Non-finite verb forms

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Sankon
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Non-finite verb forms

Post by Sankon »

The sleeping cat likes to sleep. The dog likes to smell the cat.

Please translate this into your conlang, giving IPA/X-SAMPA, a full gloss, and an explanation of how everything works. I'll provide one later once I get it translated.
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Maximillian »

Darl-e-nainen am maura avaim-au-t na darl-anna.
/dar'lenainen am'maura 'avaimaut na'darlan:a/
sleep-PRESENT-PARTICIPLE the cat like-UNIVERSAL-3PS SUPINE sleep-SUPINE

Ar vólond avaim-au-t am maura na vóhr-anna.
/ar'vo:lond 'avaimaut am'maura na'vo:hran:a/
the dog like-UNIVERSAL-3PS the cat SUPINE smell-SUPINE
UNUS•ET•UNICUS
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Testyal »

I only did the sleeping cat likes to sleep

luudipmaa chliip kot mai aat ochlii yaat.
/lu:.dIp.mA: ts\li:p kot mAi At ots\lip iAt/
like-NEU-MORE sleeping-NEU cat END-MORE ADJCLAU to sleep END-ADJCLAU
:deu: :fra: :zho: :epo:
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Ossicone »

The first one doesn't translate well. Probably because 'sleeping' is acting as an adjective rather than a verb. So in the first example it is attached as a noun to cat. The second example gives you the closest thing to a gerund and infinitive in Inyauk.

The sleeping cat likes to sleep.
inákanatanbalitma mí'uplu bálit
i-naka-na-tanbalit-ma miʔup-lu balit
DEF-cat-ADJ-sleep-AGT enjoy-CNT sleep

or

The cat that is sleeping likes to sleep.
inákama ir bálitlu ax mí'uplu bálit.
i-naka-ma ir balit-lu ax miʔup-lu balit
DEF-cat-AGT <RC sleep-CNT RC> enjoy-CNT sleep.

Plain verbs like 'bálit' only exist after fully inflected verbs like 'míʔuplu.' Here it translates as an infinitive. But you couldn't use it say 'to sleep is fun.'
The suffix '-lu' indicates a continuous action and is similar to a gerund.

The dog likes to smell the cat.
itxátama mí'uplu xán inákauna.
i-ʧata-ma miʔup-lu ʃan i-naka-una
DEF-dog-AGT enjoy-CNT smell DEF-cat-ORG

Here you see the plain verb, 'ʃan,' acting as an infintive but the suffix '-lu' is the continuous present tense.

Glosses:
ADJ= used to attach a noun to another noun as a descriptor
AGT=Agent
DEF=Definite article
CNT= Continuous
<RC=Relative clause open
RC>=Relative clause close
ORG=Origin

Apologies in advance if my terms are wrong/unintelligible.
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by LetoAtreides »

In Nolikan it translates as:

Jiric muryo koja jiraya - The sleeping cat likes to sleep.

Jiric muryo - sleeping cat
koja - adverbial case of koj 'willing'. Nolikan has no modal verbs.
jiraya - aorist of jire 'sleep'. The aorist is used to express general statements.

Sabax koja muryaul nerjaya The dog likes to smell the cat.

muryaul - ergative of muryo 'cat'. In English the dog smells the cat, but in Nolikan the cat causes the dog to perceive a smell.
nerjaya - aorist of nerje 'smell'
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Trailsend »

Inákanatanbalitma is an interesting structure, Ossicone! Is it analogous to the way the language handles adjectives in any other situations?


Feayran:

(There aren't any domesticated cats or dogs in Feayra, so I'm substituting "squirrel" and "fox" respectively.)

