What did you accomplish today?

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Khemehekis
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Khemehekis »

MissTerry wrote: 07 Aug 2022 18:09 Image

I'm back... with 4,500 new words added to Humrayan! Basha Humrayan now has 21,100 words!

I was given the complete (or nearly complete) Landau List which had around 11,000 entries in it, separated into categories.

What I first did was go through the Landau List an deleted all of the words that I already had in Humrayan. That was over 50%. I left a few words I already had, such as words for animals etc. The remaining words in the Landau List were words I did not have which talks about and describes the modern world.
Oh, that is so cool! So you already had words for orcas and chimps?
Using the Landau List made everything far easier, because all of the words are put together into categories, and so your brain stays focused in one category, as opposed to hopping around from random word to random word. It made the process of making new words quick and easy.
Yep, thematic lists are great! I use my own list when I conlang!
I numbered each word in the Landau List as I went along creating new Humrayan words, this way I know how many new words I had added. When I reached the final word of what was left of the Landau List, I found out I had exactly 4,500 new words, a well rounded number. It was fun to make the new words. I followed the example of ancient and modern Sanskrit when making new words up. Sanskrit words in a way function like Esperanto words, where each word is a "lego" piece, which you snap together to make new words.
Amazing that it just so happened to come out to exactly 4,500!

I'm guessing that the word for "orangutan" has something to do with the color orange, and the word for "polar bear" is cognate with "hiemal"? I particularly like your word for polar bear.

Also, I notice none of the "More People" words appeared in the new words list. Does that mean you already had words for "barista" and all the other people words?
So now, Humrayan has 21,100 words, which seems to make it the biggest Sanskrit-based conlang in the world! I'll update Humrayan's Frathwiki number later this afternoon.
Woo-hoo!

Beats out Mango, doesn't it? Being the biggest-lexiconed conlang in some category is a special distinction.
Special thanks to Khemehekis and his awesome Landau List!
You're very welcome. and it feels great to see my LCV being used!
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 80,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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MissTerry
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by MissTerry »

Amazingly I had a word for Chimpanzee already. I eliminated the word "Orca" from the list because I was going to append a suffix meaning "Big" to the new word "Dolphin" to mean an Orca, and so I left that word out to reduce unneeded redundancy.

Redundancy was also why I eliminated the words in the "More People" section, because I can easily append the suffix -tiya or -eka which are the agent suffixes [-er/-ist] to make most of those people words. Payiaadheka would be "Barista."

I didn't want to include those words which I can make by adding affixes to the word list, because I didn't want to inflate the conlang with "redundant" words. It makes the conlang feel like its puffing itself up I guess :)

You're right about the word Orangutan. "Narnza" means "Orange" in Humrayan and comes from the Sanskrit word "Naranga" meaning "Orange." Khapika/Kaphika means "Monkey."

You're also right about the Polar Bear. Hima in Humrayan means "Snow." Himan with the -n suffix makes it an adjective. So Polar Bear in Humrayan literally means a "Snow Bear." Himalaya in Humrayan means the same exact thing as it does in Sanskrit: Hima = Snow + Laya = Place.

And then Panda in Humrayan literally means "Bamboo Bear." Otter in Humrayan [Nirnayajha] comes from the Sanskrit word Niraja which means "Otter." Dolphin in Humrayan comes from the Sanskrit word "Shishumara" which means Dolphin.

Walrus in Humrayan literally means "Bladed Toother" or the One With Blades as Teeth. Mammoth in Humrayan literally means "Hairy Elephant" :)
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Omzinesý »

I updated my Dleesoop dictionary viewtopic.php?p=315538#p315538 quite dramatically. Now the language is starting to get its character. Words are derived and combined instead of just coming from nowhere.

I also saw that I should make explicit motion verbs and location verbs because they are good concrete roots for further derivations.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Khemehekis »

MissTerry wrote: 09 Aug 2022 16:05 Amazingly I had a word for Chimpanzee already.
[+1]
I eliminated the word "Orca" from the list because I was going to append a suffix meaning "Big" to the new word "Dolphin" to mean an Orca, and so I left that word out to reduce unneeded redundancy.

Redundancy was also why I eliminated the words in the "More People" section, because I can easily append the suffix -tiya or -eka which are the agent suffixes [-er/-ist] to make most of those people words. Payiaadheka would be "Barista."

