Kojikeng / Kodikeng

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Nachtuil
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Joined: 21 Jul 2016 00:16

Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Updated basically all the words. Hopefully without mistakes this time. I keep catching little errors but I am also getting faster.

“Cloud” singular
Nominative: xsantˤu -> santˤu -> sa:ndˤu -> sa:nḭ -> san
Accusative: xsantˤun -> santˤũ -> sa:ndˤũ -> sa:nḭ̃ -> san
Genitive: xsantˤaʃ -> santˤaʃ -> sa:ndˤah -> sa:no̰ -> san
Dative: xsantˤoʔ -> santˤoʔ -> sa:ndˤaʔ -> sa:no̰ -> san
Vocative: xsantˤeu̯ -> santˤe: -> sa:ndˤe: -> sa:na̰: -> sana̰
Instrumental: xsantˤei -> santˤe: -> sa:ndˤe: -> sa:na̰: -> sana̰
Oblique: xsantˤib -> santˤi:p -> sa:ndˤi:ɸ -> sa:nḭ̤: -> sani̤

“Cloud” plural
Nominative: xsantˤatu -> santˤatu -> sa:ndˤati -> sa:no̰ti -> sano̰ti
Accusative: xsantˤatun -> santˤatũ -> sa:ndˤatĩ -> sa:no̰tĩ -> sano̰tḭ
Genitive: xsantˤataʃ -> santˤataʃ -> sa:ndˤatah -> sa:no̰ti-> sano̰ti
Dative: xsantˤatoʔ -> santˤatoʔ -> sa:ndˤataʔ -> sa:no̰to̰-> sano̰to̰
Vocative: xsantˤateu̯ -> santˤate: -> sa:ndˤate: -> sa:no̰te-> sano̰te
Instrumental: xsantˤatei̯ -> santˤate: -> sa:ndˤate: -> sa:no̰te-> sano̰te
Oblique: xsantˤatib -> santˤati:p -> sa:ndˤati:ɸ -> sa:no̰ti:h -> sano̰ti̤

“Star” Singular
Nominative: kɾeʃ -> kʰeʃ -> kʰeh -> kʰa
Accusative: kɾeʃʔun -> kʰeʃʔun -> kʰehʔũ -> kʰakĩ -> kʰakḭ
Genitive: kɾeʃʔaʃ -> kʰeʃʔaʃ -> kʰehʔah -> kʰehʔõ -> kʰako̰
Dative: kɾeʃʔoʔ -> kʰeʃʔoʔ -> kʰehʔa̰ -> kʰakõ̰ -> kʰako̰
Vocative: kɾeʃʔeu -> kʰeʃʔe: -> kʰehʔẽ: -> kʰakẽ: -> kʰakḛ
Instrumental: kɾeʃʔei̯ -> kʰeʃʔe: -> kʰehʔẽ: -> kʰakẽ: -> kʰakḛ
Oblique: kɾeʃʔib -> kʰeʃʔi:p -> kʰehʔĩ:ɸ -> kʰakĩ:h -> kʰaki̤

“Star” Plural
Nominative: kreʃʔat -> kʰeʃʔat -> kʰehʔãs -> kʰakõh -> kʰako̤
Accusative: kreʃʔatʔun -> kʰeʃʔasʔun -> kʰehʔõhʔũ -> kʰakõkĩ -> kʰako̰kḭ
Genitive: kreʃʔatʔaʃ -> kʰeʃʔasʔah -> kʰehʔõhʔa -> kʰakõkõ -> kʰako̰ko̰
Dative: kreʃʔatʔoʔ -> kʰeʃʔasʔoʔ -> kʰehʔõhtoʔ -> kʰakõko̰ -> kʰako̰ko̰
Vocative: kreʃʔatʔeu -> kreʃʔasʔẽ: -> krehʔahʔẽ: -> krakokẽ: -> krekokḛ
Instrumental: kreʃʔatʔei -> kʰeʃʔasʔẽ: -> kʰehʔahʔẽ: -> kʰakokẽ: -> kʰekokḛ
Oblique: kreʃʔ'atʔib -> kʰeʃʔasʔi:p -> kʰehʔahʔĩ:ɸ -> kʰakokĩ:h -> kʰekoki̤

“Goddess” Singular
Nominative: zˤembai̯ -> zˤemba: -> zˤe:ma: -> zḛ:ma: -> sḛm
Accusative:zˤembai̯nun -> zˤemba:nun -> zˤe:ma:nũ -> zḛ:ma:nũ -> sḛman
Genitive: zˤembai̯naʃ -> sḛman
Dative: zˤembai̯noʔ -> sḛman
Vocative: zˤembai̯nei̯ -> sḛman
Instrumental: zˤembai̯nei̯ -> sḛman
Oblique: zˤembai̯nib -> sḛman

“Goddess” Plural
Nominative: zˤembai̯ʔat -> sḛmako̤
Accusative: zˤembai̯ʔatʔun -> sḛmako̤kḭ
Genitive: zˤembai̯ʔatʔax -> sḛmako̤ko̰
Dative: zˤembai̯ʔatʔoʔ -> sḛmako̤ko̰
Vocative: zˤembai̯ʔatʔeu -> sḛmako̤kḛ
Instrumental: zˤembai̯ʔatʔei -> sḛmako̤kḛ
Oblique: zˤembai̯ʔatʔib -> -> sḛmako̤ki̤

Dual of Creator Gods
Nominative: tˤampʃou̯bi ->tˤamaʃo:βi -> tˤamaʃo:wi ->to̰moʃo:we -> to̰mosowe
Accusative: tˤampʃou̯biʔun -> to̰mosowekḭ
Genitive: thampxoubi'ax ->to̰mosoweko̰
Dative: thampxoubi'o' -> to̰mosoweko̰
Vocative: thampxoubi'eu -> to̰mosowekḛ
Instrumental: thampxoubi'ei -> to̰mosowekḛ
Oblique: thampxoubi'ib -> to̰mosoweke̤

psara: elder Singular:
Nominative: psaɾa -> saɾa -> sa:la -> sa:lo -> sajo
Accusative: psaɾak -> sajo̤
Genitive: psaɾiʃ -> saje
Dative: psaɾaiʃ -> saja
Vocative: psaɾub -> saji̤
Instrumental: psaɾim -> sajḛ
Oblique: psaɾeʔ -> saja̰

psara: elder Plural:
Nominative: psaɾim ->sajḭ
Accusative: psaɾimak -> sajim
Genitive: psaɾimix -> sajim
Dative: psaɾimaiʃ -> sajim
Vocative: psaɾimub -> sajim
Instrumental: psaɾimim -> sajim
Oblique: psaɾimeʔ -> sajim

bratra (spouse)
Nominative: bɾatɾabi ->ratʰa:βi -> ratʰa:wi -> lotʰa:we -> jotʰa:we -> jotʰawe
Accusative: bɾatɾabiʔak ->jotʰaweko̤
Genitive: bɾatɾabiʔix -> jotʰawekḛ
Dative: bɾatɾabiʔaiʃ -> jotʰaweka̰
Vocative: bɾatɾabiʔub -> jotʰaweki̤
Instrumental: bɾatrɾabiʔim -> jotʰawekḭ
Oblique: bratrabiʔeʔ -> jotʰaweka̰

