Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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Shemtov
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Shemtov »

A phonemic inventory for a language I'm thinking of using in the world of Fuhe; I had a similiar language (in regards to in-world use; not to phonemes/morphosyntax) before that I scrapped, but I thought to bring the idea back:

/p pʰ ɓ t tʰ t' ɗ t͡s t͡sʰ t͡s' t͡ʃ t͡ʃʰ t͡ʃ' k kʰ k' ʔ/
/m mˤ n nˤ ɲ ɲˤ/
/ɸˤ θ s ɬ ɬˤ ʃ çˤ x ħ/
/r rˤ r̥ˤ/
/l lˤ/
/w j/

/i i: e e: o o: a a:/
/ai ao eo oi/

Not completely happy with the vowel system, thinking of dropping /e e: eo/.
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

The consonant inventory of Limestone 6.0:

Code: Select all

p   t   t͡ʃ k   ʔ
ɸ θ   s̠
             ɣ
    ɾ
w       j
/ɣ/ is oral, voiced, dorsal, and never labialised. Beyond that there are few limitations on its realisation with [ɰ ~ ɑ̯ ~ ɣ ~ ʀ ~ g ~ ɢ] amongst the possibilities. It becomes unvoiced in coda before an unvoiced segment, typically [x~X].

/θ/ is dental and the sibilant is backed, which is very different from the situation in Híí.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Nortaneous »

Central Ziwan:
/p b t d ts dz tʂ dʐ k g/
/f s ʂ x/
/m n̪ n ɳ ŋ/
/j w/

Clusters: C(j)(w)

Vowels: /a ə i u/ + nasality

/kwų̄twâ njə̄ tjì jwų́ɳwą̄ kwājə̄ tʂą̂mwą̄jə̨̄ játə̨́ || njwə̄tʂìjə játə̨́ twā kwâjə̄ pjə̨̂njə̄ kwų̄twâ/

Western Ziwan:
/p b̥ mb t d̥ nd ts d̥z̥ ndz tʃ d̥ʒ̥ ndʒ k g̥ ŋg q ɢ̥ ɴɢ/
/f θ s ʃ x χ/
/ʋ z ʒ ɣ ʁ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/j/

Clusters: Pf Ps + fs xs sf ʃf zʋ ʒʋ ɣʋ

Vowels: /a ɛ ɔ i ɨ u/ + /aj ɛj ɔj aw ɔw/
Finals: /j w/ + /m n ts/

Accents: high, falling

/kuntɔ̂ ndʒɛj tʃi júɣɔn kɔ̂j tʃâmɔj játɨn || dʒôwtʃi játɨn tɔ kɔ̂j pîndʒi kuntɔ̂/
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DV82LECM »

Nortaneous wrote: 21 Feb 2022 00:58 Central Ziwan:
/p b t d ts dz tʂ dʐ k g/
/f s ʂ x/
/m n̪ n ɳ ŋ/
/j w/

Clusters: C(j)(w)

Vowels: /a ə i u/ + nasality

/kwų̄twâ njə̄ tjì jwų́ɳwą̄ kwājə̄ tʂą̂mwą̄jə̨̄ játə̨́ || njwə̄tʂìjə játə̨́ twā kwâjə̄ pjə̨̂njə̄ kwų̄twâ/

Western Ziwan:
/p b̥ mb t d̥ nd ts d̥z̥ ndz tʃ d̥ʒ̥ ndʒ k g̥ ŋg q ɢ̥ ɴɢ/
/f θ s ʃ x χ/
/ʋ z ʒ ɣ ʁ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/j/

Clusters: Pf Ps + fs xs sf ʃf zʋ ʒʋ ɣʋ

Vowels: /a ɛ ɔ i ɨ u/ + /aj ɛj ɔj aw ɔw/
Finals: /j w/ + /m n ts/

Accents: high, falling

/kuntɔ̂ ndʒɛj tʃi júɣɔn kɔ̂j tʃâmɔj játɨn || dʒôwtʃi játɨn tɔ kɔ̂j pîndʒi kuntɔ̂/
I am curious, is one of the major differences between these two sister languages a matter of the region, C(w j), in one, being the equivalent of diphthongs in the other?

