Añoþnın

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GoshDiggityDangit
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Re: Añoþnın

Post by GoshDiggityDangit »

VaptuantaDoi wrote: 10 Jul 2021 07:41 Cıñı ısiɂse tuɂ ñiksuþnı. Isñıne ñı kıson. Cıñı cıse ñi to cısacan bıctın: “A ñane kıson usıñca su bı!” Cısaca cıse cıñın: “Iñısiheñ bıcteñi Benunos.” Añe cıñın Benunosnı u ko ñi bot ñi. Cıse ñi to Benunosnı: “A kosañ Benunosa ñec!” Añe Benunosnı sıknan kus o cıse ñi to ñi: “Ñıneñ kın?” Cıse ñi to: “Isñınıh kısoñca.” Benunosa bıɂ cıse ñi to: “Iñısnes kıson bın” Kokneþ use cıñın un ıñan kıso.

Aa Bb Cc Ee Hh İi Iı Kk Nn Ññ Oo Ss Tt Uu Þþ Ɂɂ
With those dotless is, I can't help but think of Turkish [xP] Cool as always!
"Coffee is an azimuthal polar map that you to map back to a sphere and then you can map it to any projection you desire."
http://catran.cailab.net/wordpress/
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Omzinesý
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Re: Bechsukchwan Čəsač

Post by Omzinesý »

VaptuantaDoi wrote: 26 Jun 2021 02:33



əñčisəse ñəñañ ñəbneneʔ
əñə-čisəsəsə-Ø-te ñə-ñiñə-ñi ñə-bənenene-nə
NPAST.PFV-move.apart-3-PL PL-root-DIST PL-pig-DAT
"The pigs are going to disturb those roots"[/spoiler]

When these motion verbs also have an indirect or prepositional object, the dative subject comes before the true indirect object.
Spoiler:
ənañe čəsačnə ñətkenə
ən-Øanuñe-Ø čəsəkaču-nə ñə-tokene-nə
PAST.PFV-walk-3sg person-DAT PL-melon-DAT
"The person walked to the melons"
How about passive forms of these motion verbs? There aren't any. Morphologically and syntactically, these verbs are already in the passive;
So basically all arguments are in the dative. Agent, theme and goal?
Does French have something similar?
Last edited by Omzinesý on 10 Jul 2021 20:52, edited 1 time in total.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Añoþnın

Post by DesEsseintes »

I like the new romo and the new name.
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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Añoþnın

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

GoshDiggityDangit wrote: 10 Jul 2021 13:27
VaptuantaDoi wrote: 10 Jul 2021 07:41 Cıñı ısiɂse tuɂ ñiksuþnı. Isñıne ñı kıson. Cıñı cıse ñi to cısacan bıctın: “A ñane kıson usıñca su bı!” Cısaca cıse cıñın: “Iñısiheñ bıcteñi Benunos.” Añe cıñın Benunosnı u ko ñi bot ñi. Cıse ñi to Benunosnı: “A kosañ Benunosa ñec!” Añe Benunosnı sıknan kus o cıse ñi to ñi: “Ñıneñ kın?” Cıse ñi to: “Isñınıh kısoñca.” Benunosa bıɂ cıse ñi to: “Iñısnes kıson bın” Kokneþ use cıñın un ıñan kıso.

Aa Bb Cc Ee Hh İi Iı Kk Nn Ññ Oo Ss Tt Uu Þþ Ɂɂ
With those dotless is, I can't help but think of Turkish [xP] Cool as always!
Thanks!
DesEsseintes wrote: 10 Jul 2021 16:21 I like the new romo and the new name.
And thank you too!
Omzinesý wrote: 10 Jul 2021 13:54 So basically all arguments are in the dative. Agent, theme and goal?
Does French have something similar?
The reference to French was in regards to having a divergent set of motion verbs; French has the "Dr Mrs Vandertrampp" verbs (most of which are motion verbs and all of which are intransitive) which act differently in the past perfect. None of the actual changes these verbs undergo in Añoþnın were taken from French.
Motion verbs only have two arguments, a subject and an indirect object; which are both in the case I call "dative" because that covers some of its many uses; these sentences act like intransitive passive sentences. Passive sentences I'm still confused by myself, but I'm pretty sure that the direct and indirect objects will both be in the dative; the subject will be in the direct case. I want to derive the dative passive clauses diachronically like this (Where X is the agent and Y is the undergoer):
  1. Active X verb Y is passivised with adpositions into Y verb-PASS by X-DAT
  2. The adposition and passive markers are then elipsed giving Y verb X-DAT
  3. This is then reanalysed as an indirect object verb Y X-DAT
  4. Any indirect objects are then tagged on at the end verb Y X-DAT Z-DAT
For example:

ənsəhtə nəʔ bačnonəč ñeč
ʔənsə-katə-Ø nəni bačəno-nə-nəče ñe-ča
NONP.IMPFV-tug-3SG rope mouth-DAT-MED 1DAT-PROX
"The rope is being pulled by his/her mouth to me"

Where mouth is the agent, rope is the undergoer and me is the indirect object. This basically means that the dative is used where "by" would be in English. You could form an anologous sentence in English like He was mauled by the lion by the shore; both the agent and indirect object are preceded by by.

