Depends on your font: <ü̈> and <ï̈> do exist in some fonts with four dots above aranged like this <::>Birdlang wrote:Plus, there is no single I and u with diaresis and umlaut.Linguifex wrote:Nasalization tends to reduce contrasts in vowels so just /u a i/ being nasalized would be more likely. Nasalizing all of them isn't beyond the pale, but if you're going for interesting stuff happening with phonetic environments in the morphology you may wish to have fewer nasal vowels.alynnidalar wrote:Here's question number one... I've never used nasality before and I'm not very familiar with how it works in practice. Would it be more likely that there's a nasal version of all the vowels, or only of /i a u/, or has somebody got a third idea? The problem, if I want to use ogoneks, is that there isn't a u-plus-diaeresis-plus-ogonek or i-plus-diaeresis-plus-ogonek character, and I always prefer avoiding combining characters. I dunno. I'm just spitballing here.
Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread [2011–2018]
- Creyeditor
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Creyeditor
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Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
- Thrice Xandvii
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Aren't diaeresis and umlaut two names for the same thing at this point in typography?
Also, while I understand your issue with combining diacritics, in a lot of placse ų̈ and į̈ will look just fine, IMO. But, I guess it depends on if you will regularly be using the characters in environments in which they will be rendered properly or not. I know I would look for alternative were my chosen medium one in which they would always be way off-kilter or, worse yet, stupid little boxes. (It's bad enough that "macron below" and o-ogonek don't appear on my phone!)
Also, while I understand your issue with combining diacritics, in a lot of placse ų̈ and į̈ will look just fine, IMO. But, I guess it depends on if you will regularly be using the characters in environments in which they will be rendered properly or not. I know I would look for alternative were my chosen medium one in which they would always be way off-kilter or, worse yet, stupid little boxes. (It's bad enough that "macron below" and o-ogonek don't appear on my phone!)
ü̇ and ï̇, with three dots, look very Tolkein-esque...Creyeditor wrote:Depends on your font: <ü̈> and <ï̈> do exist in some fonts with four dots above aranged like this <::>
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/b t d tʃ dʒ k g/
/s ʃ h/
/β ɾ/
/i e a o u ɪ ɛ ʊ ɔ/
-(C)V(C); allowed codas are /n ŋ t h β ɾ/
-velars merge with palatals before /i ɪ/
-only /ɪ ɛ ʊ ɔ/ or /i e o u/ can appear in a word together, but /a/ is neutral
[bɪkɔh] [tʃɪʊma] [digesa]
/b t d tʃ dʒ k g/
/s ʃ h/
/β ɾ/
/i e a o u ɪ ɛ ʊ ɔ/
-(C)V(C); allowed codas are /n ŋ t h β ɾ/
-velars merge with palatals before /i ɪ/
-only /ɪ ɛ ʊ ɔ/ or /i e o u/ can appear in a word together, but /a/ is neutral
[bɪkɔh] [tʃɪʊma] [digesa]
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- cuneiform
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Nice to know that's actually a considerable rule.Teddy wrote: -only /ɪ ɛ ʊ ɔ/ or /i e o u/ can appear in a word together, but /a/ is neutral
[bɪkɔh] [tʃɪʊma] [digesa]
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
It's pretty common in Africa as a [+-ATR] feature thing on the vowels.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
A decedent of Tjarvejani called [mɑɸømyɺidˡi] :
/p t k/
/m n ɲ/
/ ɸ v θ s ʃ x h/
/t͡ʃ/
/ɺ~dˡ /
/j ʍ /
/i y u ɯ o ø e a ɑ/
/p t k/
/m n ɲ/
/ ɸ v θ s ʃ x h/
/t͡ʃ/
/ɺ~dˡ /
/j ʍ /
/i y u ɯ o ø e a ɑ/
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
It seems you have a hole where the unrounded /o/ should be. Not that you have to, it just seems to mess up potential harmony, which I believe the mutha-Lang has. I suppose it could have lost that...but I'm rambling
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Another Tjarvejani descendent called Karpashqonwu:
/p t k kʷ q/ <p t k kw q>
/m n ŋ ŋʷ/ <m n ng nw>
/ f s ʃ x xʷ ɣ / <f s sh kh hw gh>
/ɹ/ <r>
/u o ɒ/ <u o a>
/p t k kʷ q/ <p t k kw q>
/m n ŋ ŋʷ/ <m n ng nw>
/ f s ʃ x xʷ ɣ / <f s sh kh hw gh>
/ɹ/ <r>
/u o ɒ/ <u o a>
Last edited by Shemtov on 13 Mar 2015 08:12, edited 2 times in total.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
-JRR Tolkien
- DesEsseintes
- mongolian
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
What happened to the front vowels?Shemtov wrote:/u o ɒ/ <u o a>
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
6000 years.DesEsseintes wrote:What happened to the front vowels?Shemtov wrote:/u o ɒ/ <u o a>
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
-JRR Tolkien
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Why is the a rounded, and why no rounded front vowels?
