Yay or Nay?

A forum for all topics related to constructed languages
Post Reply
User avatar
Ahzoh
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4191
Joined: 20 Oct 2013 02:57
Location: Canada

Yay or Nay?

Post by Ahzoh »

Edit: (Original thread description:)
I thought that we should have a thread where we can submit ideas for our respective conlangs which we are not sure about, for others to judge or give their opinion on.

Yay or nay,

Vrkhazhian should have ejective fricatives (that, like all fricatives, tend to affricate word-initially)?

The inventory would look like this:
https://www.frathwiki.com/Vrkhazhian#Consonants

Edit: Split from the first Yay or Nay? thread. -Aevas, 2020-05-08
Image Śād Warḫallun (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 10373
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: UTC-04:00

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar »

I'd vote no.
User avatar
Omzinesý
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4080
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Omzinesý »

Ahzoh wrote: 03 Jan 2019 02:21 Yay or nay,

Vrkhazhian should have ejective fricatives (that, like all fricatives, tend to affricate word-initially)?

The inventory would look like this:
https://www.frathwiki.com/Vrkhazhian#Consonants
Maybe it could have ejective fricatives as roducts of some morpho-phonological processes, but not on the lexical level.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
User avatar
Ahzoh
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4191
Joined: 20 Oct 2013 02:57
Location: Canada

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ahzoh »

Omzinesý wrote: 09 Jan 2019 19:25 Maybe it could have ejective fricatives as roducts of some morpho-phonological processes, but not on the lexical level.
Such as?
Image Śād Warḫallun (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
User avatar
Omzinesý
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4080
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Omzinesý »

Ahzoh wrote: 10 Jan 2019 01:51
Omzinesý wrote: 09 Jan 2019 19:25 Maybe it could have ejective fricatives as roducts of some morpho-phonological processes, but not on the lexical level.
Such as?
I have no idea of your language's phonology, but generally, say there is a prefix ending in a glottal stop and a stem starting in a sibilant, they can realize as an ejective sibilant.
/ʔ/ + /s/ => [s']
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 10373
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: UTC-04:00

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar »

Omzinesý wrote: 10 Jan 2019 12:43
Ahzoh wrote: 10 Jan 2019 01:51
Omzinesý wrote: 09 Jan 2019 19:25 Maybe it could have ejective fricatives as roducts of some morpho-phonological processes, but not on the lexical level.
Such as?
I have no idea of your language's phonology, but generally, say there is a prefix ending in a glottal stop and a stem starting in a sibilant, they can realize as an ejective sibilant.
/ʔ/ + /s/ => [s']
There's some information on the phonology on the page Ahzoh linked to.
User avatar
gestaltist
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1617
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 11:23

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by gestaltist »

shimobaatar wrote: 10 Jan 2019 13:29
Omzinesý wrote: 10 Jan 2019 12:43
Ahzoh wrote: 10 Jan 2019 01:51
Omzinesý wrote: 09 Jan 2019 19:25 Maybe it could have ejective fricatives as roducts of some morpho-phonological processes, but not on the lexical level.
Such as?
I have no idea of your language's phonology, but generally, say there is a prefix ending in a glottal stop and a stem starting in a sibilant, they can realize as an ejective sibilant.
/ʔ/ + /s/ => [s']
There's some information on the phonology on the page Ahzoh linked to.
And providing it (or the relevant parts) would've constituted basic courtesy when they asked the question...
shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 10373
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: UTC-04:00

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar »

gestaltist wrote: 10 Jan 2019 15:20
shimobaatar wrote: 10 Jan 2019 13:29
Omzinesý wrote: 10 Jan 2019 12:43
Ahzoh wrote: 10 Jan 2019 01:51
Omzinesý wrote: 09 Jan 2019 19:25 Maybe it could have ejective fricatives as roducts of some morpho-phonological processes, but not on the lexical level.
Such as?
I have no idea of your language's phonology, but generally, say there is a prefix ending in a glottal stop and a stem starting in a sibilant, they can realize as an ejective sibilant.
/ʔ/ + /s/ => [s']
There's some information on the phonology on the page Ahzoh linked to.
And providing it (or the relevant parts) would've constituted basic courtesy when they asked the question...
Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’ve said, but Ahzoh did provide that link with the original question on the previous page of this thread.
User avatar
Ahzoh
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4191
Joined: 20 Oct 2013 02:57
Location: Canada

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ahzoh »

Yes, I did indeed provide a link to the phonology on the original question post. The syllable structure/phonotactics would also be there.
Image Śād Warḫallun (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
User avatar
gestaltist
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1617
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 11:23

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by gestaltist »

My bad then
clawgrip
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2257
Joined: 24 Jun 2012 07:33
Location: Tokyo

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by clawgrip »

I have two language families that occupy the same geographical area in a conworld. Although they are not related, for some reason or another they both form the passive voice through reduplication of the initial syllable of the stem. This was not actually planned, as I think I unconsciously reused the same idea in both languages before I even decided they were going to be in the same location. Examples from two languages from the two different families:

Nandut: pām "he writes" ; bapām "it is written"
Uyendur: ganur "he writes" ; gegnur "it is written"

It was an accident, but I kind of like how they share this unusual feature. Anyway, for various reasons, I have decided it is necessary for there to be a third language or language family that is not related to either of them, in the same location. This language family will not be as prominent and will be an isolate or very small family, one or two languages.