ʔaɾ “juvenile or child”
Singular
Nominative: ʔaɾ -> ã -> a̰
Accusative: ʔaɾʔak -> ãʔãk -> ãkãh -> a̰ka̤
Genitive: ʔaɾʔix -> a̰kḛ
Dative: ʔaɾʔaiʃ -> a̰ka̰
Vocative: ʔaɾʔub -> a̰ki̤
Instrumental: ʔaʔim -> a̰kḛ
Oblique: ʔaɾʔeʔ -> a̰kḛ

Plural
Nominative: ʔaɾʔim -> ãʔim -> ãʔĩ -> a̰kĩ -> a̰kḭ
Accusative: ʔaɾʔimʔak -> a̰kḭma̤
Genitive: ʔaɾʔimʔix -> a̰kḭmḛ
Dative: ʔaɾʔimʔaiʃ -> a̰kḭma̰
Vocative: ʔaɾʔimʔub -> a̰kḭmi̤
Instrumental: ʔaɾʔimʔim -> a̰kḭmḭ
Oblique: ʔaɾʔimʔeʔ -> a̰kḭma̰


mexʔebʃrim (newlywed)
Nominative: mexʔebʃrimbi -> meʔepʃi:mbi -> meʔeɸʃi:mi -> maka̤ʃi:me -> maka̤ʃim ->maka̤sim
Accusative: mexʔebʃrimbiʔak -> maka̤simeko̤
Genitive: mexʔebʃrimbiʔix -> maka̤simekḛ
Dative: mexʔebʃrimbiʔaiʃ -> maka̤simeka̰
Vocative: mexʔebʃrimbiʔub -> maka̤simeki̤
Instrumental: mexʔebʃrimbiʔim -> maka̤simekḭ
Oblique: mexʔebʃrimbiʔeʔ -> maka̤simeka̰


tʃaban: traveler (from tʃabraʔ, to travel)
Singular
Nominative: tʃaban -> tʰawa̰
Accusative: tʃabanʔak -> tʰawana̤
Genitive: tʃabanʔix -> tʰawanḛ
Dative: tʃabanʔaiʃ -> tʰawana̰
Vocative: tʃabanʔub -> tʰawani̤
Instrumental: tʃabanʔim -> tʰawanḭ
Oblique: tʃabanʔeʔ -> tʰawanḛ

Plural
Nominative: tʃabao -> tʰawo
Accusative: tʃabaoʔak -> tʰawoka̤
Genitive: tʃabaoʔix -> tʰawoka̤
Dative: tʃabaoʔaiʃ -> tʰawoka̤
Vocative: tʃabaoʔub -> tʰawoki̤
Instrumental: tʃabaoʔim -> tʰawokḭ
Oblique: tʃabaoʔeʔ -> tʰawokḛ

sˤouban: parent (from sˤoubraʔ, to have [a child])
Nominative: sˤoubabi ->so̰wawe
Accusative: sˤoubabiʔak ->so̰waweko̤
Genitive: sˤoubabiʔix -> so̰wawekḛ
Dative: sˤoubabiʔaiʃ -> so̰waweka̰
Vocative: sˤoubabiʔub -> so̰waweki̤
Instrumental: sˤoubabiʔim -> so̰wawekḭ
Oblique: sˤoubabiʔeʔ -> so̰wawekḛ


ksaʔai: enemy Singular
Nominative: ksaʔai -> soka̰
Accusative: ksaʔaiʔak -> soka̰ko̤
Genitive: ksaʔaiʔix -> soka̰ke̤
Dative: ksaʔaiʔaiʃ -> soka̰ka̰
Vocative: ksaʔaiʔub -> soka̰ki̤
Instrumental: ksaʔaiʔim -> soka̰kḭ
Oblique: ksaʔaiʔeʔ -> soka̰ka̰

Plural
Nominative: ksaʔaiʔim -> soka̰kḭ
Accusative: ksaʔaiʔimʔak -> soka̰kḭmo̤
Genitive: ksaʔaiʔimʔix -> soka̰kḭmo
Dative: ksaʔaiʔimʔaiʃ -> soka̰kḭma
Vocative: ksaʔaiʔimʔub -> soka̰kḭmi̤
Instrumental: ksaʔaiʔimʔim -> soka̰kḭmḭ
Oblique: ksaʔaiʔimʔeʔ -> soka̰kḭma̰

Dual (here used in the sense of "mutual enemies")
Nominative: ksaʔaibi -> sokwe
Accusative: ksaʔaibiʔak -> sokweko̤
Genitive: ksaʔaibiʔix -> sokwekḛ
Dative: ksaʔaibiʔaiʃ -> sokweka̰
Vocative: ksaʔaibiʔub -> sokweki̤
Instrumental: ksaʔaibiʔim -> sokwekḭ
Oblique: ksaʔaibiʔeʔ -> sokweka̰

Khemehekis
mayan
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Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

Oh, that's so cool! You've obviously put a lot of work into derivation and sound changes. I wonder if the word for "newlywed" will survive after all those years -- just something fun to muse about.

And by all means, feel free to have the instrumental and vocative merged.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
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Posts: 579
Joined: 21 Jul 2016 00:16

Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote:
16 Oct 2019 04:28
Oh, that's so cool! You've obviously put a lot of work into derivation and sound changes.
I'm glad you like it and thanks! Yeah I have.
Khemehekis wrote:
16 Oct 2019 04:28
I wonder if the word for "newlywed" will survive after all those years -- just something fun to muse about.
I think if it doesn't fall out of fashion and use it may drift a bit. Maybe coming to mean lovers or people in a new relationship or maybe negatively as in members in an affair then conspirators.

Nachtuil
greek
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Posts: 579
Joined: 21 Jul 2016 00:16

Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

ksapu: man

Singular
Nominative: ksapu -> sopi
Accusative: ksapis -> sope
Genitive: ksapao -> sopo
Dative: ksapaeq -> sopa
Vocative: ksapan -> sopa̰
Instrumental: ksapen -> sopḛ
Oblique: ksapar -> sopa

Plural
Nominative: ksapas -> sopo
Accusative: ksapasʔis -> sopokḛ
Genitive: ksapasʔao -> sopoko̰
Dative: ksapasʔaeq -> sopoka̰
Vocative: ksapasʔan -> sopoka̰
Instrumental: ksapasʔen -> sopokḛ
Oblique: ksapasʔar -> sopoka̰

Dual of male nouns ending with a single, unaccented vowel

ʃrapshu (male cousin -- you'd use the dual for "These two men are cousins")

Nominative: ʃrapsˤubi -> ʃapsˤuβi -> ʃaɸsˤuβi -> ʃo̤sḭwe -> so̤sḭwe
Accusative: ʃrapsˤubiʔis -> so̤sḭwḛ
Genitive: ʃrapsˤubiʔao ->so̤sḭwo̰
Dative: ʃrapsˤubiʔaex ->so̤sḭwa̰
Vocative: ʃrapsˤubiʔan ->so̤sḭwa̰
Instrumental: ʃrapsˤubiʔen ->so̤sḭwḛ
Oblique: ʃrapsˤubiʔar ->so̤sḭwa̰

Male nouns ending with a consonant

greg: boy, young man
(This one got hit pretty hard by the sound change stick)
Singular
Nominative: greg -> ʀek -> jex -> jah -> ja̤
Accusative: gregʔis -> ja̤kḛ
Genitive: gregʔao -> ja̤ko̰
Dative: gregʔaex -> ja̤ka̰
Vocative: gregʔan -> ja̤ka̰
Instrumental: gregʔen -> ja̤kḛ
Oblique: gregʔar -> ja̤ka̰

