Polysynthesis

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Xing
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Polysynthesis

Post by Xing »

I found this example on the Wikipedia page on Greenlandic:

Nalunaarasuartaatilioqateeraliorfinnialikkersaatiginialikkersaatilillaranatagoorunarsuarooq

The rough translation given is "Once again they tried to build a giant radio station, but it was apparently only on the drawing board."

Unfortunately, I can't find glosses for it [:(]

But anyway, it would be interesting to see how you would handle it.


:con: Wa‘tē:

[n̪e̞ ˈt̪iːŋi ˈt̪o̞ŋo̞ ko̞ ˈt̪o̞n̪i aː ʔo̞ː ˈt̪o̞ŋi n̪e̞ pakir̪akːˈapi maˈkːaː ˈme̞ʔa ˈt̪e̞ja ˈkaːi iː t̪a kːe̞l̪ɯˈit̪ːi ʔiː]
Ne tīgi togo, ko toni ā xōru togi ne pwakiraʻkapi maʻkā mexa, teya kāi, ī ta ʻkeluiʻti xī.
ne tīgi togo ko toni ā xōru togi ne pwaki-raʻkapi maʻkā mexa, teya kāi, ī ta ʻkelu-iʻti xī
INDEF time again, PERF try.build ERG 3SG INDEF station-radio big very, but apparently, LOC DEF board-drawing 3SG.

Not very polysynthetic
(There are a few things in the above translation I am not sure about yet...)
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Re: Polysynthesis

Post by Prinsessa »

Classical Kozea:

Ōrod, ōrod paêngae thōimildae wōitho tostôistilltu nottā. Īmpāx ētoddyí xra a me hwaltā yestanāi.

Once again they tried to build a house of sound transmissions. It looks like they still haven't gotten started.
/ˈoːrɔd ˈoːrɔd paˈeŋae ˈθoːɪmɪldae ˈwoːɪðɔ tɔstˈoːɪstɪlːtɔ͡ʊ ˈnɔtːaː/ | /ˈiːmbaːx ɛːtɔdːˈjɪ xra mɛ a ˈʍaltaː ˈjɛstanaːɪ/
new-LOC new-LOC try-3PP make-SUBJ-3PP house-ACC transmission-GEN.PLUR sound-GEN.PLUR | see-PASS 3PS-EQU-ADV still PAST_PART NEG go beginning-LAT
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Xing
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Re: Polysynthesis

Post by Xing »

:con: Mii (711)

Timi mīmā īa īa ākat mūli ulūli mitā ūni, aki īa mālīta pūli nukulā.
5171071172201120112022625073391039339107152203351026101120722911520433910836392200
time other 3p 3p try build place send wave but 3p show be.at thought.
'time again they tried build wave-sending place, but it showed to be in thought.'

(1) I'll add IPA when I have time.
(2) I provide you my two spellings - with letters and with digits. I know, tastes may be different. Which one do you prefer?

a. For a serious conlang.
b. For a jokelang.

IMO, using regular letters may be more suited for a serious conlang, while digits may give a more jokelangish flavour. But you may disagree.

(3) Only a few translations here. But there are dozens of translations of 'I see you' and 'I love you'. There are some logically possible explanations for this fact:

a. People find sentences of the type 'A verbs B' more interesting and intriguing.
b. Many conlangs haven't been developed enough to handle more complex sentences that 'A verbs B'.
c. Some other explanation.
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Chagen
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Re: Polysynthesis

Post by Chagen »

The numbers aren't really "jokey" to me. I like them a lot better than the normal one for sure.

And it gave me the idea for a robot-lang with no phonology that writes only in numbers.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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CrazyEttin
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Re: Polysynthesis

Post by CrazyEttin »

Chagen wrote:And it gave me the idea for a robot-lang with no phonology that writes only in numbers.
Binary language. Would be awesome.
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Re: Polysynthesis

Post by Dormouse559 »

Image Silvish

Ankora una koî, î-z ont epprovà de battî un posto radió jheyan, me-z î semblava d' ettre rin k' a ly ettui.
[ʔɑ̃ˈko.ra ʔy.ŋaˈkuː | ʔiː.zɔ̃n.tɛp.pʁəˈva de.bɑˈtiː ʔœ̃ˈpo.stə ʁaˈdjo ʒəˈjɑ̃ŋ | me.ziː.sɛ̃ˈbla.va ˈdɛt.tʁə ˈʁɛ̃ŋ ka.ʎˑɛˈtjy]
again INDF-F.C time | 3.M-PL have.3P try-PSTP of build-INF INDF.M.C station radio giant.M.C | but 3S.M seem-IPF-3S of be-INF nothing except at DEF.OBL study

Once again they tried to build a giant radio station, but it was apparently only on the drawing board.


It's funny how much you take an idiom like "on the drawing board" for granted until you have to translate it. I decided to go with a ly ettui, basically "under study", which is based on the French à l'étude. It's too bad Wikipedia gives no gloss, or even a source, for the sentence; I wonder what construction the Greenlandic uses.

