Negation

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Xing
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Negation

Post by Xing »

EDIT:
How do your (con)langs handle negation? Negation could be done through negative indefinite pronouns (a), predicate negation (b) and/or negative existential constructions (c). Do you have all of these means in you langs? Can you combine them? Do they carry with them some differences in meaning?

:eng:

(1)
a. He knows nothing.
b. He doesn't know anything.
c. There is nothing that he knows.

(2)
a. I saw nobody.
b. I didn't see anybody.
c. There was no one that I saw.



:con: Waʻtē

Negative existential constructions:

(1)
Xe kū egā me‘te koma ā xī.
PRST NEG be.there thing know ERG 3s

(2)
Xe kū egā teāne ko kipe ā mai.
PRST NEG be.there person PRFT see ERG 1s
Last edited by Xing on 30 Dec 2011 14:05, edited 5 times in total.
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Ear of the Sphinx
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Re: Negation

Post by Ear of the Sphinx »

:pol: Polish
Double negation + genitive

1. On nie wie niczego. (On niczego nie wie.)
he NEG know.3SG nothing.GEN

2. Nie zobaczyłem nikogo. (Nikogo nie zobaczyłem.)
NEG see.PAST.1SG nobody.GEN


:con: Emyt
Negation on verb

1. Dait koto-kiśgurtǫrav.
he everything.GEN-NEG.know.GNO

2. Kot-kiśsolnįmen.
everybody.GEN-NEG.see.PAST.1SG
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Ilaeriu
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Re: Negation

Post by Ilaeriu »

:kor:

(1)
알은 것 없어요.
know-ADJ thing not.exist-PRES
There is nothing he knows.

아무것도 몰라.
anything does.not.know-PRES
He doesn't know anything.

(2)
I saw nobody.
아무도 보지 않아요.

I didn't see anybody.
보는 누군가 없어요.
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Re: Negation

Post by xinda »

:roc: Mandarin
1
a) 他什麽都不知道。
b) 他什麽都不知道。
c) 他什麽都不知道。
3s what entirely NEG know
[tʰa˥ ʂən˨˩mə toʊ˥ pu˥˩ tʂɨ˥taʊ̯˥˩]

2
a) 我誰都沒看見。
b) 我誰都沒看見。
c) 我誰都沒看見。
1s who entirely NEG see-meet
[wɤ˨˩ ʂeɪ˧˥ toʊ˥ meɪ˧˥ kʰan˥˩tsiɛn˥˩]


:jpn:
何も知っていない。
nani mo shitteinai
what=NEG know.TE-PROG

誰も見なかった。
dare mo minakatta
who=NEG see-NEG-PAST
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Chagen
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Re: Negation

Post by Chagen »

Foxro: Predicate Negation (1) , Or negative indefinite pronouns (2):

1:Kabvojasi midzamau.
[Ka-bvo-si mid-za-mau]
[any-thing-TOP know-3SG.M-NEG]

2: Uvezxa.
[Uve-zx-a]
[4.NEG.PL-see-1.SG]
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Visinoid
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Re: Negation

Post by Visinoid »

:fra:
(1)
Il ne sait rien.
he not knows nothing

(2)
Je n'ai vu personne.
I not have seen nobody

French has a double negation system in its written form, but not in it's spoken form (most of the time). :3
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Omzinesý
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Re: Negation

Post by Omzinesý »

In Gorrim the verbs are a closed class, so there can be 'negative verbs' that code negation lexically. After all, double negation is often used.
Everything and anything are the same word. The structure constitutes: Everything is what he does not know.

1)
a. He knows nothing. b. He doesn't know anything.
Orl eh azoil (mo) mu.
[oɭˠ e ɐ’zˠilʲ (mˠə) mˠu]
Lack:ACT in memory* (no) all.

c. There is nothing that he knows.
Orl zoim mu eh azoil.
[oɭˠ zˠimˠ mˠu e ɐ’zˠilʲ]
Lack:ACT EMPH-NEG all in memory*.

‘Memory’ is not a good translation for azoil. It’s more like the gathered information one has.
(2)
a. I saw nobody. b. I didn't see anybody.
Tyk deónr mo meu zraog.
[tˠʰïk dʲoɳˠ (mʲə) mʲu ʐˠɐh]
not.sense I (no) everybody visible

c. There was no one that I saw.
Tuog meu deónr gzaog
[tˠʰuh mʲu dʲoɳˠ gʐˠɐh]
Not.be all I act-seeing
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Cseúhro
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Re: Negation

Post by Cseúhro »

Visinoid wrote::fra:
(1)
Il ne sait rien.
he not knows nothing

(2)
Je n'ai vu personne.
I not have seen nobody
Can you also say "Il ne sait pas quelque chose." or "Je n'ai pas vu quelqu'un."?
:deu: [:D] | :eng: [:)] | :fra: [¬.¬] | :zho: :rus: :lat: [:'(]
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Aevas
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Re: Negation

Post by Aevas »

To me that sounds a bit like English "I haven't seen somebody". It doesn't really give the right connotations, and I'd expect something to follow, like J'ai pas vu quelqu'un qui...
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Ear of the Sphinx
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Re: Negation

Post by Ear of the Sphinx »

Visinoid wrote:(2)
Je n'ai vu personne.
I not have seen nobody
Hmm... Is personne negative per se?
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Visinoid
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Re: Negation

Post by Visinoid »

Cseúhro wrote:Can you also say "Il ne sait pas quelque chose." or "Je n'ai pas vu quelqu'un."?
Nope, I'd expect you to tell me more, as if your sentence were incomplete. But even though, it's really bad informal French. Even in speech, we avoid that.

