Xonen wrote:is palatalization
Eh.
Xonen wrote:As for /ʃ/ and /t͡ʃ/, those are typical in Karelian, but where do they occur in Savonian?
Well, I don't really know if anyone in my family speaks any actual "dialects" rather than some weird ass mixture, but like, my dad pronounces (and his dad pronounced) some words with /ts/ in them with [t͡ʃ], and I personally even have some difficulty telling where syllables separate in words with "ts" in them; if I say "metsä", it's either [me.t͡ʃæ~met.t͡ʃæ~met͡ʃ.t͡ʃæ] or [met.tæ~me.tːæ~met.tːæ~metː.tæ~metː.tːæ]. Usually the latter, which is weird because no one I know pronounces it like that and it's western as fuck... but I can't get rid of it, it's just the easiest pronunciation of the word for me. If I try to pronounce the "ts" as /ts/, it'll come out as [me.t͡sæ~met.t͡sæ~met͡s.t͡sæ] and no matter what, I just can't pronounce it [met.sæ] naturally. It's not a big difference, of course, and doesn't even have any potential for being misunderstood as any other word, but the thing with every word with /ts/ is that it feels really weird for my tongue to articulate the /t/ and /s/ separately.
...maybe I was Swedish in a past life.
Xonen wrote:(for example, if "kiersin", standardly [kie̯rsin], is pronounced more like [kjærsin] or [kʲeæ̯rɕin] or whatever)
Again, not a typical Savonian feature, at least according to the literature; rather, you should get
keänsin or
kiänsin for Standard
käänsin (
kiärsin for
kiersin would, instead, be a typical Southwestern form, but in that case, the /k/ should probably not be palatalized).
Interestingly, if I say "käänsin" instinctionally in a non-standard "dialectal" way, it
is something like [kʲiæ̯nsin~kʲeæ̯nsin]... but I mean, I've grown up in Helsinki with only summers in Savonranta until gradually less and less as I was 15-18, and I make sure to speak as standardly as I can even with my closest relatives because they also do that, as does literally everyone else. Any kind of "dialectal" things feel really embarrassing, so... yeah, my super relaxed speech would probably just be a mix of stuff I've caught in the random embarrassing non-standard slips from everyone.
Xonen wrote:Then again, I'm mostly going by what I've read on the subject, and that can be a few decades out of date, as well as largely based on the field notes of a few individual researchers... Maybe we'd need someone to do a big new phonetic study of Finnish dialects in the 21st century, with proper measuring equipment and whatnot.
Yeah, it'd be interesting and useful if someone did something like that, but you know... no one has any interest in Finnish dialects, especially when they're taught to be wrong since kindergarten and kids are "corrected" if they pronounce anything in a non-standard manner...