False cognates

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Shemtov
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov »

On that note ,Cantonese /hyːn³⁵/ Danish <hund> /hun/ both "Dog"
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Re: False cognates

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Shemtov wrote:
10 Apr 2019 06:55
On that note ,Cantonese /hyːn³⁵/ Danish <hund> /hun/ both "Dog"
As noted in the previous post, these may be true cognates (Cantonese hyun2 is cognate with Japanese ken, and Danish hund is cognate with Italian cane).
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: False cognates

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GrandPiano wrote:
11 Apr 2019 04:55
Shemtov wrote:
10 Apr 2019 06:55
On that note ,Cantonese /hyːn³⁵/ Danish <hund> /hun/ both "Dog"
As noted in the previous post, these may be true cognates (Cantonese hyun2 is cognate with Japanese ken, and Danish hund is cognate with Italian cane).
The Wiktionary entry doesn't explain how the IE and the ST words. It says that the ST word is probably a Wanderwort with Hmong-Mien and Austronesian, but does not mention how it got to (or from) IE. It seems to be suggesting the possibility, however slight, that PIE word has connections, but may be acknowledging it as a false cognate. Wiktionary gives the alternate theory that PIE *k'wo and *pek'u (ancestor of :deu: <Viech>) go back to a single Pre-PIE root.
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y »

just found this:

Vietnamese hố "hole,pit" v.s. English hole

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/hố#Vietnamese

also Vietnamese lỗ "hole" v.s. Standard German Loch "hole, pit"

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/lỗ
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

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Re: False cognates

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Shemtov wrote:
11 Apr 2019 06:50
GrandPiano wrote:
11 Apr 2019 04:55
Shemtov wrote:
10 Apr 2019 06:55
On that note ,Cantonese /hyːn³⁵/ Danish <hund> /hun/ both "Dog"
As noted in the previous post, these may be true cognates (Cantonese hyun2 is cognate with Japanese ken, and Danish hund is cognate with Italian cane).
The Wiktionary entry doesn't explain how the IE and the ST words. It says that the ST word is probably a Wanderwort with Hmong-Mien and Austronesian, but does not mention how it got to (or from) IE. It seems to be suggesting the possibility, however slight, that PIE word has connections, but may be acknowledging it as a false cognate. Wiktionary gives the alternate theory that PIE *k'wo and *pek'u (ancestor of :deu: <Viech>) go back to a single Pre-PIE root.
I was just saying that they may be related. It seems like we don’t know for sure whether they are.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: False cognates

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This are racist slurs, for a group that isn't mine but when I learned they weren't related, it blew my mind, so please don't shoot me:
:eng:Ching-Chong; Chink; Both racist slurs for East Asians. I always thought the latter was a corruption of the first syllable of the former- my English doesn't allow coda /ŋ/, but rather it's pronounced as [ŋğ̚] (or it could be a post-stopped /ŋ/, not sure) so I though <Chink> came from speakers of similar dialects devoicing the /g/ of <Ching>, but it comes from racists saying "Their eyes look like chinks in a wall"
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Re: False cognates

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I've always thought it was some kind of derogatory deformation of "Chinese". These are really common in the Balkans (for neighboring peoples, that is...)
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov »

Zekoslav wrote:
21 May 2019 15:28
I've always thought it was some kind of derogatory deformation of "Chinese". These are really common in the Balkans (for neighboring peoples, that is...)
I thought that too, but then I realized "then where does the velar(s) come from?"
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Re: False cognates

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Shemtov wrote:
21 May 2019 03:22
This are racist slurs, for a group that isn't mine but when I learned they weren't related, it blew my mind, so please don't shoot me:
:eng:Ching-Chong; Chink; Both racist slurs for East Asians. I always thought the latter was a corruption of the first syllable of the former- my English doesn't allow coda /ŋ/, but rather it's pronounced as [ŋğ̚] (or it could be a post-stopped /ŋ/, not sure) so I though <Chink> came from speakers of similar dialects devoicing the /g/ of <Ching>, but it comes from racists saying "Their eyes look like chinks in a wall"
You, sir, are incorrect. English has three pronunciations for the velar nasal [ŋ] (cf. sing), [ŋk] (cf. sink), and [ŋg] (cf. finger).
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Re: False cognates

