europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

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Zé do Rock
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock »

EUROPIX FASE H (again)

(english further down)

Dormouse, me permite disacordar de você. I bin kain rassist. Never a blak friend de mine calld me a racist (and i hav told ta joke to quite a few de them - they had a goode haha), there ar plus dan 200 reviews abaut my bookes and i hav neva seen a critic seying dat i'm racist (i hope the term 'black' is OK - some pople hav told me i shouldnt usa it either, since dat color is associee with mourning e deth). Peutêtre tu has censuree la blague parce que je suis raciste contra les blancs, lorsque el idiot dans la histoire etait blanc (il a fallu quil soit blanc pour faire la blague fonccioner), mais allors il ne faudrait pas censurer la blague avec les finlandais aussi, qui dit que les finlandais sont des soûlards? O la chistes sobre la judios, ellos son antisemitas meme cuando contee por judíos?

Dos anos 50 aos anos 70 muitas leges prohibitivas foram abolidas: fraun wurden erlaubt zu werken, a pass or a führercarta zu machen one die erlaubnis af ir manner, negre in den USA durften denn neben a waissen im bus zu sitzen, homosexualitee wurde decriminalisiert, etc. Also in my country Brazil, but den we had a military dictatorship, e censorship in the media was horrible. Ils ne censuraient pas seulement des coses qui etaient contra la gouvernement, ils censuraient aussi des coses qui POURRAIENT etre contra la gouvernement, comme la foto aerienne af un carrefour in un autoroute qui rappelait les censeurs af une female genitale part, et lorsque cetait la gouvernement qui construait el autoroute, ils pensaient que sa pourrait etre una critique au gouvernement. Mas la vida normal era OK pra la gente que echaba no bombas u organisaba huelgas. Eu joguei no bombas ou organizei greves, eu aind er um adolesent, mas eu tambem fui uma victima do sistem: i raiste dur Südamerica, cam bak üba den Amazonas e die militars na grenze dachten, maine cunstsprache war a terroristen o spion cod, so war i im knast für 2 monat.

Ava gau wurd Brasilien wedder a democratie. The world had become plus free, and i thaut it was the beginning af a glorious era de libertee. Malheuresement ce netait pas la debut, cetait la sommee. Pararon eliminar leges restrictivas e comenzaron prohibir lo que podían: fumar, beber - vor 2 jaren ferlor i das recht, auto o farrad zu faren, wail si mi besoffen auf dem farrad erwishten. För 13 moonden, ava denn lir ik a par lü kennen de disse recht för jümmer ferloren, wil se nich dat geld had, noch plus testen to talen, de bewisen cunn, dat se mental nich malade sünd, dh alcoholiker (de undernemen de de testen maakt, kriegt feel mer geld wenn du nich dörcaams). E the politicale correctness keeps expanding all the time, wordes ar prohibit (as in the baptist family e church de my childhood), you cant sey eskimo enymore, although calling them inuits is wrong, since most eskimos ar NOT inuits. You'r not supposed (at least in Germany) to sey gipsy (zigeuner) enymor, cause ta could ofende them, even if quite a few gipsy associaciones and instituciones ar absolutly against calling them "sinti e roma", e the gipsies i know keep calling themself gipsis. Allora, la politiquement correct protege aussi des gens qui ne voulaient pas du tout etre protegee et renommee. La palabra 'americano' tambien tiene un senso negativo oy dei na mundo, entonces debríamos prohibir la palabra e llamarlos de texanos o mexicanos?

Pra proteger tod aquela gent, estamos nos distanciando da verdee, ja que nem todos ciganos sao sinti ou roma, nem todos eskimós sao inuits, e no todos pretos sao negros, e negros no sao gente de cor - branco é a mistura de todas as cores, negro a falta de cor, entao a gente deveria dizer "pessoas sem cor" cuando fala deles. Burkas werden in Francrei e Belgien ferboten - im namen der fraihait! Wenn du dat book 1984 lesen hes, ward dat di kent förcamen. Even eating e drinking (also water) is being banned from public transport in quite a few countries or citis, in som US stades pople who used deodorant or parfum arent permited into stat instituciones or restaurants, to "protecte" the pople who feel disturbee. Je hai fait un film et il a fallu enlever une sena - il avait a voir avec des brasiliens et juifs, et la blague etait sur el incompentence des brasiliens, mais les blagues ou des juifs aparaitrent ne sont pas permis (au moins en Allemagne, par son histoire - pas par des leges oficiales, mais par precion populaire, meme si la majoritee nest pas dacor). Mai femra es la director af un mega museo en Alemania, e ella casi perdió su puesto por un exposición donde hab ai un cuadro af el pintor Tiepolo, af el seclo 18, que mostrab un caballero af el alto de su caballo con una espada cerca la cabez af un negro - af una persona con una piel un poco mas oscur - podría ser comprendee como un caballero declarando alguién otro como un caballero, mas tambien podría ser comprendee como si el queria le cortar la cabez. E claro que as explicassoes pros cuadros ha que ser todas de genero, tu pode no mais dizer "os pintores do 18. seculo", tu ha que dizer "os pintores e pintoras do século 18" (em alemao, é claro). E nich wenige museen mussten ire acte von iren wanden abzin - im Mittelalter war es wegen God, nau is es "wail si fraun als objecte" zaigen. Ik kenn nich fele frus, de damid dacor sünd, ava se mutt alle "shuult" warden. I'm a writer e comedian, e quite a few collegues ask themself how long it will take till they lose their jobs. Peutetre dans quelques ans tout la monde va etre "protegee", mais la humeur, el arte, la juissance appartiendront au passee. Bienvenido al Feliz Mundo Nuevo, a el Edad Media con hi-tech. Eu fico triste com isso, e na verdee eu me sinto menos libre oj em dei que durante o regime militar no Brasil.

I kenne witze über argentinier, brasilianer, neger, indigenen, portugisen, iren, deutshe, swizer, italiener, juden, araber, japaner, üba gaga pöble (psycotiker), politiker, doctoren, advocate, blondas, kinder, tire. Wenn du a beten tid ha, bitte segg mi welke witze mid welke grupos ferboten sünd, so hab ik nich de hele werk mid de posten e denn ward ik censeert. Is there a list or is it your personale judgement? Et peutetre tu peux mexplica pourquoi il ay des diferences, sil ay des diferences.


permite - el imperativo no tiene forma propia: si el orden o pedido es pra la persona(s) con quien se está hablando, es simplemente la forma basic, sin pronome: Permite mi sei lu. Da mi la buk. Se a ordem ou pedido é direccionada a uma terceira pessoa, se usa o verbo 'shal': God shal sauva la Roya (Deus salve a Rainha).

ta - (das, dis hir) i glaube das is das erste word das exclusive de den slavishen sprachen commt, wo es maist 'ta' o 'to' haisst. 'Ta' haisst irgendwas ganz in der nee (hir), für 'tam' (da) o 'labah' (dort) nimmt man 'dat'.

some pople - naturali ward dat nich as in inglish prononceert, /sVm pi:p@l/, sunnern as /some pople/.

contee - the participle is formee with 'ee', but wen the nexte lettra is a vocal, it is the basic form + T: since the basic form in ta cas is 'conta', the participle befor a vocal is 'contat': La contat aples was rotee (les pommes comptés etaient pourris). Mas ese participio no es utilizado en las conjugaciones, mismo el preterito mas que perfecto solo tiene la forma basic: La miau had manja la bisteica pre la wawau arivou (o gato tinha comido o bife antes do cachorro chegar).

homosexualitee - el abstraccion af el adjectivo es como regla '-itee'. Homosexualitee, megalitee (grösze), grositee (dicke).

ha-v - eu ja mostrei que o verbo 'bi-n' é irregular. Das zwait irregulare verb is 'ha-v'. De grundform is 'hav', aver wenn keen vocal danah caamt, ward es zu 'ha'. The past is with 'had' (e not 'havou').

drinking - can tu veux dire que tu bois, tu dis 'mi drink'. Cuando quieres decir que estás bebiendo AORA, dices 'mi drinke nau' - ay no una forma como 'estoy bebiendo' o 'i'm drinking'. Normalmente o infinitivo com verbos auxiliares é a forma basic, ou seja, pra dizer 'Eu quero ver o que ele ta fazendo', tu diz 'Mi vole vi wat lo fa (nau)', 'vi' sendo a forma basic. Aber es gibt ein fall wo man ein extra-endung braucht: ik kann nich seggen, 'drink a bir' wenn ik "en bir drinken" seggen will, wil 'drink a bir' is imperativ. You'r telling somebody to drink a beer. Et la, pour decrire une situacion, tu dis 'Drinking a bir'. O: 'Drinking vin is bon pro la salud' (Tomar vinho é bom pra saúd).

