I've noticed that Kuwaiti (and Southern Iraqi and most of the Gulf) dialects have something interesting going on with conditionals which is quite different from MSA. Conditionals in MSA have always felt quite weird to me.
In Iraqi/Kuwaiti, čān /ʧɑ:n/ is used with a verb in past, which comes from kāna (he/it was), but is now invariable.
lo fīh xēr, čān ma rāħ
if in.him good, COND neg go.PAST
'If he was good, he wouldn't have gone'
lo rāħat, čān šāfit-ik
if go.PAST.3F COND see.PAST.3F-you.ACC
'If she went, she would have seen you'
When used with the present, it has the meaning of 'in the past he/she would (often)...'
limma kān fil kwēt, čān iyiy bēt-ī
when was.PAST.3SG in Kuwait, COND 3SG.come house-my
'When he was in Kuwait, he would come to my house'
It can also have the meaning of 'and then' especially with the verb 'to say'.
čān agūl...
COND 1SG.say
'and then I said...'
čān aṭālʕ-ah čidhī...
COND 1SG.see-he.ACC like.this
'then I looked at him like this...'
This is interesting because kān (without k>č) is also used with the more usual meaning.
kān rāħ
be.PAST.3SG go.PAST.3SG
'he had gone' (although I think kān as an auxiliary is far less common in Gulf than MSA used like this)
I thought this might be of interest if anybody wanted examples of how conditionals could arise. In this case, an invariable form of 'to be' effectively becomes a pre-verbal conditional particle.
Arabic Conditionals
Arabic Conditionals
Last edited by Davush on 17 Mar 2017 14:58, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Arabic Conditionals
I'm interested in this, but I don't know Arabic really at all. Do you think you could provide glosses for those sentences?
Re: Arabic Conditionals
My glossing ability isn't the best (and Arabic being non-catenative doesn't help), but I hope that gives you a better idea.clawgrip wrote:I'm interested in this, but I don't know Arabic really at all. Do you think you could provide glosses for those sentences?
Re: Arabic Conditionals
Conditionals often arise from past forms.
What is your source or Kuwaiti Arabic?
What is your source or Kuwaiti Arabic?
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
Re: Arabic Conditionals
Time spent in Kuwait and native speakers of Gulf dialects around me.Omzinesý wrote:Conditionals often arise from past forms.
What is your source or Kuwaiti Arabic?
What I thought was interesting was how it became 'fossilised' in the 3rd person masculine form, with the common change k>ʧ, whereas the 'full' form does not (usually) appear with ʧ.
Re: Arabic Conditionals
Since you contrasted it with MSA, mind also explaining how they work in MSA (and other dialects you're aware of how they work)?
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
Re: Arabic Conditionals
You can use backslash (\) for grammatical changes involving non-concatenation; e.g. feet -> foot\PLDavush wrote:My glossing ability isn't the best (and Arabic being non-catenative doesn't help), but I hope that gives you a better idea.clawgrip wrote:I'm interested in this, but I don't know Arabic really at all. Do you think you could provide glosses for those sentences?
Re: Arabic Conditionals
MSA uses the particle 'la' (which also has other functions).Adarain wrote:Since you contrasted it with MSA, mind also explaining how they work in MSA (and other dialects you're aware of how they work)?
MSA: law qaraʔta hādha l-kitāba, la-fahimta l-mawḍhūʕa.
Gulf: lo garēt hādha l-kitāb, čān fihimt l-mawḍhūʔ.
If you had read this book, you would understand/have understood the issue.
As far as I'm aware, Egyptian and other dialects just use 'to be' (kān) inflected for person and number as usual:
Egyptian: law kunt aʕrif da , kunt ʔult-lak (kunt is the 1st person past of 'kān').
if 1SG.was 1SG.know that, 1SG.was 1SG.told you
Gulf: lo kint adrī dhāk, čān gilt-lik
If I had known that, I would have told you