Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread [2011–2018]

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Bachgen_Cymraeg
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Bachgen_Cymraeg »

.
Last edited by Bachgen_Cymraeg on 04 Oct 2012 18:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by CMunk »

hubris_incalculable wrote:I made this to somewhat emulate the sound and visual aesthetic of the insular Scandinavian languages (Icelandic and Faroese) - Could I have suggestions as to what more I can do with the allophony?
Consonants:
Nasals: /m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
Plosives: /p b t d k g/ <p b t d k g>
Fricatives: /ɸ β s z x/ <f v s z h>
Affricates: /pɸ bβ ts dz/ <pf bv ts dz>
Flaps: /ɾ/ <r>
Approximants: /j l w/ <ð l ǵ>
Vowels:
"Thin" Vowels: /ø y/ ö ü
"Plain" Vowels: /a ɛ ɪ ɔ ʊ/ <a e i o u>
"Broad" Vowels: /ɔa ɛj ʊi ɔu ʉu/ <á é í ó ú>
Allophony:
Voiceless plosives and affricates are preaspirated following a vowel (this carries through across word and syllable boundaries).
All obstruents palatalize prior to thin vowels, and labialize before broad vowels. No similar process occurs before plain vowels.
One thing you should add: Liquids devoice before voiceless consonants (due to preaspiration).
And if you made your rhotic retroflex you could make some retroflex assimilation in your alveolars.

Also, are those diphthongs falling or rising? Or are they "floating" (I think that's the term) as in Faroese?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Chagen »

Here's a proto-lang I want to develop from. The phonology in the daughter langs won't be such a clusterfuck, I swear:

/p pʰ pˤ b bʰ t tʰ tˤ d dʰ k kʰ kʷ kˤ g gʰ gʷ q qʰ qʷ qˤ ɢ ɢʰɢʷ/
/s f/
/ɻ/
/l j/
/n m ŋ nʷ mʷ ŋʷ/

/i a u/

And to think this started out as a Proto-Germanic rip-off. Now it looks nothing like PrGmc.

I'm not quite sure where this is gonna head, but an equivalent of Grimm's Law is gonna happen to the aspirated plosives.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by hubris_incalculable »

CMunk wrote: One thing you should add: Liquids devoice before voiceless consonants (due to preaspiration).
And if you made your rhotic retroflex you could make some retroflex assimilation in your alveolars.

Also, are those diphthongs falling or rising? Or are they "floating" (I think that's the term) as in Faroese?
I updated it:

Code: Select all

Consonants (C)
	Obstruents (O)
		Plosives (P)				/p b t d k g/				<p b t d k g>
		Fricatives (Fr)				/ɸ β s z x/					<f v s z h>
		Affricates (Af)				/pf bv ts dz ks gz/			<pf bv ts dz ks gz>
	Liquids (L)
		Nasals (N)					/m n ŋ/						<m n ng>
		Flaps (Fl)					/ɾ/							<r>
		Approximants (Ap)			/j w/						Intervocalically <ð ǵ>, otherwise <j w>
		Lateral Aprozimants (La)	/l/							<l>
Vowels (V)
	"Thin" Vowels					/ø y/						<ö ü>
	"Plain" Vowels					/a ɛ ɪ ɔ ʊ/					<a e i o u>
	"Broad" Vowels					/ɔ̯a ɛi̯ ʊi̯ ɔ̯u ʉ̯u/			<á é í ó ú>
Phonological Processes
	Voiceless plosives and affricates are preaspirated following a vowel (this carries through across word and syllable boundaries)
	All obstruents palatalize prior to thin vowels, and labialize before broad vowels. No similar process occurs before plain vowels.
		In alveolar fricatives and affricates (including /ks gz/), the palatalization is realized by turning them into post-alveolars. For example, /sy/ is pronounced [ʃy], and /gzø/ as [gʒø].
	When neighboring an obstruent, nasals assimilate the POA of that consonant, including across word boundaries.
	Liquids devoice immediately prior to voiceless plosives and affricates.
Syllable Structure
        (Fr)(C)V(L|Fr)(P|Af)
<äʒƺçķļ>
<áéíóú>
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Click »

Two phonemic inventories out of boredom:

/m n b t ʧ k s ʃ h l a aː e eː i iː o oː u uː/ ‹m n p t c k s x h a á e é i í o ó u ú›

/m n ɲ ŋ/ ‹m n ń ŋ›
/p b t d k ɡ kʷ ɡʷ/ ‹p b t d k g kw gw›
/s z x/ ‹s z h›
/w l ɾ/ ‹w l r›
/iː ɪ eɪ̯ u̞ː ə ɔ æː/ ‹í i é ó e/a o á›
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Nemesis »

I'm pleased to present you my conlang's phonemic inventory!

