Is our children learning?

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Khemehekis
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Is our children learning?

Post by Khemehekis »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ej7ZEnjSeA

:eng: Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning? --George W. Bush

:deu: Selten wird die Frage gestellt: Lernt unsere Kinder?
seldom become.PRS.3s DEF.NOM.f question PPT=stand learn.PRS.3s our.NOM.PL child-PL

Bonus points if you can translate the solecism.
Last edited by Khemehekis on 03 Feb 2023 22:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by Znex »

:wls: Anaml y fydd y cwestiwn yn cael ei ofyn: ydynt* ein plant ni'n dysgu?
rare PART be.FUT DEF question PART get.VN POSS.3MSG question.VN | INT-be.PRS.3PL POSS.1PL children 1PL PART learn.VN

Here I've made the solecism the complete opposite of the English, since in Welsh the 3PL verbal form only ever gets used before the 3PL pronoun, never before any other plural subject.
:eng: : [tick] | :grc: : [:|] | :chn: :isr: :wls: : [:S] | :deu: :ell: :rus: : [:x]
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Reyzadren
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by Reyzadren »

:con: griuskant (without script here)

jezkousi suazhon ; thusti erae kandkanen.
/'dʒəzkɔusi 'suaʒɔn ; 'θusti 'əre 'kandkanən/
less-times-A question-EB-PASS ; new-A N-IMP-POSS study-can-N-PASS
Image conlang summary | Image griushkoent thread
Esneirra973
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by Esneirra973 »

:esp: Rara vez se hace la pregunta: ¿Está aprendiendo nuestros hijos?
rare-FSG time-FSG 3SG.REFL do.PRES.IND.3SG DEF.FSG question-FSG be.PRES.IND.3SG learn-PART.PRES 1PL.POSS.MPL child-MPL
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Dormouse559
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by Dormouse559 »

Image Silvish
L' est raro k' on boutta la kestyon : Nos̄tro-z enfan apren ?
[lɛˈtʁɑːʁ kɔ̃ˈbu.ta lɑkˈstjɔ̃ŋ | nɔt.tʁo.zɛ̃ˈfɑ̃ŋ aˈpʁɛ̃ŋ]
3S be.3S rare SBRD PRO pose-3S DEF-ACC.F.C question | 1P.POS-M.C=PL child learn.3S

:fra: French
Il est rare qu'on pose la question : Nos enfants apprend-il ?
/i.‿lɛ ʁaʁ kɔ̃ poz la kɛs.tjɔ̃ | no.z‿ɑ̃.fɑ̃ a.pʁɑ̃.t‿il/
3S be.3S rare SBRD PRO pose.3S DEF-F question | 1P.POS-M=PL child{-PL} learn.3S=3{S}

Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?


Notes
Both Silvish and French are able to maintain the error. The mistake is more apparent in written French; the correct form changes only one syllable in speech but is more differentiated in writing: *Nos enfants apprend-il ? /no.z‿ɑ̃.fɑ̃ a.pʁɑ̃.t‿il/ vs. Nos enfants apprennent-ils ? /no.z‿ɑ̃.fɑ̃ a.pʁɛn.t‿il/. In Silvish, the correct form has an additional syllable: *Nos̄tro-z enfan apren ? [nɔt.tʁo.zɛ̃ˈfɑ̃ŋ aˈpʁɛ̃ŋ] vs. Nos̄tro-z enfan aprendön ? [nɔt.tʁo.zɛ̃ˈfɑ̃ŋ aˈpʁɛ̃n.dŋ̩]
Iyionaku
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Yélian

Vat barca quèresbarcut: Barcai yanim îyin oyet?
[vɐ‿ˈbaɾkɐ ˈkɛɾəsˌbaɾkʉt | ˈbaɾkaɪ̯ ˈʃaːnɨm ˈiːɕɨn ˈoːʃət]
DEM question rare-ask-INV.3SG.INAN | ask-1SG 1PLIN.POSS child-PL learn-3SG
Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?

:con: Caelian

Byärkunge kë dabürerki: Tag asasel Sebyet üssal?
[bʲæɾkʰuˈŋɛ kʰə dabyrɛɾˈkʰi | tʰag aʒaˈʒɛl ʒɛˈbʲɛt yˈʒal]
question.DEM.ACC NEG HAB-ask.3PL>3SG | POL child.PL.NOM 1PLIN.GEN learn.3SG
Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Bath'aso

Shels shext tredezh tredzhtizh: Shels grat dzhalktubo.
[ʂɛls ʂɛxt ˈtrɛdɛʐ ˈtrɛ͡dʐtiʐ: ʃɛls ͡gɣɑt ͡dʐɑlktɯbʌ]
POT TERM ask question-INDR | POT learn child-PL=1SG.GEN
Rarely is this question asked: Surely our children are learning.