The question is, should I give this language the reduplicated passive as well, as some sort of weird areal thing, or should it just be something unrelated?
felipesnark
sinic
sinic
Posts: 413
Joined: 27 Jan 2013 02:12
Contact:

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by felipesnark »

clawgrip wrote: 09 Jun 2019 14:14 I have two language families that occupy the same geographical area in a conworld. Although they are not related, for some reason or another they both form the passive voice through reduplication of the initial syllable of the stem. This was not actually planned, as I think I unconsciously reused the same idea in both languages before I even decided they were going to be in the same location. Examples from two languages from the two different families:

Nandut: pām "he writes" ; bapām "it is written"
Uyendur: ganur "he writes" ; gegnur "it is written"

It was an accident, but I kind of like how they share this unusual feature. Anyway, for various reasons, I have decided it is necessary for there to be a third language or language family that is not related to either of them, in the same location. This language family will not be as prominent and will be an isolate or very small family, one or two languages.

The question is, should I give this language the reduplicated passive as well, as some sort of weird areal thing, or should it just be something unrelated?
I say 'yay', as an areal feature!
Visit my website for my blogs and information on my conlangs: http://grwilliams.net/ It's a work in progress!
shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 10373
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: UTC-04:00

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar »

felipesnark wrote: 09 Jun 2019 14:52
clawgrip wrote: 09 Jun 2019 14:14 I have two language families that occupy the same geographical area in a conworld. Although they are not related, for some reason or another they both form the passive voice through reduplication of the initial syllable of the stem. This was not actually planned, as I think I unconsciously reused the same idea in both languages before I even decided they were going to be in the same location. Examples from two languages from the two different families:

Nandut: pām "he writes" ; bapām "it is written"
Uyendur: ganur "he writes" ; gegnur "it is written"

It was an accident, but I kind of like how they share this unusual feature. Anyway, for various reasons, I have decided it is necessary for there to be a third language or language family that is not related to either of them, in the same location. This language family will not be as prominent and will be an isolate or very small family, one or two languages.

The question is, should I give this language the reduplicated passive as well, as some sort of weird areal thing, or should it just be something unrelated?
I say 'yay', as an areal feature!
[+1]
User avatar
DesEsseintes
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4331
Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by DesEsseintes »

Yay here too.
clawgrip
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2257
Joined: 24 Jun 2012 07:33
Location: Tokyo

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by clawgrip »

Looks like it's a go, then.

I have been away from here too long. It's nice to see responses from familiar names. Thanks, everyone.
Ælfwine
roman
roman
Posts: 940
Joined: 21 Sep 2015 01:28
Location: New Jersey

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ælfwine »

Yay or Nay: Crimean Gothic shall have front rounded vowels /ø/ and /y/ from PGmc *eu and *iu respectively.

I'm not sold on having front rounded vowels. Greek and Slavic influence suggests against them, but Crimean Tatar suggests for it. There is also no evidence for front rounded vowels in the corpus (but that doesn't mean CG may not have had it.) Still, I like the faux German look on the romanization (although this will obviously not apply to Cyrillic.)
My Blog

A-posteriori, alternative history nerd
User avatar
Zekoslav
sinic
sinic
Posts: 340
Joined: 07 Oct 2017 16:54

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Zekoslav »

When did the Crimean Tatars arrive in Crimea?
Languages:
:hrv: [:D], :bih: :srb: [;)], :eng: [:D], :fra: [:|], :lat: [:(], :deu: [:'(]

A linguistics enthusiast who occasionally frequents the CBB.

- Guide to Slavic accentuation
shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 10373
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: UTC-04:00

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar »

Ælfwine wrote: 12 Jun 2019 03:50 Yay or Nay: Crimean Gothic shall have front rounded vowels /ø/ and /y/ from PGmc *eu and *iu respectively.

I'm not sold on having front rounded vowels. Greek and Slavic influence suggests against them, but Crimean Tatar suggests for it. There is also no evidence for front rounded vowels in the corpus (but that doesn't mean CG may not have had it.) Still, I like the faux German look on the romanization (although this will obviously not apply to Cyrillic.)
Nay.
Ælfwine
roman
roman
Posts: 940
Joined: 21 Sep 2015 01:28
Location: New Jersey

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ælfwine »

Zekoslav wrote: 12 Jun 2019 11:12 When did the Crimean Tatars arrive in Crimea?

Probably along with the Golden Horde, so 13th century.
My Blog

A-posteriori, alternative history nerd
User avatar
Zekoslav
sinic
sinic
Posts: 340
Joined: 07 Oct 2017 16:54

Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Zekoslav »

Ælfwine wrote: 12 Jun 2019 15:58
Zekoslav wrote: 12 Jun 2019 11:12 When did the Crimean Tatars arrive in Crimea?

Probably along with the Golden Horde, so 13th century.
The likelihood of *iu > /y/ and *eu > /ø/ would then depend on whether these diphtongs were preserved until the Tatars came. If they were monophthongized much earlier, then the likelihood of such a result decreases. However, as I've already said sometimes relying too much on historical realism can be limiting, especially when certain things are still debated in historical linguistics!
Languages:
:hrv: [:D], :bih: :srb: [;)], :eng: [:D], :fra: [:|], :lat: [:(], :deu: [:'(]

A linguistics enthusiast who occasionally frequents the CBB.

- Guide to Slavic accentuation
Post Reply