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

English:


Dormouse, allow me to disagree with you. I'm not a racist. Never a black friend of mine called me a racist (and i've told this joke to quite a few of them - they had a good laugh), there are more than 200 reviews about my books and i've never seen a critic saying that i'm racist (i hope the term 'black' is OK - some people have told me i shouldnt use it either, since the color is associated with mourning and death). Maybe you censored the joke because i'm racist towards whites, since the stupid guy in the joke is a white guy (he had to be white to make the joke work), but then wouldnt you have to censor the joke about the finns too, since the joke says they're drunkyards? Or the joke about brazilians, that says that thare is no justice in Brazil? What about jokes about jews, are they antisemite even if they are told by jews?

From the 50s to the 70s a lot of prohibitive laws were abolished: women were allowed to work, make a passport or a driving license without the authorization of their husbands, blacks in the USA were allowed to sit beside a white person, homossexuality was decriminalized, etc. Also in my country Brazil, but then we had a military dictatorship, and censorship in the media was horrible. They not only censored stuff that was really against the government, they also censored stuff that COULD have been against the government, like the aerial picture of a freeway intersection that reminded the censors of a female genital part, and since it was the government that built the freeway, they thaught it could be a criticism against the government. But normal life was quite OK for everyone who didnt throw bombs or organized strikes. I didnt throw bombs or organized strikes, i was still an adolescent, but i was a victim of the system too: i was travelling through South America, came back following the Amazon and the military at the border thought my conlang was a terrorist or spy code, so i stayed in jail for 2 months.

But soon Brazil became a democracy again. The world had become freer, and i thaut it was the beginning of a glorious era of freedom. Unfortunately it wasnt the beginning, it was its peak. They stopped eliminating restrictive laws and started banning as much as they could: smoking, drinking - 2 years ago i lost the right to drive a car and to cycle, because they caught me drunk on the bicycle. For 13 months, but then i made acquaintance with people who lost this right forever, because they couldnt afford to pay the tests anymore which were made to judge if they are or not mentally ill, ie alcoholics (the companies who make the test get much more money the more they let you fail). And the political correctness keeps expanding all the time, words are forbidden (as in the baptist family and church of my childhood), you cant say eskimo anymore, altho calling them inuits is wrong, since most eskimoes are NOT inuits. You're not supposed (at least in Germany) to say gipsy (zigeuner) anymore, because this could offend them, even if quite a few gipsy associations and institutions are absolutely against calling them "sinti and roma", and the gipsies i know keep calling themselves gipsxies. So political correctness also protects lots of people who werent asking at all to be "protected" and renamed. The word "american" has a quite negative sense nowadays in the world, so should we ban the word "american" too and call them texans or mexicans?

To protect all those people, we're distancing ourselves from the truth, since not all gipsies are sinti or roma, not all eskimos are inuits, and not all blacks are negroes, and blacks arent persons of color - white is the mix of all colors, black the lack of color, so we should rather say "persons without color" when we refer to them. Burkas are forbidden in France and Belgium - in the name of freedom! If you red the book 1984, by George Orwell, this will sound familiar. Even eating and drinking (also water) is being bannd from public transport in quite a few countries or cities, in some US states people who used deodorant or perfume arent allowed into state institutions or restaurants, to "protect" the people who feel disturbed. I made a film and i had to take a scene off - it had to do with brazilians and jews, and the joke was actually about the incompetence of brazilians, but jokes where jews appear arent allowed (at least in Germany, because of their history - not by any official law, but by popular pressure, even if most people dont agree with it). My lady is the director of a big museum in Germany, and she almost lost her job because of an exhibition ware a portrait of the painter Tiepolo, from the 18th century, showed a knight with his sword neer the hed of a man with a darker taint - it could be understood as if he was declaring that person to a knight, but also as if he was going to cut his head off. And of course in the explanations for the paintures everything has to be gendered, you cant say "the painters of the 18th century", you have to say "the painters and painteresses of the 18th century" (in german, of course). Even if almost 80% of the population (a majority among the women too) dont agree with this mania (which makes german much longer than english, since in german everything has a female form). And quite a few museums had to take nudes from their walls - in the Middle Ages it was "because of God", and now it is "because they show women as objects". I dont know many women who agree with that, but they all have to be "protected". I'm a writer and comedian, and quite a few colleagues ask themselves how long it will take until they lose their job. Maybe everybody will be "protected" in a few years, but humor, art, enjoyment might belong to the past. Welcome to the Brave New World, welcome to the Hi Tech Middle Ages. It makes me sad, and actually i feel much less free now than during the military regime in Brazil.

I know jokes about argentinians, brazilians, blacks, american indians, portuguese, irish, germans, the swiss, italians, jews, arabs, japanese, about crazy people (psychotics), politicians, doctors, lawyers, blondes, children, animals. If you have a spare time, please tell me which ones are banned, so i dont have to do all the work of posting them and they being censored. Is there a list or is it your personal judgement? And maybe you can tell me why they're not like the others, in case there are differences.

xxxxxxx

permite - the imperative doesnt have an own form: if the order or request is to the person you're talking to, you just take the basic form, without pronoun: Permite mi sei lu (Let mi tell you). Da mi la buk (give me the book). If the order or request is directed to a third person, you use the verb 'shal': God shal sauva la Roya (God save the Queen).

ta - (das, dis hir) i guess this is the first word that comes exclusively from the slavic languages, where it is usually 'ta' or 'to', depending on the genderw. 'Ta' is this (here), 'dat' is for 'that' ('tam' (there) or 'labah' (over there)(further away).

some pople - of course this isnt pronounced as in english, /sVm pi:p@l/, but /some pople/.

contee - the participle is formed with 'ee', but when the next letter is a vowel, it is the basic form + T: since the basic form in this case is 'conta', the participle before a vowel is 'contat': La contat aples was rotee (the counted apples were rotten). But this participle isnt used in conjugations, even the past perfect just uses the basic form: La miau had manja la bisteica pre la wawau arivou (ther cat had eaten the steak before the dog arrived).

homosexualitee - the abstraction of the adjectiv is as a rule '-itee'. Homosexualitee, megalitee (bigness), grositee (thickness).

ha-v - i showed already that the verb 'bi-n' is irregular. The second irregular verb is 'ha-v'. The basic form is 'hav' (in dictionaries ha-v), but wen no vowel follows, it becomes 'ha'. The past is with 'had' (and not 'havou').

drinking - when you want to say that you're drinking, you say 'mi drink'. When you want to make it clear that you're drinking NOW, you say "Mi drinke nau" - there is no form like 'i'm drinking'. Normally the infinitive with auxiliary verbs is the basic form, ie to say "I want to see what he's doing', you say "'Mi vole vi wat lo fa (nau)', 'vi-d' being the basic form. But there is a case where we need an extra ending: i cant say, 'drink a bir' when i want to say "Drinking a beer", because 'drink a bir' is imperative. You're telling somebody to drink a beer. And there, to say "Drinking a beer" or "To drink a beer", you say 'Drinking a bir'. Or: 'Drinking vin is bon pro la salud' (Drinking wine is good for health).
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Salmoneus »

Zé do Rock wrote: 15 Aug 2020 19:48
I know jokes about argentinians, brazilians, blacks, american indians, portuguese, irish, germans, the swiss, italians, jews, arabs, japanese, about crazy people (psychotics), politicians, doctors, lawyers, blondes, children, animals. If you have a spare time, please tell me which ones are banned, so i dont have to do all the work of posting them and they being censored.
In general, it's best to avoid ANY overt, offensive racism.

If you find it impossible NOT to be racist, it is generally, as you are already perfectly aware, more offensive to be racist toward races that have historically suffered the effects of racism most greatly (like Jewish people and black people), and less offensive to be racist toward those who have not historically suffered in the same way (such as the English). But if possible, it's best not to be an arsehole to anybody, both on general principles and because you may not understand the full context (eg a joke about Catholics might seem harmless in some places, but may be highly offensive for someone who, say, lives in Glasgow).

