Typological voting game

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Porphyrogenitos
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by Porphyrogenitos »

So...currently both questions are in an all-way tie. We need more votes!

If the consonant inventories are tied tomorrow, I will just do a coin toss/dice roll to break the tie. That'll be a new rule: If a runoff round still results in a tie, the tie will be broken by random choice.
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by eldin raigmore »

131 B Hybrid vigesimal/decimal
131 second choice D other (specifically dozenal)

Consonant inventory we’ve already ruled out anything I’d like
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by cedh »

My vote for #131 Numeral bases is E: Extended body part system.


As for consonant inventories, what about merging C and H as the following?

C+H
/p t k k'/
/m n/
/s/
/w r j/

with /p/ allophonically realized as [h] in coda position and possibly also between vowels.
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by shimobaatar »

I thought I'd already voted this round, but I guess not.

Consonant Inventory Runoff: C

C)
/p t k kʼ/
/m n/
/s/
/w r j/

Ch. 131: B
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by Porphyrogenitos »

Okay, everyone, we do indeed have results for Round 9! Our winning consonant inventory is inventory C - Creyeditor's "Lonely ejective" inventory!

/p t k kʼ/
/m n/
/s/
/w r j/

In later rounds we will have the opportunity to decide on allophonic processes.

Oh, and just so we can see the consonants and vowels in one place, here is our vowel inventory for comparison:

/i ɨ u/
/e/
/a/

The winner for Chapter 131: Numeral bases is B, Hybrid vigesimal-decimal! This is what WALS has to say about that category:
For practical reasons — in particular, the frequency of the type in the world’s languages — it is useful to distinguish a hybrid vigesimal–decimal system in which the numbers up to 99 are expressed vigesimally, but the system then shifts to being decimal for the expression of the hundreds, so that one ends up with expressions of the type x100 + y20 + z; this is illustrated in (3) by the Basque expression for 256:

(3) Basque (Oroitz Jauregi, p.c.)
berr-eun eta berr-ogei-ta-hama-sei
two-hundred and two-twenty-and-ten-six
In Round 10, we will be doing something very exciting - voting on tone and stress. Tone is Chapter 13 in WALS; for stress, I am providing a more general question first before addressing specific WALS chapters.

Chapter 13: Tone

A) No tones
B) Simple tone system (two-way contrast)
C) Complex tone system (more complex system of contrasts)

Stress

A) No stress
B) Predictable stress, fixed
C) Predictable stress, weight-sensitive
D) Unpredictable (lexical) stress

Yes, these are separate questions! A language may have tone, or it may have stress, or it may have both tone and stress, or it may have neither! All languages have prosody, course, but e.g. French has no word-level stress or tone, which is the issue at hand.

Now, some of you may be asking - what about pitch-accent? Well, in current phonological theory, "pitch-accent" is not really considered to be a thing - there are no unifying traits across all systems that have been labeled as "pitch-accent"; such systems tend to consist of a simple tonal system or combine traits of both tonal systems and stress systems. See Larry Hyman's How (not) to do phonological typology: The case of pitch-accent and Tone: Is it different?

For example, in WALS, Japanese is coded as having a simple tone system and no stress, while Norwegian is coded as having a simple tone system and right-oriented weight-sensitive stress. So if you want some kind of "pitch-accent" system for the language, you best bet is to vote for a simple tone system, and optionally some type of stress system.

Voting for Round 10 will close at 5:00 PM GMT (12 noon US Eastern time) on Wednesday, February 3.
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Re: Typological voting game

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Chapter 13: Tone
B) Simple tone system (two-way contrast)

Stress
B) Predictable stress, fixed
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by Ratsawn »

Tone: B

Stress: D
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by eldin raigmore »

13 Tone C more than just a two-way contrast

Stress C predictable weight-sensitive
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by Porphyrogenitos »

This question needs more votes! [;)]

As for stress, as I said, additional questions drawn from WALS will enable us to narrow down what the stress system looks like, if we choose to have a stress system.

When it comes to tone, if we do decide to have it, we will wait until after the morphological questions to pin down the details, since it is possible that we might encode certain morphological categories via tone, and I think our decision on the details of the tonal system would need to be informed by that. In any case, the details of a tone system would be decided through votes on user-submitted proposals.
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by Creyeditor »

I also encourage everyone to vote [:)]
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by cedh »

Chapter 13: Tone
B) Simple tone system (two-way contrast)

Stress
C) Predictable stress, weight-sensitive
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by shimobaatar »

Ch. 13: B
Stress: B
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by Porphyrogenitos »

The results for Round 10 are in! For Chapter 13: Tone we have decided on a Simple tone system (two-way contrast). The vote for Stress has resulted in a tie between Predictable stress, fixed and Predictable stress, weight-sensitive.