Eshún numnugushísh kirikáuti numnuvágush. Eshún sehashurushúgu kitsháu.
/ɛ̀ʃ.ún nùmn.ù.ɡù.ʃíʃ kì.ɾì.káù̯.tì nùmn.ù.vá.gùʃ.. ɛ̀ʃ.ún sè.hàʃ.ù.ɾù.ʃú.gù kìtʃ.áù̯/
[ɛ̀ʂ.ṹ nùmn.ù.ɡù.ç̺íʃ kì.ɾì.kɑ́ɯ̯̀.tθ̠ì nùmn.ù.vá.gùʃ.. ɛ̀ʂ.ṹ sè.χāʂ.ù.ɾù.ʂú.gù kìtʂ.ɑ́ɯ̯̀]

(the [ç̺] character in [nùmn.ù.ɡù.ç̺íʃ] is a little hard to make out--that's a laminal unvoiced palatal fricative.)

esh<ú>n numn<u-g;u-sh-í>sh kirik<áu>ti numn<u-v-á-g;u>sh. esh<ú>n sehash<u-r;u-sh-ó-g;u> kitsh<áu>.

pleasant<LEAD> sleep<LEAD-CLS(food);LEAD.S-IMPF-INTRS.SUBJ> squirrel<DIR.LEAD.S> sleep<LEAD-STAT-INTRS-CLS(food);LEAD.S>. pleasant<LEAD> nose<LEAD-CLS(pred1);LEAD.S-IMPF-TRNS.SUBJ-CLS(food);LEAD.S> fox<DIR.LEAD.S>.

(like) (were the prey animal to sleep) (squirrel) (the prey animal is sleeping). (like) (were the noncompetitive predator to smell the prey animal) (fox).


(The first sentence tags the squirrel with the -g- classifier; thereafter, the squirrel is likely to be referenced only by classifier marking on verbs, rather than explicitly repeating the noun.)

There aren't really any non-finite verbs in Feayran, with the possible exception of the auxiliary s*, which can sometimes be simplified to a non-valent form. Even then, though, non-valent finite verbs occur quite frequently, so whether the non-valent auxiliary is in fact non-finite is a squishy issue.

In the "X likes to Y" structure, the word eshún is an adverb/adjective. Since the statement is hypothetical in nature (rather than an indicative "X liked Ying the other day" or "X is liking Ying right now!") the subjunctive mood is used on the verb. Rather than a participle ("the sleeping squirrel") Feayran just tacks on a full finite verb (usually in either the imperfective or stative aspect) later in the clause to indicate subordinate newsworthiness.
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Ossicone »

Trailsend wrote:Inákanatanbalitma is an interesting structure, Ossicone! Is it analogous to the way the language handles adjectives in any other situations?
It is the only way Inyauk handles 'adjectives.' I put it in quotes because to me they are just nouns or verbs attached to nouns.

So you can have:
inákanapirin - the short cat
i-náka-na-pirin
inákanaiɲar - the brown cat
i-náka-na-iɲar
inákanapirinaaiɲar - the short brown cat (nna --> naa)
i-náka-na-pirin-na-iɲar
inákanaiɲarnapirin - the brown short cat
i-náka-na-iɲar-na-pirin


The only difference in the last two is if you want to emphasize brownness or shortness.

Also:
iʔíɲarnanaka - the cat brown (the color of brown that is found on a cat)
i-íɲar-na-naka
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Trailsend »

Interesting! Can the affixed nouns/verbs appear in isolation? E.g.,

"Was the cat brown or black?"
"Brown."

If so, I wonder if you could analyze structures like inákanaiɲar as being more analytic, with na acting as an adjective-izer (there's got to be a better term than that...) akin to Mandarin de.
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Ossicone »

Trailsend wrote:Interesting! Can the affixed nouns/verbs appear in isolation? E.g.,

"Was the cat brown or black?"
"Brown."