And, as you also know, not all "jokes" are created equal. In your case, your "joke" had no humour other than derogatory and objectifying racism.
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Dormouse559 »

Zé do Rock wrote: 15 Aug 2020 19:48Dormouse, allow me to disagree with you. I'm not a racist.
I didn't say you are racist. I said your joke was.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up government censorship. The CBB isn't a sovereign country; it's a private online forum owned by Aszev, and your ability to post here is a privilege contingent on your willingness to follow the rules.

I won't address hypotheticals about which ethnicities or marginalized groups it's okay to tell jokes about. I will quote House Rules 2 and 3 for your reference:
2. No trolling/flamebait

As a general rule, do not post things that you know are going to offend, annoy or otherwise provoke other people. Sometimes there may be a good reason that justifies posting something provocative, but don't go out of your way to be inflammatory. Explain your position and be prepared to defend it.

Note that this includes controversial or extraordinary claims and opinions. Repeatedly posting these without providing evidence and proper argumentation to back them up will be considered trolling.



3. Tread lightly around sensitive subjects

Expanding on from the above, please keep in mind that some topics can very quickly result in hostility and flamewars if users treat them the wrong way. This includes topics revolving around religion, politics, and identity.

As a board dealing with both conlanging and conworlding, we certainly cannot ban these topics outright, since they play a pivotal role in developing a more fleshed out culture, but please try to stick to what's actually being said in such threads and stick to the facts, avoiding value judgements. Especially if you happen to hold negative views on someone else's religion (or lack of religion), ethnicity, sexuality, gender identity, neurotype, mental health or physical health situation, or anything of this sort, then try to keep those opinions to yourself (whether talking to or about an individual or a group). Large portions of the internet have, over the years, shown that these sorts of discussions, as mentioned previously, tend to lead to heated arguments and flamewars rather than healthy debate and conversation.

Again, while we tolerate constructive criticism and factual debate, what we not tolerate for very long are ad hominem attacks, bullying of individuals or groups, either on-board or off-board, from any side.
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock »

Dormouse, Salmoneus,

It seems you didnt read the joke, you just registered, like an algorhythm, that it is a joke and there is the word 'black man' in it, so you "used the scissors' as a pavlov reflex.

Just read the joke: who is the victim of the joke, the stupid guy? It is a white man. So if you delete the post because you dont want jokes against whites, i can only accept that, because then i would be breaking the house rules. Even if not even one in one million white persons would feel offended about it. But if you say that it is a joke about blacks, i can only say that you didnt understand the joke. You will keep the joke blocked, but i wont agree with it.

Sure it is not state censorship. Thats not the problem nowadays, nowadays the attacks against freedom come usually from the population, not from the government. It wasnt the state who ruined the career of Kevin Spacey, it came from the me-too movement. He was judged by the state, but the state has fixed rules, and the guy who had sued him even didnt show up, so he was acquitted. But his career and his name are distroyed. Nothing like that happened here, but i dont agree that a joke about a white man is discriminating against black men.

There is a joke about an indian, a jew and an argentinian (and brazilians have many jokes about them). The victim of the joke is an argentinian, but i'll refrain from telling it, because there is a jew involved. Which is necessary because the joke needs peeple who have problems with pork. I could replace him thru arabs, but i dont know if arabs are allowed in jokes by the aveneca rules - are they?
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Salmoneus »

I'm not sure why "don't be a racist arsehole" is such a difficult rule. It's not about "can I be an arsehole to X? what about Y? Z?" - I mean, sure, there are some groups it's more offensive to be an arsehole to than others, but if you're really struggling to remember why derogatory jokes about The Jews are bad, why not just not tell racist jokes at all? After all, nobody actually finds them funny, they're just dogwhistles to attract other racists. Nobody ever needs to tell racist jokes, so you're not exactly being persecuted.

In the case you hypothesise: yes, you're right, racist jokes about Jews ARE problematic. But it's also pretty offensive for a Brazilian to tell a racist joke about an Argentine. And it's generally best to avoid making racist jokes about Indians, too, since they're the butt of so many racist jokes already. [a general guide: if people make lots of racist jokes about a group, that's usually a good sign that making racist jokes about that group is even more offensive that otherwise. Imagine there's a sort of quota. Jews, Indians, black people, the Irish, etc, have already had way too many racist jokes told about them. Luxemburgers, on the other hand, can probably withstand one or two more racist jokes, as they're probably not yet at their 'quota' (except, I imagine, in the immediate vicinity of Luxemburg). Although of course, as I say, if in any doubt, just don't tell a racist joke at all.

No, the Argentine is not the only "victim" of a racist joke about Jews and Argentines: whenever you use demeaning stereotypes to objectify a racial minority, you're likely to offend - and are in some small way actively harming - that minority. Even if your punchline is that a different racial minority is even more inferior.

In the case of your black man joke, you're objectifying black men by reducing them to (and creepily fantasising about) the supposed shape of their genitalia, which is their only characteristic in your "joke" (plus either stupidity or malice, it's not clear which, but neither is flattering and both draw from racist stereotypes about black people). The fact that the punchline concerns the white person trying to be black is irrelevant, since the joke itself is based on demeaning black people. Similarly, for example, if you tell a "joke" about a white man trying to be Chinese, as an excuse to do 'slitty eyes' and a Fu Manchu accent, you're still being racist against the Chinese, even if your punchline is theoretically about the white man imitating them. In the same way, when you tell a "joke" about a stupid white man trying to emulate the sexual characteristics of a black man, your punchline might be about the white man failing (and being stupid for wanting to be like a black man), but the "joke" only exists as an excuse to demeaningly objectify black men. The "joke" is only even possible because of a pre-existing racist objectification of black people in society. Hence there are no racist jokes focused on cultural depictions of the genitals of Luxemburgers, because (to my knowledge) nobody's cultural assumptions about Luxembergers revolves around their penises. [are Luxemburger penises statistically larger, smaller, or differently shaped from French penises? I don't know. Quite possibly, as they're historically a fairly isolated population that probably does have a number of genetic founder effects. But nobody thinks of Luxemburgers in that way, so no stereotype exists to form the basis of a racist joke.
[and of course, for the record, as the African population is more genetically diverse than the rest of the world's population put together, the characteristics of black penises are in reality no doubt equally diverse; although even if that weren't true, the joke would still be racist]




And of course the subject matter is also an issue; making intimate remarks about another person's genitalia is, at best, an extremely sensitive area (no pun intended), best treated with caution and respect. Here's a good rule of thumb: if you overheard me publically telling an analogous joke about your sister's, daughter's or mother's vulva, would you be happy with me? If not, don't tell that joke about black people either.
[That's also an illustration of the 'it's not just offensive to the punchline' point. Imagine someone telling a joke about, say, Cara Delavigne seeing your daughter's vulva, and asking her how she could make her own labia as pendulous and strongly fish-smelling as your daughter's, or asking how she could make her vagina as loose as your daughter's vagina and how she could learn to accomodate objects as large as your daughter could fit in her vagina. The punchline would then be about Ms Delavigne being silly. Now, are you really, honestly saying that you can't imagine your daughter (/sister, /mother, etc), or yourself, feeling embarrassed or demeaned by someone telling that joke in public, just because she wasn't officially the punchline? No, you're not. You know fine well that that joke would be offensive to more people than just Ms Delavigne. So don't tell that joke about black people either.]



EDIT: but anyway, I've had my go at reasoning and will leave it up to someone else at this point.
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by elemtilas »

Zé do Rock wrote: 16 Aug 2020 14:38 Dormouse, Salmoneus,

It seems you didnt read the joke, you just registered, like an algorhythm, that it is a joke and there is the word 'black man' in it, so you "used the scissors' as a pavlov reflex.

Just read the joke: who is the victim of the joke, the stupid guy? It is a white man. So if you delete the post because you dont want jokes against whites, i can only accept that, because then i would be breaking the house rules. Even if not even one in one million white persons would feel offended about it. But if you say that it is a joke about blacks, i can only say that you didnt understand the joke. You will keep the joke blocked, but i wont agree with it.
I see it differently. I understand that the white guy is the butt of the joke. That's neither here nor there.

Your joke, plain and simple, was dehumanising. Whether you are reducing people to the mere accident of skin colour or the mere accident of sexual organs, you deperson & objectify them. That's not cool. That your black friends found it funny only demonstrates that they a) have low brow senses of humour and b) don't mind dehumanising jokes.