Orkish doesn't inflect verbs, so in order to keep the error, I used the 1SG gentive clitic -be/-bo, instead of the correct 1PL genitive clitic -ba.

:con: Paatherye

Tīde ma pērka nā pirkemtā: Nesmay phirumī ayūjey?
[ˈtiːðe ma ˈpeːɾka naː piɾˈkemtaː | ˈnesmai̯ pʰiˈrumiː aˈjuːt͡ʃei̯]
often DEM.FEM.NOM question.NOM NEG.3SG.FEM ask.GEDV | 1COL.GEN child.COL learn.OPT.3PL
This question is not often asked: Are our children learning?

In Paatherye, instead of using the singular conjugation for the verb, I used the 3PL conjugation, as it makes sense for an uneducated person not to know the inflection paradigms of the collective forms. The correct verb would have been ayūjenti.
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by lsd »

:con: 3SDeductiveLanguage (1Sign=1Sense=1Sound)
gîāX~Wi^PX
rare speech on understanding of children

no agreement, no inflection, no predicate, no word...
pure logic...
no Bushism possible...
tokibuni
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by tokibuni »

Kuima

fallnna potl nnukvu kwando: dos tloz nnukiu zzalli flitan?
[faɭɳa potɬ͡ ɳukvu kʷando dos tɬ͡oz ɳukiu ʐaɭi flitan]
ask-PASS rare NOM-DEF question IMPFV:ABIL learn NOM-PL:NonASC child GEN-1PL

I can't translate the error exactly as it is, so what I did was I used the wrong PL. It should be "nnukaz" instead of "nnukiu" when used with children (az is the ASC PL).
ara vu buni nnovki malasobuni - The moon is bright at night
- Kuima
Sevly
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by Sevly »

Ooo this is a fun one! Here it is in Zevy:
  • Veid su tat me nezehi mu zeen: ¿Rasa si me destatmon?
    [ˈvəið s̩ taθ me ˈɲezeɣi m̩ ʑeə ‖ ↗︎ ˈrasə z me ˈdestaθmõ]
    series PART small LOC this-question ABS ask : ¿ learn 1SUBJ PRS 1pPOSS-children ?
    Rarely is the question asked: Am our children learning?
Here, the speaker's use of the first-person subject marker si is clearly wrong given the third-person subject "children".

Interestingly, there are two interpretations of what the original sentence was supposed to be before the speaker's brainfart. In one interpretation, the speaker meant to use the second/third-person agreement marker hi:
  • Veid su tat me nezehi mu zeen: ¿Rasa hi me destatmon?
    [ˈvəið s̩ taθ me ˈɲezeɣi m̩ ʑeə ‖ ↗︎ ˈrasə j me ˈdestaθmõ]
    series PART small LOC this-question ABS ask : ¿ learn 2/3SUBJ PRS 1pPOSS-children ?
    Rarely is the question asked: Are our children learning?
In another interpretation, the speaker meant to use the first-person vocative dese- instead of the first-person possessive des-:
  • Veid su tat me nezehi mu zeen: ¿Rasa si me desetatmon?
    [ˈvəið s̩ taθ me ˈɲezeɣi m̩ ʑeə ‖ ↗︎ ˈrasə z me ˈdezetaθmõ]
    series PART small LOC this-question ABS ask : ¿ learn 1SUBJ PRS 1pVOC-children ?
    Rarely is the question asked: Are we the children learning?
Both of these differ from the ungrammatical sentence by just one syllable, so either one is likely. That said, the first is closest to the original solecism by Mr. Bush.
Plusquamperfekt
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by Plusquamperfekt »

Khemehekis wrote: 17 Sep 2022 07:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ej7ZEnjSeA

:eng: Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning? --George W. Bush

:deu: Selten wird die Frage gefragt: Lernt unsere Kinder?
seldom become.PRS.3s DEF.NOM.f question PPT=ask learn.PRS.3s our.NOM.PL child-PL

Bonus points if you can translate the solecism.
Fragen werden auf Deutsch gestellt. "Eine Frage fragen" ist ziemlich schlechtes Deutsch.

Selten wird die Frage gestellt: Lernen unsere Kinder?
Khemehekis
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by Khemehekis »

Plusquamperfekt wrote: 13 Jan 2023 23:23
Khemehekis wrote: 17 Sep 2022 07:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ej7ZEnjSeA

:eng: Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning? --George W. Bush

:deu: Selten wird die Frage gefragt: Lernt unsere Kinder?
seldom become.PRS.3s DEF.NOM.f question PPT=ask learn.PRS.3s our.NOM.PL child-PL

Bonus points if you can translate the solecism.
Fragen werden auf Deutsch gestellt. "Eine Frage fragen" ist ziemlich schlechtes Deutsch.

