I thought that was because Latin and Greek did not have post-alveolar sounds, so the closest to the Hebrew post-alveolar sibalant was /s/.
False cognates
Re: False cognates
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Re: False cognates
Okay, that's also a good point, but it just occurred to me that there's another argument against a connection between aurum and urre via a non-Italic IE language: the word aurum seems to be specific to Italic. According to Wiktionary, aurum comes from PIE *h₂é-h₂us-o-m, which it doesn't list as having any descendants outside of Italic. *h₂é-h₂us-o-m is derived from the root *h₂ews- "dawn, east". Now, is it possible that an ancient non-Italic IE language also had a word derived from that root that underwent the same semantic shift to "gold" and underwent sound changes to become something resembling urre (or rather urhe, since that seems to be the form of the word in dialects of Basque that retain /h/)? Sure, but it seems fairly unlikely to me (apparently Proto-Tocharian also got its word for "gold" from that root, but the word looks nothing like urhe). I think it's fair to consider them false cognates as long as there's no clear reason to believe that they're cognates?
Re: False cognates
Nederlands &
<pin>
<Pinn>
<pinn> "Pin" VS. Mishnaic
/pijn/ "Pin tumbler lock"
![England :eng:](./images/smilies/icon_eng.gif)
![Germany :deu:](./images/smilies/icon_deu.gif)
![North Rhine-Westphalia :de-nw:](./images/smilies/nordrheinwestfalen.png)
![Israel :isr:](./images/smilies/icon_isr.gif)
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Re: False cognates
English fire v.s. Thai ไฟ /fāj/ "fire"
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: False cognates
Finnish sitten
Swedish sedan
both meaning 'then, subsequently'
Swedish sedan
both meaning 'then, subsequently'
Re: False cognates
Also 'ago'... Which, come to think of it, makes the set of meanings kind of suspiciously specific. This is one of those cases where I'm quite sure that one of the words has influenced the other (ie. Swedish has influenced Finnish, most likely), even if the actual phonological form isn't directly borrowed. Not that phonological similarity would always be even needed for such influence to take place, I guess.
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Re: False cognates
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Re: False cognates
English gas v.s. Finnish kaasu
they sound really similar lol but the English word is from Dutch gas, which in turn is possibly from Ancient Greek χάος (kháos, “chasm, void, empty space”); while the Finnish word is from a Sami language, ultimately from Proto-Uralic *käsä (“dew”)
they sound really similar lol but the English word is from Dutch gas, which in turn is possibly from Ancient Greek χάος (kháos, “chasm, void, empty space”); while the Finnish word is from a Sami language, ultimately from Proto-Uralic *käsä (“dew”)
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: False cognates
![Latin :lat:](./images/smilies/icon_lat.gif)
The latter derives from Proto-Mongolic *ire-, compare
![Mongolia :mon:](./images/smilies/icon_mon.gif)
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
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Re: False cognates
![England :eng:](./images/smilies/icon_eng.gif)
![England :eng:](./images/smilies/icon_eng.gif)
"Verb" of course comes from Latin verbum. "Verbiage" was derived from the Middle French verb verbier/verboier "to trill, warble", itself a derivation of Picard dialect werbler "to sing expressively, trill", which is the origin of English "warble". So "verbiage" has more to do with "warble", and in fact "whirl", than it does with "verb".
Re: False cognates
...huh.Dormouse559 wrote: ↑19 Dec 2020 01:24verbiage
verb
"Verb" of course comes from Latin verbum. "Verbiage" was derived from the Middle French verb verbier/verboier "to trill, warble", itself a derivation of Picard dialect werbler "to sing expressively, trill", which is the origin of English "warble". So "verbiage" has more to do with "warble", and in fact "whirl", than it does with "verb".
Although once again:
Trésor de la langue française informatisé wrote:La proximité phonét. de verbe* a joué un rôle déterminant dans le passage de « chanter, gazouiller » au sens qu'a verbiage.
