Yay or Nay?

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WeepingElf
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by WeepingElf »

ixals wrote: 11 May 2021 22:17 Do the sound developments matter? It's about whether the characters are good choices to represent the meaning of the word. Or do I misunderstand your question?
I think you misunderstand my question, but then I may have been mistaken about the way you are building your language. "Sound developments" refers to the (imagined) sound changes from Proto-Germanic to your language. But maybe you are not even using that method, so my question may be moot.
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ixals
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by ixals »

WeepingElf wrote: 12 May 2021 13:18 I think you misunderstand my question, but then I may have been mistaken about the way you are building your language. "Sound developments" refers to the (imagined) sound changes from Proto-Germanic to your language. But maybe you are not even using that method, so my question may be moot.
No, no, I do use sound changes to derive it from Proto-Germanic, it's just that the sound changes/the etymology is not necessary to know for this question imo. A similar example is Chinese has both and meaning tooth, so which one would I use for my germlang because I only have one word for tooth? Classical Chinese also had multiple characters for the third person (also some are used for third AND second person simultaneously) but with no difference in gender and number, so which ones would be the most fitting to use for my germlang? I just assigned them randomly now but I am not happy with that so far.
All4Ɇn wrote: 12 May 2021 05:20 I really like the second person ones but agree with you with the third person ones. Maybe you could change them to characters relating to men and women to stand in for the masculine/feminine gender split in the singular?
That's a good idea, I also had that for a second. I didn't find anything good though. I thought about using and because there is a , but no with a radical. It wouldn't have been a good idea anyway because I think I need to mean daughter.

Scrap that! While writing this post I accidently found about a variant character of , the third person character which also has other male meanings! [:D] It's , so I can use / for the male singular! Now there's only the female version which doesn't really have female connotations.

Ok, this changes everything. Now that isn't taken anymore, I can use it for the second person for which it was also used and I can get rid of which is just some dialectal character. However, I think I'll go ahead and switch and because Wiktionary says you (singular), but who knows how correct it is.

俉/吾 - 1SG
俄/我 - 1PL
伊/尹 - 2SG
儞/爾 - 2PL
伕/夫 - 3SG.M
他/也 - 3SG.F
倛/其 - 3PL

This is it, I think. I like it way more this way. Not as happy with the female pronoun as with the other ones yet but it's acceptable. Thanks for your reply which made me look through the characters again though [:P]
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by WeepingElf »

Oh, so I missed the point completely. The question was not about the sound shapes of the pronouns, but which Chinese characters to use to write them. That, of course, doesn't have anything to do with Germanic diachronic phonology, and as someone who doesn't speak or write Chinese, I can't say anything on that.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Salmoneus »

The real answer, of course, is that you should use Germanic logograms...

...but unfortunately you'd have to restart the Germanic logogram project again to do so. And I'm guessing it's been pruned...
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by ixals »

Salmoneus wrote: 12 May 2021 20:19 The real answer, of course, is that you should use Germanic logograms...

...but unfortunately you'd have to restart the Germanic logogram project again to do so. And I'm guessing it's been pruned...
Yeah, this would be the best option of course. I tried it once myself when I first started the project but I couldn't come up with something I like. Maybe one day [:'(]
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by All4Ɇn »

ixals wrote: 12 May 2021 19:19This is it, I think. I like it way more this way. Not as happy with the female pronoun as with the other ones yet but it's acceptable. Thanks for your reply which made me look through the characters again though [:P]
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ahzoh »

Yay or nay? Switch from Nominative-Oblique system to Direct-Oblique system?

Nominative-Oblique system:

Code: Select all

           SG     / PL
Subject:   alādum / alādū
DirObject: alādam / alādā
IndObject: alādam / alādā
Direct-Oblique system:

Code: Select all

           SG     / PL
Subject:   alādum / alādū
DirObject: alādum / alādū
IndObject: alādam / alādā
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by felipesnark »

@Ahzoh nay
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Titus Flavius »

Nay
ω - near-close near-back unrounded vowel.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Acipencer »

I may be a bit late, but. . .
You could try partially merging them both into an asymmetrical system. Either:

Code: Select all

           SG     / PL
Subject:   alādum / alādū
DirObject: alādam / alādū
IndObject: alādam / alādā
or

Code: Select all

           SG     / PL
Subject:   alādum / alādū
DirObject: alādum / alādā
IndObject: alādam / alādā
(If you don't want to merge them, then I'd say keep it Nominative-Oblique.)
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Larryrl »

My conlang is called Shu.

