Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Vlürch wrote: 29 Sep 2019 18:35 /pˀ tˀ kˀ/ are [pʼ tʼ kʼ] word-initially and after voiceless consonants, [ɓ ɗ ɠ] after voiced consonants and [ʔ̚ɓ ʔ̚ɗ ʔ̚ɠ] intervocalically.
Love this.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

/m n/ m n
/p b t d k g/ p b t d k g
/f v s z ʃ ʒ x h/ f v s z š ž x h
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/ c j č ǰ
/l j w/ l y w
/r/ r

/i iː u uː e eː o oː a aː/ I ī u ū e ē o ō a ā
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Oniihek phonology: smol language I came up with because I can’t sleep

/n/ n
/t t͡ʃ k ʔ/ t c k ’
/s h/ s h
/r w/ r w

/a e i o/ a e i o
/ai/ ai

/a i o/ have long counterparts, written doubled
/ai/ is the long counterpart to /e/
/e/ is also the epenthetic vowel

CC clusters are common and largely unrestricted
’CC clusters are also permissible
→ nʔC rʔC wʔC clusters are formed when first C is a voiced continuant

Aesthetic:

on’weriirek
hwan’seriirek
o’htewer
aire’haat
iicrawek → iicrawkew
ckoorwak
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ņ/ñ/ny~ni~n ŋ/ŋ/nh
/p b t d k g ʔ/ p b t d k g ʼ/h/q
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ f v s z ç/š/sy~si~s ʒ/ž/zy~zi~z ķ/x/h ģ/ď/gh~dd~g
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/ c/c/c ż/ź/dz ŧ/č/ty~ti~t đ/x/dy~di~d
/l ʎ~ɟ~ʝ j~ʝ~ʑ ɰ~w~ɣʷ/ l y/j/y~ll~i j/y/j~ź~y w/w/gu~gw~w~u
/ɾ r/ r ŗ/ŕ/rr~r
/ɮ/ ź/ŀ/zl

/i ɯ u ʊ e ɤ o ə ɛ ʌ ɔ æ a~ɑ~ɐ ɒ/ i ï/û/ú u ö/õ/ù e/é/é ü/ã/ò o/ó/ó è/â/è é/e/e ä/ŭ/à ó/o/o æ a ò/ă/á
/Vː/ Vh/V̄/VV

This is Birdish updated. The first letter is Modern Standard, second is Central, and third is Coastal.
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

I’m wreaking havoc with Híí diachronics again, and here is my latest sketch for Middle Híí, the last common ancestor of Híí Proper and Húú.

Code: Select all

*m  *n
    *t  *ts *tł *tʃ *k  *kw *ʔ
        *s  *ł  *ʃ  *x  *xw *h
    *ð      *l  *j  *ɣ  *w

*a  *e  *i
is back, and though it largely merges with *j, there are also reflexes in dd in Húú.

I’ll post the latest version of Húú if it becomes anything more than a scribbled mess.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

/m n ŋ/ m n ŋ
/p b t̟ d̟ t̪ d̪ c ɟ k g ʔ/ p b ṭ ḍ t d ḱ ǵ k g '
/f v θ̟ ð̟ s̪ z̪ ʃ ʒ ʕ h/ f v ṣ ẓ s z ś ź ğ h
/l ʎ j ɥ ʟ ɰ w/ l ĺ y ẃ ł ý w
/r/ r

/i y ɨ u e ø ə o ɛ œ ɜ ʌ ɔ ɑ/ i ü ï u e ö ë o è ȍ ä ȅ ò a
/i u e o ɛ ɔ ɑ/ > /ɨ y ə ø ʌ œ ɜ/
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

/m n/ m n
/t t͡ʃ d͡ʒ k g ʔ/ t c j k g ’
/s/ s
/v r/ v r
/a e o/ a e o

Permissible clusters are nC vC rC ’C.
Permissible geminates are thus mm nn vv rr but all are underlyingly clusters.

Vowels can occur in hiatus ad nauseam.

A voicing contrast in dorsal occlusives!? Feels so wrong and yet so right...

t c k only occur in clusters word-medially.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Nortaneous »

DesEsseintes wrote: 02 Sep 2019 17:00
Zekoslav wrote: 02 Sep 2019 11:48 I'm not sure about this, but I seem to remember that no languages distinguishing a front and a central /a/ is precisely the reason why no separate symbols for the two exist in IPA. However, a language that does distinguish them may have been discovered since the invention of the IPA.
The Hamont dialect of Limburgish has previously been cited on this forum as a language that distinguishes front, central and back low vowels.
Also various dialects of English - some AmE has PRICE monophthongization but doesn't merge this with FATHER, giving [æ a ɑ] for TRAP, PRICE, FATHER; other AmE apparently has the TRAP-BATH split with [a] for BATH, so [æ a ɑ] for TRAP, BATH, FATHER.
DesEsseintes wrote: 11 Nov 2019 19:18 A voicing contrast in dorsal occlusives!? Feels so wrong and yet so right...
/p t k g/ is attested - mostly I think in Papuan where /b d/ are more prone to lenition, although some cases of this in PHOIBLE have mistranscribed /ɣ/.

