Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

The recent threads by Davush and VaptuantaDoi have been giving me ideas lately. Here’s a tiny phonology I like:

Code: Select all

p  k  ʔ
f  s  h
o  i  a
Fairly free phonotactics including the following:
p k can be geminated
f s can be syllabic, long or short
Long vowel chains are permitted with glide allophones of i o

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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

DesEsseintes wrote:
12 Jan 2020 11:34
The recent threads by Davush and VaptuantaDoi have been giving me ideas lately. Here’s a tiny phonology I like:

Code: Select all

p  k  ʔ
f  s  h
o  i  a
Fairly free phonotactics including the following:
p k can be geminated
f s can be syllabic, long or short
Long vowel chains are permitted with glide allophones of i o
Glad I was a source of ideas! The consonants look a bit like a Polynesian language minus the nasals... pretty similar to Luangiua without /m ŋ l/. The syllabic fricatives are cool in such a small inventory; they remind me of the fricated vowels in the Lakes Plain languages. Is there a diachronic explanation for the lack of /t/? It looks like there was the Hawai'ian shift of /t k/ → /k ʔ/, or maybe something more complicated.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos »

A vowel harmony system I've had in mind for some time, but never got around to using. It would probably feature in a language with Finno-Ugric or Turkic-style agglutination. It's specifically height harmony, which is very rare but attested in the world's languages.

High:
/i ə u/
/iə̯ iu̯ əi̯ əu̯ uə̯ ui̯/

Low:
/e a o/
/ea̯ eo̯ ae̯ ao̯ oa̯ oe̯/

The orthography would be pretty straightforward, just using the IPA vowel symbols, without the underbreve(?) on the diphthong offglides. However, /ə/ would be represented with <Ȧ ȧ>, at least officially; in practice it might be left off - if a word contained both <a> and <i>, for example, you'd know that <a> was /ə/. Except in the case of compounds, where harmony might be broken, but you'd be able to tell that from context. Context would probably usually differentiate minimal pairs like /kat/ <kat> and /kət/ <kȧt>, but the orthographic distinction might be useful there.

For suffixes that are realized as either high or low depending on the word they attach to, you could posit the following underspecified archiphonemes:

|I A U|
|IA IU AI AU UA UI|

Not sure what exactly the consonant inventory would be like.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

This looks very cool. I think for the consonants, you have several options. You could go for something Kordofanian, like Moro, which has height harmony. I think something Hungarian-like would also fit, since the geographically close Romanian has similar diphthongs. I would also love to see this combined with a Turkic-style consonant inventory.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

When you want to mix Icelandic and Mohawk and it doesn’t work and morphs into a monster:

Code: Select all

n̥ n
t         k    ʔ
θ ð  s z  x ɣ  h
ɬ l  r̥ r
       j    w

iː      uː
ɪ       
eː      oː
        ʌ
    aː
It’s probably because it’s 2:30am but I love these vowels.

I will go further and declare that - having edited this a few times - I love this entire inventory.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

I would be very interested in seeing its morphosyntax, even though it does not belong here.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

I just came up with a fourth Birdish dialect
Highland Birdish
It has a smaller phoneme inventory due to many sound changes from Standard
/m n ŋ/ m n ñ
/p b t d k g ʔ/ p b t d k g ʼ
/f s ʒ x/ f s j h
/ʦ ʧ/ z c
/l j w/ l j w
/ɾ/ r
/ɽˡ/ ḍ

The last consonant is supposed to be a retroflex lateral flap.

/i ɯ u ə ɛ ʌ ɔ a/ i y u ä e v o a

Alphabet order: Aa Bb Cc Dd Ḍḍ Ee Ff Gg Hh Ii Jj Kk Ll Mm Nn Ññ Oo Pp Rr Ss Tt Uu Vv Ww Yy Zz ʼ Ää
What do you all think this reminds you of?

