Kojikeng / Kodikeng

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Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

I've got a lot of homophones over several thousand years. haha.
Spoiler:
ONE-ENDING ADJECTIVES
ʔaiʃa: cold, cool (water)
ʔaiʃa -> ʔa:ʃa -> ãʃo - > ãso -> a̰so

ʔaonxe: afraid, scared
ʔaonxe -> ʔo:nxe -> õ:ŋe -> õ:ŋ -> o̰ŋ

brainde: angry, mad
brainde -> ra:nde -> ra:ne -> lan -> jan

ʔizdu: left (opposite of right)
ʔizdu -> ʔizuðu -> ĩ:zizi -> ĩ:zeze -> ḭsese

maedu: right (opposite of left)
maedu > ma:ðu -> ma:ði -> ma:zi -> masi

ʔonxo: slow
ʔonxo -> õŋo -> o̰ŋo

sˤura: beautiful, pretty
sˤura -> sˤula -> sḭlo -> sḭjo

sxiki: straight
sxiki -> sixiki -> sexeke -> seheke

sraxi: young
sraxi -> ʃaxi -> sohe

tsreizi: shallow
tsreizi ->tsʰe:zi ->tsʰe:ze ->tsʰese

ʃanza: wet
ʃanza -> ʃa:nza -> ʃa:n -> san

ʃisa: soft; easy
ʃisa -> ʃeso -> seso

SEVEN-ENDING ADJECTIVES
ʔaudu: wide
ʔaudu -> ʔo:ðu -> õ:ðu -> õ:zu -> õ:zi -> õsi -> o̰si

beindu: lightweight
beindu -> be:ndu -> be:nu -> be:ni -> pen

bobu: round
bobu -> boβu -> bo:wu -> bo:wi -> powi

dandu: hard (opposite of soft); hard, difficult

deudu: heavy
deudu -> de:ðu -> de:zu -> de:si -> tesi

dzraiʔu: old (opposite of young)
dzraiʔu -> ra:ʔu -> ra:ʔũ -> ra:kĩ -> rakḛ

meusu: narrow
meusu -> me:su -> me:si -> mesi

piʔu: small, little
piʔu -> peʔi -> pekĩ -> pekḛ

xoeʔru: bad
xoeʔru -> xo:ʔru -> xo:tu -> xo:ti -> hoti

xsˤidu: smooth
xsˤidu -> sˤiðu -> sˤi:zu -> sĩ:zi -> sḭsi

raebu: dry
raebu -> ra:βu -> rawi

sˤandu: cold, cool (atmospheric)
sˤandu -> sa̰n

spazu: thin
spazu -> sapa:zu -> saposi

CONSONANT ADJECTIVES
gir: long; tall (physical length or height)
gir -> ke

grin: new
grin -> ʀin -> jĩ -> jẽ -> jḛ

ksˤiz: happy
ksˤiz -> sˤi -> sḛ

ksoup: ugly
ksoup -> so:p -> so:ɸ -> so:h -> so̤

reux: thick
reux -> re:h -> le -> je

xob: short (physical length of height)

xuk: low
xuk -> xux -> xoh -> ho̤

sxoux: rough
sxoux -> xo:x -> xo:h -> ho

tˤair: hot, warm (water)
tˤair -> tˤa:h -> to̰ -> tʰo̰

tʃob: big, large
tʃob -> tʃoɸ -> tʃoh -> tʰo̤

ziʃ: fast
zif -> zih -> ze -> se


DIPHTHONG ADJECTIVES (I’ll figure something out about sad and good being homophones)
ʃeu: sad
ʃeu -> ʃe: -> se

kʃoi: deep
kʃoi -> ʃo: -> so

preu: old
preu -> pe: -> pʰe

pʃei: good
pʃei -> ʃe: -> ʃe -> se

xai: high
xai -> xa: -> ha

zˤoi: hot, warm (atmospheric)
zˤoi -> zˤo: -> zo̰ -> so̰

COLOR WORDS: Nouns (all ethereal gender)
saog: white
so:k -> so:x -> so:h -> so̤

kam: black
kam -> kã -> kõ -> kʰo̰

braun: red
braun -> ro:n -> rõ: -> lõ: -> jõ -> jo̰

tˤis: yellow
tˤis -> tˤi -> tẽ -> tʰḛ

zeimb: green
zeimb -> ze:m -> zẽ: -> sḛ

neux: blue
neux -> ne:h -> ne:

musˤur: brown
musˤur -> misˤih -> mesḛ

steis: grey
steis -> se:te:s -> se:teh -> se:te: -> sete

COLOR WORDS: Adjectives (all seven-ending)

saogu: white
so:gu -> so:ɣi -> so:je -> so̤je

kamu: black
kamu -> ka:mi -> kʰam

braunu: red
braunu -> ro:ni -> lo:n -> jon

tˤisu: yellow
tˤisu -> tˤesi -> tʰḛsi

zeimbu: green
zeimbu -> ze:mi -> sem

neuxu: blue
neuxu -> ne:xu -> ne:hi -> nehi

musˤuru: brown
musˤuru -> misˤili -> misḛji ->

steisu: grey
steisu -> se:te:su -> se:te:si -> setesi

Khemehekis
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

Interesting. The color words look different as nouns and as adjectives now.

Sad and good become the same? Hee hee. One or the other will probably shift meaning. Or be outright replaced by a foreign borrowing.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote:
27 Apr 2020 08:04
Interesting. The color words look different as nouns and as adjectives now.

Sad and good become the same? Hee hee. One or the other will probably shift meaning. Or be outright replaced by a foreign borrowing.
Yeah I think you're right. Also quick is a homophone of both say... yeah probably borrowings or semantic shifts into that position. I guess I could also do augmentation (I'm thinking maybe sad becomes "tear sad" or something) though I don't know how often that happens. Maybe an adverbialised noun like "tear" to "teary" to "sad" is simplest.

Khemehekis
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

Nachtuil wrote:
30 Apr 2020 15:03
Yeah I think you're right. Also quick is a homophone of both say... yeah probably borrowings or semantic shifts into that position. I guess I could also do augmentation (I'm thinking maybe sad becomes "tear sad" or something) though I don't know how often that happens. Maybe an adverbialised noun like "tear" to "teary" to "sad" is simplest.
Augmentation usually happens with homonym-heavy, monosyllabic languages like Chinese, drom what I understand.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

I have decided that I'll actually merge the ethereal and female noun classes together. The ethereal singular is a set including and similar "mi" and the female plural is a set including and similar to "mo". Because of the huge importance of the mother camel goddess concepts of femininity and etherealness bleed together. As sound changes start making things a bit close language learners start to just mix them and modify the noun class and prnoun paradigms. The old female noun class which had a bunch of "yo" like forms fades out due to similarity to the yo paradigms of 1st plural and 2nd dual.

As the 1st person dual and 2nd person plural start to both approach /jo/, the 2nd person plural begins to get augmented by /tʰa/ which was reanalyzed as a prefix about half way between the two language stages.

Txabao <taibreu> "everything" -> Old Kojikeng /tʰaje/
/taibreu/ -> ta:re: -> ta:le: -> tʰaje

Txabao <taixa'> "everywhere" -> Old Kojikeng /tʰaso̰/
/taiʃaʔ/ -> ta:ʃaʔ -> ta:ʃõ -> tʰaʃo̰ -> tʰaso̰

Txabao <taizhin>, "everybody" -> Old Kojikeng /tʰa/
/taizˤin/ -> /ta:zˤĩ/ -> /ta:zḛ̃/ -> /tʰasḛ/

It gets attached to the intermediary pronoun resulting in /tʰajo/ as a new plural 2nd person pronoun.

The old 2nd person dual pronoun changes into a general familiar plural and the new 2nd person plural while the new 2nd person plural begins to be used for strangers and formal and polite usage.
The vocative ceased to be used in pronouns (though maintained on nouns) The nominative versions fill the gap for vocative use in the 2nd person.
The human noun case largely merges with the female one but it varies on a word by word basis. The pronouns cease to exist as independent pronouns but derived forms still stick around.