If so, I wonder if you could analyze structures like inákanaiɲar as being more analytic, with na acting as an adjective-izer (there's got to be a better term than that...) akin to Mandarin de.
I do call 'na' the adjectizer (cause I don't know what else to call it) and it can only be an affix.
I haven't quite nailed down the questions yet, but this is the current state.
Also there is no verb 'to be' so the question above would be:

inákar (fisaluu) θaʔíɲarut ar θaʔíkuput?
i-náka-r (fís-al-lu) θa-íɲar-ut ar θa-íkup-ut
DEF-cat-POSSESSOR (have-PAST-CONT.) Q-brown-POSSESSED or Q-black-POSSESSED
Lit: does the cat have brownness or blackness.
*The verb 'have' is frequently dropped.

The answer:
(nír) íɲarut
(ní-r) íɲar-ut
(3.sg-PSR) brown-PSD
Lit: It has browness.
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Ave94 »

in Taiwazaiho:

lhee taase lhee lhaam. kaun taase ka semha lhaam.
/Ke: ta:se Ke: Ka:m kau)n ta:se ka semha Ka:m/
[Ke: ta:Se Ke: Ka:m kau_^n ta:Se ka Semxa Ka:m]
lhee taase lhee lhaam kaun taase ka semha lhaam
sleep cat sleep like dog cat towards smell like

in all cases lhee "sleep" is a verb. There is no infinitive form of the verb; to translate infinitives you use verb serialization, like the above lhee lhaam and semha lhaam. Relative clauses are just sentences placed before the noun they describe; this is used instead of a participle for "sleeping".
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by taylorS »

Alpic:

Ta jakmoki katto vides jakmol. Ta kuni vides gozol ta katto.
DEF sleep-GERUND cat like-3SG sleep-INF DEF dog like-3SG smell-INF DEF cat
[ta jɐkˈmoki ˈkɐtːo ˈvidɛs ˈjɐkmɔl ta ˈkuni ˈvidɛs ˈɡozɔl ta ˈkɐtːo]

The Alpic gerund affix is derived from a relative pronoun, so "sleeping cat" would have been "sleep REL cat", that is "the cat that sleeps" (Alpic's ancestors were SOV, so the relative clause came before the noun).

The Infinitive affix is "-l" and comes from an old subordinate clause verb marking that was eventually replaced by the current subjunctive affix.

Alpic also has a Active Participle marked by "-za" and a Passive Participle marked by "-ra", which active like English Present and Past Participles, respectively, and a Middle Participle in "-rri. The Middle Participle is used to say something like "the self-finished game", where "self-finished" would be the verb "do" in the Middle Participle form.
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Colzie »

Rudan:

Altúśtu navváti navváti kist.
The sleeping cat likes to sleep.

This is the strictest translation, but because of the awkward repeated participle*, a more natural construction is:

Altúśtu pu nil náft navváti kist
The cat which is sleeping now likes to sleep.
/al.'tuʃ.tu 'pu nil 'naft nav.'vat.ti 'kist/
DEF-cat REL.F now sleep-3s sleep-PTCP-3s.f like-3s


*Participles have a suffix which agrees with their subject. They take case, as a noun-like being, but the case agreement with a modal verb is nominative, which causes with the participle which agrees with the subject to be identical to the secondary argument of the verb.


Alrral altúśtun śammátit kist.
The dog likes to smell the cat.
/al.'ʁal al.'tuʃ.tun ʃam.'mat.tit 'kist/
DEF-dog DEF-cat-ACC smell-PTCP-3s.n like-3s
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by DanH34 »

I've been thinking about non-finite verbs lately, so I thought I bit of necromancy was in order.

:eng:
The sleeping cat likes to sleep. The dog likes to smell the cat.

:con: Zidhgebzhail -Borrowing 'cat' and 'dog' from English, because my usual man-ERG woman-ACC demonstration clause would make this one just a little bit weird.

katil-zhOushfoedils zhOushfoeghef Enlind.
kat-il-zh-Oushfoe-d-il-s zh-Oushfoe-gh-ef Ø-Enli-nd.
cat-ERG.SG.M-NOMINALISER-sleep-PROG-ERG.SG.M-ADJ NOMINALISER-sleep-HABITUAL-ACC.SG.M PRS-like-STATIVE
Sleeping-cat likes sleeping/to-sleep.

dogil zhIemnaghef-kataa Enlind.
dog-il zh-Iemna-gh-ef-kat-aa Ø-Enli-nd.
dog-ERG.SG.M NOMINALISER-smell-HABITUAL-ACC.SG.M cat-OBJGEN.SG.M PRS-like-STATIVE
Dog likes smelling-of-cat/cat's-smelling.

