Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
I remember reading somewhere of Beirut being, during the Roman/Byzantine era (correct me if I'm wrong) a largely Latin speaking island amidst a sea of Syriac and Greek speakers. So I thought to myself, why not add another Romlang to Conlangeria?
Basic vocabulary, for starters:
Numbers
1 ēn, ēne
2 dū, dūwa
3 trēh, triye
4 qotro, qotra
5 kitt, kitte
6 sext, sexte
7 seft, sefte
8 woxt, woxte
9 nū, nuwa
10 dex, dexa
Days (Sunday ~ Saturday):
l'edhmīk
l'eṡqedd
l'etret
el-qotrīn
el-kittīn
el-gem3a
el-sabte
Basic vocabulary, for starters:
Numbers
1 ēn, ēne
2 dū, dūwa
3 trēh, triye
4 qotro, qotra
5 kitt, kitte
6 sext, sexte
7 seft, sefte
8 woxt, woxte
9 nū, nuwa
10 dex, dexa
Days (Sunday ~ Saturday):
l'edhmīk
l'eṡqedd
l'etret
el-qotrīn
el-kittīn
el-gem3a
el-sabte
Conlangs in progress:
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
- Creyeditor
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Re: Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
That looks interesting and somewhat reminds me of Gothic for some reason
Will there be a set of regular sound changes?
Will there be a set of regular sound changes?
Creyeditor
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"Thoughts are free."
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
Nothing too definite at the moment; just a set of vague ideas:Creyeditor wrote: ↑16 Jun 2022 08:36 That looks interesting and somewhat reminds me of Gothic for some reason
Will there be a set of regular sound changes?
- spirantisation of stops (/p t k b d g/ > /f θ x v ð ɣ/) except in geminates
- s which was most likely an apical sibilant in Latin > /ʃ/, again with the exception of geminates
- c splits into /k ~ x/ and /q/ under still-vague conditions. The distinction gets phonemicised due to neutralisation of short, stressed vowels in certain positions and Semitic loans.
- initial f: preserve, or shift into /h/?
- Preservation of the distinction between a and ā (not sure if this is tenable though.. when did the merger between the two sounds happen in the rest of the Romance-speaking world?
Conlangs in progress:
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Re: Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
Translations of extracts from le Nvii (The Prophet ) by Xalīl Gebrān:
Qodhma edha 'n pāx e' shte 'l ħashsho?
Ken, de shte l' plāgha i' shpertho fegg a' kel-karko.
Log 'then dēr el kev trassīvthen tre morex, e' log 'then next el soltōtha,
e' kī pesseth tškēdheth d'kev e' soltōtha shte twaħta?
How shall I go in peace and without sorrow?
Nay, not without a wound in the spirit shall I leave this city.
Long were the days of pain I have spent within its walls, and long were the nights of aloneness;
and who can depart from his pain and his aloneness without regret?
Nāthī 'd' wōy den nāthwesh
Eshten prol prola d'shawq d'wītha pre shpersho
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
Qodhma edha 'n pāx e' shte 'l ħashsho?
Ken, de shte l' plāgha i' shpertho fegg a' kel-karko.
Log 'then dēr el kev trassīvthen tre morex, e' log 'then next el soltōtha,
e' kī pesseth tškēdheth d'kev e' soltōtha shte twaħta?
How shall I go in peace and without sorrow?
Nay, not without a wound in the spirit shall I leave this city.
Long were the days of pain I have spent within its walls, and long were the nights of aloneness;
and who can depart from his pain and his aloneness without regret?
Nāthī 'd' wōy den nāthwesh
Eshten prol prola d'shawq d'wītha pre shpersho
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
Last edited by dva_arla on 17 Jun 2022 21:04, edited 2 times in total.
Conlangs in progress:
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Re: Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
Declension: From Latin to Rōmī d'Levnōnī (henceforth Lebanese*)
The first declension: prula / prulē 'girl'
The second declension: prul / prulē 'boy'
The Latin 2nd dec. plural suffix -ī merges with the plural suffix -ē of the 1st dec., possibly due to Syriac influence.
