False cognates

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Khemehekis
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Re: False cognates

Post by Khemehekis »

ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: 15 Apr 2021 05:51 Of course, any "cognate" between a natlang and an a priori conlang is guaranteed to be false.
Fixed that for you.
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All4Ɇn
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Re: False cognates

Post by All4Ɇn »

:lat: grandō "hail" & :ita: grandine "hail"
:esp: :por: granizo "hail"

Although it's not entirely sure where the Spanish word comes from, it's phonetically difficult for granizo to be derived from the Latin and is most likely a combination of the word grano (grain) and the suffix -izo. The evolution of this term into meaning hail may be due to influence from the Latin though. The Portuguese use of the word is a direct borrowing from Spanish.
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Re: False cognates

Post by All4Ɇn »

:isr: מַצָּה matzo "matzo" vs. :ell: μᾶζᾰ mâza "barley bread"
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k1234567890y
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y »

Latin Gallia "Gaul" v.s. French Gaule "Gaul"
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Salmoneus
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Re: False cognates

Post by Salmoneus »

k1234567890y wrote: 12 Jun 2021 03:51 Latin Gallia "Gaul" v.s. French Gaule "Gaul"
Fucking hell.

And to add to that:

Irish/English: Gall vs Gaul vs Gael.

'gall' is an Irish word for a foreigner; with the capital letter, a 'Gall' is usually specifically a Dane or an Englishman, the two groups of people the Irish believed lived in France. It's related to Latin 'Gallia', but not to 'Gaul'. It's also (rarely) found as a word in English, in Irish-adjacent and historical writing, in the context of the perennial racial conflict between the 'Galls' and the 'Gaels'.

'Gael', however, despite appearances, is completely unrelated.

This means that a "Gall", a "Gael" and a "Gaul" all 'originally' described a Celtic-speaking person living in France, but all three are (suppposedly) unrelated!

To add to the confusion, the Scottish Gaelic reflex of 'Gaelic' is pronounced by the Irish as though it were derived from 'Gall', not from 'Gael' (i.e. with ga:l (it's meant to be ka:l with an unaspirated but voiced stop, but who's going to bother about that if your own language doesn't have such things...)).
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k1234567890y
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y »

Salmoneus wrote: 12 Jun 2021 23:28
k1234567890y wrote: 12 Jun 2021 03:51 Latin Gallia "Gaul" v.s. French Gaule "Gaul"
Fucking hell.

And to add to that:

Irish/English: Gall vs Gaul vs Gael.

'gall' is an Irish word for a foreigner; with the capital letter, a 'Gall' is usually specifically a Dane or an Englishman, the two groups of people the Irish believed lived in France. It's related to Latin 'Gallia', but not to 'Gaul'. It's also (rarely) found as a word in English, in Irish-adjacent and historical writing, in the context of the perennial racial conflict between the 'Galls' and the 'Gaels'.

'Gael', however, despite appearances, is completely unrelated.

This means that a "Gall", a "Gael" and a "Gaul" all 'originally' described a Celtic-speaking person living in France, but all three are (suppposedly) unrelated!

To add to the confusion, the Scottish Gaelic reflex of 'Gaelic' is pronounced by the Irish as though it were derived from 'Gall', not from 'Gael' (i.e. with ga:l (it's meant to be ka:l with an unaspirated but voiced stop, but who's going to bother about that if your own language doesn't have such things...)).
wow and thanks for telling

Maybe the Irish pronounciation could be due to some forms of folk etymology that such words are cognates?
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Salmoneus »

It's actually regular. The Scottish is /ka:lik/, and the Irish is (AIUI) /ga:lik/ just because the aspiration contrast is interpreted as a voicing contrast. I assume the Scottish is regular-ish, although it's kind of weird that Gàidhlig has such a different vowel (/a:/) from Gàidheal (/E:@l/), so I don't know.

Oh, and in Gàidhlig, 'gall' is pronounced /kaul/. I assume it may also have the diphthong (so, /gaul/) in some Irish dialects? But still not related to 'Gaul'...
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Re: False cognates

Post by Sequor »

Hindi bher, Malay-Indonesian biri-biri
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qwed117
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Re: False cognates

Post by qwed117 »

:nld: Papiamentu: kashi 'closet, cupboard' from Dutch 'kastje' / :esp: Catalan: caixa 'box' from Latin 'capsa' / :eng: English: chest from Latin 'cista'.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Salmoneus »

Giving the more startling same language pair: Kasten (crate, box, case) vs Kiste (chest, box) [german]
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ixals
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Re: False cognates

Post by ixals »

I guess the definitions make it obvious that they're not cognates but I always liked how Kuppel 'dome' is not cognate with kuppeln 'to clutch, to connect' and Kupplung 'clutch, socket', their variants koppeln and Kopplung (who are all cognate to Koppel 'paddock' instead). Kuppel however is cognate to Kübel 'bucket'.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: False cognates

Post by eldin raigmore »

qwed117 wrote: 14 Jun 2021 05:11 :nld: Papiamentu: kashi 'closet, cupboard' from Dutch 'kastje' / :esp: Catalan: caixa 'box' from Latin 'capsa' / :eng: English: chest from Latin 'cista'.
Does this have anything to do with why Kashi Go Lean tastes like a cardboard box?
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