I'm pretty sure that Zidhgebzhail doesn't, strictly speaking, have infinitives. As above, a verb core (stem) with any amount of conjugation can be prefixed with 'zh[a]-' and:
- Inflected as a noun to form a gerund (at least I think gerund is the correct term), which can optionally be followed by a noun in one of the genitive cases (broadly speaking, genitive for humans, object genitive for anything else).
- Inflected as an adjective to form a participle, which is then treated identically to an adjective. Note that making the participle in the second clause passive ('zhaharIemnagh') would mean that the dog likes to be smelled by the cat.
Last edited by DanH34 on 07 Nov 2012 19:29, edited 3 times in total.
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Zidhgebzhail Orthography
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by ol bofosh »

:con: Alahithian
Pa felis monuy lefirt monuy.
[pa ˈfe.ɭis ˈmo.ɳuj ˈɭe.fiɾt ˈmo.ɳuj]
pa felis monuy lefir-t monuy
DEF cat to.sleep like-PRS to.sleep

The sleeping cat likes to sleep. (lit. the cat that sleeps likes to sleep)

Pa canis lefirt thesir pa felis.
[pa ˈka.ɳis ˈɭe.fiɾt ˈʈe.siɾ pa ˈfe.ɭis]
pa canis lefir-t thesir pa felis
DEF dog like-PRS to.smell DEF cat

The dog likes to smell the cat.

Hmm, a little too like English, let's try an slight alternative...

Pa felis monuy monuyt lefipa.
The cat that sleeps sleeps likingly.

Pa canis thesirt lefipa pa felis.
The dogs smells the cat likingly.

Both possible in Alahithian. Provisionally I would say that the first examples are for more formal registers, but the latter for more informal.

Note on the words felis and canis: the Savodians take words of animals they don't know from Latin. The plural of these words are feliz and caniz.
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by AMG »

:con: bödariimu
Iatluzo koot mrezjt, eete iatlut.
Sleep.PRS.PTCP.NOM.SG cat.NOM.SG like.PRS.3SG that sleep.PRS.3SG
‘jɐtluzɔ ko:t mrɛʒt e:t ‘jɐtlut
The sleeping cat likes to sleep.

Zjönu mrezjt, eete koote mesjtolt.
Dog.NOM.SG like.PRS.3SG that cat.ACC.SG smell.PRS.3SG
‘ʒønu mrɛʒt e:t ‘ko:tɛ mɛʃtɔlt
The dog likes to smell the cat.
Last edited by AMG on 26 Oct 2014 15:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by vampireshark »

Telèmor is boring and straightforward: no gerund or present participle forms.
1.) Se neciro çe dorma am dormère.
DEF cat that sleep.3.PRS.SBJV like.3.PRS sleep.INF
[sɛ neˈki.ɾo tʃ͡ɛ ˈdoɾ.mɐ am ˈdoɾ.mə.ɾɛ]

2.) Se caino am se neciro gutare.
DEF dog like.3.PRS DEF cat smell/taste.INF
[sɛ ˈkai̯.no am sɛ neˈki.ɾo guˈta.ɾɛ]


Ilian agglutinates, so it's a bit different, but it effectively uses verbal nouns (not infinitives) for the cases described.
1.) Qjatzel, dá cléfehekte, cléfehektenmá ámatade.
feline-DEF REL sleep-INST-be sleep-INST-be-NMLZ-GEN love-ACC-have
[ˈt͡ɕat.t͡sel | daː ˈʃleː.fe.hek.te | ˈʃleː.fe.hek.ten.maː ˈaː.maː.taˌde]