Plural
Nominative: gregʔas -> ja̤kḛ
Accusative: gregʔasʔis -> ja̤ko̰kḛ
Genitive: gregʔasʔao ->ja̤ko̰ko̰
Dative: gregʔasʔaex -> ja̤ko̰ka̰
Vocative: gregʔasʔan -> ja̤ko̰ka̰
Instrumental: gregʔasʔen -> ja̤ko̰kḛ
Oblique: gregʔasʔar -> ja̤ko̰ka̰

Dual of male nouns ending with a consonant

xʃad (brother -- you'd use the dual for "These two men are brothers")

Nominative: xʃadbi -> ʃatbi -> ʃasbi ->ʃohbe -> ʃo̤pe -> so̤pe
Accusative: xʃadbiʔis -> so̤pekḛ
Genitive: xʃadbiʔao -> so̤peko̰
Dative: xʃadbiʔaex -> so̤peka̰
Vocative: xʃadbiʔan -> so̤peka̰
Instrumental: xʃadbiʔen -> so̤pekḛ
Oblique: xʃadbiʔar -> so̤peka̰


Male nouns ending with a vowel diphthong
skorao: little boy

Singular
Nominative: skorao -> soko:lo: -> sokojo -> sokjo
Accusative: skoraoʔis -> sokjokḛ
Genitive: skoraoʔao -> sokjokḛ
Dative: skoraoʔaex -> sokjoka̰
Vocative: skoraoʔan -> sokjoka̰
Instrumental: skoraoʔen -> sokjokḛ
Oblique: skoraoʔar -> sokjoka̰

Plural
Nominative: skoraoʔas -> sokjoko̰
Accusative: skoraoʔasʔis -> sokjoka̰kḛ
Genitive: skoraoʔasʔao -> sokjoka̰ko̰
Dative: skoraoʔasʔaex -> sokjoka̰ko̰
Vocative: skoraoʔasʔan -> sokjoka̰ka̰
Instrumental: skoraoʔasʔen -> sokjoka̰kḛ
Oblique: skoraoʔasʔar -> sokjoka̰ka̰


I have the first minimal pair that I'm aware of! (Edit: Hold on, I have a ton of minimal pairs via endings haha)

Accusative: ksapis -> sapi -> sope
Nominative: xʃadbi -> ʃatbi -> ʃasbi ->ʃohbe -> ʃo̤pe -> so̤pe
In Txabao the first means man and the second brother, which is amusing: "Hey man, what's up?" "Not much bro."

So far it looks like adpositions and or other strategies will be playing a large role to distinguish different . I'm still probably going to do some morphological leveling as I plan for the Kojikeng to intermingle with some other linguistic groups causing a lot of adult speakers to have to learn the language badly. I find this process fun though and the results will inform my decisions regarding to how the language evolves.

Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2312
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

From greg to ja̤! A truly spectacular change! In The Power of Babel, John McWhorter mentions an Amerindian language in which the word for "water" reduced from something polysyllabic in its ancestor to something like aa or o.

It's fascinating to see how the Txabao words would look millennia later. Sadly, no Txabao person will live to see the change.

And sope vs. so̤pe . . . I bet the average Kojikeng speaker will falsely believe the words are related.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
greek
greek
Posts: 579
Joined: 21 Jul 2016 00:16

Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote:
20 Oct 2019 02:28
From greg to ja̤! A truly spectacular change! In The Power of Babel, John McWhorter mentions an Amerindian language in which the word for "water" reduced from something polysyllabic in its ancestor to something like aa or o.

It's fascinating to see how the Txabao words would look millennia later. Sadly, no Txabao person will live to see the change.

And sope vs. so̤pe . . . I bet the average Kojikeng speaker will falsely believe the words are related.
Hahaha. Oh yeah! I think I've heard that before :D Yeah some of these words get so reduced. I'm Extremely tempted to create a rule where Word final stop + vowel get reduced to a fricative when the word is 3 or more syllables long. This literally is my opportunity to get a language with the velar fricative as a plural marker. haha. Formulating such a potential the rule in a sensible way is the tricky bit. I have been thinking of causing some sort of collapse in vowel distinctions on words 3 syllables or more long. Maybe merging the breathy and modal voices and or merging /e/s with /i/s to essentially have only 3 possible qualities on words that long. /i a o/.

I'm curious to see what your verbal system will look like.

Here is some more:

Dual of male nouns ending with a consonant

ʔatʃtrae (brother-in-law -- you'd use the dual for "These two men are brothers-in-law")

Nominative: ʔatʃtɾaebi -> ʔatʃtʰa:βi -> ãʃtʰa:wi -> ẽhtʰa:we -> e̤tʰa:we -> e̤tʰawe
Accusative: ʔatʃtɾaebiʔis -> e̤tʰawekḛ
Genitive: ʔatʃtɾaebiʔao -> e̤tʰaweko̰
Dative: ʔatʃtɾaebiʔaex -> e̤tʰaweka̰
Vocative: ʔatʃtɾaebiʔan -> e̤tʰaweka̰
Instrumental: ʔatʃtɾaebiʔen -> e̤tʰawekḛ
Oblique: ʔatʃtɾaebiʔar -> e̤tʰaweka̰

Declining female nouns

Female nouns ending with a single, unaccented vowel

ana: girl, young woman

Singular
Nominative: ana ->no
Accusative: anae -> na
Genitive: anai -> na
Dative: anoi -> no
Vocative: anax -> no
Instrumental: anaʃ ->no
Oblique: anidz ->ni̤

Plural
Nominative: anae -> na
Accusative: anaeʔae -> noka̰
Genitive: anaeʔai -> noka̰
Dative: anaeʔoi -> noko̰
Vocative: anaeʔax -> noko̰
Instrumental: anaeʔaʃ -> noko̰
Oblique: anaeʔidz -> noki̤


Dual of female nouns ending with a single, unaccented vowel

meibdha (female cousin -- you'd use the dual for "These two women are cousins")

Nominative: meibdhabi -> me:pdˤa:βi -> me:ɸdˤa:wi -> me:ɸdˤa:we -> me̤:da̰:we -> me̤ta̰we
Accusative: meibdhabiʔae -> me̤ta̰weka̰
Genitive: meibdhabiʔai -> me̤ta̰weka̰
Dative: meibdhabiʔoi -> me̤ta̰weko̰
Vocative: meibdhabiʔax -> me̤ta̰weko̰
Instrumental: meibdhabiʔaʃ -> me̤ta̰weko̰
Oblique: meibdhabiʔidz -> me̤ta̰weke̤

Female nouns ending with a consonant

ʔilaog: woman

Singular
Nominative: ʔilaog -> ĩlo:k -> ĩ:lo:x -> lo:h -> jo̤: -> jo̤
Accusative: ʔilaogʔae ->jo̤ka̰
Genitive: ʔilaogʔai ->jo̤ka̰
Dative: ʔilaogʔoi ->jo̤ko̰
Vocative: ʔilaogʔax ->jo̤ko̰
Instrumental: ʔilaogʔaʃ ->jo̤ko̰
Oblique: ʔilaogʔidz ->jo̤ke̤