Basically, "C(w j)V = CV(w j)."
𖥑𖧨𖣫𖦺𖣦𖢋𖤼𖥃𖣔𖣋𖢅𖡹𖡨𖡶𖡦𖡧𖡚𖠨
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Nortaneous »

DV82LECM wrote: 21 Feb 2022 20:25 I am curious, is one of the major differences between these two sister languages a matter of the region, C(w j), in one, being the equivalent of diphthongs in the other?

Basically, "C(w j)V = CV(w j)."
Western /ɛj ɔw/ generally correspond to Central /jə wə/, but the other Western diphthongs (and coda consonants) are mostly from irregular reduction of common suffixes - Western /-j -m -ts/ correspond primarily to Central /-jə -mwa -tsɿ/, and /ɔw/ is primarily from loanwords, e.g. /tʃámxɔw/ < Rau ǂámkhob "carnival", /ʃatsbɔ̂w/ < Rau Shádabor or Narng /ʃatəbag/ < Qoa Kṣättəpaɔk "clan of the Metkor claimant and legendary bandit Kemerten".

Historically, this isn't metathesis - *e *o diphthongized in Western, whereas Central underwent a conspiracy of sound changes the end result of which is that it can be analyzed as having four underlying vowels instead of ten. (For example, /njwə̄ƭʂìjə/ is pronounced [ndʑōtʂʅ̀je].)
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý »

The language has two palatal affricates, a sibilant one and a spirant one. They alternate somehow.

p t t͡ç t͡ɕ k
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

I was reading something on tone circles in South America and started to wonder if there could be vowel circles or consonant circles. So in a tone circle, tones alternate in some context in a circular fashion. T1 becomes T2, T2 becomes T3, T3 becomes T4, T4 becomes T5 and T5 becomes T1.
A vowel example could be that in final position /a/ becomes [e], /e/ becomes [ i], /i/ becomes [ u ], /u/ becomes [o] and /o/ becomes [a].

An example would be the root /ka/. In isolation it would [ke]. But if you attach a suffix /te/, the resulting form would be [kati]. If you attach another suffix /mi/ you get [katemu]. And if you attach a suffix /su/ you get yet a different change with the form [katemiso]. And finally, a suffix /bo/ would get full circle [katemisuba].

/ka/ -> [ke]
/kate/ -> [kati]
/katemi/ -> [katemu]
/katemisu/ -> [katemiso]
/katemisubo/ -> [katemisuba]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DV82LECM »

Creyeditor wrote: 18 Mar 2022 15:31 I was reading something on tone circles in South America and started to wonder if there could be vowel circles or consonant circles. So in a tone circle, tones alternate in some context in a circular fashion. T1 becomes T2, T2 becomes T3, T3 becomes T4, T4 becomes T5 and T5 becomes T1.
A vowel example could be that in final position /a/ becomes [e], /e/ becomes [ i], /i/ becomes [ u ], /u/ becomes [o] and /o/ becomes [a].

An example would be the root /ka/. In isolation it would [ke]. But if you attach a suffix /te/, the resulting form would be [kati]. If you attach another suffix /mi/ you get [katemu]. And if you attach a suffix /su/ you get yet a different change with the form [katemiso]. And finally, a suffix /bo/ would get full circle [katemisuba].

/ka/ -> [ke]
/kate/ -> [kati]
/katemi/ -> [katemu]
/katemisu/ -> [katemiso]
/katemisubo/ -> [katemisuba]
Formulaic AND a phonetic one-for-one? Yes, please!
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

I am less sure how to have a consonant circle. I somehow can't think of a nice natural set of changes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Something very simple

Segav ['sɛ:gau] is its name.

p t͡s t k (ʔ*)
b d g
f s
v z
m n
l ɾ** j

*/ʔ/ appears only intervocally as a graded version of /t/ or /k/.
** /ɾ/ appears only before vowels and not word-initially.

open closed open closed
+stress +stress -stress -stress
/i:/ i: - i: -
/u:/ u: - u: -
/ɪ/ e: ɪ ɪ ɪ
/ʊ/ o: ʊ ʊ ʊ
/ɛ/ ɛ: ɛ ɛ ɛ
/ɔ/ ɔ: ɔ ɔ ɔ
/a/ a: a a a

Diphthongs
ai au
ɛi ɛu
ɔi ɔu
They can also be analyzed as V+j/v, but there are minimal pairs like tava [ta.va] and taua [tau.(w)a]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Shemtov »