Words with codas of certain phonotactical structure retain an -o at the end.
Neuter declension: the neuter plural -a has been re-analysed as a collective suffix. Compare:
peshk : fish (sg.)
peshkē : fish (pl.)
peshka: fish (col., also peshkātha)
The third declension
In Lebanese (unlike the rest of the Romance-speaking world) the third declension is greatly expanded, their use extended to nouns descended from Latin nouns of other declensions. Re-analysis of several alterations have resulted in new suffixes. Most productive are:
-thē: mīl / mīlthē 'soldier', pwēma / pwēmthē / pwēmtha 'poem' (col.)
-edh
-ra: nōm / nōmra 'name', werga / wergra 'virgin'
-ōn re-analysed as a collective plural (function to be distinguished later from -a)
Note: leghya / leghīthē 'legion', falq / falqē 'falcon'
The fourth declension: Extinct, relegated to other declensions
The fifth declension: dēy / dēr 'day' (irregular plural derived from the gen.pl)
*The language has been traditionally referred to by its speaker as Rōmī. However, el Renwātyōtha (Revival or Rennaisance) of the 19th and 20th centuries has seen a resurgence of a distinct Phoenician identity, distinguishing its holders from both the Arab and Aramean identities of their neighbours and Latin / Roman identity (the Romans being seen by some thinkers and historians as conquerors) -- thus leading to the assertion of Lebanese identity, including in the name of the Romance language spoken.
The first declension: prula / prulē 'girl'
The second declension: prul / prulē 'boy'
The Latin 2nd dec. plural suffix -ī merges with the plural suffix -ē of the 1st dec., possibly due to Syriac influence.
Words with codas of certain phonotactical structure retain an -o at the end.
Neuter declension: the neuter plural -a has been re-analysed as a collective suffix. Compare:
peshk : fish (sg.)
peshkē : fish (pl.)
peshka: fish (col., also peshkātha)
The third declension
In Lebanese (unlike the rest of the Romance-speaking world) the third declension is greatly expanded, their use extended to nouns descended from Latin nouns of other declensions. Re-analysis of several alterations have resulted in new suffixes. Most productive are:
-thē: mīl / mīlthē 'soldier', pwēma / pwēmthē / pwēmtha 'poem' (col.)
-edh
-ra: nōm / nōmra 'name', werga / wergra 'virgin'
-ōn re-analysed as a collective plural (function to be distinguished later from -a)
Note: leghya / leghīthē 'legion', falq / falqē 'falcon'
The fourth declension: Extinct, relegated to other declensions
The fifth declension: dēy / dēr 'day' (irregular plural derived from the gen.pl)
*The language has been traditionally referred to by its speaker as Rōmī. However, el Renwātyōtha (Revival or Rennaisance) of the 19th and 20th centuries has seen a resurgence of a distinct Phoenician identity, distinguishing its holders from both the Arab and Aramean identities of their neighbours and Latin / Roman identity (the Romans being seen by some thinkers and historians as conquerors) -- thus leading to the assertion of Lebanese identity, including in the name of the Romance language spoken.
Last edited by dva_arla on 17 Jun 2022 21:02, edited 1 time in total.
Conlangs in progress:
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Re: Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
Inflection
One of the most remarkable features of Lebanese inflection, in comparison to other Romance languages, is the replacement of the "unmarked" present with a construction based on the present participle. Thus for faxēv* 'to do', we have:
Present
faxetšo 'I do'
faxetš / faxettaš 'you (m/f.) do'
faxett / faxetta 'he / she does'
faxtēšmo : 'we do'
faxtēšte : 'you (pl.) do'
faxtēšten : 'they do'
Preterite
faxēv
faxēveh (usually pronounced as if 'faxēh', stress on the ultimate syllable)
faxēveth (usually pronounced as if 'faxēth', stress on the ultimate syllable)
faxvān
faxvāth
faxēvthen
Subjunctive
fax
faxeh
faxeth
faxyān
faxyāth
faxthen
*The 1sg. preterite serves as citation form.