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
13 Jan 2020 00:46
A vowel harmony system

High:
/i ə u/
/iə̯ iu̯ əi̯ əu̯ uə̯ ui̯/

Low:
/e a o/
/ea̯ eo̯ ae̯ ao̯ oa̯ oe̯/
Reminiscent of Chukchi.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by ɶʙ ɞʛ »

Some random Gleb phonologies:


/m n/
/p t ts k q/
/b d dz g ɢ/
/ɾ w/
/i ɛ a ɔ u/


/m n/
/p t ts k ?/
/b d dz/
/f v s z/
/j w/
/i ɯ u æ/
/ɛˤ ʌˤ ɔˤ aˤ/


/m n ɲ/
/p b t d ts dz tʃ dʒ k g q ɢ k͡p g͡b q͡p ɢ͡b/
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x χ h/
/ɾ l/
/i ɯ u æ a/

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by qwed117 »

Some thoughts based off of English, but not completely
/m n ŋʲ ɴ/
/b t d c~k ɟ~g/
/f~v s~z ɕ~ʑ x~ɣ/
/w ɹ~ɾ~ʁ l j/
/i ɪ e eæ̯/
/u ʊ o oɑ̯/
/ə/
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

This is what I’m currently playing with:

Code: Select all

p   t   c   tn  tł  ch  k
    t’  c’  tn’ tł’ ch’ k’      ’
    z   s       ł   sh  x       h
m           n   l   y   g   w
z c c’ tł tł’ ’ ł ch ch’ sh g are /θ t͡s t͡s’ t͡ɬ t͡ɬ’ ʔ ɬ t͡ʃ t͡ʃ’ ʃ ɣ/ respectively.

The vowels are /a e i u/.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

So I have been toying with a script for the first time in a long time (yes I will post it eventually), and have a phoneme inventory to go with it... but I feel like it is uninspired and need something to make it a bit more interesting or in any way be more than just, I don't know, existent.

Currently it is:
/m n~ŋ/ <m n ŋ>
/p~f t ts k~g/ <p f t z k g>
/s x~ɣ/ <s h ğ>
/w l/ <w l>

/a a: i i: o~u o:~u:/ <a ā i ī o u ō ū>

As for phonotactic stuff, I am thinking C(L)V(:)(K), where K is velars and L is /w l/.
There are a few allophone things here, as you can see:

o > u / {m, p, f, w}_
f > p / #_
{n k x} > {ŋ g ɣ} / _#

I do tend to like minimal consonant inventories, but this one just feels super BLAH to me. Maybe some consonant length or some interesting asymmetry or something might help out. What are common and easy to pronounce consonants to have phonemic length distinctions? Any other suggestions or comments?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

Ok
Birdish language group
Modern Standard Birdish
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ny/ñ ng
/p b t~t͝s d~d͝z c k g ʔ/ p b t/ṭ d/ḍ ć k ġ ʼ
/β s z ɕ ʑ ɣ h~x/ v s z ś ź g h
/ṯ͝ɕ ḏ͝ʑ/ c j
/l j w/ l y w
/ɽ/ r
/r~ʀ/ ṙ

/i yː ʊ e øː o əː æː ɑ/ i ü u e ö o ë ä a
Vowels can be long, which is written with a macron, umlaut vowels are always long as shown, and
/iː uː eː oː ɑː/ ī ū ē ō ā

Central Birdish
/m n ɲ/ m n ñ
/p b t d k g/ p b t d k g
/f v s z ʃ ʒ x~h/ f v s z š ž h
/t͝s d͝z t͝ʃ d͝ʒ/ c dz č dž
/l j/ l j
/r/ r

/i y u e ø o æ a/ i ü u e ö o ä a

Coastal Birdish
/m n/ m n
/p t k ʔ/ p t k ʼ
/f s x h/ f s x h
/t͝s t͝ʃ/ c q
/l j w/ l y w
/r/ r

/i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ i u é ó e o a

Highland Birdish
/m n/ m n
/b t d k/ b t d k
/ɸ β f s z ʃ ʒ x ɣ ʕʷ~wˤ/ p v f s z ś ź h g w
/t͝s d͝z c͝ʃ ɟ͝ʒ/ c ʒ ć ʒ́
/l j/ l j
/r/ r

/i y e o œ̃ ɔ̃ ɑ ɑ̃/ i u e o û ô a â
Hill Tribe Birdish
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ny ng
/p b t d k g ʔ/ p b t d k g '
/f s z ʃ ʒ x h/ f s z sy zy kh h
/t͝ʃ d͝ʒ/ c j
/l ʎ j w/ l ly y w
/r/ r