Shemtov wrote: 16 Feb 2022 20:32 A phonemic inventory for a language I'm thinking of using in the world of Fuhe; I had a similiar language (in regards to in-world use; not to phonemes/morphosyntax) before that I scrapped, but I thought to bring the idea back:

/p pʰ ɓ t tʰ t' ɗ t͡s t͡sʰ t͡s t͡ʃ t͡ʃʰ t͡ʃ' k kʰ k' ʔ/
/m mˤ n nˤ ɲ ɲˤ/
/ɸˤ θ s ɬ ɬˤ ʃ çˤ x ħ/
/r rˤ r̥ˤ/
/l lˤ/
/w j/

/i i: e e: o o: a a:/
/ai ao eo oi/

Not completely happy with the vowel system, thinking of dropping /e e: eo/.
Second draft:
/p pʰ ɓ b t tʰ t' d t͡s t͡sʰ t͡s' d͜z t͜r̊' t͡ɬ' t͡ʃ t͡ʃʰ t͡ʃ' d͡ʒ k kʰ k k͡ç'' k͡xʷ' g ʔ/ <p ph b' b t th t' d c ch c' z rh' lh' ć ćh ć' ź k kh k' y' w' g '>
/m m̰ n n̰ ɲ ɲ̰/ <m m' n n' ń ń'>
/ θ s ɬ ʃ x h/ <þ s lh ś x h>
/r r̰ r̥ / <r r' rh>
/l l̰/ <l l'>
/w j/ <w y>

/i i: o o: a a:/ <i ī a ā o ō>
/ai ao oi/<ai ao oi>
/a:i a:o o:i/<āi āo āi>
/ai: ao: oi:/<aī aō oī >
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Shemtov »

Shemtov wrote: 20 Mar 2022 17:22
Shemtov wrote: 16 Feb 2022 20:32 A phonemic inventory for a language I'm thinking of using in the world of Fuhe; I had a similiar language (in regards to in-world use; not to phonemes/morphosyntax) before that I scrapped, but I thought to bring the idea back:

/p pʰ ɓ t tʰ t' ɗ t͡s t͡sʰ t͡s t͡ʃ t͡ʃʰ t͡ʃ' k kʰ k' ʔ/
/m mˤ n nˤ ɲ ɲˤ/
/ɸˤ θ s ɬ ɬˤ ʃ çˤ x ħ/
/r rˤ r̥ˤ/
/l lˤ/
/w j/

/i i: e e: o o: a a:/
/ai ao eo oi/

Not completely happy with the vowel system, thinking of dropping /e e: eo/.
Second draft:
/p pʰ ɓ b t tʰ t' d t͡s t͡sʰ t͡s' d͜z t͜r̊' t͡ɬ' t͡ʃ t͡ʃʰ t͡ʃ' d͡ʒ k kʰ k k͡ç'' k͡xʷ' g ʔ/ <p ph b' b t th t' d c ch c' z rh' lh' ć ćh ć' ź k kh k' y' w' g '>
/m m̰ n n̰ ɲ ɲ̰/ <m m' n n' ń ń'>
/ θ s ɬ ʃ x h/ <þ s lh ś x h>
/r r̰ r̥ / <r r' rh>
/l l̰/ <l l'>
/w j/ <w y>

/i i: o o: a a:/ <i ī a ā o ō>
/ai ao oi/<ai ao oi>
/a:i a:o o:i/<āi āo āi>
/ai: ao: oi:/<aī aō oī >
Two possible third drafts:
p pʰ ɓ b t tʰ t' d t͡s t͡sʰ t͡s' d͜z t͡ʃ t͡ʃʰ t͡ʃ' d͡ʒ ʄ k kʰ k g ɠʷ ʔ/ <p ph b' b t th t' d c ch c' z ć ćh ć' ź y' k kh k' g w' ʔ>
/m m̰ n n̰ ɲ ɲ̰/ <m m' n n' ń ń'>
/ θ s ʃ x h/ <þ s ś x h>
/r r̰ / <r r' >
/l l̰/ <l l'>
/w j/ <w y>

/i i: o o: a a:/ <i ī a ā o ō>
/ai ao oi/<ai ao oi>
/a:i a:o o:i/<āi āo āi>
/ai: ao: oi:/<aī aō oī >