The Rotokas consonant inventory is sometimes given as /p t k β ɾ g/. But /g/ is pretty rare in Rotokas. Buin is a clearer case. It's also been claimed for Mekeo, but many things have been claimed for Mekeo.

There's also /b t k g/, attested in Bwaidoka, but there are other stops - the full inventory is /b bʷ t k g kʷ/.

Speaking of Papuan languages, another thing you can do is lenite all non-glottal plosives except in ʔ_ N_, analyze the lenited forms as basic, and get a plosive inventory of /ʔ/. The consonants of Ontena Gadsup are /ʔ ɸ β s x m n r j/.
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Sequor
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Sequor »

Nortaneous wrote: 12 Nov 2019 19:55Ontena Gadsup
I... I-... I don't even.

I HAVE BEEN LIVING A LIE
hīc sunt linguificēs. hēr bēoþ tungemakeras.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by opipik »

Nortaneous wrote: 12 Nov 2019 19:55 There's also /b t k g/, attested in Bwaidoka, but there are other stops - the full inventory is /b bʷ t k g kʷ/.
The tables in the Organized Phonology Data papers aren't accurate - they often omit prenasalized stops and sometimes they contain even more glaring errors. Elsewhere in that paper it's stated that Bwaidoka has a /d/ as well (which isn't surprising, seeing as all other Austronesian languages in Milne Bay have /b t d k g/ or /p b t d k g/.
Onobasulu, on the other hand, has /b d k g/.
Buin seems to have /p t k g/, but I recall reading (in another source) that /g/ can be pronounced [ɣ].
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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

Some ideas for the smallest possible inventory for a Romlang while still looking and sounding normal. A couple of possible routes:

1. Dalmatian (15)
/p t k b d g m n f s l r/
/i u a/
Spoiler:
Dalmatian is already overloaded with /i u a/. The vowel breaking results were /ẹ ọ ę ǫ/ → /ai̯ au̯ i̯a u̯a/; unstressed vowels were either raised or lowered. The numbers one to ten: /i̯un dau̯ tri kutru sanki si̯as sipti u̯aptu nu di/.
2. Iberian (17)
/p t k β~b d~ð g m n s h l ɾ/
/i u e o a/
Spoiler:
The results or palatalisation were /s/ for most voiceless consonants (dz z dʒ → ts s ts → s) and /h/ for most voiced consonants (ts s tʃ → tʃ ʃ tʃ → x → h). Numbers one to ten are /uno duo tɾes ku̯atɾo hinke sei̯s sete oho nu̯eβe di̯ehe/.
3. Gallo-Romance (14)
/m n p t d k s v l ʁ/
/i ɛ o a/
Spoiler:
When /u/ fronted, /o/ was not raised even after /y/ merged with /i/. The first paragraph of the Wikipedia page on Dalmatian:

Dalmaçian oe Dalmatic (Dalmaçian: langa dalmata, dalmato; Italian: lingua dalmatica, dalmatico) es oen Lenva Romanç obsolett qui af se favlar eon ve reioena de Dalmaçia, eon Croaçia modern, e toetment austral eon Cattar eon Monteneir. Ve noemn indicatt oen trib de ves formaçioen linguistic, ves Dalmates. Ve diaveitt Rausan, ve diaveitt cu ploes de estudi, af esdr va lenva offiçial de ve Repuvlic de Rausa par mult de va histoeri medieval, estac el lentment af se sopplantar de lenvas altres.

/daːmaˈsan oː daːmaˈti (daːmaˈsan: laŋga dalmata, dalmatə; italiˈan: lingu̯a dalmatika dalmatikɔ) ɛː oː ˈlɛnva ʁoˈmans osoˈlɛt ki aː sɛ favˈlaː ɛː vɛ ʁiˈoːna dɛ daːˈmasa ɛː kʁoːˈasa moˈdɛː, ɛ toːˈmɛnt oːˈtʁaː ɛː kaˈtaː ɛː moːtɛˈnai̯. vɛ noːm indiˈkat oː tʁiː dɛ vɛː foːmaˈsoː lingisˈti, vɛː daːmaˈtɛː. vɛ diaˈvai̯t ʁai̯ˈsan, vɛ diaˈvai̯t ki ploː dɛ ɛːtiˈdi, aː ɛːd va ˈlɛnva ofiˈsaː dɛ vɛ ʁɛpiˈvli dɛ ʁai̯sa paː miːt dɛ va iːtoːˈʁi mɛdiɛˈvaː, ɛːˈta ɛː lɛntˈmɛnt aː sɛ soplanˈtaː dɛ lɛnˈvaː aːˈtʁɛː/
4. Southern Romance (17)
/m n p t k v d g f s l ɾ/
/i u e o a/
Spoiler:
Sample: /unu ɾuo tɾis battɾu kimbi sis seti ottu novi deki/
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Nortaneous »

Ser wrote: 12 Nov 2019 20:55
Nortaneous wrote: 12 Nov 2019 19:55Ontena Gadsup
I... I-... I don't even.