Making the white guy the butt of the joke doesn't make the joke better, doesn't make the joke wholesome. Whether it's an ethnic joke or taking the Lord's name in vain or anything that reduces the human person to the status of object, the best joke is the one left unsaid.
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Dormouse559 »

Zé do Rock wrote: 16 Aug 2020 14:38 Dormouse, Salmoneus, […]
I can think of little more to say than what I have already told you. You posted a joke based on a dehumanizing racial stereotype. That is a clear violation of House Rule 3, and I acted accordingly. As I stated previously, I won't comment on hypotheticals about which ethnicities or marginalized groups you're allowed to make jokes about. Consider the response your removed post received, as well as the excerpt of the House Rules I quoted for you, and apply the two in future when judging whether a post will be considered appropriate. If you believe the rules have been incorrectly applied or should be altered, feel free to contact Aszev.

To everyone involved/commenting, if you'd like to discuss this issue further, I'd ask you to continue it over PM.
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock »

Salmoneus,

for me and for most people i know, to say that indians dont eat cows is not derogatory, as it is not derogatory to say that jews dont eat pork: i even worked in a restaurant in Israel and i've never seen them cooking pork. But the joke is derogatory towards the argentinians, you say. Thats what jokes live from, there must be something negative in it. Somebody must be stupid, crazy, or have bad luk: a joke like "Johnny won in the lottery and lived happy forever" is not derogatory towards people who ar called Johnny, but it is not really a joke, is it?

You recommend the system with the quota: if thare hav been too many jokes about a certain group, it is racist. I'v herd 4 jokes about argentinians, which i wouldnt considder as a high number of jokes, but it seems you've herd many mor jokes about argentinians than me, so you considder it racist, and since you'r a moderator (if you ar), you can deleet my message. You say thare hav been too many jokes about the indians, i dont know a single one (the one with the argentinian is not about indians, i dont think it is funny or derogatory if i say that indians dont eet cows), so if i knew and told a joke about indians, my post would be deleeted, although i was just applying your rule. Since i'm not a national of an english speeking country, i'v herd a single joke about the irish, but its not me who will decide wether the joke is racist or not, its the moderator. I do know quite a few mor jokes about jews, but quite a few of them wer told by jews, and it seems i wont get an answer wether jews can tell jokes about jews, and you couldnt eeven controle if the person is really a jew. I know a lot of jokes about brazilians, told by thare nabors or by the brazilians themselvs, but maybe one moderator herd too many jokes about brazilians and then the joke is considderd racist (eeven if brazilians arnt a race, as little as americans ar a race) - i cant imagine wy argentinians would hav to be "protected" and brazilians not. My joke about the finns came thru, but maybe i was just lucky that no moderator is a scandinavian who herd a lot of jokes about the finns. Or about the norwegians - the swedish like to make jokes about norwegians, like the brits make jokes about the irish. And if by chance the moderator was a person who thinks that eeven the word 'blak' shouldnt be used becaus of its negativ conotations (mourning, deth), it would be deleeted too.

To be on the safe side, you recomend that "i dont make racist jokes at all". I'v been in 150 countries (including 40 african cuntries and neerly all eest asian cuntries including North Korea, and i workd in quite a few of them), for 2 or 3 yeers in scool my best compannion was blak (btw he calld himself 'Nega', wich meens blak woman, or something like N*ess - guess i cant use the word heer), i had frends of eest asian descent, mostly japanese, but korean or chinese descendents kept complaning that they wer calld japanese wen they wer not japanese: "Just becaus i hav slit eyes it doesnt meen i'm japanese!" For me, and for most peeple i know, slit eyes isnt a fisical defect that shouldnt be mentioned, it is just one of menny feetures a person can hav. But it seems that in an american academic environment, wich seems to be the front of the PC movement in the world, and ware menny professors hav lost thare jobs becaus of a wrong word, it mite be an unforgivable sin. For me, who grew in a very religius environment, all this sounds equaly religius, just without enny god.

If i told this kind of jokes to blak peeple or enny peeple of other race or nationality and they reacted neggativly, i would stop it by my self, but i cant remember that that happend - i had hundreds of shows in Germany, Brazil and some other european cuntries, and sometimes - rather rarely - some peeple complaned, but they wer never the "victims of the jokes", they wer peeple who wanted to protect "the victims of the jokes". Stil, the fact that thare ar peeple wanting to protect other peeple doesnt meen necessarily that those peeple need protection. Thare ar enuf peeple wanting to protect me (and menny uthers), altho i never askd for protection, and i know enuf blak peeple who dont want that protection either, and i know enuf wimmen who dont want that protection. Maybe Elemtidas thinks that Rubens or Rembrandt wer reducing wimmen to thare genitalia and to an object wen they painted naked wimmen, as the PC world is seeing it nowadays, but i considder it art, and i find a pitty that museums ar starting to show or by artists works by the new moral insted of by its artistic merits. And i considder jokes with sex and genital parts as humor, not as racism. But i see that we hav difrent opinnions in this area.

Once i was laying naked on my belly at the Isar, the rivver that goes thru Munich, 2 girls came along, sat down 2 or 3 meters from me, and kept talking - in portuguese - about the sizes of peenis, the thikness of ties or the brest hare of german and brazilian men with whom they had slept. In a certan moment one of them sed that "the bums of brazilian men ar better than the bums of german men". I thought, now it is my turn, so i turned my head to them and asked, in portuguese: "Oh, do you really think that? Thank you..." They were shocked, of course, to learn that somebody was understanding them all the time, and left a minute later, and i had my fun. If they sed that german men had better bums, i would probably protest, also just for fun. But i didnt think they wer "dehumanizing" german or brazilian men. They certainly had opinions about psychological traits of german and brazilian men too, but they just happened to be talking about sex and physical traits.

So no nationalities, and i gess no jokes about women, gays and uthers. I gess no professions either, rite? Or ar minorities with good salarys excepted from the protection rules? Lawyers, doctors, politicians could get offended, and there are quite a few jokes about them, so the quota should be filled too - or is that different? If i can remember jokes about rabbits or ducks, i'll use them - unless they need to be protected against jokes too. And if i cant think of jokes with rabbits and ducks, i must stop the series, we'l see.

Dormouse, sinse there were 3 comments now, i posted the anser here. If there are replies tu it, i'l reply with PMs, but it wud help if the one comenting it sent it as PM too. I gess it dusnt make sense tu complain tu Aszev - 3 comments against, nobody in mi favor (and if, they prefer tu stay away, tu be safe), i gess i'm quite a minority here.
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by sangi39 »

Dormouse559 has advised that everyone move on from the matter, or to keep it to PMs. I suggest you do so, and, at least here, in this thread, drop the matter.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Zé do Rock
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock »

OK.
Zé do Rock
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock »

EUROPIX FAZE I

(inglish further down)
(a teemlig lang message, disse mal - quite a long message, this time...)

Again: wordes dat ar alredy europix ar in bold, similare wordes in italics.

Yo queria contar un chiste sobre una nacionalidee sobre la cual se fa la chistes in Brasil, como la chistes sobre polacos in los EUA, iris in Inglaterra, belgis in France, frisios orientales o austricos in Alemania. Pero exist o risco de que a broma sexa considerad una broma racist (aínda que todas as victimas sexan brancas, polo menos a xente tipica deses países). Entao eu va contar piadas sobre os lokiburgis, porquee tantos europis fazem piadas sobre os lokiburgis, e lis ni reclamam, porque cuando o pessoal vi lis, lis haha, e o haha é bom pras relacioes umanas.


Lokiburg is a mini land midden in Europa. All eer nabis make gern witzen över jüm, se sünd angeevlig teemlig stupid. The lokiburgis spik a romanic lingua.

5 francis arrivent a la frontera lokibourgise dans un Audi Quattro. La funccionario in la frontera dice lis:
"Οχι όχι! 5 eπiβάτeς σe eνα Audi Quattro, αυτό απαgορεύετi!"
"Mas mai Senior, a marca do auto no ha nenhuma relaciao com o número de passagiris permitee!"
"Nee nee! 5 passagire in einem Audi Quattro, das get unmöglich!"
"Canat wi mid dain shefi spiken, bitte?"
"No."
"Pourquoi, par Dieu???"
"El ist ocupee con la 2 pasageris in la Fiat Uno."

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fa - het werkwoord is 'fa-z', wat betekent dat het 'faz' is voor a klinker en 'fa' in andre gefallen. A cuestiao era: shalat europix 2 verben han für 'tun' e 'machen'? For the spikis de germanic linguas e som otris, the diference is clar: 'to do' signifie agir, 'to make' signifie produir alge chose. Mas in aleman por ejemplo lis mezclan sta verbos la todo tempo, e la mayorie de las linguas europeas no fan esa diferenciacion, al minos is lo qui google cuenta mi... Mar mi sin ghlac ‘fa-z’, a oibríonn don dá cheann, i dteangacha grá.

iris - o nome do país é Ireland, qui é como os iris chamam o su país.

