False cognates
Re: False cognates
Nuxalk tł /tʰɬ̩/ vs Navajo dził /t͡sɪɬ/ and related forms? Are these true or false cognates?
Re: False cognates
Sanskrit अवोचत् <ávocat> ‘he spoke’ vs English “have a chat”
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Re: False cognates
A surprising one I just found:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andhadhi
Tamil: andham (end)
Kankonian: andam (last)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andhadhi
Tamil: andham (end)
Kankonian: andam (last)
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 88,000 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 88,000 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Re: False cognates
falka “flock/heard/pack/etc.”
flock
flock
Re: False cognates
Latin <Genius> and Hebrew /gaʔon/ "Genius". I searched for the origin of the , based on the discussion on the False friends thread, thinking it might be a loan from a Greek form, but it seems to be a native form. The seems also to be unrelated to the source of the family of words that include "Jinn"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Re: False cognates
Japanese gaijin 'foreigner', Hebrew goj 'non-Jew' and Romani gajo 'non-Roma' are probably all unrelated.
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My conlang pages
My conlang pages
Re: False cognates
I would say that the Gai in Gaijin, and the /goj/ are the false cognates here, since "goj" would be an IPA or German/Polish/Hungarian etc. spelling.WeepingElf wrote: ↑08 Oct 2021 15:18 Japanese gaijin 'foreigner', Hebrew goj 'non-Jew' and Romani gajo 'non-Roma' are probably all unrelated.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Re: False cognates
I wonder if serious (and its cognates) /Sirius (σέιριος) counts. Prior to c. 1990 this would be less valid.
They come from different PIE roots, *seh-ro- and *twis-ro-.
They come from different PIE roots, *seh-ro- and *twis-ro-.
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Re: False cognates
I can't believe I didn't mention this one already, but English barley[/i] and Korean bori[/i] always felt pretty close to me. The stop is phonetically unvoiced, but still.
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Re: False cognates
Closer: the other word for barley in English (the original OE word, now Scottish, but also surviving as a name for a specific type of barley) is bere. ['barley' is originally just 'bere'+'ly', i.e. "kind of like barley"].Backstroke_Italics wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021 12:11 I can't believe I didn't mention this one already, but English barley and Korean bori always felt pretty close to me. The stop is phonetically unvoiced, but still.
But if you want something really implausible, if you start with bori in Korea and just hop over the border, it's bor in Russian. It must be a coincidence, because obviously the Russian word has a very firm PIE (or at least northwestern IE substrate?) basis, whereas the Korean is apparently first attested in Middle Korean, where it would have been /pwoli/. And since the word for 'oats' ends in the same -ri syllable, I'm guessing it's also a compound anyway. But it's certainly a striking coincidence!
Re: False cognates
Irish fear, 'man', vs Old Norse fjǫrr, 'man'.
Re: False cognates
Has anyone mentioned <chào> and <ciao> yet>?
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Re: False cognates
Latin nivalis - "snowy"
Dutch nevelig - "foggy"
Dutch nevelig - "foggy"
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Re: False cognates
English pork
Maori poaka "pig, pork"
Maori poaka "pig, pork"
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: False cognates
Another unusual example:
English "Rat-a-tat" vs Finnish "Hra-ca-ca" (most prominently known in Ievan Polkka)
It's an ambiguous example though, as these words don't actually mean anything, they're normally just filler words used for metrical or rhyming purposes in poetic/musical context.
English "Rat-a-tat" vs Finnish "Hra-ca-ca" (most prominently known in Ievan Polkka)
It's an ambiguous example though, as these words don't actually mean anything, they're normally just filler words used for metrical or rhyming purposes in poetic/musical context.
Re: False cognates
Also, "zipto" and "zepto-" (10-21) (and thus "seven" and all its cognates, but that seems less important)Khemehekis wrote: ↑02 Feb 2021 04:24 Here's a pair of false cognates between two conlangs by the same person, but it's complete coincidence!
I just noticed these words borrowed from roots (the way we borrow from Latin and Greek or Japanese borrows from Chinese) in some other language in my Kankonian dictionary spreadsheet file:
protium zipto
deuterium dukhto
tritium klankhto
So apparently some other language in the Lehola Galaxy made zip- its root for one, dukh- is root for two, and klankh- its root for three.
These were words between #33,630 and #33,640, so they would have been created in 2012.