Or
p pʰ ɓ b t tʰ t' d t͡s t͡sʰ t͡s' d͜z t͡ʃ t͡ʃʰ t͡ʃ' d͡ʒ k kʰ k g ʔ/ <p ph b' b t th t' d c ch c' z ć ćh ć' ź k kh k' g ' ʔ>
/m m̰ n n̰ ɲ ɲ̰/ <m m' n n' ń ń'>
/ θ s ʃ x h/ <þ s ś x h>
/r r̰ / <r r' >
/l l̰/ <l l'>
/w w̰ j j̰/ <w w' y y'>

/i i: o o: a a:/ <i ī a ā o ō>
/ai ao oi/<ai ao oi>
/a:i a:o o:i/<āi āo āi>
/ai: ao: oi:/<aī aō oī >

That is, I'm ejecting the idea of voiceless resonates, but I'm not sure if I want the glottalized equivalents of the semivowels to be fortified or to be just creaky voice versions, as per the other resonates. Thoughts?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

Creaky voiced approximants are totally fine [:)]
I was thinking about a mean interaction of syncope and metathesis (plus ʔ-epenthesis). The idea is that lexical roots are underlyingly bisyllabic with two open syllables CVCV. Underlyingly only CV syllables are allowed, on the surface there will be derived CVC syllables. How does this work? First, there is syncope. Every other vowel - counting from the left of a word - is deleted. This means that lexical roots have two forms depending on the presence or absence of a prefix. Consider the root /minu/ drink. In the non-prefixed form [min], the second vowel is deleted.

[min ti]
/minu/ /ti/
drink NEG
She does not drink.

If a monosyllabic prefix ku- is attached, the root occurs in a different form [mnu]. The first vowel is deleted and the second vowel stays.

[kumnu ti]
/ku/-/minu/ /ti/
we-drink NEG
We don't drink.

Now, why have I put a negation at the end of these examples? These examples show roots in phrase-medial position. In phrase-final position, metathesis applies and changes the order of the final vowel and consonant of a lexical root. This also triggers glottal stop epenthesis to avoid onsetless syllables. This means that the root /minu/ drink has another form [miʔun] when occuring phrase-finally. Note that syncope is blocked because it would create a tautosyllabic consonant cluster in *[miʔn], which is more complex than the allowed syllable structure CVC.

[miʔun]
/minu/
She drinks.

The blocking does not occur in the prefixed form though, because not syllable structure problems occur. The second vowel of the word, i.e. the first vowel of the root, can be deleted without creating a syllable more complex than CVC.

[kumʔun]
/ku/-/minum/
We drink.

This means that the root /minu/ has four different forms, depending on prosodic/phonological context alone [min], [mnu], [miʔun], and [mʔun]. The underlying form never actually occurs, but it needs to include at least the two unpredictable vowels and it does not need to include the glottal stop, because it is predictable. (Maybe an alternative analysis would use /miun/ as the underlying form, which is closer to the surface form.)

Here are some more examples, for aesthetics.

/maka/ eat
[mak], [mka], [maʔak], [mʔak]

/puku/ hit
[puk], [pku], [puʔuk], [pʔuk]

/tidu/ sleep
[tid], [tdu], [tiʔud], and [tʔud]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý »

p t k
f s θ ɬ x
v z ð l ɣ
m n

vowels
i ɨ u
ə ˤə
æ ɑ

Consonants are pharyngealized/backed when they precede a "back" vowel /ɨ u ˤə ɑ/.

Stress lies on the first non-central vowel.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý »

b d d͡ʒ g
m n ŋ
v z ɹ ʒ
l j w

i wi u
e we o
a wa

Phonotactics

CVX
Where X is /m n ŋ/ or /l/.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Something that got inspiration from Berber.

p t ts k q
f s r̥ h
v z r l j ɣ~ʁ
m n

i u
ə
æ ɑ

There is a vowel harmony between æ and ɑ. They cannot appear in one word.

r̥ is my new favorite sound.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander »

/p t c q/
/b~β d~ɾ ʝ ʁ/
/s/
/m n ɲ ɴ/
/ʎ ɫ/

Of these, the laterals, voiced stops/fricatives and dorsal nasals do not occur in word-initial position.