A) Geografische namen werden wie in der ursprungssprache scribee, e das sistema shalat für die ganze welt gültig sein: the locale nam is the internacionale nam. Alors la pays ist Ireland. Puedes pronunce lo como los iris lo fan, como lo farías in tai lingua, o segundo las reglas af europix, ki seria /i-re-'land/. Denn að hvergi í heiminum þarftu að bera fram nafn lands þíns á rangan hátt. Mas ai alguns casos speciais: lander, die weda das römishe noh das kirillische alfabet benutzen, werden so genannt wie die jetzigen o früheren coloniale mächte si nennen. If there was no coloniale pawer in the country, the englishe nam. Avec quelques correcciones... por ejemplo in general el inglishe scribe K pra la sonido de /k/ in linguas con otre alfabetos, mas as veces con C, in europix o in la "denominación internacional" is sempre con K. Anche per la parole chi hanno la K in ell alfabeto cirillico, quindi Moskva, e non Moscow. E Y é substituído bai I cuando ele no tem uma funcciao special: Libia, Siria (aba clar, Iemen get nit).

The decicion with the coloniale pawas mite attracte some criticism. Evidemment je ne suis pas pour la colonialisme, sa ist una decicion tecnic: pra nombres in otre alfabetos no ai una transcripción unificada pra la muchos sones qui no existen in europeas linguas, mas la nombres dados (frecuentemente distorciones de los nombres originales) son normali la nombres con la cuales la ciudidenis de sta países lo llaman cuando istan in la strangero, y lis ha pocas variaciones.

U imenima koji završavaju na samoglasnik+s ili -en, ovi se dijelovi ne smatraju dijelom sufiksa, što znači da stanovnici Sejchela (Seychelles) nisu "seychellesis", oni su "seychellis". Os abitis de Beiren (Baviera) sao no beirenis, lis sao beiris.

E denn han ainige lander plus als ain oficiale sprach, also auch plus als ainen oficialen namen - welkeen shull een nemen? For exemple Belgium, wich is Belgie in flamish e Belgique in franch. Dans ce cas oni prends la racine plus internacional, qui ist BELG-, pas la racine BELGIQ, alors BELGIE. Pra evitar una revolución inter la valones, podemos consolar lis considerando la país un país latino, no germanico, así qui el adjectivo no será 'belgishe', mas 'belgiano'. Un denn is de adjectiv in francish nich 'belgiquan', et is 'belge'...

Et locutus ist verbum hoc ut ni flamish (cum sono /x/) ut ni gallice (cum sono /Z/), haec locutus ist cum /g/. Na caso de Suiss, a gente faz uma "media" du alemao suisso Schwiiz, francês Suisse e italiano Svizzera, o qui da 'Swits'. Im fall de Luxemburg, wo man francish, deutsh e letzebuergish spricht, ershaint der stamm LUX zwaimal, LETZ nur ainmal, also LUX. E moste countries spell BURG in the end, not BOURG, dus Luxemburg.

La nomes dans la linguas qui je ha reformee (portugais, allman, inglishe, fransais et espagnol) sont ecrits in reformee form, alors Lundon, Pari, Deutshland, Riu di Janeru. A propósito, sempre utilizo la reforma mas suave qui yo ha, entonces en la mayoree de las linguas cambia no mucho. Diacriticos can ser utilizados o no, dependendo del teclado e de la volunt: česki o ceski, türki o turki.

B) Iedzīvotāji: a raiz da palavra ganha um sufixo, sendo ou feminino (-a), neutro mas vivo (-i), masculino (-o) ou neutro no vivo (-u). Also a frau af ALGERie is ein ALGER-a, a person af Andorra is ein andorri, a mann af Argentina ein argentino. Normali the root word doesnt inclui the parte dat signifis a country or region, dus the root word for Danmark is not danmark, it is dan, so the citizeni de Danmark is a dani, not a danmarki. Un omme d'Allmagne (Deutshland) ist un deutsho, pas un deutshlando, etc.

Si la nombre af un abiti seria la memo qui la país, anyadimos una vocal e inserimos una N: moteris de Botswana nėra botswana, ji yra botswanana. Um omi de Congo no é um congo, é um congono.

Bai manchen fellen mit C e K im end af a stammword müssen wir den consonanten wexeln um den glaichen laud zu behalten: inabitis de France can bi francis, but the men de France cannot bi francos, becaus dat woul bi pronouncee with the K-soun. Alors fransas et fransos. Los abitis de Dominica son no dominicis, son dominikis - mir mussen de tein de K behalen.

Pra nomes duble, a gente pega o mais longo, exceto cuando esse é um accidente geografico. Sierra is lenger als Leone, aba das bedeutet gebirge, also is der pöble aus dem land die leonis. And again we hav a speciale cas, Costa Rica: sa ne devrait pas bi costis (costa = côte), sa devrait bi rikis, mas rikis sont la richis, alors il faut prendre costarikis... Clar, da sünd milionen namen, un automatish ok colisionen, ava disse mid de 'rikis' cunn een wirklig dörenanner bringen. E cuando se puede no cojer la nombres separadamente, porque causaría ambiguidee, decimos la nombre entero: Új-Zeeland esetében nem mondhatunk „zeeis” vagy „zeelandis” szót, mert ez Hollandia Zeelandjára vonatkozna. Zeeland is in Holland, New Zeeland is op de andre sid vun de planet. E tambem no se pode pegar newis, porque isso valeria pra todos as cidis qui tem um 'new' na nom, inclusive newyorkis, qui seriam newis tambem. So muss man den ganzen namen nemen: newzeeis, newyorkis, etc. Aver OK, wenn du wils, cans du ok 'kiwi' seggen...

In names dat ar formee bai plus dan 2 names, we take the abreviaciones: tatis sont les abitis de Trinidad and Tobago (TAT), bihis sont la gens de Bosna i Hercegovina (BIH). Así ai no discriminación: Нормалi, луgето gi нарекуваат dржавiанi оd Bосна i Херцеgовiна bоснацi, во коi спаgаат i xерцеgовiнi, но тiе може dа се чувствуваат diскрiмiнiранi, bidеiќi не се чувствуваат како bоснацi, iлi мноgу оd нiв не се чувствуваат. A gente poderia dizer bosnis e hercegovinis, mas isso é bem longo pruma nacionalidee, e normalment o pessoal é preguissoso demais pra isso. Mit bihis das problem is gelöst. Most abreviaciones for countries ar spicable, but sometimes they'r not, as the abreviacion de Papu Niu Gini, PNG. Dans ce cas oni ecrit PNGis et dit /pi-no-gis/, qui sont la nomes de ces lettras in europix.

La puntos cardinales son norde, sude, weste, este, y los perden su E si después no veni consonant, lo qui is la caso in la mega mayoree de las palabras. Huma separee fl-ismijiet, iżda flimkien fid-demonimi: Sude Korea, sudekoris. Este Timor, estetimoris.

O nome 'republica' pode bi na nom oficial, mas no na "normale nom": Cesko, Dominicana, Centrafricaine.

Speciale felle:

Austria - the originale nam is Österreich, but ta nam is super dificile for foreners to pronounce, and even meni austrins cant sei dat Ö, they sei /e:/. Bes menciona la son CH af el allman. E lis istan bene habituados al internacionale nombre Austria.

Congo/Congoz - Dat var Fransk Congo e Belgishe Congo, etter uavhengighet ble Belgishe Congo Zaire. Depois da guerra lis mudaram o nome de volta pra Congo, e assim nós ha 2 Congos. Das war a super stupid idee. We can only diferenciate them bai their complete names, Republic of Congo e Democratic Republic of Congo, but wen it comes to the demonim, both ar congolese. Et j'oubli tout la temps quel ist la "democratique", lorsque la deux ne sont pas speciali democratiques. In el area, lis diferencian llamando uno Congo-Brazzaville (ex-Congo Francés) y el otro Congo-Kinshasa (ex-Congo Belga), o sea, bai sus capitales. Ale jak nazwać mieszkańców? Congobrazzavillis e congokinshasis? Das is müsam... So to get som ordre in ta issue, the Congo ki was alweis Congo remains Congo, e the Congo dat was Zaire gets a Z in the end, Congoz. Alors il ai congis et congozis.