Plural
Nominative: ʔilaogʔae -> jo̤ka̰
Accusative: ʔilaogʔaeʔae -> jo̤ka̰ka̰
Genitive: ʔilaogʔaeʔai -> jo̤ka̰ka̰
Dative: ʔilaogʔaeʔoi -> jo̤ka̰ko̰
Vocative: ʔilaogʔaeʔax -> jo̤ka̰ka̰
Instrumental: ʔilaogʔaeʔaʃ -> jo̤ka̰ka̰
Oblique: ʔilaogʔaeʔidz -> jo̤ka̰ke̤

Dual of female nouns ending with a consonant

ħes (sister -- you'd use the dual for "These two women are sisters")

Nominative: ħesbi -> ħebi -> ħe:bi -> xḛ:be -> xḛ:pe -> hḛpe
Accusative: ħesbiʔae -> hḛpeka̰
Genitive: ħesbiʔai -> hḛpeka̰
Dative: ħesbiʔoi -> hḛpeko̰
Vocative: ħesbiʔax -> hḛpeka̰
Instrumental: ħesbiʔaʃ -> hḛpeka̰
Oblique: ħesbiʔidz -> hḛpeke̤

Female nouns ending with a vowel diphthong

tʃau: little girl

Singular
Nominative: tʃau -> tʃo: -> tʃʰo: -> tʃʰo -> tʰo
Accusative: tʃauʔae -> tʰoka̰
Genitive: tʃauʔai -> tʰoka̰
Dative: tʃauʔoi -> tʰoko̰
Vocative: tʃauʔax -> tʰoka̰
Instrumental: tʃauʔaʃ -> tʰoka̰
Oblique: tʃauʔidz -> tʰoke̤

Plural
Nominative: tʃauʔae -> tʰoka̰
Accusative: tʃauʔaeʔae -> tʰoka̰ka̰
Genitive: tʃauʔaeʔai -> tʰoka̰ka̰
Dative: tʃauʔaeʔoi-> tʰoka̰ko̰
Vocative: tʃauʔaeʔax -> tʰoka̰ka̰
Instrumental: tʃauʔaeʔaʃ -> tʰoka̰ka̰
Oblique: tʃauʔaeʔidz -> tʰoka̰ke̤

Dual of female nouns ending with a consonant
krabrou (sister-in-law -- you'd use the dual for "These two women are sisters-in-law")

Nominative: kɾabroubi -> kʰa:ro:βi -> kʰa:ro:wi -> kʰa:lo:we -> kʰa:jo:we -> kʰajowe
Accusative: kɾabroubiʔae -> kʰajoweka̰
Genitive: kɾabroubiʔai -> kʰajoweka̰
Dative: kɾabroubiʔoi -> kʰajoweko̰
Vocative: kɾabroubiʔax -> kʰajoweka̰
Instrumental: kɾabroubiʔaʃ -> kʰajoweka̰
Oblique: kɾabroubiʔidz -> kʰajoweke̤

Khemehekis
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

No, jo̤, tho . . . you've got an -o thing going on. I wonder if all three words will retain their original meanings after all those years!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote:
27 Oct 2019 23:21
No, jo̤, tho . . . you've got an -o thing going on. I wonder if all three words will retain their original meanings after all those years!
It's a good question! I suspect some of them may live on as suffixes only or in compound words. I have not made those decisions just yet :P
The -o frequency is probably higher because I went from a typical 5 vowel system to a 4 vowel system, with a lot of [a] and [o] going to [o]. If I were doing it again I might make fronting of back high and mid vowels occur when in syllables preceding front vowels umlaut style and then unround the resulting front rounded vowels, then merge the o and u into o elsewhere. The diphthongs that were available worked well enough though. I suppose I could still do something to balance things out a bit but I'll just live with it I guess. I've been contemplating what the most logical way to bring back might be. Perhaps a combination of foreign loans with raising of [o] in proximity with [w]? Or another asymmetric vowel rotation.

Khemehekis
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

Nachtuil wrote:
31 Oct 2019 02:33
Khemehekis wrote:
27 Oct 2019 23:21
No, jo̤, tho . . . you've got an -o thing going on. I wonder if all three words will retain their original meanings after all those years!
It's a good question! I suspect some of them may live on as suffixes only or in compound words. I have not made those decisions just yet :P
The -o frequency is probably higher because I went from a typical 5 vowel system to a 4 vowel system, with a lot of [a] and [o] going to [o]. If I were doing it again I might make fronting of back high and mid vowels occur when in syllables preceding front vowels umlaut style and then unround the resulting front rounded vowels, then merge the o and u into o elsewhere. The diphthongs that were available worked well enough though. I suppose I could still do something to balance things out a bit but I'll just live with it I guess. I've been contemplating what the most logical way to bring back might be. Perhaps a combination of foreign loans with raising of [o] in proximity with [w]? Or another asymmetric vowel rotation.
Heh, it took me a while to figure out that the end of your post all got underlined because you typed in [u] to mean "/u/ as a phone".

Sounds like a good answer, though. After all, if the words for "you" and "I" start sounding the same as a language evolves, we all know it will resort to coining new words or borrowing.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote:
31 Oct 2019 03:43
Heh, it took me a while to figure out that the end of your post all got underlined because you typed in [u] to mean "/u/ as a phone".

Sounds like a good answer, though. After all, if the words for "you" and "I" start sounding the same as a language evolves, we all know it will resort to coining new words or borrowing.
Haha sorry about that!!! :P Ooops.

Anyway, thanks to the new words the noun class endings chart is almost complete. A lot of [k]... from all the glottal stops basically. A lot of morphological leveling and some additional phonetic processes is going to go down but I'm starting to see some patterns.
Image

More words converted:
Spoiler:
dzipe: spider

Singular
Nominative: dzipe -> repa
Accusative: dzipik -> repe̤
Genitive: dzipeu -> repe
Dative: dzipou -> repo
Vocative: dzipan -> repa̰
Instrumental: dzipem -> repḛ
Oblique: dzipaoʃ -> repo

Plural
Nominative: dzipat -> repo̤
Accusative: dzipatʔik -> repo̤ke̤
Genitive: dzipatʔeu -> repo̤kḛ
Dative: dzipatʔou -> repo̤ko̰
Vocative: dzipatʔan -> repo̤ka̰
Instrumental: dzipatʔem -> repo̤kḛ
Oblique: dzipatʔaoʃ -> repo̤ko̰

Dual of animal nouns ending with a single, unaccented vowel

ʔatʃru (mates)

Nominative: ʔatʃrubi -> ʔatʃʰuβi -> ãtʃʰuwi -> õtʃʰiwe -> o̰tʰiwe
Accusative: ʔatʃrubiʔik -> o̰tʰiweke̤
Genitive: ʔatʃrubiʔeu -> o̰tʰiwekḛ
Dative: ʔatʃrubiʔou -> o̰tʰiweko̰
Vocative: ʔatʃrubiʔan -> o̰tʰiweka̰
Instrumental: ʔatʃrubiʔem -> o̰tʰiwekḛ
Oblique: ʔatʃrubiʔaoʃ -> o̰tʰiweko̰

Animal nouns ending with a consonant

xʃet: scorpion

Singular
Nominative: xʃet -> ʃes -> ʃah -> sa̤
Accusative: xʃetʔik -> sa̤ke̤
Genitive: xʃetʔeu -> sa̤kḛ
Dative: xʃetʔou -> sa̤ko̰
Vocative: xʃetʔan -> sa̤ka̰
Instrumental: xʃetʔem -> sa̤kḛ
Oblique: xʃetʔaoʃ -> sa̤ko̰