DOKIAN LANGUAGE PHONEMIC INVENTORY (in the IPA)

Nasals: m n ɲ
Plosives: p b t d c ɟ k g
Fricatives: f v θ ð s z ʃ ʒ ç x ɣ h
Affricates: ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ
Approximants: j w
Trill: r
Flap: ɾ
Laterals: l ʎ

Vowels: a ɐ ɛ ɔ ə e o ɘ ø i u ʊ

Other features: gemination can occur on all voiceless plosives, laterals, sibilants and on the vowels /a/, /i/, /u/. There's no tone or pitch system, but stress is phonemic (both primary and secondary stress). Several alophones can occur: ŋ r̊ l̊ ʝ ɟ͡ʝ β ɹ ɪ̈. The phoneme /ç/ may be considered an alophone of /h/ before /i/.
Some of the phonemic vowels presented may be considered alophones as ɘ and ʊ both alophones of unstressed /e/ and /u/ respectively. Dokian is an SVO language highly influenced by romance languages.
:por: :eng: :con: (Docian) :esp: :fra:
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Click »

Nemesis wrote:Several alllophones can occur: ŋ r̊ l̊ ʝ ɟ͡ʝ β ɹ ɪ̈.
Where?
Nemesis wrote:Some of the phonemic vowels presented may be considered alophones as ɘ and ʊ both alophones of unstressed /e/ and /u/ respectively. Dokian is an SVO language highly influenced by romance languages.
If the vowels are allophones, then they are not phoneMic, but phoneTic.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Esmelthien »

ʙø̞˥˩.çe̞˩ :

/m ɱ ɲ ŋ ɲᶣ ŋʷ/ <m ṃ nȷ nw ny nu>
/ɸ β f v ç ʝ x ɣ çᶣ ʝᶣ xʷ ɣʷ/ <f v ḟ ṿ hȷ gȷ hw gw hy gy hu gu>
/β͡ʀ ɬ ɮ r͡ʀ/ <x s z ř>
/ʙ̥ ʙ r̥ r/ <p b ṙ r>
/j ʎ ɰ ɥ ʎᶣ w/ <ȷ lȷ w y ly u>
/k͡ʘ ŋ͡ʘ k͡ʘ̪ ŋ͡ʘ̪ k͡ǃ ŋ͡ǃ k͡ǁ ŋ͡ǁ/
/k͡ǃʷ ŋ͡ǃʷ k͡ǁʷ ŋ͡ǁʷ/
/i/ [i y ɯ u] <ı>
/e̞/ [e̞ ø̞ ɤ̞ o̞] <e>
/a/ [a ɶ ɑ ɒ] <a>

/a˥ a˧ a˩/ <á a à>, which can be combined an indefinite amount of times on any syllable nucleus, although strings of more than three are uncommon.
/i e̞ a m ɱ ɲ ŋ ɬ ɮ/ Can be used as syllable nuclei.

I haven't really decided on the orthography for the clicks, but I'm also looking for something prettier for the rest.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Click »

Fissian v8:

m n̻ ŋ m n ŋ
p ᵐb t̻ ⁿd̻ c ⁿɟ k ᵑɡ p b t d ç z c g
s̻ ç ʝ x s x ḩ h
ɫ̻ ɽ l r

i iː ɨ ɨː u uː i í e é u ú
ə ə
a aː a á

aj aw ay av
wa ja
jaj jaw waw waj yay yav vav

Aynárə cúl nár.
[ɐj.ˈn̻ɑː.ɽə ˈkʷuːo̯ ˈn̻ɑːɽ]
ay-nár-ə cú-l nár
1SG-like-PRS3SG-ACC › like
I like it.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Xing »

Nemesis wrote:
The phoneme /ç/ may be considered an alophone of /h/ before /i/.
Some of the phonemic vowels presented may be considered alophones as ɘ and ʊ both alophones of unstressed /e/ and /u/ respectively.
You say that certain sounds "may be considered allophones" of other sounds. What would speak in favour of analysing them as allophones, and what would speak in favour of analysing them as phonemes?