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yangfiretiger121 wrote:
28 May 2019 17:27
Shemtov wrote:
21 May 2019 03:22
This are racist slurs, for a group that isn't mine but when I learned they weren't related, it blew my mind, so please don't shoot me:
:eng:Ching-Chong; Chink; Both racist slurs for East Asians. I always thought the latter was a corruption of the first syllable of the former- my English doesn't allow coda /ŋ/, but rather it's pronounced as [ŋğ̚] (or it could be a post-stopped /ŋ/, not sure) so I though <Chink> came from speakers of similar dialects devoicing the /g/ of <Ching>, but it comes from racists saying "Their eyes look like chinks in a wall"
You, sir, are incorrect. English has three pronunciations for the velar nasal [ŋ] (cf. sing), [ŋk] (cf. sink), and [ŋg] (cf. finger).
No, I'm talking about my dialect, and I know there are other dialects that do it, where [ŋ] doesn't exist, it's always [ŋg], perhaps [ŋˑg], though the form [ŋˑg]] is not unknown, especially before a stop or affricate. English is not monolithic.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: False cognates

Post by yangfiretiger121 »

Shemtov wrote:
28 May 2019 23:46
yangfiretiger121 wrote:
28 May 2019 17:27
Shemtov wrote:
21 May 2019 03:22
This are racist slurs, for a group that isn't mine but when I learned they weren't related, it blew my mind, so please don't shoot me:
:eng:Ching-Chong; Chink; Both racist slurs for East Asians. I always thought the latter was a corruption of the first syllable of the former- my English doesn't allow coda /ŋ/, but rather it's pronounced as [ŋğ̚] (or it could be a post-stopped /ŋ/, not sure) so I though <Chink> came from speakers of similar dialects devoicing the /g/ of <Ching>, but it comes from racists saying "Their eyes look like chinks in a wall"
You, sir, are incorrect. English has three pronunciations for the velar nasal [ŋ] (cf. sing), [ŋk] (cf. sink), and [ŋg] (cf. finger).
No, I'm talking about my dialect, and I know there are other dialects that do it, where [ŋ] doesn't exist, it's always [ŋg], perhaps [ŋˑg], though the form [ŋˑg]] is not unknown, especially before a stop or affricate. English is not monolithic.
I, really, oughta read stuff closer before posting as I missed "my."
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Re: False cognates

Post by Vlürch »

:eng: quick
Old Chinese /*qʰʷaːɡ/ - quickly, suddenly

Maybe it's a bit of a stretch, but they do have similar meanings and velars and uvulars aren't that different. Also, even though I don't know of one, I wouldn't be too surprised if there was some English dialect where "quick" is pronounced [kwɑːk] or [kwæk]; I mean, if [ɪ] -> [æ] can happen before /ŋ/ for some people, why not before /k/ since it's also velar?

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Re: False cognates

Post by All4Ɇn »

Although both of these words ultimately derive their first element from the same Indo-European root, they both derive it from different words in Latin and so I think they still count as false cognates

:bra: para "for" (from Latin per + ad)
:esp: para "for" (from Latin pro + ad)

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Re: False cognates

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just found this:

Aymara malku "king" v.s. the word for "king" in Semitic languages e.g. Hebrew מֶלֶךְ‏ (mélekh) "king" and Arabic مَلِك (malik) "king"
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

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Re: False cognates

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k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jun 2019 08:56
just found this:

Aymara malku "king" v.s. the word for "king" in Semitic languages e.g. Hebrew מֶלֶךְ‏ (mélekh) "king" and Arabic مَلِك (malik) "king"
Yes, I once found this in a list of bogus etymologies adduced as evidence for Atlantis. Another example is Nahuatl teotl 'god' vs. Latin deus and Greek theos - the latter two being also a pair of false cognates.
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Re: False cognates