Selten wird die Frage gestellt: Lernen unsere Kinder?
I have changed the word for "asked" in the OP.

However, did you listen to the YouTube video I linked at the beginning? "Lernt" for "lernen" is intentional. In the original quote, President Bush asks, "Is our children learning?", where the correct English would be "Are our children learning?", since "children" is a plural subject noun. The idea is to translate Bush's solecism.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by prettydragoon »

:con: Rireinutire

sutiti siki mimoromu mimokave hi~ yo meno poya otikayo:
/ˈsutiti ˈsiki ˈmimoɹomu ˈmimokɑve hi || jo ˈmeno ˈpojɑ ˈotikɑjo/
suti-ti siki mimoro-mu mimo-ka-ve hi || yo me-no poya oti-ka-yo
rare-ADVZ this.NOM question-ACC ask-PRS-HSY that.QUO || Q 1P-GEN child.NOM learn-PRS-Q

Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?

Instead of the number mismatch of the source text in Human (Rireinutire does not mark number in nouns or verbs) we have employed the clumsy
expression mimoromu mimo|ta 'to inquire a question'. In Rireinutire, it is more idiomatic to either mimoromu iseta|ta 'to raise a
question' or simply mimo|ta 'to ask, inquire'.

Translation challenge 10/100
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What is this, how you say, Rireinutire?
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Arayaz
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by Arayaz »

:con: Gânolay (because I'm too lazy to do this in Yoshó, where it's harder I want to expand Gânolay)

Cayrugi casâ danayrugilâc: "Dosijîy band'angîyâc?"
[cæj.'ru.ɡi 'cæ.sæˀ dæ.næj.ru.'ɡi.læˀc do.'si.ɟiˀ.i bæn.ɗæ.'ŋiˀ.jæˀc]
TOP-question this 1pc-PRES.PERF-3sg-ask-NEG-HAB / 1pc.POS-child-PC 3pc-PRES.PERF-3sg-learn-INT-HAB
"We do not often ask this question: 'is our children learning?'"

I've used the paucal here, imagining two parents / a small parenting conference.
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kiwikami
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Re: Is our children learning?

Post by kiwikami »

:con: Alál

Inclusive our:
Kmıkmìlxıṭmıkhaàx z·mulhàmrǎzıma kulîaı.
[kmɪk'melxɪtʼmɪkˌçɑχ ʃ‿mʊl'çɑmrɑˌʃim kʊɮi'ɑj]
kmı~kmı<ìl-xṭ>m-kha-à-x z=mu<ul>h-àm-rà-zím-a kı<ulv-ŕ-a#ı>r̀
HAB~ask<4.i-barelyS>-rarely-CONC-VOL.ACT AGT=learn<i-PL>-Q-NOM.PAT-INCH-VOL.ACT child<i-PL-OBL>

One rarely asks about whether it, our children, are learning.

Exclusive our:
Kmıkmìkxıṭmıkhaàx z·mazuhàmrǎzıma kazîaı.
[kmɪk'mekxɪtʼmɪkˌçɑχ ʃ‿mɐʒʊ'çɑmrɑˌʃim kɐʒi'ɑj]
kmı~kmı<ìk-xṭ>m-kha-à-x z=mu<azv>h-àm-rà-zím-a kı<azv-ŕ-a#ı>r̀
HAB~ask<4.1PL-barelyS>-rarely-CONC-VOL.ACT AGT=learn<1-PL>-Q-NOM.PAT-INCH-VOL.ACT child<1-PL-OBL>

One rarely asks about whether it, our children, are learning.

This was a tough one - there's no nominal plural marking except in nominalized verbs (the PL in child<i-PL-OBL> is pluralizing the possessor). But such verbs, when acting as arguments of other verbs, must be agreed with via the person of subject (e.g. "You see<2.1> me.learning", "I see<1.3> him.learning"). So I removed the direct question, and put the solecism instead in the incorrect plural agreement between ask<4.i> and learn<i-PL>: the former is ìl instead of ìḷvŕ.

Amusingly, using the correct agreement here would cascade phonetically through the rest of the first word, since there are a handful of CCC clusters that would have epenthetic vowels inserted differently as a result: Kmıkmǐḷıxṭımkıhaàx [kmɪk'med͡ɮixtʼımgɪˌçɑχ].

Translation challenge: 9/100
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.

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