Sometimes, phonemic analyses are controversial.

In a given languages, you need two things to generate the sounds:

(1) A list of fundamental building-blocks: phonemes.
(2) A set of rules describing phonological processes.

These two together generates (3) the surface sound system of the language.

The point is, that sometimes different (1)'s and (2)'s can yield the same (3).

For example, say that we have a language where all syllables are CV. Syllables may be either rounded/labialised, or unrounded/non-labialised. A labialised consonant is always followed by a rounded vowel, and a non-labialised consonant is always followed by an unrounded vowel

Suppose we have voiced, unvoiced and nasal stops, at labial, alveolar, palatal, and velar points of articulation. Suppose we have open, mid-open, mid-close and close vowels. The two following analyses would yield the same surface sounds:

(1)

p t c k
b d ɟ g
m n ɲ ŋ

ɨ ʉ
ɘ ɵ
ɜ ɞ
a ɒ

- And a rule saying that consonants are labialised before rounded vowels.

(2)

p t c k
b d ɟ g
m n ɲ ŋ
pʷ tʷ cʷ kʷ
bʷ dʷ ɟʷ gʷ
mʷ nʷ ɲʷ ŋʷ

ɨ
ɘ
ɜ
a

- And a rule saying that the vowel are rounded after labialised consonants.

This example is quite artificial. But the point holds - it is not always obvious whether two surface sounds (phones) should be analysed as separate phonemes, or as allophones of the same phoneme.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

Well, i was irritated, so I created this [:D]

Phonology

Code: Select all

 m	 n
 p 	t			 k
ᵐb	ⁿd			ᵑg
 b	 d			 g
	   s
   ʋ		ɻ	j		h
	   l

i~e	u~o
ɛ~æ	ɔ~ɒ
allophony
prenasalized stops can only occur at the beginning of a word
t becomes ʔ at the end of a word
s becomes ɕ before front vowels
ɻ gets ʐ before back rounded vowels
consonants except for j get labialized before rounded, back vowels
h lengthens vowels and disappears at the end of a word

romanization

Code: Select all

m	 n
p 	t			 k
mb	nd			ng
b	 d			 g
	  s
  v		z	y		h
	  l

i	u
e	o
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Irohuro »

Ιοζέιστης phonology
Phonology isn't something I have a full grasp of yet, and I'm not very good at explaining it yet, so sorry if some of it makes no sense [:x]

Consonants
Nasals: /m n ɲ ŋ/ <μ ν νι νκ>
Stops: /p b t d k g/ <π πβ τ δ κ γ>
Fricatives: /f v θ ð s z ʃ ʒ x/ <φ β θ θ σ/ς ζ ψ ζψ χ>
Affricates: /tʃ/ <τψ>
Approximants: /w j ʁ/ <υ ι ρ>
Laterals: /l/ <λ>

Vowels
/i y e ɛ ä ɔ o u/ <η ι ει ε α ω ο υ>

-before front vowels <θ> is /θ/, and /ð/ before central/back vowels, however it can be devoiced in the combination <θξ>
and similarly voiced in the combination <θθ>
-/ŋ/ cannot take place at the beginning of a word, and /ɲ/ cannot take place at the end
-/w/ is formed with <υ> followed by a vowel, the same going for /j/ and <ι> except when used in <ει> on a stressed syllable.
-stress is varying and marked with ΄ <ά έ ί ή ό ύ ώ> (it's also soon to be reworked, along with a few other things i'm not happy with)

one thing i'm not sure on is if I should use <θθ> to force voicing, i had at one point used <θυ>, but that felt like it conflicted with the conditions of <υ> being realized as /w/
another thing i'm thinking of changing is <νκ> i like it for the end of works, but it don't really think it makes sense in the center of words..
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Esmelthien »

Irohuro wrote:/ʃ/ <ψ>
You could use the sho. It looks nearly identical to the thorn.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Irohuro »

It's a language that isn't a direct relative of greek, but heavily influenced, being place around the area of the aegean islands. So I wanted it to be fitted into the standard greek alphabet of the time around koine~modern. sho was a letter introduced (from my understanding) into other languages who picked up the greek alphabet to use for writing.

also, i forgot to include /h/ <ξ>

with those constraints i tried to map phonemes to graphemes in what i thought would feel the most logical.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by CMunk »

