(L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

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eldin raigmore
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore »

What does Schwippschwager mean?
What does Schwappschwager mean?
What does Schwippschwappschwager mean?

What does stiefbruder mean?
What does milchbruder mean?
What does stiefmilchbruder mean?
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Creyeditor
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Creyeditor »

A Schwippschwager is my sibling-in-law's spouse. So it's either my spouse's sibling's spouse or my sibling's spouse's sibling.

A Stiefbruder is just a step-brother. I have not heard the other terms before.

But I can add the Schwippscousin or Schwippskusine, which I have seen used for second cousins.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by WeepingElf »

A Milchbruder 'milk brother' is someone raised by the same wet-nurse. It is as obsolete, though, as the institution of a wet-nurse (a woman who gives her milk to other children). Schwappschwager doesn't exist.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore »

@WeepingElf,Creyeditor:
Thanks!
….
@WeepingElf:
Is there a term for foster-brother?
I thought perhaps milchbruder might have that as a more up-to-date meaning.

@Creyeditor:
Are there terms with meanings similar to
spouse’s sibling’s spouse’s sibling
or to
sibling’s spouse’s sibling’s spouse
?
(I’ve seen a need for those in the lit. I’ve actually partied with my wife’s sister’s husband’s brother.)

What about five-step affines, like
sibling’s spouse’s sibling’s spouse’s sibling
or
spouse’s sibling’s spouse’s sibling’s spouse?
?
(I’m not sure I’ve ever read about any need for these terms; at least not often. Especially the triply-affine one.)
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by WeepingElf »

'Foster-brother' is Ziehbruder (as 'forster-son' is Ziehsohn etc.)
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Creyeditor »

eldin raigmore wrote: 25 Oct 2021 18:05 @Creyeditor:
Are there terms with meanings similar to
spouse’s sibling’s spouse’s sibling
or to
sibling’s spouse’s sibling’s spouse
?
(I’ve seen a need for those in the lit. I’ve actually partied with my wife’s sister’s husband’s brother.)

What about five-step affines, like
sibling’s spouse’s sibling’s spouse’s sibling
or
spouse’s sibling’s spouse’s sibling’s spouse?
?
(I’m not sure I’ve ever read about any need for these terms; at least not often. Especially the triply-affine one.)
I think people would still call these Schwippschwager, if they would use any term at all.
.
WeepingElf wrote: 25 Oct 2021 18:55 'Foster-brother' is Ziehbruder (as 'forster-son' is Ziehsohn etc.)
Foster-child is also Pflegekind in more modern parlance, IINM. (I mostly get this idea from dubbings of US TV shows and movies.) So maybe people will talk about a Pflegebruder?
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore »

“Creyeditor” wrote:I think people would still call these Schwippschwager, if they would use any term at all.
I think that matches Schnee’s livejournal. So I’ll believe it from now on.
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Interesting! Thanks.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien »

For the Ancient Greek noun ὕδωρ (hýdōr) "water", why is the oblique stem ὕδατ- (hýdat-)? Where does that -at- come from?
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Post by sangi39 »

KaiTheHomoSapien wrote: 04 Nov 2021 23:04 For the Ancient Greek noun ὕδωρ (hýdōr) "water", why is the oblique stem ὕδατ- (hýdat-)? Where does that -at- come from?
Apparently, it's from the PIE *-r/*-n alternation:

"Neuter nouns of the third declension are nearly identical to their masculine and feminine counterparts except for the nominative, accusative, and vocative cases in the singular and plural. Since the stem often ends with a sound which an Ancient Greek word cannot end on, the final sound is often dropped or changed in unmarked forms. The simplest and most common third declension neuters are the dental stems, such as ὄνομα (ónoma, “name”), stem ονοματ- (onomat-). Interestingly, the τ in the stem is a common feature of Ancient Greek words derived from PIE neuter n stems, which is not well explained."

Other examples include φρέᾱρ ~ φρέᾱτος, οὖθᾰρ ~ οὔθᾰτος, σκῶρ ~ σκᾰτός, and ἧπᾰρ ~ ἥπᾰτος, just to steal a handful from Wiktionary, which also lists -αρ ~ -ατος as a descendent of PIE *-r̥

As for why that *-n results in a τ? I honestly have no idea, but it does seem like that's where it comes from
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien »

^Ah, thanks. I do remember reading something about it in Sihler, so I looked it up. He essentially says what you said. "-at- somehow continues -n-". There's a theory that it might have something to do with participle forms in -nt- but the connection between those and the n-stem nouns is not clear.
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Post by Pabappa »

σκῶρ ~ σκᾰτός
whoa .... i had no idea those two words were even related, let alone that they were the same word. the "-mentum" theory makes sense to me though ..... see for example how many words ending in -ma have plurals in -mata, .... and how there's a different alternation between -ma and a freestanding -ta. e.g. protoplasm but chloroplast, which were originally different parts of speech i think.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Vlürch »

eldin raigmore wrote: 19 Oct 2021 23:34Are interjections especially likely to be borrowed from one language to another, relative to other parts of speech, and to how many interjections each of the source language and borrowing language has?

Is the ease of borrowing interjections versus other parts of speech, significantly greater when the two languages are “genetically” unrelated and typologically dissimilar?

I ask because I’ve noticed lots of borrowed English interjections in YouTube videos by people who create in languages that are non-Indo-European and typologically not like English.
I don't know, but I think with English interjections in Youtube videos it might just be the global dominance of English, especially online. Sure, you can use the internet without any English, but like... you know?

At first I typed a detailed paragraph here with a few examples of why I think you might be right, but decided to remove it because I figured someone would probably start a "debate" about the subject one way or another, that I'm being either too "charitable" or too "judgemental" about this... but basically, in a nutshell, I think certain kinds of interjections from other languages are easier to use for some people because they can be ambiguously used sarcastically or sincerely, without necessarily the same "implications" that equivalent interjections already existing in the language they're speaking would have, and without necessarily the same "nuances" that they might have when used in the language they're borrowed from.

Anyway, since it's relevant to this exact topic, I'll mention something that really drives me up the wall: how some Finns say "c'mon!" with like an obnoxiously exaggerated "American" accent so it's /kɑmɑ̃ːːːːːn/ or something that clearly doesn't come naturally and sounds like they're coughing out an entire US state. Everyone who does that does it literally all the time, like once I was on the metro and a guy sitting near me talking on the phone yelled it probably a dozen times within those 10-15 minutes... it's not annoying if it's something you say occasionally and without the turbo-American accent, pretty sure I've said it myself (obviously when speaking English I have, but I mean also when speaking Finnish), but the correlation between saying it like that and saying it all the time is what makes it especially annoying.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Dormouse559 »

Would anyone happen to know of literature about the pragmatic/discourse role of word order in Old French? The sources I've found just acknowledge that different orders exist, without going into any detail on when and why they were used.

(Relatedly, I'm also looking into Old French's agreement of the past participle in transitive clauses. I've found information about frequency of agreement based on word order, but again no source interested in whether the choice to mark agreement or not had a distinct function.)
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