I didn't want to include those words which I can make by adding affixes to the word list, because I didn't want to inflate the conlang with "redundant" words. It makes the conlang feel like its puffing itself up I guess :)
But what's wrong with those? Words formed by regular derivational morphology are usually separate entries in a dictionary. Derivational morphology certainly helped my Kankonian grow to 80,000 words. For instance, I include both almonas (smart, intelligent) and almonasos (intelligence). I include both haraishom (gibbon) and haraishomi (hylobatine), or both raku (carrot) and rakui (carroty), with dozens and dozens of -i adjectives for animal and edible plant nouns. I have many trios of -phobia, -phobic, and -phobe words made from Ciladian roots, such as taphtyuph (ailurophobia), taphtyuphi (ailurophobic), and taphtyuphis (ailurophobe). I have a demonym for every country name in the dictionary: Pnaikion (Pnaikion, a country on the planet Junsu), Pnaikionik (Pnaikionese). For every sapient species I have six entries: lef (lef), lefya (lefology), lefis (lefologist), nalefya (lefological), lefore (lefkind), lefar (lef nature).
You're right about the word Orangutan. "Narnza" means "Orange" in Humrayan and comes from the Sanskrit word "Naranga" meaning "Orange." Khapika/Kaphika means "Monkey."
Yeah, I was reminded of the Spanish word "naranja", and I knew that orangutans were orange. So khapika/kaphika is like the Hebrew "qaph"?
You're also right about the Polar Bear. Hima in Humrayan means "Snow." Himan with the -n suffix makes it an adjective. So Polar Bear in Humrayan literally means a "Snow Bear." Himalaya in Humrayan means the same exact thing as it does in Sanskrit: Hima = Snow + Laya = Place.
Woo-hoo! I'm on a roll!

And I never knew the etymology of "Himalaya" before! With the resemblance to the Latin "hiems", though, the etymology (of the first half of the word, at least), now looks obvious.
And then Panda in Humrayan literally means "Bamboo Bear." Otter in Humrayan [Nirnayajha] comes from the Sanskrit word Niraja which means "Otter." Dolphin in Humrayan comes from the Sanskrit word "Shishumara" which means Dolphin. Walrus in Humrayan literally means "Bladed Toother" or the One With Blades as Teeth. Mammoth in Humrayan literally means "Hairy Elephant" :)
[:D]
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 80,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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MissTerry
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by MissTerry »

Khemehekis wrote: 13 Aug 2022 00:27
But what's wrong with those? Words formed by regular derivational morphology are usually separate entries in a dictionary. Derivational morphology certainly helped my Kankonian grow to 80,000 words. For instance, I include both almonas (smart, intelligent) and almonasos (intelligence). I include both haraishom (gibbon) and haraishomi (hylobatine), or both raku (carrot) and rakui (carroty), with dozens and dozens of -i adjectives for animal and edible plant nouns. I have many trios of -phobia, -phobic, and -phobe words made from Ciladian roots, such as taphtyuph (ailurophobia), taphtyuphi (ailurophobic), and taphtyuphis (ailurophobe). I have a demonym for every country name in the dictionary: Pnaikion (Pnaikion, a country on the planet Junsu), Pnaikionik (Pnaikionese). For every sapient species I have six entries: lef (lef), lefya (lefology), lefis (lefologist), nalefya (lefological), lefore (lefkind), lefar (lef nature).
I was going to ask for your opinion on this matter actually. I'm not really sure what exactly constitutes a "word." I've been debating with myself about what exactly a word is. At the moment, for example, I think "Walk" is a word, but the lexemes "walks," "walking," and "walked" are just the same word "walk" with suffixes. And so, in that example case, I only would count "Walk" as one word, and I disregard the other derivatives and don't count them.

But when I debate with myself, I seem to lose the debate when I consider a word like "eat." If eat changes to "eating" and to "ate," then is "ate" a word? And if it is, then perhaps "eating" is a word also?

My original idea with Humrayan was to create a Sanskrit based conlang that works very much like Esperanto where I can take a base word or a root word and snap those together or add affixes to them and generate huge lists of new derivatives. The problem is that Humrayan is designed to generate a huge amount of such derivational morphologies. I can literally take one word or root and make a list of 30 new lexemes out of it. And so I figured to myself that it wouldn't be fair if I counted to derived lexemes as "words." And so I try to keep derivational lexemes to a minimal. Other wise Humrayan would grow huge very quickly by tens of thousands of new words in a few years.