One of the most remarkable features of Lebanese inflection, in comparison to other Romance languages, is the replacement of the "unmarked" present with a construction based on the present participle. Thus for faxēv* 'to do', we have:
Present
faxetšo 'I do'
faxetš / faxettaš 'you (m/f.) do'
faxett / faxetta 'he / she does'
faxtēšmo : 'we do'
faxtēšte : 'you (pl.) do'
faxtēšten : 'they do'
Preterite
faxēv
faxēveh (usually pronounced as if 'faxēh', stress on the ultimate syllable)
faxēveth (usually pronounced as if 'faxēth', stress on the ultimate syllable)
faxvān
faxvāth
faxēvthen
Subjunctive
fax
faxeh
faxeth
faxyān
faxyāth
faxthen
*The 1sg. preterite serves as citation form.
Conlangs in progress:
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Re: Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
I've been debating with myself on whether or not to retain final -s in nouns and verbs (as in Old French). The consonant is retained even in Greek even to the present day, and I'm sure Hellenophone influence was as strong as that of Latin in Roman and Byzantine Beirut/Berytis.
Conlangs in progress:
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Re: Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
A provisional, incomplete table of the conjugation of Lebanese verbs. More tenses will be added soon.
The table should be partly self-explanatory; I don't know where to begin elaboration, so just ask anything you'd like in the comments. Nevertheless, some things I find worth elaborating:
- Table 1 shows forms derived from Latin participles and infinitive (which includes many Lebanese finite forms); Table 2 shows inherited finite forms. Note that many Latin finite forms have fallen into disuse in Lebanese, including the Latin present (which have merged with the subjunctive in form).
- Lebanese verbs inherit three out of four principal parts (the 'Forms' in the table). Form I is formed out of the Present Stem, Form II the Perfect, and Form III the Passive. Unlike in the rest of the Romance languages, the passive participle does not have shades of a past/perfective meaning by default, and is, like in Latin, a purely passive form.
- In some tense-modal pairs two forms are given. The former are literary forms, while the latter are colloquial (truncated) forms. The shift from the former to the latter is an ongoing process.
I shall next work on polishing the principal parts (which have seen considerable remodelling etc.) In the meantime, feel free to share any thoughts or questions you might have in mind.
Pōkhweh! (Peace be upon you)
The table should be partly self-explanatory; I don't know where to begin elaboration, so just ask anything you'd like in the comments. Nevertheless, some things I find worth elaborating:
- Table 1 shows forms derived from Latin participles and infinitive (which includes many Lebanese finite forms); Table 2 shows inherited finite forms. Note that many Latin finite forms have fallen into disuse in Lebanese, including the Latin present (which have merged with the subjunctive in form).
- Lebanese verbs inherit three out of four principal parts (the 'Forms' in the table). Form I is formed out of the Present Stem, Form II the Perfect, and Form III the Passive. Unlike in the rest of the Romance languages, the passive participle does not have shades of a past/perfective meaning by default, and is, like in Latin, a purely passive form.
- In some tense-modal pairs two forms are given. The former are literary forms, while the latter are colloquial (truncated) forms. The shift from the former to the latter is an ongoing process.
I shall next work on polishing the principal parts (which have seen considerable remodelling etc.) In the meantime, feel free to share any thoughts or questions you might have in mind.