/i u e œ ɤ o ə ɛ ɜ ʌ ɔ a/ i u é ö ō ó e è ë o ò a

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý »

A lang with a small phoneme inventory and a simple phonotactics but very polysynthetic words.

p t k ʔ
s x
z ɣ
m n
l

i u
e o
ä

Phonotactics
(C)V

Maybe some kind of a pitch accent or rather a word-intonation system (á Swedish or Japanese).

kǎkakǎ (rising tone on the first syllable, rising tone on the last syllable)
kâkakâ (lowering tone the first syllable, lowering tone on the last syllable)
kakǎkâ, kaka᷈ ([if multisyllabic word] rising tone on the second syllable, lowering tone on the third syllable; [if bisyllabic word] rising-lowering tone one the second syllable)
kakàka (low tone on the second syllable)
kákàka (high tone on the first syllable, low tone on the second syllable)
Last edited by Omzinesý on 02 Apr 2020 13:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

A protolanguage
/m/ m
/t k/ t k
/s~h/ s~h
/l j w/ l y w

/i u o a/ i u o a
Alphabet order: Aa Hh Ii Kk Ll Mm Oo Ss Tt Uu Ww Yy
This one is designed to be used with Kana systems.
2 descendants
/m n/ m n
/p t c k/ p t č k
/f s ç x h/ f s x g h
/ts tʃ/ c j
/l ʎ j w/ l ł y w
/r/ r

/i u ø o a/ i u ö o a
Alphabet order: Aa Cc Čč Ff Gg Hh Ii Jj Kk Ll Łł Mm Nn Oo Pp Rr Ss Tt Uu Ww Yy Öö

/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ q
/p b t d k g/ p b t d k g
/f v s z ɕ ʑ ɣ ħ ɦ/ f v s z š ž ǥ ẋ h
/ts dz tɕ dʑ kx/ c ç č j x
/l j w/ l y w
/r ʀ/ r r̈

/i u e o æ a/ i u e o ę a
Alphabet order: Aa Bb Cc Čč Çç Dd Ee Ęę Ff Gg Ǥǥ Hh Xx Ẋẋ Ii Jj Kk Ll Mm Nn Ññ Qq Oo Pp Rr R̈r̈ Ss Šš Tt Uu Vv Ww Yy Zz Žž

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
28 Mar 2020 11:45
So I have been toying with a script for the first time in a long time (yes I will post it eventually), and have a phoneme inventory to go with it... but I feel like it is uninspired and need something to make it a bit more interesting or in any way be more than just, I don't know, existent.

Currently it is:
/m n~ŋ/ <m n ŋ>
/p~f t ts k~g/ <p f t z k g>
/s x~ɣ/ <s h ğ>
/w l/ <w l>

/a a: i i: o~u o:~u:/ <a ā i ī o u ō ū>

As for phonotactic stuff, I am thinking C(L)V(:)(K), where K is velars and L is /w l/.
There are a few allophone things here, as you can see:

o > u / {m, p, f, w}_
f > p / #_
{n k x} > {ŋ g ɣ} / _#

I do tend to like minimal consonant inventories, but this one just feels super BLAH to me. Maybe some consonant length or some interesting asymmetry or something might help out. What are common and easy to pronounce consonants to have phonemic length distinctions? Any other suggestions or comments?
So, if you want to introduce consonant length, you could have it only on plosives (including the affricate if you want). The /k/ geminate could also be different in that it shortens instead of leniting wordfinally. Also, just for me, another way of looking at the inventory is the following.

