about assuming [æ] > [ai̯] : [ə] either.
Be more confident! The ash here is only very slightly off from the real form.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 A-H [xaːˈlætˠi] - [ˈθr̩xe] - [iˈsoy̯m] - [ˈiːke]
I-Q [tisaːˈtˤoða] - [ˈdˤœːlde] - [diˈlæɬi] - [ˈrɨːkə]
R-Z [ʂaːzzæ̀ti] - [ɸóy̯ɭɤ] - [jælú] - [qrìːtˠe]

A-Z [ʂaːˈðæti] - [ˈθʷoy̯lle] - [jiˈɬælm] - [ˈqriːke]
Word 1: the first and last vowels are correct, as is the last consonant. A segment is missing
Word 2: the diphthong should be a short monophthong and the final vowel is correct
Word 3: two correct segments, but only one is in the right place. The stress is also supposed to be on the first syllable, and there are one too many segments
Word 4: the vowels are correct, and the last consonant is correct as well. One extra segment and one missing segment
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:00 I originally wasn't even planning to attempt to reconstruct the original forms this round, but I figured that I might as well.

I'd been neglecting to really compare different branches before now, so I was surprised to see some apparent similarities between my reconstructions of A-H, I-Q, and R-Z, although whether or not those similarities are meaningful or correct remains to be seen. 

I seem to have done the worst with Words 2 and 3. My guesses for the original forms here make no sense in the context of the forms I've reconstructed for A-H, I-Q, and R-Z. Words 1 and 4 aren't that much better off, probably.
I'm glad you reconstructed this. You're surprisingly close! You're right that words 2 and 3 are the furthest off, but that is mostly because your reconstructions of them in lower levels were also not that great. If I can direct you, the bad reconstructions that are throwing you the furthest off are A-H words 2 and 3. For word three's structure (I'll comment on 2's structure another time), look at R-Z. Every segment in R-Z has an exact correspondence in A-Z, but it lost one (which one is not that difficult to figure out).

Hopefully all this will inform your next guess, and hopefully it won't take me so long to respond next time.