Laos - la regla dice qui consideramos no la S final e las vocales anteriores como parte de la raiz del nombre, mas in el caso de Laos solo restaría la L, y eso is super poco... Cetațeanul de Laos ar trebui să fie „li”, car ist ja cuvantul pentru el/ea, ca să nu mai vorbim că nimeni nu s-ar gândi de Laos dacă o person ist un „li”. Ou seja, temos qui pegar a palavra intera como raiz, o qui signifi qui o cidadao de Laos é um laosi.

Holland - ja, i waiss, der nam is Nederland. Holland is just a region in the land. Mas je ha souvent audi des hollandis parlant de son pays comme Holland, meme si lis ne sont pas de la region de Holland. E in otre linguas frecuentemente solo ai 'Holanda', e la nacionalidee e la lingua is llamada holandish, memo si algunas linguas ha la palabra alternativa 'neerlandais', e in ese caso la país is no llamado Neerland, li is llamado con la traducción 'Pays Bas', Países Bajos - mas ai no un adjectivo 'paysbasian'). Кроме тоgо, iм gоразdо прiaтнiе сказать «hоллiс», чем «неdерiс», что dолжно bi dемонiмом. E como podemos distinguir o país da regiao? I slage vor, man lasse bai der region a L weg: Holand. Dat is denn a lang O.

Naijiria - If we hav Niger e Nigeria, both nacionalis will bi nigeris. Lis seraient prononcee diferemment, mas oni ne saurait pas comme prononcer la mot bes savoir la context. Entonces cambiamos Nigeria a un ortografie europix, Naijiria, e nosotros ha nigeris e naijiris.

Romenia - Is e name na dùthcha ann in Ròmanach România. Mas ja qui ni todos tem um circumflexo na teclado, o país frecuentement é scrito Romania. Und a mann de disem land wer a romano, was mit the adjectiv für Roma collidert. Denn is et better, de nam mid E to scriven, dat caamt in fele spraken vör.

Soudafrica - since the word for soud is Sude, it shalad bi Sud Africa. Mas si Africa du Nord ist la norde du continent, pas un pays, il faut qu'oni ha un mot pour la sude du continent, et sa ist Sud Africa. Sta is una región, qui inclui países como Namibia, Botswana, etc. Pra, vendi ka nevojë për një emër tjetër. Aí eu misturei o inglishe nom south e o afrikaans nome suid, o qui resultou im Soud. E da 'soud' nix bedeutet, ai kainen grund, es separat zu scriben. Soudafrica.

A long explanacion, no dout. Je pourrait simpli far una list, mas je cre quil fait de sense explicar pourquoi je ha decidé de choisir un certan mot et pas un autre. E con esas reglas tu no ha qui quedar buscando in los diccionarios como os ciudadenis af un país, región o ciudi son llamados. E často to aj tak nenájdete. Pra gente qui no viage muito, isso tudo no é um mega problem, mas eu visitei 150 países, e eu had muitos problemas cuando eu scriví sobre alguns de lis.

haha - ai a gewisse cuantitee de lautmalerishe wörder in europix, wi 'haha' für lachen, 'yuhuh' für sich amüsiren, 'miau' für catze, 'tictak' für eine ur, etc.


-------


ENGLISH


I wanted to tell a joke about a nationality wich is the victim of jokes made in Brazil, like the polish ar in the USA, the iris in England, the belgians in France and the estefrisians or austrians in Germany. But thare is always a risk that the joke is considderd racist (eeven if all the mentiond nationalities ar wite, at leest the tipical inhabbitants). So i'll only tell jokes about the lokiburgis, becaus so many europis make jokes about the lokiburgis. And the lokiburgis dont complane, becaus wen peeple see them, they laf, and lafing is good for human relationsships.

Lokiburg is a small country someware in Europe, and its inhabbitants speek a romanic language.

5 frenchmen come in an Audi Quatro to the lokiburgian border. The border oficial is shokd and ses:
"Wat? No, no! 5 passengers in an Audi Quattro, thats forbidden!"
"But Sir, the brand of the car doesnt hav anything to do with the allowd number of passengers!"
"No, no! 5 passengers in an Audi Quattro, thats impossible!"
"Can we speek to your boss, plees?"
"No."
"Wy, in Gods name?"
"He's bisy with the two guys in the Fiat Uno."

-------

fa - the verb is 'fa-z', wich meens that it is 'faz' befor a vowel and 'fa' in other cases. The question was: should europix hav 2 verbs, one for 'to do' and one for 'to make'? For the speekers of germanic languages and some others, the difrence is cleer: doing meens acting, making meens producing something. But in german for example they keep mixing thees verbs, and the majority of european languages dont hav the diferentiation, at leest its wat google tells me... So i took 'fa-z', wich works for both meenings, in romanic languages.

iris - the country is calld Ireland, wich is how the iris call thare country.

A) Geografic names ar spelld as in the original language, and the sistem should be valid for the whole world: the local name is the international name. So it is Ireland. You can pronounce this as the iris pronounce it, you can pronounce it as in your language, or acording to the europix rules, this would giv /i-re-'land/. So noware in the world you hav to pronounce the name of your country the wrong way. Thare ar some special cases, tho: countries that dont use the roman or the cirillic alphabet ar named acording to how the (ex)-colonial powers calld them. If thare was no colonial power, the english name. With some corrections... for instance english spells mostly K for the sound /k/ in words from languages with other scripts, but sometimes they write it with C, in europix or "international naming" it is always with K. Also for words that hav K in the cirillic alfabet, thus Moskva and not Moscow. And Y ware I would be OK is replaced by I: Libia, Siria (but not Iemen, of course, since the Y has a function heer).

The decision with the colonial powers mite attract some criticism. Of course i'm not for colonialism, this is a tecnical decision: for names in other alphabets thare isnt usually a unified transcription for the many sounds that dont exist in european languages, but the names given (offen distorted versions of the original names) ar usually the names with wich the nationals of those countries call them wen they'r abroad, and they hav few variations.

In names ending in vowel+s or -en, thees parts arnt considderd part of the suffixes, wich meens that the inhabbitants of the Seychelles arnt seychellesis, they're seychellis, from the root word SEYCHELL. The inhabbitants of Beiren (Bavaria) arnt beirenis, they'r beiris.

And then some countries hav mor than one oficial language, wich offen meen difrent names - wich one should we take? For example Belgium, wich is Belgie in flamish and Belgique in franch. In this case we take the mor international name, and thats with the root BELG-, not the root BELGIQ-, thus BELGIE. To avoid a revolution among the walloons, we can consolate them considring it a romanic country, wich meens that the adjectiv wont be 'belgishe' but 'belgiano'. And that G is pronounced neither as in flamish (with a KH-sound) nor as in franch (with a ZH-sound), it it pronounced with /g/. In the case of Switzerland, we make an "avrage" of german Schwiiz, franch Suisse and italian Svizzera, wich givs Swits. In the case of Luxembourg, ware they speek franch, german and letzebuergish, the root LUX appeers twice, LETZ only once, thus LUX. And most countries spell BURG in the end, not BOURG, thus Luxemburg.

The names in languages i reformd (portuguese, german, inglish, franch and espanish) ar spelld in reformd form, thus Lundon, Pari, Deutshland, Riu di Janeru. By the way, i take always the softest reform i hav (in case i hav mor than one), so english for instance doesnt change much. Diacritics can be used or not, depending on the keebord and on the will: česki or ceski, türki or turki.

B) The inhabbitants: the root word of the name gets a suffix, either for feminin (-a), neutral but alive (-i), masculin (-o) or neutral not alive (-u). So a woman from ALGER-ie is an ALGER-a, a person from Andorra is an andorri, a man from Argentina an argentino. Usually the root word doesnt include the part that meens a country or reegion, thus the root word for Danmark is not danmark-, it is dan-, thus the national from Danmark isnt a danmarki, he or she is a dani. A man from Deutshland is a deutsho, etc.

If the name of a national would be the same as the country, we ad the vowel and insert an N in between: a woman from Botswana is not a botswana, she's a botswanana. A man from Congo is not a congo, he's a congono.

For some cases with C and K at the end of a root word we hav to change a consonant to keep the same sound: the inhabbitants of France can be francis, but the men of France cant be francos, becaus that would be pronounced with the K-sound. Thus fransas and fransos. The inhabbitants of Dominica arnt dominicis, they'r dominikis - we hav to keep the K-sound.