2.) Xuntul qjotzulmógúttopunmó ómotodu.
canine-DEF cat-DEF-GEN-taste-ACC-take-NMLZ-GEN love-ACC-have
[ˈxɯnt.ɯl̪ ˈt͡ɕɔt.t͡sɯl̪.mɔːˌgɯt.toˌpɯn.mɔː ˈɔː.mɔː.tɔˌdɯ]
And I'll dance with you in Vienna,
I'll be wearing a river's disguise;
The hyacinth wild on my shoulder,
My mouth on the dew of your thigh...

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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by pmitxki »

The sleeping cat likes to sleep. The dog likes to smell the cat.
In Pmitxki:
Bhamouhetse pehoezbeua bhamouhe. Pehiazbeua buemhe pehoezbehu.
bʱɐmoʊ̯ˈχɛts pɘħʌɪ̯ˈzbɛwɐ bʱɐˈmɔʊ̯χ. pɘçɛˈzbɛwɐ bwɛ̃χ pɘħʌɪ̯ˈzbɛχʷ.

Bha(body-health)mou(rest)he(active V-suffix)tse(adj-sufix) ["sleeping"] pe(domestic)hoe(mischief)zbe(small animal suffix)ua(LOC case with "positive" modifier vowel -a) ["in accordance with the cat"] bhamouhe [sleep V inf]. Pe(domestc)hia(love/beauty)zbe(small animal suffix)ua(LOC case with "positive" modifier vowel -a) ["in accordance with the dog"] buem(smell)he(active V-suffix) pehoezbe(cat)hu(ACC suffix).

Literally, "To sleep (is) in accordance with the sleeping cat. To smell the cat (is) in accordance with the dog."

Pmitxki is an agglutinative language in which each syllable is morphemic, and each syllable is in turn made up of individual phonemes that also exist as micro-morphemes. So every single sound has a certain meaning, from the letter, to the syllable, to the word, up to the sentence.
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Aseca »

:con: Aloha:

kahlońam kahaltram cayate.
[kəhɬoɲəɴ kəhəltrəɴ cəjəte]
sleep.gerund-cat.sbj(n) sleep(inf.n) like/prefer.3sg.self
The sleeping cat likes to sleep.


Ághvam ńám altram cayate.
[agʰʋəɴ ɲam əltrəɴ cəjəte]
dog.sbj(n) cat.acc(n) smell(inf.n) like/prefer.3sg.self
The dog likes to smell the cat.

Aloha is a fusional agglutinative-inflecting lang; noun morphemes agglutinate and inflect according to classes (which include gender); verbs decline (ablaut) then agglutinate according to TAM, noun type affixing, gerund, etc, etc.
Sikatāyām kaṇam lokasya darśasi, svargam phale vanye ca.
See a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower.
Ānantam tava karatalena darasi, nityatām ghaṇṭabhyantare ca.
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Iron »

Jazii sätatsöömunilis qootsasok tsöömunili. Kurgöt qootsasok kpaaražak jaziit.
[jɑ'ziː sætɑ'tsøːmunilis 'xoːtsasok 'tsøːmunili kurgøt 'goːtsasok k'pɑːrɑʒɑk jɑ'ziːt]
DAT.cat that PRS.sleep.3SG PRS.like.3SG to-sleep. dog PRS.like.3SG to-smell ACC.cat.
The sleeping cat likes to sleep. The dog likes to smell the cat.
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Re: Non-finite verb forms

Post by Chagen »

Pazmat:

Szaq Tuuc szacju.
[ʂæq taʊk ʂætɕu]
sza-q tuuc sza-cjid-u
sleep-GERUND cat sleep-3RD.SG.NEU-OPT


Qrus Tuucos fezbicju.
[qɻus taʊkos fezbitɕu]
qrus tuuc-os fezbi-cjid-u
dog cat-ACC smell-3RD.SG-OPT
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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