Just a silly thought I had tonight:

Four phonemes with four allophones

Code: Select all

  /u a i ɤ/
1 [u a i ɤ] <u a i o>
2 [w ɹ j ɰ] <w r y q>
3 [b d ʤ g] <b d j g>
4 [p t ʧ k] <p t c k>
A word consists of one or more vowels. A word consisting of one vowel is naturally just that vowel. But as soon as there are two or more vowels, the rules of dissimilation kick in. Representing the segments with the numbers of their allophones the rules look like this:

1
41
421
4214
42124
421.321
421.3214
421.32124
4212.32124

If we only used the vowel /u/ for example the table would look like this:


[pu]
[pwu]
[pwup]
[pwuwp]
[pwubwu]
[pwubwup]
[pwubwuwp]
[pwuwbwuwp]

And if we continued the sequence /uaiɤ/ it would look like this:


[pa]
[pɹi]
[pɹik]
[pɹiɰp]
[pɹi.gwa]
[pɹi.gwaʧ]
[pɹi.gwajk]
[pɹiɰ.bɹiɰp]

It might need some fricatives and nasals though...
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by nmn »

I actually like this 4x4 thing
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

CMunk wrote:Just a silly thought I had tonight:

Four phonemes with four allophones

Code: Select all

  /u a i ɤ/
1 [u a i ɤ] <u a i o>
2 [w ɹ j ɰ] <w r y q>
3 [b d ʤ g] <b d j g>
4 [p t ʧ k] <p t c k>
I like this concept, I've thought about something similar before.
What about having words that look like 414?
Or adding things like final devoicing, voicing between consonants, and inital lenition? Nasals can only occur before stops maybe?

So with 5 as nasals and 6 as fricatives you could have

1
61
614
6154
62154
615.314
615.3154
6215.3154.
6215.32154

with the vowel /u/


[fu]
[fup]
[fump]
[fwump]
[fum.bup]
[fum.bump]
[fwum.bump]
[fwum.bwump]

with /uaiɤ/


[fa]
[faʧ]
[faɲk]
[fɹiŋp]
[faɲ.gut]
[faɲ.gunʧ]
[fɹiŋ.baɲk]
[fɹiŋ.bɹiŋp]

I see, nasal assimilation works against me. Any further suggestions?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by CMunk »

I like the initial fricatives and penultimate nasals! And I can see that some of Them might be hard to pronounce.

What about approximant- unv.stop for two different POAs (such as /-ua/ which would be [wt]) and nasal- unv.stop for the same POA (so /-aa/ would be [nt])?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Click »

I am again revising the Kaipói phonology.

I'll post only the phonemic inventory this time.

There are 11 phonemic consonants. They are as follows.

/m n̻ ŋ/ ‹m n g›
/p t̻ k ʔ/ ‹p t k x›
/s̻ x/ ‹s h›
/l̻ˁ ɽ/ ‹l r›

There are three phonemic monophthongs, not counting tone. They are as follows:

/à á ì í ò ó/ ‹a á i í o ó›

All falling diphthongs having the offglide higher than the syllabic vowel are permitted.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

CMunk wrote:What about approximant- unv.stop for two different POAs (such as /-ua/ which would be [wt]) and nasal- unv.stop for the same POA (so /-aa/ would be [nt])?
I like that idea [:)]
So it's going to be like that? (I'm not sure about the romanization of the nasasl ... What about making a conscript?)

Code: Select all

  /u a i ɤ/ (maybe we will call them radicals?)
1 [u a i ɤ] <u a i o>
2 [w ɹ j ɰ] <w r y q>
3 [b d ʤ g] <b d j g>
4 [p t ʧ k] <p t c k>
5 [m n ɲ ŋ] <m n ñ n̈ >
6 [f s ɕ x] <f s x h>
With the following set of rules:

1
61
614
6154 or 6214
62154 or 62124
615.314 or 621.314
615.3154 or 615.3214 or 621.3154 or 621.3214
6215.3154 or 621.32124 or 621.32154 or 6212.3154
6215.32154 or 6215.32124 or 6212.32154 or 6212.32124
CMunk wrote:approximant- unv.stop for two different POAs (such as /-ua/ which would be [wt]) and nasal- unv.stop for the same POA (so /-aa/ would be [nt])?
I guess I forgot something ...

OT: Have you ever thought about a similarly structured grammar?
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