Coda consonants are restricted to the nasals, laterals and geminates (when word internal). When a nasal comes into contact with a stop it assimilates in POA, with the bilabial and coronal voiced obstruents being realised as stops while the dorsal voiced obstruents assimilate entirely, leaving the geminates /ɲː ɴː ʎː ɫː/.

In the initial syllables of roots or 'strong' affixes the following vowels are found in both long and short:

/i y u/
/e ə ɑ/

In non-initial root syllables only /ə i/ (subject to harmony) and an echo of the initial vowel are found, while in 'weak' affixes only feature the 'reduced' vowels /ə i/ (again subject to harmony). These vowels could be analysed as partly epenthetic as they are subject to deletion when a valid cluster would be formed and to prevent clusters in word-final position.

There is a front-back system of harmony, with vowels and dorsal consonants coming in front and back sets. 'Weak' affixes are notated with the vowels unwritten and the dorsal consonants are notated as /k ɣ ŋ l/. Compounded roots and 'strong' affixes are not subject to these harmony restrictions.

Code: Select all

FR  BK
c   q
ʝ   ʁ
ɲ   ɴ
ʎ   ɫ
i   ə
y   u
e   ɑ
Primary stress falls on the first full vowel of the word,

/tuːn/ 'man' + /ŋ/ 'agentive' → [ˈtuːnəɴ] 'the man'
/meːʝ/ 'girl' + /l/ 'dative' → [meːʝiʎ] 'to the girl'
/quɫ/ 'house' + /ɣn/ 'locative' → [ˈquɫːən] 'in the house'
/nyːβ/ 'big' + /piric/ 'berry' → [ˈnyːβiˌpiɾici] 'cherry'
/nɑː/ NEG + /piɾic/ 'berry' + /qəʁ/ 'carry' + /nɾ/ PROG + /m/ 1SG → [ˈnɑːpiɾiˌqːəʁəndəm] 'I'm not carrying berries'
/quɫ/ 'house' + /qɑʁɑm/ 'build' + /ɣs/ REP + /s/ 3 → [ˈquɫqɑˌʁɑɴːəsːə] 'they would build houses'
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Shemtov »

An inventory inspired by Hopi and Navajo mixed. Phonemes in parenthesis indicate I'm not sure if I want them in the language:

/p pʰ t̪ t̪ʰ t͡s t͡sʰ (t͡ɬ t͡ɬʰ) ʈ͡ʂ ʈ͡ʂʰ t͡ʃ t͡ʃʰ c cʰ k kʰ kʷ kʷʰ q qʰ (qʷ qʷʰ) ʔ/
/m n̪ ɳ ɲ ŋ/
/s ɬ ʂ ʃ x/
/l (ɭ)/
/ʋ ɹ̪ ɻ j w w̃ (ɰ)/

/i e ø ɨ ɵ o a/
/i: e: y: ɨ: ʉ: u: a:/

/˧ ˩ ˧˩/ The contour tone can only occur on long vowels.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Shemtov »

Shemtov wrote: 14 Jul 2022 05:53 An inventory inspired by Hopi and Navajo mixed. Phonemes in parenthesis indicate I'm not sure if I want them in the language:

/p pʰ t̪ t̪ʰ t͡s t͡sʰ (t͡ɬ t͡ɬʰ) ʈ͡ʂ ʈ͡ʂʰ t͡ʃ t͡ʃʰ c cʰ k kʰ kʷ kʷʰ q qʰ (qʷ qʷʰ) ʔ/
/m n̪ ɳ ɲ ŋ/
/s ɬ ʂ ʃ x/
/l (ɭ)/
/ʋ ɹ̪ ɻ j w w̃ (ɰ)/

/i e ø ɨ ɵ o a/
/i: e: y: ɨ: ʉ: u: a:/

/˧ ˩ ˧˩/ The contour tone can only occur on long vowels.
Thinking of changing the approximants /ʋ ɹ ɻ ɰ/ to voiced fricatives /v ð ʐ ɣ/.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
teotlxixtli
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by teotlxixtli »

On WALS online I see Eyak has neither bilabials nor nasals and Maxakalí has no fricatives nor nasals, so I have to wonder… what about a language with no bilabials or fricatives? I may have to revisit that idea
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