(And thanks for the questions, cause they really help me clear things up in my head)
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Titus Flavius
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Re: Añoþnın

Post by Titus Flavius »

I like the turkish i-s, but the name was better before.
ω - near-close near-back unrounded vowel.
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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Añoþnın

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

Another descendant

This time I'm going for something more Papuan; inspired even more by the Lakes Plain languages cause I found a bunch of resources about them. I'm calling this guy Sekai. It's characterised by an extensive diachronic loss of phonemes; e.g. proto Bechsukchwan *kaˈku̯ai̯du → /é+L/, *keuˈkedi̯a → [kê], *ˈgakigu “ear” → /áɸù/, and by being almost completely isolating and highly tonal.

Phonology
Sekai has five consonants and five vowels, with a four-tone system which carries a high functional load.

Consonants
/t d k/
/ɸ s/

There are no nasals or approximants, although [j w] occasionally occur as allophones of /i u/ pre-vocalically. Nasals don't even occur allophonically outside of paralinguistic imitations. Note that while /t/ is laminal dental [t̪̻], /d/ is apical alveolar [d̠̺], and may even be implosive [ɗ̠̺]. /ɸ/ has a limited distribution; word-initially, it occurs only before /u/; additionally the sequences /ku ti/ almost never occur.

Consonant allophony
/k d/ have the allophones [ɣ l] intervocalically; some speakers even tend to drop intervocalic /k/ altogether.
The sequence /ìk/ is often realised as [ɰ]; e.g. /dìkâɸà/ → [dɰâɸà].
The sequence /ɸu/ may be [ʍu] or [xu].
When preceding a high vowel, /t/ is fricated to [t͡s].

Vowels
/i u e ɔ a/

Note that while /e/ is high-mid, /ɔ/ is low-mid.

Tones
The four tones are H, L, HL and LH, written as á à â ǎ. Some words carry a floating low tone, which is attached to the following morpheme and combines with the tone of the first vowel, notated as +L. This is realised as L if the tone is L or HL; and as LH if it is H or LH. For example, the word /ě+L/ "ten" has a floating L tone:

+L/ + /tùkâ/ "breadfruit" → [ě t͡sùɣâ] "ten breadfruits"
+L/ + /ê/ "scalp" → [ě è] "ten scalps"
+L/ + /túsà/ "ankle" → [ě t͡sǔsà] "ten ankles"
+L/ + /ɸǔ/ "snake" → [ě ʍǔ] "ten snakes"

Note that if this created a sequence of two identical vowels, the first with L and the second with H, this assimilated to a single vowel with LH tone.
+L/ + /êé/ "tooth" → *[ě èé] → [ě ě] "ten teeth"

Syllable structure
The maximum syllable is CV; there are no clusters and zero-onset syllables are common both word-initially and internally. Vowel hiatus may occur between any two non-identical vowels; this may mean that HL and LH tones can be analysed as sequences of the same vowel twice, i.e. /ǎ/ is underlyingly |àá|.

Pronouns
Sekai lost number marking on pronouns; there are only three roots. However, the second person root is also used as a first-person inclusive plural. Fundamentally the three roots mean:
1. A group including the speaker, not including addressee
2. Any group which includes the addressee
3. Any group which included neither the speaker nor the addressee
For ease of glossing they're simply given as 1P 2P 3P. All are single vowels, as in proto-Bechsukchwan.

1P /á/
2P /é/
3P /í/

Number can be specified with the adjective /síkɔ́/ "group"

Numbers
/áɸè é tùkê étè ê sí áɸè-sí àí+L ɔ̌ ě+L/

Note the high functional load of tone; the three numbers /é/ "two", /ê/ "five" and /ě+L/ are distinguished only through tone. The number 7 is expressed through a transparent compound; most likely proto-Sekai * "seven" was too similar to *é "one". Higher numbers are formed through compounding:

+L áɸè/ → [ě-ǎɸè] "11"
+L é/ → [ě-ě] "12"
+L tùkê/ → [ě-t͡sǔɣê] "13"
etc.

Speakers may use borrowed numerals from the prestige language Añoþnın to express higher numbers more succinctly.
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