Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

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All4Ɇn
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

𢺺價 (Vã·Gà)- Discounts
𢺺價 is the Ởnh·Vú word for discount and literally means "divide the price". Like in Mandarin, Ởnh·Vú discounts are expressed in a way that is basically the opposite of how they are in English. Rather than saying how much of a price's total was subtracted off the original price, Ởnh·Vú discounts simply show what percentage something costs now compared to the original price. Why so many languages don't do it this way I'll never know because even as a native English speaker, this method makes way more sense to me! Below are explanations behind two phrases used for expressing discounts


𢺺(名詞)X百分 (Vã (menh·rư) X bac·pun)- To make (a noun) X% off
This expression literally means "to split (a noun) (to) X percent" and has a variety of translations into English including not only the above but also "to slash (a noun's) price to X%" and other similar expressions. Given how discounts are calculated in Ởnh·Vú, whatever number is placed in X, is the percentage of the total that is paid, not the percentage taken off.

众𢺺利率60百分
Đrí vã lì·luit nam·sủ bac·pun
We are slashing interest rates by 40% (1p.EX.FORM split interest-rate sixty percent)

If expressing a reduction not in something, but in the price of something, the word for price, 價 (gà), must be included in the sentence:
众𢺺𨔈ヌ𧶮價60百分
Đrí vã màinh·màinh mờ gà nam·sủ bac·pun
We are slashing the price of toys by 40%/We are discounting toys 40% (1p.EX.FORM split toy PREP price sixty percent)


抷罖(名詞) (Sãnh sả (menh·rư)) - To make (a noun) 50% off
The only discount that can't be used with the previous is 50% which has the completely different expression 抷罖姅 (sãnh sả) which literally means "to make be half".
众抷罖姅利率
Đrí sãnh sả lì·luit
We are slashing interest rates by 50% / We are halving interest rates (1p.EX.FORM be.CAUS half interest-rate)

Like with the previous expression If expressing a reduction not in something, but in the price of something, the word for price, 價 (gà), must be included in the sentence.
众抷罖姅𨔈ヌ𧶮價
Đrí sãnh sả màinh·màinh mờ gà
We are slashing the price of toys by 50% / We are halving the price of toys (1p.EX.FORM be.CAUS half toy PREP price)


X𢺺 (Vã)- X% off
This expression can't exactly be translated literally as 𢺺 is not really used in any similar sense outside of this expression. This expression works identically to Chinese 折, thus in order to find the price of the discounted item from the number listed, the number is multiplied by one tenth and then turned into a percentage:
4𢺺 (Pãt vã) = (4*0.1) = 0.4 = 40% = 60% off
6𢺺 (Nam vã) = (6*0.1) = 0.6 = 60% = 40% off

The only weird number is once again 50%. Although in writing it's still completely regular, in pronunciation the 5 is irregularly said as sả, the word for half:
5𢺺 (Sả vã)- 50% off
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 07 May 2020 22:44, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis »

Brilliant share! I've never before seen a conlang description that explained how to express discounts in that language.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

Khemehekis wrote:
06 May 2020 18:46
Brilliant share! I've never before seen a conlang description that explained how to express discounts in that language.
Glad you appreciated it! I just went back and made some major changes to it if you're interested. Made things a little less inconsistent

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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Sevly »

Love these types of deep lexical posts! I’m gonna have to go back through the thread and read more

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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by dva_arla »

I might've entered quite too late to this board, but I have to ask a question: how did an Austronesian language like Ởnh·Vú (and Cham, for the matter) develop its tones?

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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

dva_arla wrote:
01 Aug 2020 09:21
I might've entered quite too late to this board, but I have to ask a question: how did an Austronesian language like Ởnh·Vú (and Cham, for the matter) develop its tones?
I still have plenty to post to this board actually [:)]. The Sinosphere is filled with languages from many different families that all developed tones, many of them did so essentially because of the same sound changes. Here are some of the most common sound changes with some examples from from Ởnh·Vú:

1. A final glottal stop is dropped, causing a rising tone: 𦖑/hớ (hear/listen) comes from proto-Chamic /həməʔ/
2. A final -s/-h is dropped, causing a falling tone: 𩈘/bò (face) comes from proto-Chamic /bɔh/
3. A split occurred in many languages including Vietnamese, Thai, and many varieties of Chinese (and is present in Ởnh·Vú) where these two previous tones turned into 4, depending on whether the first consonant was voiced or unvoiced, 杜/tủ comes from proto-Chamic /tuh/, with the <ả> tone splitting from <à> after a voiceless stop

These 3 are the main changes causing the tones throughout East Asia, Ởnh·Vú has many more sound changes caused by tones, some of which are found in many languages in the are others not so much. Some more language specific changes include:

a. An aspirated/murmured consonant is deaspirated, leaving a rising tone: 天/tén (sky) comes from Middle Chinese /tʰen/. This change is fairly recent in Ởnh·Vú and thus is unaffected by the tone split
b. Vowel length is lost and is instead realized as the <ã> tone: 㗂𨖨/bã·sã (language) comes from Sanskrit /bʱɑ́ː.ʂɑː/. A similar situation is found in Ancient Greek long vowels. Intervocalic consonants are typically dropped in Ởnh·Vú, often causing this sound change in its place
c. Chinese loanwords were generally given the same tone as that present when the word was borrowed: 現象/hèn·giánh (phenomena) comes from Middle Chinese /hèn zɨɐ́ŋ/
d. French loanwords generally add a high tone on the finally syllable and often add a low tone to the prior syllables: 價别/gà·tó (cake) comes from French /ɡɑ.to/
e. Some more specific sound changes may cause tone changes such as final /ej/ becoming /í~ì/: 沁泥/ma·ní (bathe) comes from proto-Chamic /manɛj/
f. Words may undergo multiple sound changes which would result in a tone, when this happens the word may change the tone completely: 氣/kĩ (aura/feeling) comes from Middle Chinese /kʰɨ̀i/ where the combination of aspiration and low tone resulted in <ã> becoming this word's tone
g. Sometimes tones in these languages can appear in words seemingly out of nowhere: 芒/bà (carry/bring/wear) comes from proto-Chamic /ba/ and the tone was added later to distinguish it from 𢩮/ba (lead) which is also from (a semantically distinct) pC /ba/


Hopefully this helped shed some light on this and wasn't too long and confusing. I haven't read much about tones in a long time and it was great to get a refresher on this subject.

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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by dva_arla »

Wasn't any confusing at all, and a detailed description cannot be too much long! Did some of the changes actually happen in OTL Chamic / Champan language though?

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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

dva_arla wrote:
05 Aug 2020 04:13
Wasn't any confusing at all, and a detailed description cannot be too much long! Did some of the changes actually happen in OTL Chamic / Champan language though?
None of these changes are found in proto-Chamic which is part of what makes this whole thing so incredible with the Southeast Asian Sprachbund. Even within languages in the same family, the same or similar sound changes took place independently of each other. In the case of the Chamic languages, some languages even developed tones earlier or later than others in the family. Some have even only gained tones due to recent bilingualism in Vietnamese within the past century or so.

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