Plural
Nominative: xʃetʔat -> sa̤ko̤
Accusative: xʃetʔatʔik -> sa̤ke̤ke̤
Genitive: xʃetʔatʔeu -> sa̤ke̤kḛ
Dative: xʃetʔatʔou -> sa̤ke̤ko̰
Vocative: xʃetʔatʔan -> sa̤ke̤ka̰
Instrumental: xʃetʔatʔem -> sa̤ke̤kḛ
Oblique: xʃetʔatʔaoʃ -> sa̤ke̤ko̰

Animal nouns ending with a vowel diphthong

gao: camel

Singular
Nominative: gao -> ko
Accusative: gaoʔik -> koki̤
Genitive: gaoʔeu -> kokḛ
Dative: gaoʔou -> koko̰
Vocative: gaoʔan -> koka̰
Instrumental: gaoʔem -> kokḛ
Oblique: gaoʔaoʃ -> koko̰

Plural
Nominative: gaoʔat -> koko̤
Accusative: gaoʔatʔik -> koko̤ke̤
Genitive: gaoʔatʔeu -> koko̤kḛ
Dative: gaoʔatʔou -> koko̤ko̰
Vocative: gaoʔatʔan -> koko̤ka̰
Instrumental: gaoʔatʔem -> koko̤kḛ
Oblique: gaoʔatʔaoʃ -> koko̤ko̰


nebu: nose

Singular
Nominative: nebu -> ne:βu -> ne:wu -> ne:wi -> newi
Accusative: nebam -> newa̰
Genitive: nebau ->newo
Dative: nebet -> newi̤
Vocative: nebuk -> newi̤
Instrumental: nebaiz -> newa
Oblique: nebaz -> newa

Plural
Nominative: nebod -> newo̤
Accusative: nebodʔam -> newo̤ka̰
Genitive: nebodʔau -> newo̤ko̰
Dative: nebodʔet -> newo̤ka̤
Vocative: nebodʔuk -> newo̤ki̤
Instrumental: nebodʔaiz -> newo̤ka̰
Oblique: nebodʔaz -> newo̤ka̰

Dual of body part nouns ending with a single, unaccented vowel

kruʔa (hand)

Nominative: kruʔabi -> kʰuʔaβi -> kʰuʔãwi -> kʰikãwe -> kʰikwe
Accusative: kruʔabiʔam -> kʰikweka̰
Genitive: kruʔabiʔau -> kʰikweko̰
Dative: kruʔabiʔet -> kʰikweka̤
Vocative: kruʔabiʔuk -> kʰikweki̤
Instrumental: kruʔabiʔaiz -> kʰikweka̰
Oblique: kruʔabiʔaz -> kʰikweka̰

Body part nouns ending with a consonant

zredz: nail

Singular
Nominative: zredzʔu -> ʒetsʔu -> jasʔĩ -> ja̤kḭ
Accusative: zredzʔam -> ja̤ka̰
Genitive: zredzʔau -> ja̤ko̰
Dative: zredzʔet -> ja̤ka̤
Vocative: zredzʔuk -> ja̤ki̤
Instrumental: zredzʔaiz -> ja̤ka̰
Oblique: zredzʔaz -> ja̤ka̰

Plural
Nominative: zredzʔod -> ja̤ko̤
Accusative: zredzʔodʔam -> ja̤ko̤ka̰
Genitive: zredzʔodʔau -> ja̤ko̤ko̰
Dative: zredzʔodʔet -> ja̤ko̤ka̤
Vocative: zredzʔodʔuk -> ja̤ko̤ki̤
Instrumental: zredzʔodʔaiz -> ja̤ko̤ka̰
Oblique: zredzʔodʔaz -> ja̤ko̤ka̰

Dual of body part nouns ending with a consonant

zeud (eye)

Nominative: zeudbi -> ze:ɸbi -> ze:hbi ->dze̤:bei -> re̤:pe -> re̤pe
Accusative: zeudbiʔam -> ra̤peka̰
Genitive: zeudbiʔau -> ra̤pekõ
Dative: zeudbiʔet -> ra̤peka̤
Vocative: zeudbiʔuk -> ra̤peki̤
Instrumental: zeudbiʔaiz -> ra̤peka̰
Oblique: zeudbiʔaz -> ra̤peka̰

Body part nouns ending with a vowel diphthong

grau: heart

Singular
Nominative: grau -> ʀo: -> wo: -> wo
Accusative: grauʔam -> woka̰
Genitive: grauʔau -> woko̰
Dative: grauʔet -> woka̤
Vocative: grauʔuk -> woki̤
Instrumental: grauʔaiz -> woka̰
Oblique: grauʔaz -> woka̰

Plural
Nominative: grauʔod -> ʀo:ʔos -> wo:ʔõh -> woko̤
Accusative: grauʔodʔam -> woko̤ka̰
Genitive: grauʔodʔau -> woko̤ko̰
Dative: grauʔodʔet -> woko̤ka̤
Vocative: grauʔodʔuk -> woko̤ki̤
Instrumental: grauʔodʔaiz -> woko̤ka̰
Oblique: grauʔodʔaz -> woko̤ka̰

Dual of body part nouns ending with a vowel diphthong

xao (ear)

Nominative: xaobi -> xo:βi -> xo:wi -> xo:we -> howe
Accusative: xaobiʔam -> howeka̰
Genitive: xaobiʔau -> howeko̰
Dative: xaobiʔet -> howeka̤
Vocative: xaobiʔuk -> howeki̤
Instrumental: xaobiʔaiz -> howeka̰
Oblique: xaobiʔaz -> howeka̰

Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

More words converted.
Inanimate nouns ending with a single, unaccented vowel:
gogu: rock, stone

Singular
Nominative: gogu -> goɣu -> go:ɣu -> gwi -> kwi
Accusative: goges -> kwa
Genitive: gogaʃ -> kwo
Dative: gogi -> kwe
Vocative: gogaɾ -> goɣuɾ -> go:ɣu -> gwi -> kwi
Instrumental: gogad -> goɣat -> go:ɣos -> gwoh -> kwo̤
Oblique: gogatʃ -> kwo̤

Plural
Nominative: gogim -> kwḛ
Accusative: gogimʔes -> goɣimʔes -> go:wi:ŋeh -> gwi:ŋa -> kwi:ŋ -> kwiŋ (unexpected!)
Genitive: gogimʔaʃ -> kwiŋo̤
Dative: gogimʔi -> kwiŋ
Vocative: gogimʔar -> kwiŋ
Instrumental: gogimʔad -> kwiŋo̤
Oblique: gogimʔatʃ -> kwiŋo̤

Dual of inanimate nouns ending with a single, unaccented vowel:
tʃakta (sandal)

Nominative: tʃaktabi -> tʃaktaβi -> tʃaxta:wi -> tʃohta:we -> tʃʰo̤ta:we -> tʰo̤ta:we
Accusative: tʃaktabiʔes -> tʰo̤ta:weka̰
Genitive: tʃaktabiʔaʃ -> tʰo̤ta:weko̰
Dative: tʃaktabiʔi -> tʰo̤ta:wekḛ
Vocative: tʃaktabiʔar -> tʰo̤ta:weko̤
Instrumental: tʃaktabiʔad -> tʰo̤ta:weka̤
Oblique: tʃaktabiʔatʃ -> tʰo̤ta:weko̤