So in Round 11 we'll be doing a run-off on stress. I guess we can also do Chapter 27: Reduplication.

Stress run-off

A) Predictable stress, fixed
B) Predictable stress, weight-sensitive

Chapter 27: Reduplication

A) Productive full and partial reduplication
B) Full reduplication only
C) No productive reduplication

Round 12 will further pin down the stress system, and in Round 13 we will finally be able to start on the chapters pertaining to inflectional categories.

Voting for Round 11 will close at 5:00 PM GMT (12 noon US Eastern time) on Wednesday, February 10.
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by eldin raigmore »

15 B predictable, weight-sensitive.
I also plan to vote for a three-syllable window when the question comes up.
That is, depending on the wights, either the primarily stressed syllable is one of the first three syllables (if we mak it left-oriented) or one of the last three (if we make it right-oriented).
My preferences, in order from most preferred to fourth-favorite, are:

15D Right-oriented
15B Left-oriented
15C Right edge
15A Left edge
All are predictable, all are 15 wight-sensitive.

27 Reduplicationation
A Full and papartialal rereduplication.
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by Ratsawn »

Stress Runoff: B

Reduplication: A
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by shimobaatar »

Stress: A
Ch. 27: A
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by Torco »

Ratsawn wrote: 04 Feb 2021 03:54 Stress Runoff: B

Reduplication: A
me votes this too
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by Creyeditor »

Stress: B
Reduplication: A
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by Porphyrogenitos »

Okay, here are our results for Round 11:
  • Stress run-off - B) Predictable stress, weight-sensitive
  • Chapter 27: Reduplication - A) Productive full and partial reduplication
In Round 12, we will be figuring out how exactly our our weight-sensitive predictable stress system will work.

Chapter 15: Weight-sensitive stress

A) Left-edge: Stress is on the first or second syllable
B) Left-oriented: The third syllable is involved
C) Right-edge: Stress on ultimate or penultimate syllable
D) Right-oriented: The antepenultimate is involved
E) Unbounded: Stress can be anywhere in the word
F) Combined: Both Right-edge and unbounded (or another combination of the above)

This is actually a slightly modified version of chapter 15, excluding the options not relevant to weight-sensitive stress systems. I won't quote the entirety of the sections on unbounded and combined systems, but I would recommend taking a look at it for further explanation.

Edit: I am changing option F so that it includes any possible combination of the above factors, not just Right-edge and unbounded as listed in WALS

Chapter 16: Weight Factors in Weight-Sensitive Stress Systems

A) Long vowel: long vowels are heavy for stress
B) Coda consonant: closed syllables are heavy for stress
C) Long vowel + Coda: long vowels or closed syllables
D) Prominence: other factors are heavy for stress
E) Combined: two of the above factors determine weight

I have also slightly modified Chapter 16 here, excluding the options not relevant to weight-sensitive stress systems.

Explanation of option D, "Prominence":
Prominence systems form somewhat of a mixed collection. There are several non-quantitative salient syllabic properties that can form the basis of heavy-light distinctions. One of the most common is the opposition between full and reduced vowels, as in Chuvash (Turkic; Russia), which stresses the last full vowel or else the first reduced one: sarlaˈka ‘widely’, ˈĕslĕpĕr ‘we shall work’. To save space here, we count rhythmic weight systems (1b) among the prominence systems. For further discussion of possible theoretical motivations for counting rhythmic beats as prominence factors, see Goedemans (1996).
Next week, in Round 13, we will begin to address questions about grammatical inflection. I think after those issues are mostly settled, we may go back and provide an opportunity to fine-tune the phonology a little bit more with allophonic rules and more specific descriptions of syllabic structure. At some point after that, we may even get into vocabulary creation, perhaps allowing users to submit proposals for various lexical items (likely starting with the Swadesh list).

Voting for Round 12 will close at 5:00 PM GMT (12 noon US Eastern time) on Wednesday, February 17.
Last edited by Porphyrogenitos on 10 Feb 2021 19:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Typological voting game

Post by Creyeditor »

I just wanted to mention that R12C15 does not list all logical possibilities. Maybe any combination of A-E should be included in F.

Anyway: I vote C15:E and C16:C, assuming that this means we add long vowels.

Also, when will we submit allophony (and more detailed phonotactics) proposals? Also, will we be able to submit proposals on the details of our stress-tone system?
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