Pōkhweh! (Peace be upon you)
Conlangs in progress:
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Re: Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
Some passive-supines (explanations forthcoming)
1 (default: -ōtho ~ -tho)
amō amōtho ~ amtho
mtīqō mtīqōtho ~ mtīqtho
ternō trenōtho ~ trentho
4 (default: -ītho ~ -tho)
addī addītho ~ adsho
wnī wenītho ~ wentho
shettī shettītho ~ shetsho '
2 & 3 -tho
tnē tentho
mnē mentho (cf. archaic māsho) 'stay (dialectal)'
feghē feghtho 'flee, run away'
qorrē qerretho 'run'
spargē sparegtho 'sprinkle'
welwelē welweltho 'roll'
2 & 3 rtē, xtē, ghtē > -tho
wertē wertho 'turn'
flextē flextho
2 & 3 -sho
respeddē respedsho 'answer, respond'
mettē metsho 'put'
ezdē ezedsho 'sit, take a seat'
rīdhē rīdsho ~ rishsho 'laugh'
ekdhē ekkedsho ~ ekkeshsho 'kill'
wdhē wedsho ~ weshsho 'sell'
lwīdhē lwīdsho ~ lwīsho 'play'
Passives in -ē-
dre dētho 'give'
shtō shtētho 'stand'
Passives in -ū- (from stems ending in waw; note that these verbs do not see 'regularisation' even in the modern colloquial tongue):
mwē mūtho 'move'
Others
esh* (3sg.) efthīn (future part.) 'be'
etlē etlōtho ~ eteltho 'remove (a burden, an obstacle &c.)
eyyō eyyītho ~ eytho 'please, favour'
1 (default: -ōtho ~ -tho)
amō amōtho ~ amtho
mtīqō mtīqōtho ~ mtīqtho
ternō trenōtho ~ trentho
4 (default: -ītho ~ -tho)
addī addītho ~ adsho
wnī wenītho ~ wentho
shettī shettītho ~ shetsho '
2 & 3 -tho
tnē tentho
mnē mentho (cf. archaic māsho) 'stay (dialectal)'
feghē feghtho 'flee, run away'
qorrē qerretho 'run'
spargē sparegtho 'sprinkle'
welwelē welweltho 'roll'
2 & 3 rtē, xtē, ghtē > -tho
wertē wertho 'turn'
flextē flextho
2 & 3 -sho
respeddē respedsho 'answer, respond'
mettē metsho 'put'
ezdē ezedsho 'sit, take a seat'
rīdhē rīdsho ~ rishsho 'laugh'
ekdhē ekkedsho ~ ekkeshsho 'kill'
wdhē wedsho ~ weshsho 'sell'
lwīdhē lwīdsho ~ lwīsho 'play'
Passives in -ē-
dre dētho 'give'
shtō shtētho 'stand'
Passives in -ū- (from stems ending in waw; note that these verbs do not see 'regularisation' even in the modern colloquial tongue):
mwē mūtho 'move'
Others
esh* (3sg.) efthīn (future part.) 'be'
etlē etlōtho ~ eteltho 'remove (a burden, an obstacle &c.)
eyyō eyyītho ~ eytho 'please, favour'
Conlangs in progress:
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Re: Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
Interlude: some profanities
Nouns
khenn
kīl
mettla
kakh
People
nofqa, sharmūṭa, ptēna
pēdhīq
fethūthro
Verbs
kakhō
fethwē
Phrases
khenn d'emmeth!
Nouns
khenn
kīl
mettla
kakh
People
nofqa, sharmūṭa, ptēna
pēdhīq
fethūthro
Verbs
kakhō
fethwē
Phrases
khenn d'emmeth!
Conlangs in progress:
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Re: Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
Love the choice of location. Tempted to try a romlang there too.
The macrons are also a nice touch. Can the language be written in another alphabet than Latin (Arabic perhaps?)
The macrons are also a nice touch. Can the language be written in another alphabet than Latin (Arabic perhaps?)
Re: Rōmī d'Levnōnī : a Lebanese Romlang
Rūmī is supposed to be written in Syriac, but it'd take some effort to write in the script before I master it..
Conlangs in progress:
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.
Modern Khotanese
Modern Gandhari
?? - Japonic language in the Mekong Delta
Locna - Indo-European language in N. Syria
Wexford Norse
A British romlang, &c.