Surprising cognates

A forum for discussing linguistics or just languages in general.
User avatar
Aszev
admin
admin
Posts: 1375
Joined: 11 May 2010 05:46
Location: ꜱᴇ

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Aszev »

Apparently Irish and Scottish Gaelic fáilte/fàilte 'welcome' are cognate with English well and will (which are also cognate with each other)!

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 3000
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 04:06

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov »

:eng: odious :eng: odyssey, from PIE **h₃ed-. "to hate", as it seems Odysseus's name meant "Hated One".
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 3000
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 04:06

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov »

:eng: Score, Shear. Both from PIE *sker, the former being the o-grade (and of Norse origin).
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 3864
Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Creyeditor »

Moni (TNG, Indonesia) /zu/ 'boy, son' and Mee (TNG, Indonesia) /joka/ 'child'. These really don't look similar, but Moni lost intervocalic *k and fortified j>z. And of course the vowels did something crazy as they always do.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :idn: 4 :fra: 4 :esp:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 3000
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 04:06

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov »

:eng: Christ, Grime. Both from PIE *gʰrēy "to smear".
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 3000
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 04:06

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov »

:eng: N*gger; (Film) Noir, both from Latin <niger>. If you believe the putative theory that the Latin is from some weird reflex of PIE *nókʷts, then we can include :eng: "Night" and all of its IE cognates.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 3000
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 04:06

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov »

:eng: Blue, Black, Blank, Flame, Blink, :deu: Bleich "Pale" :fra: Blanc :esp: Blanco et. al. "White" :grc: φλόξ /pʰloks/ "Flame" :fra: Flou :esp: :ita: :por: Flavo "yellow" :rus: белый /bʲelɨj/ :pol: biały et. al. "Blue" :ind: (Sanskrit) भर्ग /bʱarga/ "Splendor".
All from PIE *bʰel "flash; brightness"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 3000
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 04:06

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov »

:eng: "clan" "plant"
:lat: <planta> "shoot" >(Borrowed) O. :eng: M. :eng: <plante> > ;eng; <Plant>
:lat: <planta> "shoot" >(Borrowed) O. :wls: <Plant> "Children"> (borrowed) O. :irl: <Cland> > :sco: <Clann> > (Borrowed) :eng: <Clan>
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

User avatar
Znex
roman
roman
Posts: 970
Joined: 12 Aug 2013 14:05
Location: Australia

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Znex »

:eng: long since
:sco: lang syne
:swe: längesen
Well maybe it's not that surprising.
:eng: : [tick] | :grc: :wls: : [:|] | :chn: :isr: : [:S] | :nor: :deu: :rom: :ind: :con: : [:x]
Conlangs: Pofp'ash, Ikwawese, Old Quelgic, Nisukil Pʰakwi, Apsiska

User avatar
Void
sinic
sinic
Posts: 296
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 16:15
Location: Taqlarmakan
Contact:

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Void »

:isr: שור šōr /ʃor/ - "bull"

:fin: teuras - "animal for slaughter"

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 3000
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 04:06

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov »

Void wrote:
27 Feb 2018 12:49
:isr: שור šōr /ʃor/ - "bull"

:fin: teuras - "animal for slaughter"
I would put "theoretical" as it is unknown how the PIE source for the :fin: borrowing, *táwros relates to Proto-Semitic *θawr
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

GrandPiano
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2096
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by GrandPiano »

:eng: attach
:eng: attack

Frankish *stakka "stick" → :fra: Old French estache "stick" → atachier "to attach" → :eng: attach
                                    → (possible intermediate steps) → :ita: attaccare "to attach; to attack" (as in attaccare battaglia "to join battle") → :fra: attaquer "to attack" → :eng: attack

(I got these etymologies from Wiktionary, so they may be somewhat inaccurate. Wiktionary is somewhat unclear about the etymology of Italian attaccare, but it seems to ultimately derive from Old French attachier via a long series of intermediate steps.)
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 3864
Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Creyeditor »

Via PGmc this is probably also cognate with stick right?
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :idn: 4 :fra: 4 :esp:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]

GrandPiano
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2096
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by GrandPiano »

Creyeditor wrote:
01 Mar 2018 18:42
Via PGmc this is probably also cognate with stick right?
Wiktionary doesn’t say, but that does seem very likely. If that is the case, then that makes three surprising cognates.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

User avatar
Pabappa
sinic
sinic
Posts: 371
Joined: 18 Nov 2017 02:41
Contact:

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Pabappa »

If so I want to add :fra: étiquette & English ticket.... maybe not too surprising to those of us accustomed to french loanword patterns, but I find it amusing, particularly how it boomeranged back to us.
I'll take the theses, and you can have the thoses.

