Gallo-Tuscan

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All4Ɇn
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by All4Ɇn »

I'm currently working on adjectives before nouns and I've run into a bit of a conundrum. Before "impure s" there are currently two groups of adjectives:
1. Those add an epenthetic /o/ in the masculine singular form & an /i/ in the plural of both genders
2. Those that an /i/ in all 3 of these forms (4 if the feminine singular doesn't end in -a)

The masculine singular for group 1 is the easiest to indicate orthographically:
Bòno psichiatter /ˌbon‿opsiˈkjɑteɾ/ (good psychiatrist)

I'm struggling with how to indicate the forms that add /i/. Right now I can think of 3 options:
1. Write it as <i> in the singular and <ie> in the plural e.g: grandi psichiatter & grandie psichiattere /ŋrɑ̃d‿ipsiˈkjɑteɾ/ (tall psychiatrist/psychiatrists)
2. Write it separately/hyphenated: grand i psichiatter & grande i psichiattere
3. Don't write it at all and have it be inferred by the context: grand psichiatter & grande psichiattere

What do you guys think?
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 07 May 2021 23:33, edited 1 time in total.
VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

All4Ɇn wrote: 24 Apr 2021 07:54 I'm currently working on adjectives before nouns and I've run into a bit of a conundrum. Before "impure s" there are currently two groups of adjectives:
1. Those add an epenthetic /o/ in the masculine singular form & an /i/ in the plural of both genders
2. Those that an /i/ in all 3 of these forms (4 if the feminine singular doesn't end in -a)

The masculine singular for group 1 is the easiest to indicate orthographically:
Bòno psichiatter /bɔn‿opsiˈkjɑteɾ/ (good psychiatrist)

I'm struggling with how to indicate the forms that add /i/. Right now I can think of 3 options:
1. Write it as <i> in the singular and <ie> in the plural e.g: grandi psichiatter & grandie psichiattere /ŋrɑ̃d‿ipsiˈkjɑteɾ/ (tall psychiatrist/psychiatrists)
2. Write it separately/hyphenated: grand i psichiatter & grande i psichiattere
3. Don't write it at all and have it be inferred by the context: grand psichiatter & grande psichiattere

What do you guys think?
I like the second option, having a meaningless epenthetic vowel written as a separate word appeals to me.

Also I haven't replied to this thread before, but Gallo-Tuscan is a really cool and distinctive romlang [:D]
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All4Ɇn
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by All4Ɇn »

VaptuantaDoi wrote: 24 Apr 2021 09:53I like the second option, having a meaningless epenthetic vowel written as a separate word appeals to me.

Also I haven't replied to this thread before, but Gallo-Tuscan is a really cool and distinctive romlang [:D]
Glad to know you like it :). If I did do the second one it would probably be written as <ì> to avoid confusion with the definite article e.g: i grande ì psichiattere
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All4Ɇn
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by All4Ɇn »

Adjective Irregularities
Adjectives before impure s
All adjectives that end in a consonant, consonant followed by a silent e, or a nasal vowel and are directly in front of a noun starting with one of the "impure consonants" are followed by the euphonic particle ì, which is phonetically attached to the noun, e.g: il grand ì psichiatter /il ŋrɑ̃d‿ipsiˈkjɑteɾ/ (the tall psychiatrist). This rule applies to all and can be assumed for all adjectives except in the masculine singular form for those adjectives below which irregularly add an -o in this form specifically before impure consonants.

Regular adjectives that add -o
The following adjectives are entirely regular group 1 adjectives but still add the ending -o in the masculine singular form before nouns starting with /t͡s d͡z ɲ ʎ/, consonant clusters starting with /s/, and a number of other complex consonant clusters including many from Greek loans such as /ks ps pn pt/
1. Lóng- Long
2. Stesse- Same
3. Vècie- Old
4. All superlatives ending in -issime (e.g: grandissime)
5. The irregular superlatives, i.e: infime, massime, minime, ottime, pessime, some, supreme