Inanimate nouns ending with a consonant:
ħaz: tree

Singular
Nominative: ħaz -> ħas -> ħah -> xo̰ -> ho̰
Accusative: ħazʔes -> ho̰ka̰
Genitive: ħazʔaʃ -> ho̰ko̰
Dative: ħazʔi -> ho̰kḛ
Vocative: ħazʔar -> ho̰ko̰
Instrumental: ħazʔad -> ho̰ko̤
Oblique: ħazʔatʃ -> ho̰ko̤

Plural
Nominative: ħazʔim -> ho̰kḛ
Accusative: ħazʔimʔes -> ħasʔimʔes -> ħahʔi:mʔeh -> xo̰kĩ:ŋ -> ho̰kḭŋ
Genitive: ħazʔimʔaʃ -> ho̰kḭŋ
Dative: ħazʔimʔi -> ho̰kḭŋ
Vocative: ħazʔimʔar -> ho̰kḭŋ
Instrumental: ħazʔimʔad -> ho̰kḭŋo̤
Oblique: ħazʔimʔatʃ -> ho̰kḭŋo̤

Dual of inanimate nouns ending with a consonant:

ʔud (shoe)

Nominative: ʔudbi -> ʔusbi -> ũhbi -> ĩbe -> ĩpe -> ḭpe
Accusative: ʔudbiʔes -> ḭpeka̰
Genitive: ʔudbiʔaʃ -> ḭpeko̰
Dative: ʔudbiʔi -> ḭpeke̤
Vocative: ʔudbiʔar -> ḭpeko̰
Instrumental: ʔudbiʔad -> ḭpeko̤
Oblique: ʔudbiʔatʃ -> ḭpeko̤

Inanimate nouns ending with a vowel diphthong:
shei: river

Singular
Nominative: sˤei -> sˤe: -> sḛ: -> sḛ
Accusative: sˤeiʔes -> sḛka̰
Genitive: sˤeiʔaʃ -> sḛko̰
Dative: sˤeiʔi -> sḛkḛ
Vocative: sˤeiʔar -> sḛko̰
Instrumental: sˤeiʔad -> sḛko̤
Oblique: sˤeiʔatʃ -> sḛko̤

Plural
Nominative: sˤeiʔim -> sˤe:ʔim -> sˤe:ʔĩ -> sẽ:kẽ -> sḛkḛ
Accusative: sˤeiʔimʔes -> sˤe:ʔiŋʔeh -> sˤe:ʔiŋe -> sḛ:kĩŋ -> sḛkḭŋ
Genitive: sˤeiʔimʔaʃ -> sḛkḭŋ
Dative: sˤeiʔimʔi -> sḛkḭŋ
Vocative: sˤeiʔimʔar -> sḛkḭŋ
Instrumental: sˤeiʔimʔad -> sḛkḭŋ
Oblique: sˤeiʔimʔatʃ -> sḛkḭŋ

Dual of inanimate nouns ending with a vowel diphthong:
tˤurou (sleeve)

Nominative: tˤuroubi -> tˤuro:βi -> tˤulo:wi -> tˤilo:we -> tḛjo:we -> tḛjowe
Accusative: tˤuroubiʔes -> tḛjoweka̰
Genitive: tˤuroubiʔaʃ -> tḛjoweko̰
Dative: tˤuroubiʔi -> tḛjowekḛ
Vocative: tˤuroubiʔar -> tḛjowekḛ
Instrumental: tˤuroubiʔad -> tḛjoweko̤
Oblique: tˤuroubiʔatʃ -> tḛjoweko̤

Khemehekis
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

Hurrah! You have all seven of the noun classes of Txabao derived now!

Although perhaps I should include a note on what to do when a noun ends in a glottal stop . . .
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Haha yes :)

Don't say those things! :p jk Nah though, if it feels necessary.

I think I will have a lot of levelling too. Hopefully I can salvage a few endings from more frequent noun classes and have them re-analysed to do work more broadly.

I'm exceedingly excited to learn that at least one language, Cayuga, has differential word order based on definiteness of patients. With VP being the normal word order but PV when the patient is indefinite. I will likely employ that as it is what I wanted earlier.

I'm going to have to create a new thread specifically for Old Kojikeng I think, since it will make a lot of what I have in this thread not relevant, or at least, require a significant amount of rebuilding.

Khemehekis
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

Nachtuil wrote:
24 Nov 2019 19:16
Don't say those things! :p jk Nah though, if it feels necessary.
I'll probably unthinkingly make a few nouns end in glottal stops in the nominative singular, so it probably is necessary.
I think I will have a lot of levelling too. Hopefully I can salvage a few endings from more frequent noun classes and have them re-analysed to do work more broadly.
Sounds good!
I'm exceedingly excited to learn that at least one language, Cayuga, has differential word order based on definiteness of patients. With VP being the normal word order but PV when the patient is indefinite. I will likely employ that as it is what I wanted earlier.
Wow! The conlang Spocanian has differential word order depending on the tense of the verb.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

I'm going to either rework this thread or make a new thread for an "Old Kojikeng" language. If I do the later I'll just cross link the two threads.

Below are the all important pronouns converted from the Txabao language. I'm going to discard the dual forms of things in the third person but change the scope of the remaining 1st and 2nd person dual pronouns for clusivity and formality respectively. Essentially I have not bothered to convert the 3rd person dual pronouns as a result. I want to combine a few of the cases and noun classes together but have not yet decided which exact arrangement.

I've been excited to do the pronouns for quite some time given how the result of the sound changes will inform decisions about what merging of cases or noun classes I will do. I have previously stared quite a bit at the resulting general noun declension endings. I will ultimately just have to make decisions about things but I find the loose restrictions imposed by the process quite fun. I may have made some mistakes with my sound changes and will need to adjust some past work with a recent change but I shouldn't expect that humans would be so precise either haha.

Going forward after this I'm going to only convert word declensions that the future language make use of where I can. Some really delightful homophones occurred that I'll get to resolve. I went back to include the dual of body parts to check something for reasons that may be intuitive once you see the entry:
Spoiler:
First person singular: I …….. This one may trip up some English speakers.
Nominative: xi -> xe -> he
Accusative: xis -> xe -> he
Genitive: xoi -> xi: -> hi
Dative: xet -> xes -> xih -> hi̤
Vocative: xeu -> xe: -> he
Instrumental: xain -> xa:n -> xã: -> xã ->ha̰
Oblique: xats -> xas -> xoh -> xo̤ -> ho̤

First person plural: we (will be an inclusive 1st person pronoun)
Nominative: tra -> tʰa -> tʰo
Accusative: tras -> tʰo
Genitive: troi -> tʰo
Dative: tret -> tʰa̤
Vocative: treu -> tʰe
Instrumental: train -> tʰã
Oblique: trats -> tʰo̤

First person dual: we two (will be an exclusive 1st person pronoun)
Nominative: ra -> la -> lo -> jo
Accusative: ras -> jo
Genitive: roi -> jo
Dative: ret -> res-> -> lah -> ja̤
Vocative: reu -> ja
Instrumental: rain -> jã
Oblique: rats -> jo̤

Second person singular: you
Nominative: pi -> pʰe
Accusative: pis -> pʰe
Genitive: poi ->pʰo
Dative: pet ->pʰa̤
Vocative: peu -> pʰe
Instrumental: pain -> pʰḛ
Oblique: pats -> pʰo̤