I HAVE BEEN LIVING A LIE
Papuan languages sometimes get like that. Kobon has a voicing contrast in affricates but not plosives - its full consonant inventory is:

Code: Select all

      tɕ
b d   dʑ g
ɸ s      x h
m n   ɲ  ŋ
  l   ʎ
w ɾ ɽ j
/x/ varies freely between [x kx kʰ], so there's that, but there's no way to get a /p t/ - the phones [p t] only exist at word edges:
b > p / #_
ɸ > p / _#
d > t / #_

And initial devoicing is optional.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

/b t ɟ g ʔ/ b t c g k
/ɸ s z ʒ ɣ h/ f s z x q h
/l ʎ j w/ l j y w
/r/ r

/i u e o a/ i u e o a

/m n ŋ/ ⟨m n ŋ⟩
/p b t d k g ʔ/ ⟨p b t d k g '⟩
/f v s z x ɣ h/ ⟨f v s z ĥ ǧ h⟩
/ʦ ʣ/ (c j⟩
/l j ɰ w/ ⟨l y ỹ w
/ɾ/ ⟨ř⟩
/r/ ⟨r⟩
/Cʲ/ ⟨ĭ⟩

/i y u ʊ e ø ə o ɛ ʌ ɔ a ɒ/ ⟨i ü u ŭ e ö ê o ĕ ô ŏ a å⟩
/Vː/ ⟨V̄⟩
I like this for Proto-Birdic, I tweaked it with some spellings used in modern Birdish.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

/p b t d k g q ɢ ʔ/ <p b t d k g q ǧ '>
/f v s z ʃ ʒ ç ʝ ɕ ʑ x ɣ h/ <f v s z š ž ś ź ṡ ż x ʒ h>
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ ʨ ʥ/ <ţ ḑ ť ď ṫ ḋ>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ñ ń>
/l ʎ j ɥ ɰ ɰ͝j w/ <l l̃ j y w̄ w̃ w>
/ɾ/<r>
/r/ <rr>
/ɮ͎ ʎ̝͎/ <ḷ ł>

/i ʉ u ʊ e ø ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ʌ ɔ a ɒ/ <i ü u ǜ e ö ë o ø è ö̀ ø̀ ë̀ ò a ä>
/Vː/ <◌̱>
Ancient Birdic.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco »

Here's a vowel system I've been using and I want thoughts about its naturalism and balance. I actually kinda like the system.

/i ɯ u/
/e ɤ o/
/a/
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Creyeditor
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

Looks very okay, it's basically a standard 5 vowel system plus back rounded vowels. I think some phonologists would use the IPA symbols for centrals vowels instead, but that does not really make a difference, I guess.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by shimobaatar »

Creyeditor wrote: 28 Dec 2019 18:43 Looks very okay, it's basically a standard 5 vowel system plus back rounded vowels. I think some phonologists would use the IPA symbols for centrals vowels instead, but that does not really make a difference, I guess.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco »

Creyeditor wrote: 28 Dec 2019 18:43 Looks very okay, it's basically a standard 5 vowel system plus back rounded vowels. I think some phonologists would use the IPA symbols for centrals vowels instead, but that does not really make a difference, I guess.
Thanks! My concern was with having the back vowels outnumbering the front vowels, which I know is unusual among natural languages.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

/m n ŋ ŋʲ~ɲ/ m n ŋ ń
/p b t d k g/ p b t d k g
/f v θ~ð s z x~h ɣ~w/ f v þ/ð s z h w
/l j/ l y
/r/ r

/i u ʊ e o ʌ a ɒ/ i u ü e o å a ô
Stress is marked with an acute accent.
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Spent what free time I had over the last two days toying with this Arabic-inspired phonology. I like many things about it, not least the romanisation. I want to come up with another romanisation that doesn’t disallow digraphs unlike this one.

/m n ŋ/ m n ṅ
/t t͡ɕ k q ʔ/ t ć k q ’
/b d d͡ʑ g ɢ/ b d j g c
/sˤ s ɕ x h/ ṣ s ś x h
/(β) zˤ z ʑ ɣ/ v ẓ z ź ġ
/θˤ ɬ ʟ̥/ þ ł ƛ
/ðˤ l ʟ/ đ l λ
/r j w/ r y w

The language probably has vowels, too.
Edit: Although I probably won’t spend much time developing this, I decided this phonology should be used in a mostly analytical isolang because that is the last thing it looks like it should be.
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