And then, as you can see, Nachtuil invented the word zip for "one" when reverse-diachronizing my Txabao from his Kojikeng for me!:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7005&p=295167&hilit ... ao#p295167
Re: False cognates
Arabic براق barraaq 'bright (colour)'
English bright
Arabic داكن daakin 'dark (colour)'
English dark
English bright
Arabic داكن daakin 'dark (colour)'
English dark
hīc sunt linguificēs. hēr bēoþ tungemakeras.
Re: False cognates
I'm not entirely sure what sound the <c> is supposed to stand for here, /ts/? In any case, these might actually be real... "cognates", in that it's probably not a coincidence that the nonsense syllables used in humming and scat singing tend to be broadly similar all across Western music.ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑09 Nov 2021 05:13 Another unusual example:
English "Rat-a-tat" vs Finnish "Hra-ca-ca" (most prominently known in Ievan Polkka)
It's an ambiguous example though, as these words don't actually mean anything, they're normally just filler words used for metrical or rhyming purposes in poetic/musical context.
Re: False cognates
Took me a second, because it's not part of the Korpiklaani version of the song, haha, but it's "ratsatsaa". Apparently "hra-ca-ca" is how the "word" is written in the lyrics to a version by Miku Hatsune, which literally takes the bridge of the original, by Loituma, which is entirely meaningless, and uses that as (the basis for?) the lyrics instead.Xonen wrote: ↑15 Nov 2021 20:47I'm not entirely sure what sound the <c> is supposed to stand for here, /ts/? In any case, these might actually be real... "cognates", in that it's probably not a coincidence that the nonsense syllables used in humming and scat singing tend to be broadly similar all across Western music.ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑09 Nov 2021 05:13 Another unusual example:
English "Rat-a-tat" vs Finnish "Hra-ca-ca" (most prominently known in Ievan Polkka)
It's an ambiguous example though, as these words don't actually mean anything, they're normally just filler words used for metrical or rhyming purposes in poetic/musical context.
The bridge in the original was, from what I can find:
"Hilipati hilipati hilipati hillaa,
Hilipati hilipati hilipampaa
Jalituli jallaa talituli jallaa
Tilitali tilitali tilitantaa
Halituli jallaa tilituli tallaa
Tilitili tilitili tilitili tallaa
Halituli tilitali jallati jallan,
Tilitali talitali helevantaa
Rimpatirallaa ripirapirallaa
Rumpatiruppa ripirampuu
Jakkarittaa rippari lapalan
Tulituli lallan tipiran tuu
Jatsu tsappari dikkari dallan
Tittari tillan titstan dullaa,
Dipidapi dallaa ruppati rupiran
Kurikan kukka ja kirikan kuu
Ratsatsaa ja ripidabi dilla
Beritstan dillan dellan doo
A baribbattaa baribbariiba
Ribiribi distan dellan doo
Ja barillas dillan deia dooa
Daba daba daba daba daba duvja vuu
Baristal dillas dillan duu ba daga
Daiga daida duu duu deiga dou"
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: False cognates
Yeah, well, that's more in line with normal Finnish orthography; <c> isn't really used at all, except in proper nouns, where it's usually pronounced /k/ or /s/ (as in English). Now, <c> is used in the Finno-Ugric transcription system for the affricate [ts], so I guess using it to transcribe Finnish scat singing at least... kind of makes sense? But then again, /ts/ is normally pronounced as a cluster in Finnish, not an affricate.sangi39 wrote: ↑15 Nov 2021 22:09Took me a second, because it's not part of the Korpiklaani version of the song, haha, but it's "ratsatsaa".Xonen wrote: ↑15 Nov 2021 20:47I'm not entirely sure what sound the <c> is supposed to stand for here, /ts/? In any case, these might actually be real... "cognates", in that it's probably not a coincidence that the nonsense syllables used in humming and scat singing tend to be broadly similar all across Western music.ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑09 Nov 2021 05:13 Another unusual example:
English "Rat-a-tat" vs Finnish "Hra-ca-ca" (most prominently known in Ievan Polkka)
It's an ambiguous example though, as these words don't actually mean anything, they're normally just filler words used for metrical or rhyming purposes in poetic/musical context.
The bridge might well have been added by Loituma, but the original song is much older: the lyrics (or at least the first printed version of them) were published by Eino Kettunen in 1928, and the melody apparently goes back to at least the 18th century.the bridge of the original, by Loituma