Second person plural: all of you
Nominative: bra -> ra -> lo -> jo
Accusative: bras -> jo
Genitive: broi -> jo
Dative: bret -> jo̤
Vocative: breu -> je
Instrumental: brain -> jḛ
Oblique: brats ->jo̤

Second person dual: you two (future formal pronoun? Or should this become plural and old plural become formal... hmm)
Nominative: ksa ->sa -> so
Accusative: ksas -> so
Genitive: ksoi -> so
Dative: kset ->se̤
Vocative: kseu -> se
Instrumental: ksain ->sa̰
Oblique: ksats -> so̤

Third person ethereal singular (She, He, it)
Nominative: mu -> mi
Accusative: munun -> munũ -> minĩ -> min
Genitive: munaʃ ->mino -> min
Dative: munoʔ -> min
Vocative: muneu ->min
Instrumental: mune ->min
Oblique: munib ->min

Third person ethereal plural (they)
Nominative: tˤap -> tˤaɸ -> tˤah -> tʰo̤
Accusative: tˤapʔun -> tˤaɸʔun -> to̤ʔũ -> to̤kḭ̃ -> tʰo̤kḛ
Genitive: tˤapʔaʃ ->tʰo̤ko̰
Dative: tˤapʔoʔ -> tʰo̤ko̰
Vocative: tˤapʔeu ->tʰo̤ka̰
Instrumental: tˤapʔei ->tʰo̤ka̰
Oblique: tˤapʔib ->tʰo̤ke

Third person human singular (she, he, s/he or they)
Nominative: sˤeb -> sˤeɸ -> sˤeh -> sa̰̤ -> sa̤
Accusative: sˤebʔak -> sa̤so
Genitive: sˤebʔix ->sa̤sḛ
Dative: sˤebʔaiʃ ->sa̤sa̰
Vocative: sˤebʔub ->sa̤sḛ
Instrumental: sˤebʔim -> sa̤sḛ
Oblique: sˤebʔeʔ ->sa̤sa̰

Third person human plural (they)
Nominative: doun -> tõ: -> to̰
Accusative: dounʔak -> to̰ko
Genitive: dounʔiq -> to̰ke
Dative: dounʔaiʃ -> to̰ka̰
Vocative: dounʔub -> to̰kḛ
Instrumental: dounʔim -> to̰kḛ
Oblique: dounʔeʔ -> to̰ka̰

Third person masculine singular (he)
Nominative: ʔin -> ʔĩ -> ʔẽ -> ḛ̃ -> ḛ
Accusative: ʔinʔis -> ḛkḛ
Genitive: ʔinʔao -> ḛko̰
Dative: ʔinʔaeʃ -> ḛka̰
Vocative: ʔinʔan -> ḛko̰
Instrumental: ʔinʔen -> ḛka̰
Oblique: ʔinʔar -> ḛko̰

Third person masculine plural (they)
Nominative: pser ->ser -> se: -> se
Accusative: pserʔis -> seke
Genitive: pserʔao -> seko
Dative: pserʔaeq -> seka
Vocative: pserʔan -> seko̰
Instrumental: pserʔen -> seka̰
Oblique: pserʔar -> seko̰

Third person feminine singular (she)
Nominative: rax -> la -> lo -> jo
Accusative: raxʔae ->joka̰
Genitive: raxʔai ->joka̰
Dative: raxʔoi ->joko̰
Vocative: raxʔax ->joko̰
Instrumental: raxʔaʃ ->joko̰
Oblique: raxʔidz ->jokḛ

Third person feminine plural (they)
Nominative: mao ->mo
Accusative: maoʔae -> moka̰
Genitive: maoʔai -> moka̰
Dative: maoʔoi -> moko̰
Vocative: maoʔax -> moko̰
Instrumental: maoʔaʃ -> moko̰
Oblique: maoʔidz -> mokḛ

Third person animal singular (it)
Nominative: ʔaus -> ʔo: -> õ ->o̰ …….. Well then!
Accusative: ʔausʔik ->o̰ke
Genitive: ʔausʔeu ->o̰ke
Dative: ʔausʔou ->o̰ko̰
Vocative: ʔausʔan ->o̰ko̰
Instrumental: ʔausʔem ->o̰kḛ
Oblique: ʔausʔaoʃ ->o̰ko̰

Third person animal plural (they)
Nominative: boiʃ -> po
Accusative: boiʃʔik -> pokḛ
Genitive: boiʃʔeu -> pokḛ
Dative: boiʃʔou -> poko̰
Vocative: boiʃʔan -> poko̰
Instrumental: boiʃʔem -> pokḛ
Oblique: boixʔaoʃ -> poko̰

Third person body part singular (it) ……… This one is fascinating. The number distinction completely gone except for in dual! Notice similarity with 3rd masculine plural
Nominative: zeiʃ -> se
Accusative: zeiʃʔam -> seko̰
Genitive: zeiʃʔau -> seko̰
Dative: zeiʃʔet ->seke
Vocative: zeiʃʔuk->seki
Instrumental: zeiʃʔaiz -> seka̰
Oblique: zeiʃʔaz -> seko̰

Third person body part dual (they two)
Nominative: zeiʃbi -> ze:bi -> ze:pe -> sepe
Accusative: zeiʃbiʔam -> sepeko̰
Genitive: zeiʃbiʔau -> sepeko̰
Dative: zeiʃbiʔet -> sepeka
Vocative: zeiʃbiʔuk -> sepeki
Instrumental: zeiʃbiʔaiz -> sepeka̰
Oblique: zeiʃbiʔaz -> sepeko̰

Third person body part plural (they)
Nominative: kseu ->se
Accusative: kseuʔam ->seko̰
Genitive: kseuʔau ->seko̰
Dative: kseuʔet ->seke
Vocative: kseuʔuk -> seki
Instrumental: kseuʔaiz -> seka̰
Oblique: kseuʔaz ->seko̰

Third person inanimate singular (it)
Nominative: zˤo -> so̰
Accusative: zˤes -> sa̰
Genitive: zˤaʃ -> so̰
Dative: zˤi -> sḛ
Vocative: zˤar -> so̰
Instrumental: zˤad -> so
Oblique: zˤatʃ -> so

Third person inanimate plural (they)
Nominative: to -> tʰo
Accusative: tes -> tʰa
Genitive: taʃ -> tʰo
Dative: ti -> tʰe
Vocative: tar -> tʰo
Instrumental: tad -> tʰo
Oblique: tatx -> tʰo
Huh... wow.
So just in the nominative:
1st S: he
1st D: jo
1st P: tʰo
2nd S: pʰe
2nd D: so
2nd P: jo
third person below:
ethereal S: mi
ethereal P: tʰo̤
human S: sa̤
human P: to̤
masc S: ḛ
masc P: se
fem S: jo
fem P: mo
animal S: o̰
animal P: po
bodypart S: se
bodypart D: sepe
bodypart P: se
inanimate S: so̰
inanimate P: tʰo

Now... I should probably consider the accusative and oblique forms for less animate noun classes due to them being less likely to occur frequently in the nominative but this gives me much to think about.
Last edited by Nachtuil on 19 Apr 2020 00:20, edited 2 times in total.

Khemehekis
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

Oh, that is so cool! Zeix, kseu, and pser all merged due to sound changes!

There will clearly be a lot of change. It happened with the SAE languages and it happened with the Indo-Aryan languages, so case and declension overhauls are a thing real language families do.
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote:
18 Apr 2020 19:59
Oh, that is so cool! Zeix, kseu, and pser all merged due to sound changes!

