Which Dialect is This?

[HoskhMatriarch]

"I wonder which dialect is this supposed to be that this is standard in".

Which dialect(s) is that?

Also, feel free to ask about anything you're wondering what dialect it is.

[Thrice Xandvii]

I don't understand what you're asking. What you wrote sounds like something that happens in speech all the time! Have you ever read direct transcripts of people speaking unprepared speeches, or of interviews? People start and re-start sentences and talk over themselves and stop and start thoughts in mid-stream all the time. Most times, you won't even notice it. It looks to me like you posted an example of that. (In fact, it seems like you did a similar thing in the last sentence of your post!)

[HoskhMatriarch]

I don't understand what you're asking. What you wrote sounds like something that happens in speech all the time! Have you ever read direct transcripts of people speaking unprepared speeches, or of interviews? People start and re-start sentences and talk over themselves and stop and start thoughts in mid-stream all the time. Most times, you won't even notice it. It looks to me like you posted an example of that. (In fact, it seems like you did a similar thing in the last sentence of your post!)

Well, apparently the first example I posted is "non-standard English" according to some linguistics assignment I'm doing. I was wondering what dialect it could be since it really strongly looks like V2 syntax. Also, I hear things like it all the time and I've used it before, so I'm thinking it might be the local dialect or something close.

[Creyeditor]

I think you both are right. It happens all the time in unprepared speech, but there is only a subset of dialects, that can accept this sentence as grammatically correct all the time. There's similar fun in German dialect syntax.

[HoskhMatriarch]

I think you both are right. It happens all the time in unprepared speech, but there is only a subset of dialects, that can accept this sentence as grammatically correct all the time. There's similar fun in German dialect syntax.

Yes, like the Kiezdeutsch example I read once, I'm not sure what it was, but they put both the subject and an adverb or something before the verb instead of putting it in the 2nd position.

As for unprepared speech, I've said obviously ungrammatical things before in unprepared speech, like "There is reasons" and "I'm going to the Kaufman Hall". That doesn't make those grammtical in my dialect or even my idiolect, that just means I said some ungrammatical things by accident. On the other hand, "I wonder, which dialect of English is this standard in, because I've heard it before" is just grammatical (but with the comma there, it looks a bit less like V2).

[Prinsessa]

I seem to have generalised "there's" (but not "there is", i.e. "there's many reasons" sounds fine but "there is many reasons" does not) even when talking about plural things even tho I know that it's really "incorrect", and as a non-native I'm still quite sure I picked this up passively from natives.

[Thrice Xandvii]

Yeah, "there's" is kinda weird that way (along with a bunch of other contractions) that are basically reanalyzed as verbs in their own rights with invariable forms. Almost as if "there's" is a new coinage that means "to exist, to be there" (though I'd posit a cooler looking form with no apostrophe were it to become a real thing: theyrs, maybe?)

[Creyeditor]

Okay, here is an example from German:

Standard German
*Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?

Dialect X
Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?


If the sentence above is standard (according to 37), then maybe there is a subset of dialects where it is ungrammatical?

[HoskhMatriarch]

Okay, here is an example from German:

Standard German
*Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?

Dialect X
Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?


If the sentence above is standard (according to 37), then maybe there is a subset of dialects where it is ungrammatical?

Which dialect is this example from?

[Salmoneus]

You know, I'm an SSBE speaker whose language could well be called 'old-fashioned', 'literary', and/or 'posh'... and to me, the OP quotation is fine. It threw me at first because I gave it the wrong intonation pattern, but having worked it out, it seems fine.

Yes, i know that the more formal, literary thing would be to invert 'this' and 'is', but in actual speech that's perfectly good English to me. I'd actually feel more qualms about the stranded preposition than about the inversion.


If in doubt, try adding stress and context:

"It's not standard in that dialect either? Huh. I wonder which dialect is this supposed to be that this is standard in..."

Or add a pause: "I wonder - which dialect is this supposed to be that this is standard in?" ... and then just reduce the pause to a level you feel happy not marking it through punctuation.

[Creyeditor]

Okay, here is an example from German:

Standard German
*Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?

Dialect X
Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?


If the sentence above is standard (according to 37), then maybe there is a subset of dialects where it is ungrammatical?

Which dialect is this example from?

Actually, idk, but it is the example that linguists always use. I have to ask someone who is an expert on this.

[HoskhMatriarch]

Okay, here is an example from German:

Standard German
*Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?

Dialect X
Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?


If the sentence above is standard (according to 37), then maybe there is a subset of dialects where it is ungrammatical?

Which dialect is this example from?

Actually, idk, but it is the example that linguists always use. I have to ask someone who is an expert on this.

I guess we could make a thread on the German board about dialects. My German is not great (well, it's probably pretty good for someone who has never been to a German-speaking country) but I posted there already so why not (even though I'm not sure I was understood all that well with what I posted since people didn't even look at the example I linked to).

[Creyeditor]

We did understand you, and offer you another version of this example, that shows that the sentence actually has an expletive subject.

[HoskhMatriarch]

We did understand you, and offer you another version of this example, that shows that the sentence actually has an expletive subject.

Yes, I knew the sentence had an expletive subject, mostly I just wanted to know what people thought of the um... zu thing. But this thread isn't that thread.

[Adarain]

Okay, here is an example from German:

Standard German
*Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?

Dialect X
Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?


If the sentence above is standard (according to 37), then maybe there is a subset of dialects where it is ungrammatical?

Which dialect is this example from?

It works just fine in mine, so something southern, I presume. I can't even think of another way to phrase it.

[HoskhMatriarch]

Okay, here is an example from German:

Standard German
*Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?

Dialect X
Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?


If the sentence above is standard (according to 37), then maybe there is a subset of dialects where it is ungrammatical?

Which dialect is this example from?

It works just fine in mine, so something southern, I presume. I can't even think of another way to phrase it.

It's probably Wen denkst du sie hieratet (edit: now I think about it, that's obviously wrong, except it might be OK in some dialect, who knows). The one you use is really close to English though, since in English people would say "who do you think that she marries" (although "who do you think she marries" is also fine).

[Adarain]

That would also be ungrammatical for me, in my dialect, you can't use the indicative there (we still use the subjunctive).

[ixals]

Okay, here is an example from German:

Standard German
*Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?

Dialect X
Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?

If the sentence above is standard (according to 37), then maybe there is a subset of dialects where it is ungrammatical?

Which dialect is this example from?

It works just fine in mine, so something southern, I presume. I can't even think of another way to phrase it.

Yeah, that might be something southern because I'm living in the north and the example sounds terrible to my ear. I think I'd only hear "Wen denkst du, heiratet sie?" here.

[Creyeditor]

Okay, here is an example from German:

Standard German
*Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?

Dialect X
Wen denkst du, dass sie heiratet?
who.ACC think.2SG 2SG.NOM COMPL
(?) Who do you think, she marries?

If the sentence above is standard (according to 37), then maybe there is a subset of dialects where it is ungrammatical?

Which dialect is this example from?

It works just fine in mine, so something southern, I presume. I can't even think of another way to phrase it.

Yeah, that might be something southern because I'm living in the north and the example sounds terrible to my ear. I think I'd only hear "Wen denkst du, heiratet sie?" here.

Same here.

[Qxentio]

Yeah, that might be something southern because I'm living in the north and the example sounds terrible to my ear. I think I'd only hear "Wen denkst du, heiratet sie?" here.

I'm from up north too, and I'd probably rather say something like "Wen dengste, heiratetse?". But it doesn't sound completely foreign either. I could see it being produced by pretty much anyone around here, especially if the sentence is a bit more complicated.