/m n/ <m n ŋ>
/t ts k/ <p f t z k g>
/f s x/ <s h ğ>
/w l/ <w l>

/a a: i i: o o:/ <a ā i ī o u ō ū>

o > u / {m, p, f, w}_
f > p / #_
{n k x} > {ŋ g ɣ} / _#

Which looks much nicer to me, even without geminate plosives.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander »

/p t̼ t t͡ʃ k/
/β β̼ ð j ɣ/
/m n̼ n ɲ ŋ/
/l/

/i e a o u/

Syllable structure is (C)V, with vowel-initial syllables being only found word-initially.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

A simple phonology I was thinking about:

Segments:
/m/, /n/, [ŋ] (=N)
/p/, /b/, /t/, /d/, /k/, /g/, [ʔ] (+/f/=P)
/ts/
/f/, /s/
/r/, /j/(=R)

/i/, [iː], /u/, [uː]
/a/, [aː] /o/, [oː], /ɔ/, [ɔː]

Phonotactics:
A content word usually consists of two syllable. Some rare words might have three or four syllables. Function words mostly are monosyllabic. A syllable has to start with a consonant. Any simple consonant can start a syllable. Onet clusters consist of a plosive or /f/ plus /r/ or /j/. A coda can only be a nasal consonant. This means there are two possible syllable structure. This also means that word medial consonant clusters can consist of up to three consonants.
CV(/n/)
PRV(/n/)

Phonological Processes:
Onsetless word initial syllable trigger insertion of [ʔ] in that position.
Nasal coda consonants become velar [ŋ] word finally. Word internally nasal coda consonants assimilate in place to a following consonant. Coda nasals harden to voiced plosives if they are resyllabified into a complex onset.
Vowels in open penultimate syllables are lengthened.
∅→[ʔ]/#_V
/n/→[ŋ]/_#
/n/→[αPLACE]/_C[αPLACE]
/m, n/→/b, d/V_RV
/V/→[Vː]/_PRV(ŋ)#
/V/→[Vː]/_CV(ŋ)#

Examples words
Spoiler:
Awkwords:
V=a*3/i*4/u/o*5/ɔ*2
C=N*/P*5/ts*4/F*2/R*3
N=m*2/n
P=p/b*4/t*5/d*6/k*3/g*2
R=f/s*2
S=CV*4/PRV*2/CVN*3/PRVN
W=S*4/SS*8/SSS*2/SSSS



tintsɔ
gjɔn [gjɔŋ]
trankri [traŋkri]
sinron [sidroŋ]
rotso [roːtso]
tason [taːsoŋ]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Ser »

Language: Naalath

Phonemic inventory and spelling

/p~ɸ b~β t~θ d~ð k~x g~ɣ/ <p(h) b(h) t(h) d(h) k(h) g(h)>
/m n ʃ h w r~ɾ l j/ <m n sh h w r l j>
/ɪ ə a ʊ/ <i e a u>
/i: e: a: o: u:/ <ii ei aa ou uu>
/ɪw aw əj aj ʊj/ <iw aw ey ay uy>

The plosive allophones of the first row are used in the onset of the first syllable, and the fricative allophones elsewhere. /to:t/ [to:θ]. The trill is used in the first onset and word-finally before a consonant or a pause, and the flap is used elsewhere (always intervocalically). /rajɪr an/ [ˈrajɪɾ an], /bʊrʊr təj/ [ˈbʊɾʊr təj].

The fricative allophones of the stops are reflected in the orthography. /to:t/ [to:θ] <touth>.



Phonotactics

/ə əj/ only appear in unstressed syllables. Long vowels only appear in initial (root) syllables.

Syllable structure, initial syllables: (ʃ)(C)(l)V
Syllable structure, medial syllables: CV
Syllable structure, final syllables: CV(C)

Initial clusters (P = voiceless stops, B = voiced stops): Pl Bl ʃP ʃPl ml ʃml ʃn
Final consonants: /t k n ʃ r l/ [θ x n ʃ r l]

Words consist of: root + derivational suffixes + inflectional suffixes

Root structure: (ʃ)(C)(l)V(C)(V)(C)
Derivational suffix structure: VC
Inflectional suffix structure: (V)(C)

Word stress is always initial, on the root.



Morphophonology

Suffix /-j/ and /-w/ appear in inflections, and affect word-final vowels thus:
/ɪ ə a ʊ/ + /j/ = /i: əj aj ʊj/
/ɪ ə a ʊ/ + /w/ = /ɪw o: aw u:/
If attached to a word-final consonant, it behaves as if it was after /ə/.