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
How is it romanized?Teddy wrote:/m n ɲ ŋ/
/b t d tʃ dʒ k g/
/s ʃ h/
/β ɾ/
/i e a o u ɪ ɛ ʊ ɔ/
-(C)V(C); allowed codas are /n ŋ t h β ɾ/
-velars merge with palatals before /i ɪ/
-only /ɪ ɛ ʊ ɔ/ or /i e o u/ can appear in a word together, but /a/ is neutral
[bɪkɔh] [tʃɪʊma] [digesa]
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/p mb t nd k ʔ/ <p mb t nd k '>
/s z x ɣ/ <s z h g>
/r l j w/ <r l y w>
/ǀ ǃ ǁ/ <c q x>
/gǀ gǃ gǁ/ <gc gq gx>
/ŋǀ ŋǃ ŋǁ/ <nc nq nx>
/i u e o a/ <i u e o a>
/iː uː eː oː aː/ <ii uu ee oo aa>
/m̩ n̩ z̩ r̩ l̩/ <m n z r l>
/naɣaː z̩te ŋǁwoʔem siːru ǃexn̩ʔe mbaːwotr̩x/
Nagaa zte nxwo'em siiru qehn'e mbaawotrh.
/p mb t nd k ʔ/ <p mb t nd k '>
/s z x ɣ/ <s z h g>
/r l j w/ <r l y w>
/ǀ ǃ ǁ/ <c q x>
/gǀ gǃ gǁ/ <gc gq gx>
/ŋǀ ŋǃ ŋǁ/ <nc nq nx>
/i u e o a/ <i u e o a>
/iː uː eː oː aː/ <ii uu ee oo aa>
/m̩ n̩ z̩ r̩ l̩/ <m n z r l>
/naɣaː z̩te ŋǁwoʔem siːru ǃexn̩ʔe mbaːwotr̩x/
Nagaa zte nxwo'em siiru qehn'e mbaawotrh.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
An idea, with quick romanization:
/p t ʈ k pʰ t ʈʰ kʰ/ b d dr g p t tr k
/m n ɳ ŋ/ m n nr ng
/j r ɽ ɹ w h ʔ/ y r rr vr w h '
/s ɕ ts tsʰ tɕ ʂ ʈʂ x/ s x z c j sh zh hx
/i u ɛ̝ ə o̞ a/ i u ey e o a
/iː uː ɛ̝ː o̞ː aː/ ii uu ee oo aa
/a a˦ a˨ a˩˥ a˥˩/ a aq ax al ag
/ɳiŋ˩˥ wa˦ ʈʂo̞ː˥˩ maː˨ kə/ Nringl waq zhog maax ke.
/p t ʈ k pʰ t ʈʰ kʰ/ b d dr g p t tr k
/m n ɳ ŋ/ m n nr ng
/j r ɽ ɹ w h ʔ/ y r rr vr w h '
/s ɕ ts tsʰ tɕ ʂ ʈʂ x/ s x z c j sh zh hx
/i u ɛ̝ ə o̞ a/ i u ey e o a
/iː uː ɛ̝ː o̞ː aː/ ii uu ee oo aa
/a a˦ a˨ a˩˥ a˥˩/ a aq ax al ag
/ɳiŋ˩˥ wa˦ ʈʂo̞ː˥˩ maː˨ kə/ Nringl waq zhog maax ke.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
I don't know if it's ANADEW or even naturalistic... but I just decided to eliminate all variants of /i/ from my phonology. That includes any diphthongs that rely on the /i/ and even using [y] as a glide. Results are encouraging.
Englishcanbepolysynthetictoo <--------- All one word!
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Lacking a /j/-like semivowel or part of a diphthong is ok. If you have /u/ or /y/ (or something similar), I think /i/ would be there. Yanesha' is a natlang with only /a e o/, but /e/ is in free variation with /ɪ/.Sasquatch wrote:I don't know if it's ANADEW or even naturalistic... but I just decided to eliminate all variants of /i/ from my phonology. That includes any diphthongs that rely on the /i/ and even using [y] as a glide. Results are encouraging.
Of course, if this is an artlang, you can do anything.
