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Are you implying that there are IPA synthezizers? I've been looking for that for ages. Can you provide some names? I'd gladly pay money for a tool that works properly in reading out loud IPA.Titus Flavius wrote: ↑13 Jun 2021 12:08 Pronounce it yourself! It's your conlang and you know how to pronounce it, and IPA synthezators are either bad or expensive :)
I actually just read https://courses.helsinki.fi/sites/defau ... antity.pdf that Estonian can well have a secondary stress following the main stress, if the first syllable having the main stress is "over-long" and can thus form a foot itself.Omzinesý wrote: ↑06 Jul 2021 11:48I think it's not stressing. Commands surely have a different intonation compared to affirmatives, but if you have Hän ei tule tänne. and Tule tänne!, both tule are similar in the word level. Most dialects have the final gemination in the end of both.Vlürch wrote: ↑05 Jul 2021 20:47Really? In Finnish the difference between eg. the tule in hän ei tule ("he/she doesn't come") and tule! ("come!") is /ˈtule/ and /ˈtuˈle/ AFAIK, or at least that's what it sounds like and I'm sure I've read it described that way. What the actual difference between stressed and unstressed syllables even is in Finnish is something no one can agree on, though, so... hmm...eldin raigmore wrote: ↑03 Jul 2021 14:36A single word cannot contain two consecutive stressed syllables.
I believe the constraint against stress collisions is violable if one of the two syllables is at least trimoraic (superheavy) and the other is at least bimoraic (heavy).Omzinesý wrote: ↑08 Jul 2021 18:14 I actually just read https://courses.helsinki.fi/sites/defau ... antity.pdf that Estonian can well have a secondary stress following the main stress, if the first syllable having the main stress is "over-long" and can thus form a foot itself.
[sú:][lìsi] 'oral PL.PART'
But the counterexample you're quoting is still a counterexample even to that, as the secondary stress falls on a light syllable...eldin raigmore wrote: ↑08 Jul 2021 21:59I believe the constraint against stress collisions is violable if one of the two syllables is at least trimoraic (superheavy) and the other is at least bimoraic (heavy).Omzinesý wrote: ↑08 Jul 2021 18:14 I actually just read https://courses.helsinki.fi/sites/defau ... antity.pdf that Estonian can well have a secondary stress following the main stress, if the first syllable having the main stress is "over-long" and can thus form a foot itself.
[sú:][lìsi] 'oral PL.PART'
No, I wasn't. All my counterexamples were single words.I though we were talking just about the distribution of stress over the syllables of one word.
Salmoneus was talking about the distribution of stress over an entire multi-word tagma; a phrase or clause or sentence.
Code: Select all
He Sensory Evidence
Pa Inferred Evidence
? Reportative
Si Egophoric certain (I know cos I did it.)(also used in narratives with an all-knowing storyteller)
? Egophoric uncertain (I think)
Ta Fact (Everybody generally knows, so no need for evidence.)
? Imagined (No need for evidence)
Spanish verbs have joined the chat
In the singular present indicative, sound changes have largely changed roots stressed on the penult to be stressed on the ult. That trend has been extended so that verbs with penultimate root stress in Latin get ultimate root stress when borrowed into Spanish ( 
clārificō -> 
clarifico; pacífico "pacific" but pacifico "I pacify").Reportative and fact? Inferred and egophoric uncertain?
It's not phonemically a syllabic /ŋ/ though, it's an allophone of word-final /ən/~/n/ after velar consonants (also after /k ŋ/ as in <Balken> [bal.kŋ], <singen> [zɪŋ.ŋ], but cf. after non-velars: <Kasten> [kas.tn], <leben> [le:.bm]).
yes, Cantonese
that depends on what you mean by "apical vowels". fricated vowels can appear after palatals and retroflexes, yes - Nuosu allows the syllables /tsɿ tʂɿ tɕɿ/ - but they typically take on the quality of the preceding consonant, so [tsɿ tʂʅ] and then something that I guess you could write [tɕɿᶽ]yangfiretiger121 wrote: ↑10 Jul 2021 16:52 Can apical vowels appear after palatals and/or retroflexes?
Asking for *cough* a friend *cough*, how weird would it sound if someone had [n] instead of [N] here? [particularly [zIN.N], I can't even conceive of how to pronounce that!]cedh wrote: ↑10 Jul 2021 20:34It's not phonemically a syllabic /ŋ/ though, it's an allophone of word-final /ən/~/n/ after velar consonants (also after /k ŋ/ as in <Balken> [bal.kŋ], <singen> [zɪŋ.ŋ], but cf. after non-velars: <Kasten> [kas.tn], <leben> [le:.bm]).
I actually say [zIN], even though other people say it should be [zIN:] if monosyllabic. That also means <gähnen> 'yawn' and <gehen> 'go' are both [ge:n]. For me [zINn] is way more difficult to pronounce, independent of syllabification, even though it doesn't sound wrong. [zI.N@n] on the other hand sounds like a news anchor to me.Salmoneus wrote: ↑10 Jul 2021 21:49Asking for *cough* a friend *cough*, how weird would it sound if someone had [n] instead of [N] here? [particularly [zIN.N], I can't even conceive of how to pronounce that!]cedh wrote: ↑10 Jul 2021 20:34It's not phonemically a syllabic /ŋ/ though, it's an allophone of word-final /ən/~/n/ after velar consonants (also after /k ŋ/ as in <Balken> [bal.kŋ], <singen> [zɪŋ.ŋ], but cf. after non-velars: <Kasten> [kas.tn], <leben> [le:.bm]).
Also: woah, unexpected syllabification. I'd always assumed it would be /kast.n/ and /leb.n/ as it would be in English. Again, a real tongue-twister you have there!
In [zɪŋ.ŋ] there is no break between the two instances of [ŋ], it's a single long consonant, but there's a (weak) prosodic contour that's typical for disyllabic feet (roughly ↘↗ in terms of volume and →↘ in terms of pitch).Creyeditor wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 10:34I actually say [zIN], even though other people say it should be [zIN:] if monosyllabic. That also means <gähnen> 'yawn' and <gehen> 'go' are both [ge:n]. For me [zINn] is way more difficult to pronounce, independent of syllabification, even though it doesn't sound wrong. [zI.N@n] on the other hand sounds like a news anchor to me.
the cantonese surname https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ng_(name) also exists. they also have a syllabic /m/, and, though i havent looked, i imagine there's probably a syllabic /n/ too.