My question is about my word created here. "Bartender (drink pourer at a bar) obital unbăn" The word in Shu translated literally to English is "drink pourer". However there are other places one can pour a drink. Keep it as is, even with it being two words to make one? Yay or Nay?
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
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NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by WeepingElf »

Yay. Compounds that have a more specific meaning than their components occur in many languages. Think of English blackbird - not every black bird is a blackbird.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Larryrl »

WeepingElf wrote: 28 Aug 2021 20:02 Yay. Compounds that have a more specific meaning than their components occur in many languages. Think of English blackbird - not every black bird is a blackbird.

I know this is off of the subject we were discussing, but The "windows" that is "Microsoft" should be translated into Shu

Yay, or Nay?
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
Titus Flavius
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Titus Flavius »

I don't understand.
ω - near-close near-back unrounded vowel.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Khemehekis »

Titus Flavius wrote: 30 Aug 2021 23:47 I don't understand.
I'm gathering that Larryrl means: should he use the English name "Windows" when translating Microsoft's "Windows", or should he use the plural Shu word for "window" instead when he's referring to Bill Gates' product?
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by elemtilas »

Larryrl wrote: 30 Aug 2021 22:39
WeepingElf wrote: 28 Aug 2021 20:02 tYay. Compounds that have a more specific meaning than their components occur in many languages. Think of English blackbird - not every black bird is a blackbird.

I know this is off of the subject we were discussing, but The "windows" that is "Microsoft" should be translated into Shu

Yay, or Nay?
Re drink pourer: I'd ask you what does Shu culture tell you? English has more words for this particular office than just bar tender. If obital unbăn is a native term for a known occupation, then I'd say yea, keep it as is!

Re Windows: again, I'd ask what does Shu culture tell you? Was Windows invented by a Shu speaker, or is it imported? If the latter, then I'd ask you if Shu culture is welcoming of loan words or are loan words frowned upon? If the former, then the only question is how would a native pronounce "Windows"? If the latter, then how would the language board create a neo-native word for the software?

Also, if it's a borrowing, does it sound similar to any native Shu word? Particularly some humorous body part or comical turn of phrase? Lots of potential room for hilarity there! Perhaps also consider what windows mean within the culture and folklore! If, for example, they're associated with allowing demonic gods to steal away the souls of the dead, then I'd argue this might be a good marketing ploy for Mac OS!
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Larryrl »

elemtilas wrote: 31 Aug 2021 02:19
Larryrl wrote: 30 Aug 2021 22:39
WeepingElf wrote: 28 Aug 2021 20:02 tYay. Compounds that have a more specific meaning than their components occur in many languages. Think of English blackbird - not every black bird is a blackbird.

I know this is off of the subject we were discussing, but The "windows" that is "Microsoft" should be translated into Shu

Yay, or Nay?
Re drink pourer: I'd ask you what does Shu culture tell you? English has more words for this particular office than just bar tender. If obital unbăn is a native term for a known occupation, then I'd say yea, keep it as is!

Re Windows: again, I'd ask what does Shu culture tell you? Was Windows invented by a Shu speaker, or is it imported? If the latter, then I'd ask you if Shu culture is welcoming of loan words or are loan words frowned upon? If the former, then the only question is how would a native pronounce "Windows"? If the latter, then how would the language board create a neo-native word for the software?

Also, if it's a borrowing, does it sound similar to any native Shu word? Particularly some humorous body part or comical turn of phrase? Lots of potential room for hilarity there! Perhaps also consider what windows mean within the culture and folklore! If, for example, they're associated with allowing demonic gods to steal away the souls of the dead, then I'd argue this might be a good marketing ploy for Mac OS!
I decided to leave it as is. I read that if it is a trademark it stayss as is.
DESH ABONUK KE NI NA
(IT) IS A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU

NUK KE DESHT
PLEASE SIT DOWN (LITERALLY, PLEASE TO SIT)

DESH ŶN MODA KE ŶM AMSPA
THERE IS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Man in Space »

Couple of questions about CT and CT cuneiform. The salient facts:
  • The distinction between /t/ and /ɹ/ is largely neutralized when it's not in initial position (or following some consonants).
  • I have planned to write CT using a defective orthography, specifically cuneiform that is largely based around glyphs representing CV sequences when in a phonetic mode.
  • Following from the above two points, syllables with /t/ are written using the glyphs for those with /ɹ/.
  • One of the consonants that I would like to be doubled up is /ɬ/, currently romanized as ś (earlier ł).
  • It should be noted that /k/ does not have similar allophony to /t/—it doesn't turn into /ʕ/.
With that in mind:
  • With the glyphs for which onset phoneme should I write the /ɬ/-syllables: /l/, /θ/, or /s/?
  • Should I go back to ł for /ɬ/?
  • Should I write syllables involving /k/ and /ʕ/ using the same glyphs, write syllables involving /k/ and /x/ using the same glyphs, or keep the glyphs for syllables involving /k/, /x/, and /ʕ/ all separate?
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