In 1st person land, the old dual becomes and exclusive pronoun and the plural becomes inclusive

This leaves the following:
With nominative/accusative - dative/genitive - instrumental/oblique
1st singular: he - hi - ha̰
1st exclusive: jo - jo - ja̰
1st inclusive: tʰo - tʰo- tʰa̰
2nd singular: pʰe - pʰo - pʰḛ
2nd familiar plural: so - so - sa̰
2nd formal plural: tʰajo - tʰajo - tʰajḛ
3rd male singular: ḛ - ḛko̰ - ḛka̰
3rd male plural: se - seko̰ - seka̰
3rd female singular: mi - min - min
3rd female plural: mo - moka̰ - moko̰
3rd animal singular: o̰ - o̰ke - o̰kḛ
3rd animal plural: po - pokḛ - pokḛ
3rd other singular: so̰ - so̰ - so
3rd other plural: tʰo -tʰo -tʰo

Khemehekis
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

Nachtuil wrote:
26 May 2020 01:53
I have decided that I'll actually merge the ethereal and female noun classes together. The ethereal singular is a set including and similar "mi" and the female plural is a set including and similar to "mo". Because of the huge importance of the mother camel goddess concepts of femininity and etherealness bleed together. As sound changes start making things a bit close language learners start to just mix them and modify the noun class and prnoun paradigms. The old female noun class which had a bunch of "yo" like forms fades out due to similarity to the yo paradigms of 1st plural and 2nd dual.
A bold new move -- and such a great consideration of how culture shapes language! A question: when do the ancestors of Kojikeng speakers stop worshipping Neidu and the other Txabao gods and goddesses? I haven't thought that far into the future.
It gets attached to the intermediary pronoun resulting in /tʰajo/ as a new plural 2nd person pronoun.

The old 2nd person dual pronoun changes into a general familiar plural and the new 2nd person plural while the new 2nd person plural begins to be used for strangers and formal and polite usage.
The vocative ceased to be used in pronouns (though maintained on nouns) The nominative versions fill the gap for vocative use in the 2nd person.
Neat to see a descendant evolve a T-V distinction -- something that isn't present in Txabao!
his leaves the following:
With nominative/accusative - dative/genitive - instrumental/oblique
1st singular: he - hi - ha̰
1st exclusive: jo - jo - ja̰
1st inclusive: tʰo - tʰo- tʰa̰
2nd singular: pʰe - pʰo - pʰḛ
2nd familiar plural: so - so - sa̰
2nd formal plural: tʰajo - tʰajo - tʰajḛ
3rd male singular: ḛ - ḛko̰ - ḛka̰
3rd male plural: se - seko̰ - seka̰
3rd female singular: mi - min - min
3rd female plural: mo - moka̰ - moko̰
3rd animal singular: o̰ - o̰ke - o̰kḛ
3rd animal plural: po - pokḛ - pokḛ
3rd other singular: so̰ - so̰ - so
3rd other plural: tʰo -tʰo -tʰo
I like the way these pronouns are all distinct from one another, yet definitely look as if they're all native to the same language!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote:
26 May 2020 08:26
A bold new move -- and such a great consideration of how culture shapes language! A question: when do the ancestors of Kojikeng speakers stop worshipping Neidu and the other Txabao gods and goddesses? I haven't thought that far into the future.
I actually would like to have them hang onto some form of Neidu worship well into the space age haha. I can't imagine she would change in some ways though. Maybe instead of being a camel though in the classical age she will be more like a sphinx, being half human and half camel. Perhaps wings and winged creatures enter the religion somehow. Perhaps after an adoption of falconry combined with the old ideas of burning the dead so they may travel with the tribe through the air. I'm not sure yet but it is interesting to think about.
Khemehekis wrote:
26 May 2020 08:26
Neat to see a descendant evolve a T-V distinction -- something that isn't present in Txabao!
I wanted to make something with the dual number pronouns and since I created the inclusive/exclusive distinction in the first person, the T-V distinction in second seemed reasonable. haha
Khemehekis wrote:
26 May 2020 08:26
I like the way these pronouns are all distinct from one another, yet definitely look as if they're all native to the same language!
Thanks :)