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Japanese 治す(naosu) "to cure, to heal" v.s. English nurse
WeepingElf wrote:
20 Jun 2019 18:33
k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jun 2019 08:56
just found this:

Aymara malku "king" v.s. the word for "king" in Semitic languages e.g. Hebrew מֶלֶךְ‏ (mélekh) "king" and Arabic مَلِك (malik) "king"
Yes, I once found this in a list of bogus etymologies adduced as evidence for Atlantis. Another example is Nahuatl teotl 'god' vs. Latin deus and Greek theos - the latter two being also a pair of false cognates.
ok thanks for telling (:
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

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Re: False cognates

Post by WeepingElf »

k1234567890y wrote:
24 Jun 2019 19:48
Japanese 治す(naosu) "to cure, to heal" v.s. English nurse
WeepingElf wrote:
20 Jun 2019 18:33
k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jun 2019 08:56
just found this:

Aymara malku "king" v.s. the word for "king" in Semitic languages e.g. Hebrew מֶלֶךְ‏ (mélekh) "king" and Arabic مَلِك (malik) "king"
Yes, I once found this in a list of bogus etymologies adduced as evidence for Atlantis. Another example is Nahuatl teotl 'god' vs. Latin deus and Greek theos - the latter two being also a pair of false cognates.
ok thanks for telling (:
This becomes evident once you know the Indo-European sound correspondences - an initial /d/ in Latin never corresponds to a Greek /th/. The PIE antecedents are *deiwos for deus and *dhesos for theos. That's two different roots; in PIE, *d and *dh are two distinct phonemes which have nothing more to do with each other than either does with *t. Indeed, each of the two words has cognates in the other language: the Greek cognate of Latin deus is the name Zeus, and the Latin cognate of Greek theos is the fes- in the word festus, the source of English feast.
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y »

English LOL v.s. Dutch lol "fun"(attested as early as 1560s) v.s. Welsh lol "nonsense, ridiculous"
WeepingElf wrote:
28 Jun 2019 14:34
k1234567890y wrote:
24 Jun 2019 19:48
Japanese 治す(naosu) "to cure, to heal" v.s. English nurse
WeepingElf wrote:
20 Jun 2019 18:33
k1234567890y wrote:
19 Jun 2019 08:56
just found this:

Aymara malku "king" v.s. the word for "king" in Semitic languages e.g. Hebrew מֶלֶךְ‏ (mélekh) "king" and Arabic مَلِك (malik) "king"
Yes, I once found this in a list of bogus etymologies adduced as evidence for Atlantis. Another example is Nahuatl teotl 'god' vs. Latin deus and Greek theos - the latter two being also a pair of false cognates.
ok thanks for telling (:
This becomes evident once you know the Indo-European sound correspondences - an initial /d/ in Latin never corresponds to a Greek /th/. The PIE antecedents are *deiwos for deus and *dhesos for theos. That's two different roots; in PIE, *d and *dh are two distinct phonemes which have nothing more to do with each other than either does with *t. Indeed, each of the two words has cognates in the other language: the Greek cognate of Latin deus is the name Zeus, and the Latin cognate of Greek theos is the fes- in the word festus, the source of English feast.
ok (:
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

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Re: False cognates

Post by Nortaneous »

In wordlists of North Bougainville languages, "boat" is almost always given as boato.

Most words were given in the "definite" (it's not actually a definite, but 1950s missionaries were bad at naming things -- words can take the "definite" and the "indefinite" at the same time! unfortunately, they were also bad at describing things, so I don't think anyone's sure what it is), and the "definite article" is /bo-/. The root is just /ato/.

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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov »

:hun: Nő "Woman" vs. the Mandarin, Shanghainese and Xiang pronounciation (without tones) of :chn: 女 "Female", /ny/
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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