New/rethought words
ettre a ly ettui v. phr. - be on the drawing board; be in the planning stages; be under study
jheyan adj - giant
posto radió nmc - radio station; (rare) radio set
radió nfc - radio (technology and device) (< Fr. radio)
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Re: Polysynthesis

Post by Reyzadren »

:con: griuskant (without script here)

raeses aedou shaislia daerka daeki coebjalgvuwobs, ut uayil az kynsgoeren.
/'resəs 'edɔu 'ʃaislia 'derka 'deki 'tʃɯbdʒalgvuwɔbs, ut 'uajil az 'kYnsgɯrən/
3PL again now-try-V building-V big-A radio-signal-generator-PL, but only is ought-PL-plan-N-PASS
Image Soundcloud Profile | Image griuskant conlang
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Re: Polysynthesis

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Yélian (somewhat synthetic)

Yivalitmiværcratʻi rádiobolyalotaʻi mia, cut yiquadmiatmanduivit pun tome.
[ɕɨˌvaːlɨtmivəɾˈkɾatʔi ˈɾaːdɪ̯ɔ̈bɔ̈lʃɐˈloːtɐʔi ˈmiː.ɐ, kʉt ɕɨkɐdmɪ̯ɐtmɐnˈduːʋɨ‿pʉn ˈtoːmə]
PST-again-once-try-build-3PL radio_station-too-big-ENUM one, but PST-seem-only-exist-COND.3SG in sand
Once again they tried to build a giant radio station, but it was apparently only on the drawing board.

New/rethought words and phrases:

rádiobol [ˈɾaːdɪ̯ɔ̈bɔ̈l] - radio station
Etymology: from rádio "radio" + -bol "suffix for locations that mark the center of something"

yalota [ʃɐˈloːtɐ] - giant, very big
Etymology: ya- "very" + lota "big"
It might not seem necessary to include this as a lexical entry, but honestly, I was dumbstruck for a good minute as I realized I don't have a satisfying translation here. For "giant", the particle cudól existed, but it seemed to dramatic here.

manduia pun tome - "to exist in the sand"
This is how I decided to translate the idiom "on the drawing board". Like many idioms in Yélian, this has something to do with the desert. The idiom originally only referred to streets that were obfuscated by the dunes of the desert, but now it can be used for anything that was not robustly planned and doesn't actually exist and serve a purpose.
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Re: Polysynthesis

Post by Dormouse559 »

Iyionaku wrote: 26 Oct 2020 20:16yalota [ʃɐˈloːtɐ] - giant, very big
Etymology: ya- "very" + lota "big"
It might not seem necessary to include this as a lexical entry […]
Funny you should mention this because I actually forgot to translate the word in my version [:P] I've added that in now.
Iyionaku wrote:manduia pun tome - "to exist in the sand"
This is how I decided to translate the idiom "on the drawing board". Like many idioms in Yélian, this has something to do with the desert. The idiom originally only referred to streets that were obfuscated by the dunes of the desert, but now it can be used for anything that was not robustly planned and doesn't actually exist and serve a purpose.
I like this etymology a lot [:D]
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Re: Polysynthesis

Post by Iyionaku »

Dormouse559 wrote: 26 Oct 2020 20:52
Iyionaku wrote:manduia pun tome - "to exist in the sand"
This is how I decided to translate the idiom "on the drawing board". Like many idioms in Yélian, this has something to do with the desert. The idiom originally only referred to streets that were obfuscated by the dunes of the desert, but now it can be used for anything that was not robustly planned and doesn't actually exist and serve a purpose.
I like this etymology a lot [:D]
Thank you! I have to give you some credit for that, because if you had not debated about the idiom before, I would have probably just translated everything literally. Thanks to you, I thought about it.
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Re: Polysynthesis

Post by kiwikami »

:con: Alál

Xaxıàrṭakakẓâx máakasàr atìmàtmam : ḷí·mas Tímasıḷkalkúı laẓùsa.
[xǝˈçɑɾtʼǝgǝkˌt͡ʃaɑχ ˈmagǝˌsɑɾ ǝˈtemɑtmǝm t͡ɬi mǝs ˈtimǝzɪt͡ɬkǝɬˌkuj ɬǝˈt͡ʃoz]
xa~xa<ıvr̀-ŕ>ṭ-aka-kẓá-à-x máakas<à>r ta<ì>m-vr̀-tma-m ḷí mas ta<ímv>s-ıḷ-kl-kú-ı laẓ<ù.#a>s
again~build<3.4SG-PL>-upwards-try-CONC-VOL radio.station<PAT> be.large<4>-ATT~be.large-STAT however that<OBL> exist<4.4PL>only-EVID-PSTE--CONT mind.group<PAT>
Again they tried to construct a very large radio station, but apparently it was only in their collective minds / in the planning stage.

---

New vocabulary:
máakasaır|máakasar|máakasàr - 'radio station', from maakaara 'radio tower', itself from MAR 'whisker'

Alas, while Alál does allow object incorporation, this produces a habitual meaning that is incompatible with the 'again' construction. That said, if one wanted to say "They habitually try to construct (a) radio station(s)", that would be Xaxaıámáakasarṭakakẓâx /xǝγǝˈjamagǝzǝɾtʼǝgǝkˌt͡ʃaɑχ/.

Glossing notes:
Spoiler:
CONC - conclusive aspect (perfective involving a change of state)
VOL - active voice, volitive
PAT - patientive case
ATT - attributive verb
STAT - stative aspect
PSTE- - past event time (implied present reference time)
Dormouse559 wrote: 26 Oct 2020 20:52
Iyionaku wrote:manduia pun tome - "to exist in the sand"
This is how I decided to translate the idiom "on the drawing board". Like many idioms in Yélian, this has something to do with the desert. The idiom originally only referred to streets that were obfuscated by the dunes of the desert, but now it can be used for anything that was not robustly planned and doesn't actually exist and serve a purpose.
I like this etymology a lot [:D]
Seconded - this is really neat!
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.

:eng: :mrgreen: | :fra: [:)] | ASL [:S] | :deu: [:|] | :tan: [:(] | :nav: [:'(]
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