Khemehekis
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

Nachtuil wrote:
02 Jun 2020 17:26
Khemehekis wrote:
26 May 2020 08:26
A bold new move -- and such a great consideration of how culture shapes language! A question: when do the ancestors of Kojikeng speakers stop worshipping Neidu and the other Txabao gods and goddesses? I haven't thought that far into the future.
I actually would like to have them hang onto some form of Neidu worship well into the space age haha. I can't imagine she would change in some ways though. Maybe instead of being a camel though in the classical age she will be more like a sphinx, being half human and half camel. Perhaps wings and winged creatures enter the religion somehow. Perhaps after an adoption of falconry combined with the old ideas of burning the dead so they may travel with the tribe through the air. I'm not sure yet but it is interesting to think about.
Some good musing here. The gods and goddesses are often therianthropic, so the Txabao often do portray Neidu as a camel/human hybrid goddess. Kind of like the Egyptian deities.
Khemehekis wrote:
26 May 2020 08:26
I like the way these pronouns are all distinct from one another, yet definitely look as if they're all native to the same language!
Thanks :)
You're welcome! [B)]
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote:
03 Jun 2020 13:59
Some good musing here. The gods and goddesses are often therianthropic, so the Txabao often do portray Neidu as a camel/human hybrid goddess. Kind of like the Egyptian deities.
You know, it was bothering me last night that I hadn't actually double checked how you had described them haha. I'm glad it works.

Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote:
03 Jun 2020 13:59
I have a word to pass back haha.

I've just been working through grammatical relationships and prepositions and realized that I need a new word for outside because the one that exists in Txabao becomes a synonym for a genitive pronoun, which I mean... I guess I could deal with but I'd rather not haha.
I was thinking that a new word for out could stem from a word for either riding, or trading or something since people who do such things most definitely not inside and not available right now. "He is riding" becomes "he is outside" becomes "He is outside the city" and thus a new preposition is born I think. Perhaps "shepherding" would work too.
I'd like to get a velar nasal so would like /iŋ V/ or /eŋ V/ where V is not i, so can't be u in Txabao.
So:
[ʔ (i, u) ŋ (g,k) V (S) raʔ] where V = any vowel that isn't u and S = an entirely optional oral or nasal obstruent of any type
So maybe ʔuŋkeraʔ or with the exact original meaning up to you of course.

I've decided to take advantage of the existence of some of the doubled prepositions in the Txabao. I am working around getting an accusative preposition for animate and inanimate direct objects. I imagine by the classical Kojikeng period word order has solidified around an animacy hierarchy so prepositions for those core arguments isn't completely crazy (though I mean.. I don't know an example of it happening off hand). I still need to look at valence changing operations and stuff.


For the construct state I wanted to make I was originally going to use the "ta" clitic/suffix but realised even though the classical form might look like [to], the future form of the language is liable to turn to an [ s ] or [ z ] which would be uncomfortably close to English. It's a little hard to imagine that it would cease to be used entirely so I may try to preserve it somewhere.

I want something like the following:

1. Possessed lower in animacy
Genitive/dative possessor then possessed in relevant case
“Queen’s city”

2. Possessed higher in animacy
dzibraʔ : to belong to
dzib -> re̤ : construct state after possessed nouns of higher animacy than possessor. Possessed noun is in nominative/accusative case. re̤ would be a suffix.
“Queen of the city”

Both these forms demand that the more highly animate noun comes first.

Khemehekis
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

I considered something like 'ingira'.

Then, when I looked at my dictionary, I noticed this entry:

'ingi (I) whistle

Therefore, the word shall be:

'ingira' to call (an animal)

!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote:
24 Jul 2020 01:42
I considered something like 'ingira'.

Then, when I looked at my dictionary, I noticed this entry:

'ingi (I) whistle

Therefore, the word shall be:

'ingira' to call (an animal)
Oh that's so interesting! Whistling at animals. I like that :) I promise I have not abandonded this project.

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