Since you count derivational words as words, and your conlang grew huge from those derived words, maybe I can do the same?
So khapika/kaphika is like the Hebrew "qaph"?
Interestingly, the Hebrew word "Qaph" was borrowed from the Indic Sanskrit:

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6971.htm

Remember, there are no monkeys native or indigenous to ancient Israel or the Levant. And so the ancient Kingdom of Judah and other ancient civilizations around that region imported animals such as monkeys and peacocks via international trade from India. And so, you will find a few Sanskritic words in not only Hebrew but also ancient Egyptian as well.
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Reyzadren »

Khemehekis wrote: 13 Aug 2022 00:27But what's wrong with those? Words formed by regular derivational morphology are usually separate entries in a dictionary.
Because not all languages adhere to such concept. In that other natlang that I speak as well as my conlang, there is no such thing as "non-derivational vs derivational morphology", they are just the same thing, ie, "affixation". Similarly, that other natlang that I speak and my conlang never count affixations as separate entries in the dictionary, eventhough they are natlangly listed within the same word entry.

In the context of conlangs, however, I think the most important thing isn't to distinguish what's a word vs what isn't a word, but rather word vs word entry. If it counts according to the dictionary or conlanger, then it's totally valid imo.
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by MissTerry »

Reyzadren wrote: 14 Aug 2022 15:10 Similarly, that other natlang that I speak and my conlang never count affixations as separate entries in the dictionary, eventhough they are natlangly listed within the same word entry.

In the context of conlangs, however, I think the most important thing isn't to distinguish what's a word vs what isn't a word, but rather word vs word entry. If it counts according to the dictionary or conlanger, then it's totally valid imo.
I appreciate your insights. Seems like what gets included into a conlang dictionary/word-list is up to the conlang creator?
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

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^Well, in my case, no, because word entries are decided by The Great Dictionary ic and not me. My irl dictionary only mimics its principles [;)]
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Khemehekis »

MissTerry wrote: 13 Aug 2022 03:05 I was going to ask for your opinion on this matter actually. I'm not really sure what exactly constitutes a "word." I've been debating with myself about what exactly a word is. At the moment, for example, I think "Walk" is a word, but the lexemes "walks," "walking," and "walked" are just the same word "walk" with suffixes. And so, in that example case, I only would count "Walk" as one word, and I disregard the other derivatives and don't count them.
I agree. That's simple inflection -- not different words.
But when I debate with myself, I seem to lose the debate when I consider a word like "eat." If eat changes to "eating" and to "ate," then is "ate" a word? And if it is, then perhaps "eating" is a word also?
Many English-Foreign dictionaries (and virtually all monolingual English dictionaries) have a separate entry for "ate". But a separate entry for "eating"? Nope.
My original idea with Humrayan was to create a Sanskrit based conlang that works very much like Esperanto where I can take a base word or a root word and snap those together or add affixes to them and generate huge lists of new derivatives. The problem is that Humrayan is designed to generate a huge amount of such derivational morphologies. I can literally take one word or root and make a list of 30 new lexemes out of it. And so I figured to myself that it wouldn't be fair if I counted to derived lexemes as "words." And so I try to keep derivational lexemes to a minimal. Other wise Humrayan would grow huge very quickly by tens of thousands of new words in a few years.

Since you count derivational words as words, and your conlang grew huge from those derived words, maybe I can do the same?
Do you have any place "barista" is listed in your English-Humrayan or Humrayan-English dictionary? If you don't already, you might as well add it, so you (or other people marveling at your conlang) can look up "barista" and other English words. The only time you really shouldn't add a word is if it's (a) inflectional rather than derivational morphology (walk, walked, walking, walks; girlfriend, girlfriends, girlfriend's, girlfriends'); or (b) a sum-of-parts phrase translated by another sum-of-parts phrase. Sum-of-parts would be like "delicious salad", which isn't a lexeme, it's simply an adjective + noun that means that a salad is delicious and that you would almost certainly translate word-for-word into Humrayan. "Smart person" translated by "smart person" is also sum-of-parts; however, if you have a suppletive one-word noun that means "smart person" (like "genius"), or an idiomatic phrase that means smart person (like "smart cookie" or "bright light"), then those DO belong in your dictionary.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 80,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Khemehekis »

Yesterday, I looked for missing G-words in my 80,000-word English-Kankonian word list, and got 125 new words! Here are some of them:

bdreshmut: galantine
hakoad: gambrel roof
tanko: gang sign, gang signal (borrowed from Vikasko dialect)
gobaria: gang territory (gobar, gang + -ia, suffix for a place)
zhehia: gantry
braim trils: garden party (lit. "high garden")
zarami koremonizh: garden path sentence (lit. "twist sentence", and that's "twist" as in a twist ending)
khobod: gaskin (borrowed from some language from Schaza, which has horses)
portho: geek (who bites the heads off chickens, etc.)
emooss: geld (non-pregnant female animal)
tivnyed: geminal (made from Ciladian roots: tibh, to attach + nyed, pair)
narigan: gender-ender (narig, gender + -an, suffix for a grammatical form)
yawushumbroi: genetic fingerprint (portmanteau of yawuwan, DNA + shumbroi, fingerprint)
narigazhari: gender-normative (narig + azhar, to push + -i, adjective suffix)
efesh-as: gender reveal (efesh, baby + as, is, am, are; from the announcement "Efesh as malazi/makeke!", It's a girl/boy!)
pelsyu: geocline (made from Ciladian roots: pel, home + syu, change)
kanmab: geon (basic geometric shape recognized as part of an object) (made from Ciladian roots: kan, shape, form + mab, part)
shaumest: to get one's sexy on
dlatzkas: massicot, giallolino
hyemos: gift (special talent; gift from God)
zhint: gig (temporary job)
zhintpatel: gig economy (zhint + patel, system)
ksoisti: gimp (reinforced cord or fabric), guimpe
botaur: gib (castrated tomcat)
esh: grisaille (from the Ciladian word for grey)
zhluash or zluash: geat (spout through which metal runs into a mold)
trodvard: gladius (sword)
kwilkius: gladius (of a squid), pen
brozhio: glaive
vephdyuv: glasses (one's metaphorical lens for seeing the world) (from Ciladian bhephdyubh, made of bheph, world + dyubh: to see; to look (at); vision, sight, eyesight; to show)
dzholboptemis: global village (borrowing from Ampwanitz djolboptemis, from djolbos, world + ptemis, community)
mombankarg: glove compartment (momban, the singular of mombanes, belongings, stuff + karg, box)
kat-zadedi: gnomonic (from kat-zaded we, as the crow flies + -i)
yagelhatekfash: gnome (secretive international banker) (yagel, gold + hatek, to cart + -fash, agent noun suffix)
gotshudzhang: gochujang, red chili paste (Terran borrowing)
reprobang: reprobhang (Dumangian sauce made of fuzhian pepper, rice, barley malt, and vinegar) (borrowing from some language of Dumang)
teshyula: gold coffee
thothuezitzis or thothuez for short: to goldbrick (engage in personal activities while at work) (from thothu, cat + ezitzis, porn, after the meme that goldbrickers spend their time looking up cat porn at work)
bugyuldekh: golden ratio (borrowing from Ciladian: bugyul, center + dekh, number)
grushtshik: grushtshik (masa filled with cheese and shrimp) (inspired by grusha, masa)
grushtshopf: grushtshopf (masa filled with cheese and prawns) (also inspired by grusha)
isteukhs: gordonia, loblolly-bay (Gordonia lasianthus)
fkagmauks: Goyet dog
wainakhi*: grace note (wainakh, musical note + -i*, diminutive suffix)
topsei: grammatical, grammatically correct
metopsei: ungrammatical, grammatically incorrect (me-, negative prefix + topsei)
ostarrakorar: great book, classic (ostar, canon + rakor, great + -ar, suffix to indicate a way)
shkriz: greedmeister
mubore: Greek community (fraternity and sorority members) (mub, frat/sorority + -ore, suffix for a species/community, like "mankind")
shilukhetz: to greenline (shilu, access + khetz, easy)
navidzin: grindylow, grundylow
poopi: gravid (full of eggs)
zingo: grommet
ghigh: grot (back-formation from highighi, gross, disgusting, grody, grotty)
zushkh: to ground (connect an electrical device to the ground)
maukaf: ground sloth
halestemyul: group sex (hal-, prefix for all + estemyul, sex)
turghoer: growler (electrical device) (onomatopoeia)
gudaiks: mouthguard
zhraib: guaro (liquor from sugarcane juice)
puish*osoth: guava moth (Argyresthia eugeniella) (puish, guava + *osoth, moth)
smait: git gud (corruption of esmiyait, the imperative of the verb to learn)
pamadan adumbe: guest host (lit. "host pro tem")
korushpel: Categories (word game) (koru(ki), letter, character + shpel, category)
korushuyes: Guggenheim (variant of the word game Categories) (blend of korushpel + shuyes, across)
tzardis: guilty party (tzardu, guilt + -is, suffix for a person)
habaksh: guiro
vobit dom: gun nut (lit. "big gun")
shai*apia: gymnasium, gym (at a school) (shai*ap, ball + -ia)
psimirga: gymsuit, gymslip
gyoza: gyoza (Terran borrowing)
tripnoi: tripnoi (crescent-shaped dumpling of Dumang with shrimp, cilantro, and green onion) (presumably borrowed from some language of Dumang)

And an idiom:

retel ad kiul Leho: to gild the lily (lit. "to paint God white")
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 80,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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