Bel- Great/Nice/Beautiful
Spoiler:
Masculine singular: Bel/Bello
Feminine singular: Bella/Bell'
Masculine plural: Béglie/Bei
Feminine plural: Beglie/Bei
-Bell' is used before nouns starting with a vowel
-Bello and Bei are used before /t͡s d͡z ɲ ʎ/, consonant clusters starting with /s/, and a number of other complex consonant clusters including many from Greek loans such as /ks ps pn pt/
Bon- Good
Spoiler:
Masculine singular: Bon/Bon'/Bòno
Feminine singular: Bona/Bon'
Masculine plural: Bone
Feminine plural: Bòne
-Bon' is used before nouns starting with a vowel
-Bòno is used before /t͡s d͡z ɲ ʎ/, consonant clusters starting with /s/, and a number of other complex consonant clusters including many from Greek loans such as /ks ps pn pt/
Brau- Good/Skillful
Spoiler:
Masculine singular: Brau/Brav'
Feminine singular: Brava/Brav'
Masculine plural: Brave
Feminine plural: Brave
-Brav' is used used before nouns starting with a vowel
Grand- Big/Tall/Large/Great
Spoiler:
Masculine singular: Grand/Gran
Feminine singular: Granda/Gran/Grand'
Masculine plural: Grande
Feminine plural: Grande
-Gran is used for masculine nouns when directly before a noun starting with a consonant. Before a noun starting with an impure consonant grand ì is always used
-Gran is optionally used for feminine nouns when directly before a noun starting with a consonant. It can typically be replaced with granda but in some expressions can't be substituted such as Gran Bretagna (Great Britain). Before a noun starting with an impure consonant granda is always used
-Grand' is used before nouns starting with a vowel
Mal- Evil
Spoiler:
Masculine singular: Mal/Malo
Feminine singular: Mala/Mal'
Masculine plural: Male
Feminine plural: Male
-Mal' is used before nouns starting with a vowel
-Malo is used before /t͡s d͡z ɲ ʎ/, consonant clusters starting with /s/, and a number of other complex consonant clusters including many from Greek loans such as /ks ps pn pt/
-Mal as an adjective means evil. The adjective meaning bad is frazì
Nòve- New
Spoiler:
Masculine singular: Nòve/Nov'/Nòvo
Feminine singular: Nòva/Nov'
Masculine plural: Nove
Feminine plural: Nòve
-Nov' is used nouns starting with a vowel
-Nòvo is used before /t͡s d͡z ɲ ʎ/, consonant clusters starting with /s/, and a number of other complex consonant clusters including many from Greek loans such as /ks ps pn pt/
Pronunciation of unstressed monosyllabic adjectives before nouns
All single syllable adjectives are typically pronounced as secondarily stressed clitics directly before a noun, causing /ɛ ɔ ɛ̃ ɔ̃/ to be pronounced as /e o ẽ õ/. This change is only indicated orthographically in the forms bon' and nov' but applies to all adjectives, i.e: i nòve boteche /i ˌnov‿boˈθeh/ (the new stores) & il bòno psichiatter /il ˌbon‿opsiˈkjɑteɾ/ (the good psychiatrist)
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All4Ɇn
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by All4Ɇn »

Not sure what topic to cover next so I thought I'd ask if there's anything anyone wants to see in particular. I could cover other determiners, verbs, pronouns, maybe vocabulary. If there's something else anyone is interested in I could also cover that.
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ixals
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by ixals »

I vote for pronouns and after that, verbs! [:D]
Native: :deu:
Learning: :gbr:, :chn:, :tur:, :fra:

Zhér·dûn a tonal Germanic conlang

old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by eldin raigmore »

Multi-clausal constructions.
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All4Ɇn
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by All4Ɇn »

ixals wrote: 16 May 2021 22:22 I vote for pronouns and after that, verbs! [:D]
I can definitely do this soon if not next :)
eldin raigmore wrote: 17 May 2021 03:29 Multi-clausal constructions.
Thank you for reminding me of this. I actually haven’t started this element yet so I have so work to do
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All4Ɇn
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by All4Ɇn »