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Re: False cognates
![Arabic :ara:](./images/smilies/icon_ara.gif)
![Spain :esp:](./images/smilies/icon_esp.gif)
Maybe a bit of a stretch, but it stood out to me.
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Re: False cognates
:
cnota (virtue)
tzniut (modesty)
Not related at all
![Poland :pol:](./images/smilies/icon_pol.gif)
![Israel :isr:](./images/smilies/icon_isr.gif)
Not related at all
Re: False cognates
Not at all a stretch! In fact, I'm quite sure I've seen the possibility of a connection between these two debated multiple times on several different fora.GrandPiano wrote: ↑06 Jan 2021 07:09أستاذ ʾustāḏ "professor, teacher, title of courtesy for an individual of higher education or learning"
usted "you (respectful)"
Maybe a bit of a stretch, but it stood out to me.
They're extremely similar both phonetically and in actual use (if not in original meaning), the Spanish shortening from vuestra merced to usted doesn't follow directly from any regular sound changes, and Arabic was spoken in Spain for several centuries – so it's definitely tempting to assume a connection. But I can't recall seeing any actual proof one way or the other.
Re: False cognates
Informal writing and comments on the language by non-natives from the 17th century shows a wild variety of colloquial reductions of vuestra usted into fewer syllables.Xonen wrote: ↑09 Jan 2021 19:40Not at all a stretch! In fact, I'm quite sure I've seen the possibility of a connection between these two debated multiple times on several different fora.
They're extremely similar both phonetically and in actual use (if not in original meaning), the Spanish shortening from vuestra merced to usted doesn't follow directly from any regular sound changes, and Arabic was spoken in Spain for several centuries – so it's definitely tempting to assume a connection. But I can't recall seeing any actual proof one way or the other.
From Coromines & Pascual's etymological dictionary (vol. Ri-X, page 844), with the year of the first attestation they knew about (note that I had to find the year of publication of the three fiction books myself):
- vuesasted, 1597
- vuasted, 1617
- vusted, 1619
- usted, 1620
- bosanzé, 1620 (Lope de Vega, Pedro Carbonero, portrayed as said by (ex-)Muslims)
- vuesarced, 1621
- voazé, 1625 (Vélez de Guevara, El Rey en su imagen, portrayed as criminal cant)
- vucé, 1626
- vuarced, ca. 1630
- boxanxé (pronounce: [boʃanˈʃe]), ca. 1631 (Quevedo, Libro de todas las cosas y otras muchas más, portrayed as said by (ex-)Muslims)
- vuested, 1635
- voarced, 1635
- vusté (in Quiñones de Benavente, died 1651)
Spanish could've ended up with something that resembled Arabic ʔustaað less.
Last edited by Sequor on 30 Jan 2021 19:24, edited 1 time in total.
hīc sunt linguificēs. hēr bēoþ tungemakeras.
Re: False cognates
Note that Jews living in Poland would have pronounced the
![Israel :isr:](./images/smilies/icon_isr.gif)
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Re: False cognates
![Arabic :ara:](./images/smilies/icon_ara.gif)
![Italy :ita:](./images/smilies/icon_ita.gif)
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Re: False cognates
Czech maso "flesh, meat" v.s. English muscle
the words sound kinda similar(and l > o/u can happen diachronically) and the semantics are also related, but they are not cognates.
the words sound kinda similar(and l > o/u can happen diachronically) and the semantics are also related, but they are not cognates.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: False cognates
![China (PRC) :chn:](./images/smilies/icon_zhe.gif)
![Japan :jpn:](./images/smilies/icon_nip.gif)
![England :eng:](./images/smilies/icon_eng.gif)
liú lí and ruri are both remarkably similar sounding to lazuli but are etymologically unrelated. The Chinese and Japanese word comes from Sanskrit while the English one comes from Persian.
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Re: False cognates
I seriously thought (still think?) “lazuli” had etymology in common with “azure”?
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