Nortaneous
greek
greek
Posts: 616
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 13:28

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Nortaneous »

More Chinese-English cognates:

轂 gu3 'nave of a wheel' < OC *kok ~ TB kokale 'wheel' < PIE *kʷekʷlo- > Eng. wheel
鞹 kuo4 'leather' < OC *khwak ~ TA kʷāc- 'leather' < PIE *kuH-ti- > Eng. hide
厄 e4 'yoke' < OC *qˤr(i/e)k ~ PIE *h3reǵ- > Eng. rake, reckon, rank, rich, drake, etc.
垣 yuan2 'wall, city' < OC *ɢʷan ~ TB want- 'envelop, surround' < PIE *wendh- > Eng. wind, wend (but Baxter-Sagart has *ɢʷar-)

And another Chinese-IE cognate:
里 li3 'village' < OC *C-rəʔ ~ PIE *wriH-eh2 > TB riye 'city', Thracian bria 'polis'

There are more here, but I left them out because finding the Chinese characters for them was too hard. There's also a 73-page thesis that I haven't read yet.

GrandPiano
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2096
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by GrandPiano »

Nortaneous wrote:
04 Mar 2018 13:46
More Chinese-English cognates:

轂 gu3 'nave of a wheel' < OC *kok ~ TB kokale 'wheel' < PIE *kʷekʷlo- > Eng. wheel
鞹 kuo4 'leather' < OC *khwak ~ TA kʷāc- 'leather' < PIE *kuH-ti- > Eng. hide
厄 e4 'yoke' < OC *qˤr(i/e)k ~ PIE *h3reǵ- > Eng. rake, reckon, rank, rich, drake, etc.
垣 yuan2 'wall, city' < OC *ɢʷan ~ TB want- 'envelop, surround' < PIE *wendh- > Eng. wind, wend (but Baxter-Sagart has *ɢʷar-)

And another Chinese-IE cognate:
里 li3 'village' < OC *C-rəʔ ~ PIE *wriH-eh2 > TB riye 'city', Thracian bria 'polis'

There are more here, but I left them out because finding the Chinese characters for them was too hard. There's also a 73-page thesis that I haven't read yet.
Wow, I never would have expected that some of these were IE borrowings... 里 is especially surprising.

(By the way, it seems that the “yoke” sense of 厄 is typially written 軛 nowadays)
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 3000
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 04:06

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov »

Thanks to Xonen in the False Friends thread for sending me down this rabbit-hole (pun intended):
:eng: <Cony>; Basque (where is the flag?) <untxi> "Rabbit"
Proto-Basque (or a lost Vasconic cognate) *(H)unči >(Borrowed) :lat: <cuniculus> > Vulg :lat: *cuniclus > :fr-no: Conil, Plr Conis> :eng: Cony
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

User avatar
Vlürch
sinic
sinic
Posts: 300
Joined: 09 Mar 2016 21:19
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Vlürch »

Shemtov wrote:
07 Mar 2018 14:30
(where is the flag?)
It's "es-pv", :es-pv:

Sorry, I don't have any surprising cognates right now.

User avatar
Pabappa
sinic
sinic
Posts: 371
Joined: 18 Nov 2017 02:41
Contact:

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Pabappa »

:eng: skunk = :eng: Chicago, both from different languages' form of the same word for skunk, which is a nominal derivation from the verb for "urinate". It seems Chicago was named after the wild onions that grew there, not after skunks or urine ... perhaps they saw something similar in the aroma?
I'll take the theses, and you can have the thoses.

Post Reply