Personal Pronouns
I've gotten around to figuring these all out

Nominative Pronouns
Rarely used as a verbal subject except for emphasis. Typically only seen as disjunctive pronouns after a preposition. Before a first or third person nominative pronoun, the prepositions con (with) and in (in) become co' and ne'
1s: or me (second preferred by most dialects; iò never used disjunctively)
2s: te
3s masculine: gli
3s feminine: le
1p: noi
2p: voi
3p: lor

Accusative Pronouns
1s: me/m'
2s: te/t'
3s masculine: lo/l'
3s feminine: la/l'
3s reflexive: se/s'
1p: zi
2p: ve/v'
3p: li

Dative Pronouns
1s: me/m'
2s: te/t'
3s: zi
3s reflexive: se/s'
1p: zi
2p: ve/v'
3p: zi

In addition to being used as a typical dative pronoun, zi is also used to replace any noun (such as a place) after the preposition a meaning to/at. In this meaning it's typically translated as "there" and is almost identical to French y or Italian ci.

Stressed Dative
The stressed dative consists of the preposition a followed by a nominative pronoun and is always used in conjunction with the normal dative pronouns. It's used in order to avoid situations where the meaning could be ambiguous particularly with the pronoun zi:
Zi lo da a noi: He's giving it to us
Zi l'ha dà a le: He gave it to her

Instrumental Zi
A completely superfluous zi is sometimes used alongside co' noi, co' gli, co' le, co' lor. This instrumental zi was formerly used alone (like how ci can be used instrumentally in Italian) but over time the forms of con became necessary to avoid confusion with other meanings of zi. Use of instrumental zi changes person to person but officially it should be used everywhere alongside co' noi/co' gli/co' le/co' lor whenever the meaning can't be misinterpreted, e.g:
1. Zi ho parià co' lor- I spoke with them (instrumental zi kept because the meaning is clear)
2. Zi Scrive co' gli- He writes with it (superfluous zi dropped here because the sentence could be misinterpreted as "he writes to us with it")

Genitive Pronoun
En/N'/Ne (before impure s) is used in place of any prepositional phrase consisting of de (of/from) and a noun.

Pronoun Location
1. If there is a conjugated verb, pronouns always go before it
2. If there is a conjugated verb followed by an infinitive, pronouns are usually suffixed to the infinitive but sometimes will come before the main verb
3. When making perfect tenses, pronouns go before the auxiliary verb
4. When making the passive (rarely used), pronouns are suffixed after the past participle
5. After an infinitive, present participle, or past participle not preceded by a conjugated verb, the pronoun is suffixed after
6. In the positive imperative, pronouns are suffixed after the verb

Pronunciation Changes
When suffixed after a verb form, pronouns undergo a few changes
1. Pronouns ending in -e always pronounce the /e/ even when they're word-final. This is the only occurence of unstressed final /e/ in native Gallo-Tuscan words and is not indicated differently in the orthography: pariarme (to talk to me) /bɑˈrjɑme/
2. If the pronoun is suffixed to a present participle, past participle, or imperative ending in a silent -e, the silent -e is replaced with an -i: un liver scrittime (a book written for me)
3. En becomes -ne when suffixed after the verb
4. Zi becomes -izi when suffixed after infinitives except for those ending in -ar where the -r is silent: finirizilo (to finish it for us)
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 04 Jun 2021 22:42, edited 1 time in total.
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All4Ɇn
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by All4Ɇn »

-Ar Verbs in the Present Tense
As mentioned previously, the <r> is always silent in the infinitive of a regular -ar verb. This rule does not apply to the verbs star (be/stand) or dar (give) or to any of the formerly -er verbs that shortened their infinitives such as far (do) or attrar (attract). The final -s in the the 2s and 1p forms are always silent.

The first person singular conjugation was originally null but was over time analogized to being identical to the second person singular form. The third person plural form was originally an unstressed nasal vowel, but as this was practically the only occurence of word final unstressed nasal vowels in the whole language, the stress was eventually moved to the end of the conjugation where it quickly was analogized to the first person plural form.