For double names, we take the longer one, unless this is a geografical mark. Sierra is longer than Leone, but Sierra meens a group of mountans, so the nationals from that country ar leonis. And again we hav a special case, Costa Rica: it shouldnt be costis, it should be rikis, but rikis ar the rich peeple, so we end up taking costarikis... Sure thare ar millions of place names, and thare will be collisions all the time, but that mite be a quite confusing one. And wen we cant take one of the names sepratly, becaus it would caus ambiguity, we hav to say the whole name: in New Zeeland we cant say zeeis or zeelandis, becaus that would apply for Zeeland in Holland. And we cant take newis either, becaus that would apply for all cities that hav a 'new' in it, including newyorkis wich would be newis too. So we hav to take the whole name: newzeeis, newyorkis, etc. But OK, if you want, you can say 'kiwi' too...

In names that ar formd by mor than 2 names, we take the abreviations: tatis ar the inhabbitants from Trinidad and Tobago (TAT), bihis ar the nationals from Bosna i Hercegovina (BIH). So thare is no discrimination: normally peeple call the nationals from Bosna i Hercegovina bosnians, wich includes hercegovinis, but hercegovinis mite feel discriminated, since they dont feel as bosnians, or many of them dont. We could say bosnians and hercegovinis, but thats quite long for a nationality, and usually peeple wouldnt be botherd. With bihis the problem is solvd. Most abreviations of countries ar speekable, but sometimes they'r not, as the abreviation of Papu Niu Gini, PNG. In this case you write PNGis and you say /pi-no-gis/, wich ar the names of the letters in europix.

The cardinal points ar norde, sude, weste, este, and they lose thare last E if no consonant comes afterwards, as the grate majority of words. They ar seprated in the names, but together in the demonims: Sude Korea, sudekoris. Este Timor, estetimoris.

The name Republic can be in the oficial name, but not in the "normal name": Cesko, Dominicana, Centrafricaine.

Special cases:

Austria - the original name is Österreich, but this name is very dificult for foreners, and eeven many austrians cant say that Ö, they say /e:/. Not to mention the dificult german CH-sound. And austrians ar very used to the international name Austria.

Congo/Congoz - thare was Belgian Congo and Franch Congo, after independence Belgian Congo became Zaire. After the war they changed it bak to Congo, so we hav 2 Congos. This was a really stupid decision. We can only diferentiate them by thare compleet names, Republic of Congo and Democratic Republic of Congo, but wen it comes to the demonim, both ar congolese. And i keep forgetting wich one is the democratic one, since both of them arnt especially democratic. In the area, they tell the difrence calling them Congo-Brazzaville (ex-Franch Congo) and Congo-Kinshasa (ex-Belgian Congo), ie by their capitals. But how should we call the nationals? Congobrazzavillis and congokinshasis? Thats quite tiresome... So to get some order in this issue, the Congo wich was always Congo remanes Congo, and the Congo that was Zaire gets a Z in the end, Congoz, from the name Zaire. So thare ar congis and congozis.

Laos - the rule ses that we shouldnt considder final S and the preceeding vowels as part of the root word, but Laos would leev us with the root word L, and thats a bit too little. The national of that country would hav to be a 'li', wich is alredy the word for he/she, not to mention that nobody would think of Laos if a person ses that li is a 'li'. So we hav to take the whole word as root word, wich meens that the national of Laos is a laosi.

Holland - yes, we know, the name is Nederland. Holland is just a reegion in the country. But then i'v herd quite offen dutch peeple referring to thare country as Holland, eeven if they'r not from the region Holland. And in other languages its offen just Holland, and the nationality and the language ar calld hollandish, eeven if in some countries thare is the alternativ word like franch 'neerlandais' (but the country isnt called Neerland, then, nor Nederland, it is Pays Bas, the translation of Low Lands - still you dont hav an adjectiv like 'paysbasian'). Besides, its much nicer to say hollis to them than nederis, wich would hav to be the demonym. And how can we tell the country from the reegion? I suggest that we take one L off, for the reegion: Holand. Thats a long O, then. Holand is a reegion in Holland.

Naijiria - If we hav Niger and Nigeria, both nationals will be nigeris. They would be pronounced difrently, if the speekers tries to follow the local pronunciation, but you wouldnt know how to reed 'nigeris' without knowing the context. So we change Nigeria to a europix spelling, Naijiria, then we hav nigeris and naijiris.

Romenia - The name of the country in romenian is România. But since not evrybody has a circumflex on his keebord, it will be offen spelld Romania. And the man of this country would be a romano, wich collides with the adjectiv for Rome, romano. Then it is better to spell it with E, as it is done in quite a few countries. The inhabbitants of Romenia ar romenis.

Soudafrica - since the word for south is Sude, it should be Sud Africa. But if Nord Africa is the nord of the continent, and not a country, thare must be a name for the soud of the continent, and thats Sud Africa. So thats a reegion, wich includes Namibia, Botswana, etc. So the country needs another name. Thare i mixd englishe south and afrikaans suid, wich gave Soud. And since 'soud' doesnt meen anything in the language, thare is no reeson to spell it sepratly.

A long explanation, no dout. I could just make a list, but i do think that it makes sense to explane wy i decided to do it this or that way. And with thees rules you wouldnt hav to look up in dictionaries to see how the nationals of a country, reegion or city ar calld. And offen you dont find it. For peeple who dont travel a lot, this isnt a grate problem, but i traveld to 150 countries, and i had a lot of problems wen i wrote about some of them.

haha - thare ar quite a few onomatopoeic words, like 'haha' for to laf, 'yuhuh' for to hav fun, 'miau' for cat, 'tictak' for a clok.
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock »

EUROPIX FASE J

One morning, a (male) mosquito wakei e feels so sexuali aroused, he could explod. IL FAUT que quelque chose marche aujourdhui, il dit, alors il demarre bes meme havoir pris du petit-dejeuner. Zzzzzzmmmm, he flait öva de region, e söökt sik en opper. De repent él vid un elefanti, de detrás. S polno paro prodre slona naprej. O elefant ist parado im baixo af um coqueiro, im cima do coqueiro ai um macaco, qui vi o spetaculo e comessa bater uma punheta, o coqueiro balansa pra la e pra ca, um coco cai na cabess do elefant. Der stönt:
"AAAAAAAHHHHHHH"
E the mosquito shouts with plasur:
"Il faut que tu soufre, putaine!"

***
wakei - sufix '-ei' - La sufijo -ei is utilizee pra designar un cambio, na sentido de 'tornarse'. Tha ‘Pale’ a ciallachadh bàn, agus tha palei a ciallachadh a bhith bàn, a fàs bàn. 'Mini-m' signifi pequeno, 'minimei' signific encolher. 'Wake' bedeutet 'wach', 'wakei' bedeutet 'wach werden, aufwachen'.

Ta sufix can bi also usee to start an accion: Mi ha sabei ela, i started to know her, i made aquaintance with her. Mi ha sitei na benk - 'sit' signifi 'etre assis', et "commencer etre assis", sassoir, ist 'sitei'. La memo pra standei (levantarse), spozei (tornarse un sposi), etc. Siellä on myös ylimääräinen sana "sta-n", jos -ei n käyttö bi liian monimutkaista: Mi stanou a boton fabriki, ei "Mi ha botonfabrikiei".

La sufixo pra tornar alguma coisa im outre coisa é -ize: Mi wakize lo, eu acordo ele. Mi minimize dat, i reduzir das.

Es gibt a menge indo-europaishe wörd, die auch la slavis versteen cannen. But tadei we had 2 specificli slavic wordes: 'bes' for 'without' e 'sta-n' for 'to become'. Tu peut utilisa ces mots in al ou presque ale slaves linguas.


INGLISH

One morning, a (male) mosquito wakes up and feels so sexually aroused, he could explode. I have to find someone to fuck today, he ses, and starts without even having brekfast. Zzzzzzzmmmmmmmm, he flies over the area, and looks for a victim. Suddenly he sees an elefant, from behind. He penetrates the animal full steem ahed. The elefant is standing under a coconut tree, on the tree thare is a monkey, who is watching the show and starts wanking, the tree wobbles bak and forth, a coconut falls on the elefants hed. The elefant groans:
"AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!"
The mosquito shouts with plesure:
"Yeah, take it all, bitch!"

***

wakei - suffix '-ei' - The suffix -ei is used to designate a change, in the sense of 'to become'. 'Pale' is the word for 'pale', thus 'palei' is the word for 'to pale, to become pale'. 'Mini-m' meens small, 'minimei' meens to shrink. 'Wake' meens 'awake', 'wakei' meens 'to become awake, to wake up'.