There will clearly be a lot of change. It happened with the SAE languages and it happened with the Indo-Aryan languages, so case and declension overhauls are a thing real language families do.
It is fascinating. It was my goal to reduce the morphology and phonology to get things to work with the desired Kojikeng language but definitely delightful and unexpected at times! :)

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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

I finally have made some decisions about the cases and noun classes which I'll show below. Here is some background and my current thinking on the development of the language that would become classical Kojikeng:

To Classical:
Sound changes and the incorporation of new adult speakers from other languages reduce the presence of and importance of declension paradigms. As a result the flexibility of word order becomes more restrictive in part to tolerate new homophones. The incorporation of loan words also play a part in this process.

Contact with other Txabao peoples is maintained for a period of time after becoming a distinct dialect though mutual intelligibility becomes more strained over time. Eary Bokisig speakers come in contact with the future Kojikeng group bringing in loanwords but also a few grammatical features. During this period the dual number system remains intact due to both language groups having it but becomes optional and decreases in use. During the long warring period between Bokisig and Txabao the Kojikeng precursor tribes play different roles in the conflict. Sometimes temporarily fighting Bokisig speakers and sometimes Txabao speakers.

Before and after the Bokisig empire forms the Kojikeng people remain relatively small in number and maintain a nomadic or semi nomadic lifestyle passing back and forth across both sides of the continent (D3, D4, E3 and E4) for a long time, often engaging in trade and slowly getting drawn southward. The camel and eventually chariots retain significant importance during this period. Some groups break off or merge with other peoples or tragically perish but the groups that eventually come to control the Oratsem peninsula manage to survive and maintain their language and traditions.

Due to a period of multigenerational contact and intermarriage with some early Bokisig speakers the idea of inclusive and exclusive pronouns got incorporated and as the dual fell out of strict use, going from optional to not used the semantics of the dual and plural 1st person pronouns changed. The 1st person dual comes to have an exclusive meaning and the 1st person plural comes to have an inclusive meaning.

Most nouns lose the dual suffixes and instead use the plural. A number of nouns, especially body parts, remain in the dual although through sound changes this distinction doesn’t matter by the classical period. However some pairs of dual and plural of the same noun clung on with divergent meanings such as parent. These nouns, despite coming to belong to the same gender, retain their separate dual or plural endings.

By the classical period the masculine and body part genders merge together. The feminine and human also merge. The animal gender remains as does the inanimate.The few words that belong to the ethereal gender diffuse into other genders however it’s pronoun remains and becomes a bit of an honorific however while retaining its religious usage it broadens in use considerably. Noun changes and successive waves of new speakers from incorporation of other tribes learning to speak the language reduces and tends to regularise the agreement system dramatically. This is for the best probably as it likely would’ve been quite a mess, objectively.

In terms of cases, the 7 case system gets reduced to a four case system. Nom and Acc merge (weird I know, though it is helpful Bokisig also does not distinguish the two), Dative and Genitive merge (I got this idea reading about how Bulgarian lost its case system), the Instrumental and Oblique cases also merge. Word order and adpositions pick up the slack. Perhaps miraculously, the Vocative clings to existence. A new construct form of nouns arises out of the old /ta/ morpheme used to modify the possessed element when followed by a possessor of higher animacy.

I've been staring at some charts that I may or may not post about the theoretical forms that sound changes alone would bring the case endings and pronouns to be like before other factors. I'm extremely tempted to somehow borrow a pronoun from proto Bokisig to create a new 2nd person pronoun to resolve a conflict of having [jo] duplicated as a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person pronoun. This of course could be tolerated with adequate verbal marking and stricter word order but it is awkward. The thing is that at the time of contact that I was thinking the pronouns would actually have no real issue yet due to the few sound changes that occured at that point. I may want to create new forms by augmenting old (say adding a word like "all" to a 2nd person pronoun to create a new one), maintaining a variant of a Bokisig pronoun in variation that eventually replaces the offending pronoun or having it adopted from another language at a later stage. Perhaps a Bokisig or Txabao descendent. Of course I could also just deal with it.

Here are the hypotehtical forms:
https://flic.kr/p/2iSwxC5

https://flic.kr/p/2iSy6Yw

At any rate, here is the vastly reduced case ending paradigm. Phones in brackets are only present if the augmented word would end in a phone of the same category (vowel or consonant) as the suffix. As described above, ethereal nouns get incorporated into other classes and some switching around does occur for other nouns. I plan for some others of agreement but it will be light but enough to justify these being called cases. These categories are kind of odd but I wasn't fond of getting close to German or something but I think for four noun classes this probably makes sense.

Singular : Human+Female : Male + BodyParts : Animals : Inanimates
Nom/Acc : ∅ : (a̰) : (a) : (i)
Dat/Gen : (k)o̰ : (k)o̰ : (k)ḛ :(k)o̰
Vocative : (k)i : (k)i : (k)a̰ : (i)
Inst/Obl : (k)ḛ : (k)ḛ : (k)ḛ : (k)o

Plural : Human+Female : Male + BodyParts : Animals : Inanimates
Nom/Acc : (k)ḭma : kḛ : (k)o̤ke : (ḭ)ŋ
Dat/Gen : (k)a̰ : ko̰ : (k)o̤ke : ∅
Vocative : (k)ḭmi : ka̰ : (k)o̤ka̰ : ∅
Inst/Obl : (k)ḭm : kḛ : (k)e̤kḛ : (i)ŋo̤

I want to keep an animacy hierarchy as it may resolve some of my issues though it will be independent of the noun class system and behave according to semantic categories (not scientific ones though). Ideally it will show up in a few places beyond word order and the possession types. I want to work in clitics so some of the old pronouns may still have forms showing up, maybe some will be mashed into verb marking for example.

Edit: The hypothetical situation could very easily have been used to set up declensions on top of the cases. It is just that wasn't the original goal I had in mind with this language haha.

Khemehekis
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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Khemehekis »

Oh, you've clearly done a lot of work on this! It's good that the morphology of nouns and pronouns doesn't stay the same over multiple millennia. After all, the SAE languages lost their cases, and plurals developed differently in Egyptian than they did in the Semitic languages.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

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Re: Kojikeng / Kodikeng

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote:
23 Apr 2020 02:07
Oh, you've clearly done a lot of work on this! It's good that the morphology of nouns and pronouns doesn't stay the same over multiple millennia. After all, the SAE languages lost their cases, and plurals developed differently in Egyptian than they did in the Semitic languages.
Thanks :) Yes though, I have quite a few thousand years to span so I can shift quite a few things :)


Here are the hypothetical adpositions. I have been thinking to make derivational perfectives with them on some verbs. I'm not quite there yet but soon.

ʔu: in, inside
ʔu -> ʔi -> ĩ -> ḭ

xur: out of, outside
xur ->xi -> hi

ħem: to, towards
ħem -> ħẽ ->xã -> ha̰

ʔuħem: into
ʔuħem -> ũhẽ -> ĩhã̰ -> ḭja̰

xurħem: out of, out from
xurħem ->xuhẽ -> xihã -> hijã

ma: on (the surface of)
ma -> mo

maħem: onto
maħem -> meha̰

satʃ: on, on top of, atop
satʃ -> so̤

satʃħem: onto (the parrot flew ~ his shoulder)
satʃħem -> so̤ha̰

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