1s: -e
2s: -es
3s: -a
1p: -ons
2p: -et
3p: -on

Sample Verb: Smutar- Change/Turn into
Spoiler:
1s: Smute /smuθ/
2s: Smutes /smuθ/
3s: Smuta /ˈsmuθɑ/
1p: Smutons /smuˈθɔ̃/
2p: Smutet /smuˈθɛt/
3p: Smuton /smuˈθɔ̃/
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All4Ɇn
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by All4Ɇn »

-Er/-Ér Verbs in the Present Tense
Unlike the -ar infinitive ending, the <r> is pronounced. A fairly large number of -er verbs derived from the Latin -ĕre verbs have shortened their stem in the imperative. The full stem reveals itself in the conjugations. Example include:
Assér (seat): asséd-
Attrar (attract): attrà-/attrac-/attrai-
Bér (drink): bév-
Conclur (conclude): conclud-
Crér (believe): créd-
Dir (say): dic-
Far (do): faç- (always palatalized)
Ler (read): lèg-
Some of these verbs have other complications in their conjugations and will be covered later.

1s: -e
2s: -es (metaphony of stressed /e ẽ o õ ɛ ɛ̃ ɔ ɔ̃/ to /i ĩ u ũ e ẽ o õ/; palatalization of stem final /(s)k ŋ/ to /t͡s d͡ʒ/)
3s: -e (palatalization of stem final /(s)k ŋ/ to /t͡s d͡ʒ/
1p: -ons (palatalization of stem final /(s)k ŋ/ to /t͡s d͡ʒ/
2p: -et (palatalization of stem final /(s)k ŋ/ to /t͡s d͡ʒ/
3p: -on

The few verbs ending in -cér/-gér (note the stress on the infinitive ending) treat the palatalized consonant as part of the stem and don't alternate between the palatalized and non-palatalized variants

Sample Verb: Terger- Clean
Spoiler:
1s: Terghe /tɛɾŋ/
2s: Térges /teɾd͡ʒ/
3s: Terge /tɛɾd͡ʒ/
1p: Tergions /teɾˈd͡ʒɔ̃/
2p: Terget /teɾˈd͡ʒɛt/
3p: Tergon /teɾˈŋɔ̃/
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All4Ɇn
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Re: Gallo-Tuscan

Post by All4Ɇn »

-Ir Verbs in the Present Tense
As you may expect, -ir verbs have two separate conjugates, one with an infix from Latin -ēsc- and one without it.

Group One:
1s: -e
2s: -es (metaphony of stressed /e ẽ o õ ɛ ɛ̃ ɔ ɔ̃/ to /i ĩ u ũ e ẽ o õ/; palatalization of stem final /(s)k ŋ/ to /t͡s d͡ʒ/)
3s: -e
1p: -ons (palatalization of stem final /t/ to /t͡s/
2p: -et
3p: -on (palatalization of stem final /t/ to /t͡s/

Sample Verb: Partir- Leave
Spoiler:
1s: Part /bɑɾt/
2s: Partes /bɑɾt/
3s: Parte /bɑɾt/
1p: Parçons /bɑɾˈ t͡sɔ̃/
2p: Partet /bɑɾˈtɛt/
3p: Parçons /bɑɾˈ t͡sɔ̃/
Group Two:
Note that unlike in Italian, the -esc- infix is added in the 1p form. This verbal infix is unique in that it undergoes the metaphony of /ɛ/ to /i/. This originates from a regular /e/ -> /i/ metaphony but eventually this /e/ was lowered to /ɛ/ so as to ease the pronunciation. Many -ir verbs which do not receive this infix in Italian do in Gallo-Tuscan; this includes all -ir verbs ending in complex clusters
1s: -esche
2s: -êsces
3s: -esce
1p: -esçons
2p: -et
3p: -escon

Sample Verb: Aprir- Open
Spoiler:
1s: Abresche /ɑˈbɾɛsk/
2s: Aprêsces /ɑˈbɾit͡s/
3s: Apresce /ɑˈbɾɛt͡s/
1p: Apresçons /ɑbɾeˈt͡sɔ̃/
2p: Apret /ɑˈbɾɛt/
3p: Aprescon /ɑbɾeˈskɔ̃/
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