This suffix can be also used to start an action: Mi ha sabei ela, i started to know her, i made aquaintance with her. Mi ha sitei na benk - 'sit' meens 'to sit', and 'to begin to sit, to sit down' is 'sitei'. The same for standei (to stand up), spozei (to become a spouse, to get married, to marry), etc. But thare is also an extra word for it, 'sta-n', for the cases ware this would be too complicated: Mi stanou a boton fabriki (i became a button maker), and not "Mi ha botonfabrikiei".

The suffix to transform something in something else is -ize: Mi wakize lo, i wake him up. Mi minimize dat, i reduce that. Mi simpliz el ortografie, i simplify the spelling.

Thare ar quite a few indo-europan words that ar also understood by the slavs. But today we had 2 specificly slavic words: 'bes' for 'without' and 'sta-n' for 'to become'. You can use thees words in all or almost all slavic languages.
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock »

Una joven pari ist enamored e quere casarse. De lämnar i a bil till kyrkan, ma de har en olycka e båda dai. Lis sobem ao ciéu, e enquanto istao na fila pra entrar, lis pensam: "Wenn wir shon nich auf Erden hairaten connten, cannen wir fillaicht hir im Himmel hairaten?" Se caamt na rig, Petrus checkt eer leevlop e sei, "OK, ji ha nich die beste notas, aver dat gat - ji dröft rin." Den they ask him if it woul bi possible to marry in Heven. St. Pierre ist in dout, il dit: "Esperen un rato." Bir saat, 2 saat, 5 saat, 2 gün, 2 hafta beklerler... enquanto esperam, lis tem algumas discucioes, e comessam cogitar ki talvez ni is uma idee tao boa casar na ciéu, afinal cuando se ist na Terra, fica-se casado até ki a morte os separa, mas aki ai no mort... Nach 3 wiken commt Petrus wider:
"Ja, ji cant hir hiraden."
So they ask:
"Et esk oni peut aussi si divorcer, si les choses ne marchent pas comm oni voulait...?"
"Ke??? Esto is un impertinencia, una chulería, no puedo crerlo!"
E він не прiпiнiae лаiaтi. Lis dizem:
"Pardon, Herr Petrus! Aver wi verstat nich, wai ist du so upreegt?"
"You saw ja how long it took mi to find a prest hir in Heven - how long do you dink i need to find a lawyer???!!!

***
Je ne sais pas keske je peux explik ici...


ENGLISH

A young couple is in love and wants to marry. They go with the car to the church, but they hav an accident and both di. They come to Heaven and hav to wate in a long line. And they think: "If we wern't able to marry on Erth, maybe we can marry heer in Heaven?" After a wile it is thare turn and St. Peter looks at thare files: "You dont get the best marks, but you'r OK, you can come in." Then they ask him if it would be possible to marry in Heaven. St. Peter is in dout, he ses: "Wate a moment." One our goes by, 2 ours, 5 ours, 2 days, 2 weeks... wile they wate, they hav some discussions, and start wondering if it is really such a good idea to marry in Heaven, after all, on Erth you can at leest seprate wen you di, but in Heaven you dont di... After 3 weeks St. Peter comes bak:
"Yeah, you can marry heer."
So they ask:
"And is it also possible to divorce, if after all it doesnt work so fine...?"
"Wat??? Thats an impertinence, a cheekiness, i just cant beleev it!"
And he doesnt stop scolding. They say:
"Sorry, St. Peter! But we dont understand, wy ar you so angry?"
"You saw alredy how long it took me to find a preest heer in Heaven - how long do you think i need to find a lawyer???!!!
***
I cant think of any explanations heer...
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock »

(inglish further down)

EUROPIX FASE L

Un tipo se compra un nuevo BMW, de la super clas, e quiere mostrar lo a sus amigis na club. Mae'n frwd iawn. Le chega, staciona el auto, abre la port, um camiao pass e leva la porta com le. La typ wird totali gaga, er ruft la poliz. La polize kaamt, he sei:
"Such an asshol! Il ha ditruit mai neuvau BMW, putain!!!"
El policía dice, "Ist ben, mas bi no tan materialist, vi ki la camión se llevó también tai brazo, eso is super peor!"
La bokher lukt aoyf zey felndik orem e zei,
"I
can nisht gloybn es, aza a tokhes! Mai Rolex!!!"

***

clas - super wenig lettras representa plus als ain laud, C is einer of them. La normale prononceer de la lettra C is /k/, so 'clas' e 'cut' sünd /klas/ (or /klaz/) un /kut/ uutsproken. aver dat is /ts/ vör E or I: centro /tsentro/, cigarete /tsigarete/. And dat is /s/ befor an i + an otre vocal: accion /aksi'on/ or /aksi'oN/ ("aksiong"), societee /sosie'te/.

Pour ecrire la son /k/, ecris K avant E et I, et a la fin des mots: laike (like), kid (child, kid), bank. Scrib X for la combinacion /ks/: taxi, nixu (nothing). In andre gefalle spele C: cloze, particulare.

Pra scriver la som /ts/, scrive C antes de E e I: centro, cigarete. In andren fällen scribe /ts/ (aba lis sind rar).

La lettra S representa la lud /s/, aver in el end de wörde disse S cann ok as /z/ uutsproken warden: is, as, clas: /is/ or /iz/, /as/ or /az/, /clas/ or /claz/.

All this corresponde to the inglishe reglas, exept ki CE e CI arnt pronouncee with /s/ but with /ts/.

Ces reglas ne sont pas la plus simples, mas non plus la plus complikees. Yo sa no si ellas tendrían el apoyo de la majorie. Petèt yo ha sipò nan majoritee nan West Europa, ma cetli pa nan Est Ewòp... mas im outre continentes, lis normali falam uma lingua af Europa Ocidental, e lis sao bem mais numerosos ki in Europa...

***

INGLISH

A guy buys a brand new BMW de luxe and wants to show it to the frends in the club. He's very enthusiastic about it. He arrives, parks the car, a truk comes by and takes the door with it. The guy gets mad, calls the poleece. The poleece comes, the guy ses:
"Such an asshole!!! He destroyd my brand new BMW, dam!!!"
"OK, but dont be so materialistic, i meen, the truk also took your arm away, this is much worse!"
The guy looks at his missing arm, thare is nothing left, after the elbow.
"I cant beleev it, wat an asshole! My Rolex!!!"

***

clas - very few letters represent mor than one sound, C is one of them. The default pronunciation of the letter C is /k/, thus 'clas' and 'cut' ar pronounced /klas/ (or /klaz/) and /kut/. but it is /ts/ befor E or I: centro /tsentro/, cigarete /tsigarete/. And it is /s/ befor a i + another vowel: accion /aksi'on/ or /aksi'oN/ ("aksiong"), societee /sosie'te/.

To spel the sound /k/, spel it K befor E and I, and at the end of words: laike (like), kid (child, kid), bank. Spel X for the combination /ks/: taxi, nixu (nothing). In other cases spel C: cloze, particulare.

To spel the sound /ts/, spel C befor E and I: centro, cigarete. In other cases spel /ts/ (but they ar rare).

The letter S represents the sound /s/, but at the end of words this S can also be pronounced as /z/: is, as, clas: /is/ or /iz/, /as/ or /az/, /clas/ or /claz/.

All this corresponds to the english rules, except that CE and CI arnt pronounced with /s/ but with /ts/.

Thees rules arnt the simplest, but not the most complicated ones. I dont know if they would hav the support of the majority. Maybe they would hav the support of the majority in West Europe, but certanly not in Eest Europe... but in other continents, they usually speek a western european language, and they ar many mor than in Europe...
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock »

Só pra alemao falantes: Christian Morgenstern war a fan de volapük, e zu disem anlass mi scrib einen article für a Morgenstern sonderedition na Lyrik Zeitung & Poetry News üba volapük, esperanto und europix. There is also a video, so you can read e listen to la text at la same time. https://lyrikzeitung.com/2021/02/15/mor ... -volastern

Only for german speekers: the famous poet Christian Morgenstern was a fan of volapük, and becaus of that i wrote an article for a Morgenstern special edition in the Lyrik Zeitung & Poetry News about volapük, esperanto and europix. Thare is also a viddeo, so you can reed and listen to the text at the same time. https://lyrikzeitung.com/2021/02/15/mor ... -volastern
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