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- greek
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Raston Arve:
/pʰ p tʰ t cʰ c kʰ k/
/ts tʂ/
/s r̥ r ʂ ç j x xʷ χ ʀ h/
/m n ŋ l j v/
/a ɛ ɞ ʌ ɔ e ø i y ʊ u/
/ɒə̯ eə̯ øə̯ iə̯ yə̯ uə̯ ʌi̯ œy̯ ɔu̯ eu̯/
Numbers:
[hʌi̯ tsem bɔʔ tʂal høŋ ˈhysɐ hʊˈr̥em hʊˈѵɔʔ rʌts hʊi̯çɪj]
Vähkätton Arve:
/pʰ b ts tᵡ d tʃ dʒ kʰ g/
/f v s z ʃ χ ʁ h/
/m n r ɬ l j w/
/a ɛ ɜ ɔ e o i ɨ u/
/aː ɛː ɜː ɔː eː oː iː ɨː uː/
/ja: je: jɜ: jo: jɜ jɨ woː/
Numbers:
[ʔɛː tsem bat tsal hon ˈʔɨɬjɨ hɨˈsem hɨˈvat rɜts ˈjɜʃi]
Gjerdou Arve:
/p t ts kʲ k ɢ/
/f s χ hʲ h/
/m n r l j w/
/æ ɑ ɒ e ə o i ɨ u/
/æː ɒː eː əː oː iː ɨː uː/
Numbers:
[ʔəː tsem pɒt tsæl hon ˈʔɨfæ hoˈsem huːt rets ˈʔəse]
/pʰ p tʰ t cʰ c kʰ k/
/ts tʂ/
/s r̥ r ʂ ç j x xʷ χ ʀ h/
/m n ŋ l j v/
/a ɛ ɞ ʌ ɔ e ø i y ʊ u/
/ɒə̯ eə̯ øə̯ iə̯ yə̯ uə̯ ʌi̯ œy̯ ɔu̯ eu̯/
Numbers:
[hʌi̯ tsem bɔʔ tʂal høŋ ˈhysɐ hʊˈr̥em hʊˈѵɔʔ rʌts hʊi̯çɪj]
Vähkätton Arve:
/pʰ b ts tᵡ d tʃ dʒ kʰ g/
/f v s z ʃ χ ʁ h/
/m n r ɬ l j w/
/a ɛ ɜ ɔ e o i ɨ u/
/aː ɛː ɜː ɔː eː oː iː ɨː uː/
/ja: je: jɜ: jo: jɜ jɨ woː/
Numbers:
[ʔɛː tsem bat tsal hon ˈʔɨɬjɨ hɨˈsem hɨˈvat rɜts ˈjɜʃi]
Gjerdou Arve:
/p t ts kʲ k ɢ/
/f s χ hʲ h/
/m n r l j w/
/æ ɑ ɒ e ə o i ɨ u/
/æː ɒː eː əː oː iː ɨː uː/
Numbers:
[ʔəː tsem pɒt tsæl hon ˈʔɨfæ hoˈsem huːt rets ˈʔəse]
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
The numerals are:An idea, with quick romanization:
/p t ʈ k pʰ t ʈʰ kʰ/ b d dr g p t tr k
/m n ɳ ŋ/ m n nr ng
/j r ɽ ɹ w h ʔ/ y r rr vr w h '
/s ɕ ts tsʰ tɕ ʂ ʈʂ x/ s x z c j sh zh hx
/i u ɛ̝ ə o̞ a/ i u ey e o a
/iː uː ɛ̝ː o̞ː aː/ ii uu ee oo aa
/a a˦ a˨ a˩˥ a˥˩/ a aq ax al ag
/ɳiŋ˩˥ wa˦ ʈʂo̞ː˥˩ maː˨ kə/ Nringl waq zhog maax ke.
/jə˦ ɳiu̯ sum˩˥ ʂiː˥˩ ʔa kʰjuʔ ʈʂiʔ˨ skə˦ kiːp˩˥~ʂə/ <yeq nriu suml shiig 'a kyu' zhix' skeq kiipl~she>
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
I don't think I'd call it an artlang since that implies some sort of aesthetic goal. What would you call a language that's just for giggles?Dezinaa wrote:Lacking a /j/-like semivowel or part of a diphthong is ok. If you have /u/ or /y/ (or something similar), I think /i/ would be there. Yanesha' is a natlang with only /a e o/, but /e/ is in free variation with /ɪ/.Sasquatch wrote:I don't know if it's ANADEW or even naturalistic... but I just decided to eliminate all variants of /i/ from my phonology. That includes any diphthongs that rely on the /i/ and even using [y] as a glide. Results are encouraging.
Of course, if this is an artlang, you can do anything.
I'm fairly certain the /e/ would end up with /ɪ/-like tendencies under the right circumstances. I'm actively tweaking the phonotactics to reduce that temptation.
Englishcanbepolysynthetictoo <--------- All one word!
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- korean
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
As far as I know, "artlang" doesn't necessarily imply anything to do with aesthetics. I've understood it to mean a conlang that's made, as you say, "just for giggles".
Other people might define it differently, though.
Other people might define it differently, though.