There is a further inflectional suffix, historically /-a/, that affects word-final vowels thus:
/ɪ ə a ʊ/ -> /e: e: a: o:/

Monosyllabic prepositions and conjunctions ending in a vowel trigger lenition in a following initial stop, unless the stop is followed by /l/:
/palɪt/ [ˈpalɪθ] ~ /bʊ palɪt/ [bʊ ˈɸalɪθ]
/klenər/ [ˈkle:nər] ~ /mɪ klenər/ [mɪ ˈkle:nər]



Sample

Yeishen weli kathinun shnay ruluu a phoume gu raayisu shawkhin.
/je:ʃən wəlɪ katɪnʊn ʃnaj rʊlu: a po:mə gʊ ra:jɪsʊ ʃawkɪn/
[ˈje:ʃən wəlɪ ˈkaθɪnʊn ˈʃnaj ˈrʊlu: a ˈɸo:mə gʊ ˈra:jɪsʊ ˈʃawxɪn]

Benu tadhinan shtluurakh in tananath maayiwer lishi me halibha mliwthuy.
/bənʊ tadɪnan ʃtlu:rak ɪn tananat ma:jɪwər lɪʃɪ mə halɪba mlɪwtʊj/
[bənʊ ˈtaðɪnan ˈʃtlu:ɾax ɪn ˈtananaθ ˈma:jɪwər lɪʃɪ mə ˈhalɪβa ˈmlɪwθʊj]

Taywa niilukhish pi theimay gith a runou nakhaa mi raashithei koun.
/tajwa ni:lʊkɪʃ pɪ te:maj gɪt a rʊno: naka: mɪ ra:ʃɪte: ko:n/
[ˈtajwa ˈni:lʊxɪʃ pɪ ˈθe:maj ˈgɪθ a ˈrʊno: ˈnaxa: mɪ ˈra:ʃɪθe: ˈko:n]
hīc sunt linguificēs. hēr bēoþ tungemakeras.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch »

Somewhat influenced by Ser's post above...

/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ny ng>
/p~ɓ t~ɗ c~ʄ k~ɠ ʔ/ <b d j g q>
/pʰ~pʼ tʰ~tʼ cʰ~cʼ kʰ~kʼ/ <p t c k>
/s ʃ/ <s x>
/β~f ð~θ j~(◌̟)ç ɣ~(◌̹)ʍ ɦ/ <v z y w h>
/r l/ <r l>

/ɑ e i o u/ <a e i o u>
/ɑː eː iː oː uː/ <ā ē ī ō ū>
/(ʔ)ɑˀː(ʔ) (ʔ)eˀː(ʔ) (ʔ)iˀː(ʔ) (ʔ)oˀː(ʔ) (ʔ)uˀː(ʔ)/ <ả ẻ ỉ ỏ ủ>
Short epenthetic vowels may be added to break up clusters, usually [ə̆].

<b d j g> are [ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ] in contact with glottalised vowels or a glottal stop, [p t c k] elsewhere
<p t c k> are [pʼ tʼ cʼ kʼ] in contact with glottalised vowels or a glottal stop and word-finally, [pʰ tʰ cʰ kʰ] elsewhere
<v z y w> are [f θ (◌̟)ç (◌̹)ʍ] word-finally and before voiceless consonants, [β ð j ɣ] elsewhere

kavtoy gẻha pexbolỏ ỉny arngcik urūzaw [kʰɑftɵ̞ç ɠɜˀːɦɑ pʰe̞ʃpo̞ɫ̪ɔˀːʔ̚ ʔɪˀːɲ ɑrə̆ŋʲcʰikʼ uɾuːðɒʍ]

Also, a pretty weird vowel inventory that's somewhat similar to the above:

a e i o u /a̠ e̞ i o̞ u/
á é í ó ú /ʌ̘ ɤ̘ ɯ̘ o̘ u̘/
à è ì ò ù /ɑ̙ ɛ̙ ɪ̙ ɔ̙ ʊ̙/
aa ee ii oo uu /a̠ː e̞ː iː o̞ː uː/
áá éé íí óó úú /ʌ̘ʱː ɤ̘ʱː ɯ̘ʱː o̘ʱː u̘ʱː/
àà èè ìì òò ùù /ɑ̙͊ː ɛ̙͊ː ɪ̙͊ː ɔ̙͊ː ʊ̙͊ː/

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