Most used speech forms: J'ai vu personne. J'ai rien vu.
Aszev wrote:To me that sounds a bit like English "I haven't seen somebody". It doesn't really give the right connotations, and I'd expect something to follow, like J'ai pas vu quelqu'un qui...
If I speak spontaneously, without thinking of being 100% sure it's good French, I'd say:

J'ai vu parsonne (dialectal: personne) qui pouvait ben (dialectal: bien) chanter.
I didn't see anybody that could sing well
Milyamd wrote:Hmm... Is personne negative per se?
Oh, yes, it is. It means "a person" and "nobody".
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Selinki
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Re: Negation

Post by Selinki »

:con: Selinki

:eng: a. He knows nothing. b. He doesn't know anything.
:con: a.,b. He miztavaj mizczeny
[he miztav"aj mizts`en"}]
He NEG-know-3SG NEG-what-ACC

:eng: c. There is nothing that he knows.
:con: c. Mizbaj mizczeny, czes he tavaj
[mizb"aj mizts`en"} ts`es he tav"aj]
NEG-be-3SG NEG-what-ACC, what-ACC he know-3SG

:eng: a. I saw nobody. b. I didn't see anybody.
:con: a.,b. Je mizoviol mizkitao
[je miz"o:viol<vzd> mizkit"ao]
I NEG-see-PST.1SG NEG-who-ACC

:eng: c. There was no one that I saw.
:con: c. Mizbadaj mizkitao, kitao je oviol
[mizb"a:daj mizkit"ao, kit"ao je "o:viol<vzd>
NEG-be-PST.3SG NEG-who-ACC, who-ACC I see-PST.1SG
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Re: Negation

Post by DanH34 »

:eng:
(2)
a. I saw nobody.
b. I didn't see anybody.
c. There was no one that I saw.

:con: Zidhgebzhail

a. vil zoitef gAin
v-il zoit-ef g-Ai-n
1-ERG.SG.M nobody.ACC.SG.M PAST-see-SIMPLE
I saw nobody.

b. vil zeilef gAinoi
v-il zeil-ef g-Ai-n-oi
1-ERG.SG.M anyody.ACC.SG.M PAST-see-SIMPLE-NEG_REALIS
I didn't see anybody.

c. g[yh]a-zoit hoz vy gAin
g[y-h]a-zoit h-oz v-y g-Ai-n
PAST-COP1-nobody.ABS.SG.M SUBORDINATOR-ANIMATE 1-ACC.SG.M PAST-see-SIMPLE
Was nobody who I saw.
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Zidhgebzhail Orthography
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Re: Negation

Post by CMunk »

:dan:
1.
Han ved ingenting. / Han ved intet. (!)
3pms.NOM know.PRS nothing
"He knows nothing"

Han ved ikke noget. (!)
3pms.NOM know.PRS not something
"He doesn't know anything"

Der er ikke noget han ved.
There be.PRS not something 3pms.NOM know.PRS
"There is nothing that he knows"

2.
Jeg så ingen.
1ps.NOM see.PST nobody
"I saw nobody"

Jeg så ikke nogen. (!)
1ps.NOM see.PST not somebody.
"I didn't see anybody"

Der var ikke nogen jeg så. (?)
There be.PST not somebody 1ps.NOM see.PST
"There was no one that I saw"

(!) - Preferred
(?) - Sounds a bit odd
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Re: Negation

Post by Prinsessa »

:con: Vanga:

a. 1)
(No) jœw æiji.
He knows nothing.
(INTSF) see-3PS NEG
[nɔ jœw ˈæ͡ɪjɪ]

a. 2)
(No) jœw æiji.
He doesn't know anything.
(INTSF) see-3PS NEG
[nɔ jœw ˈæ͡ɪjɪ]

a. 3)
Æijiwœn, ah jœw.
There is nothing that he knows.
NEG-ESS.3PS REL-ABS see-3PS
[ˈæ͡ɪjɪwœn aˈçœw]

b. 1)
(No) jolla æiji.
I saw nobody.
INTSF see<PAST>-1PS NEG
[nɔ ˈjɔl̥ːɑ ˈæ͡ɪjɪ]

b. 2)
(No) jolla æiji.
I didn't see anybody.
INTSF see<PAST>-1PS NEG
[nɔ ˈjɔl̥ːɑ ˈæ͡ɪjɪ]

b. 3)
Æijiwœn, ah jolla.
There was no one that I saw.
NEG-ESS.3PS REL-ABS see<PAST>-1PS
[ˈæ͡ɪjɪwœn aˈçɔl̥ːɑ]
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Chagen
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Re: Negation

Post by Chagen »

Adari tends to use negative constructions, not pronouns:

1.
(Eot) altoraçu da cuistio.
[3.SG.M.NOM any-thing-ACC NEG know-3.SG.A]

2.
(Y) altoadaru da çemaí.
[1.SG.NOM any-person-ACC NEG see-PST.1.SG]
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Re: Negation

Post by Creyeditor »

:con: Kobardon
I think Kobardon would use a negated intransitive verbs for both of these.
(1)
Abrint sirat.
a-brint sira-t
3SG-know NEG-SG
He doesn't know anything.

However, this can also mean sth like He doesn't know a lot.. The intransitive verb abrint also means to be wise.

(2)
Asirb sirat.
a-sirb sira-t
3SG-see NEG-SG
He doesn't see anything/anybody.

This can also mean He cannot see anything. If you want to specifically refer to a person, you can use a transitive verb and constituent negation.

Asirbo sirar nigi.
a-sirb-o sira-r nig-i
3SG-see-3.O NEG-SG person-SG.INDEF
He doesn't see anybody.
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Re: Negation

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Paatherye

Yuwē wīthe nīle.
[ˈju.eː ˈwiːtʰe ˈniːle]
3SG.MASC.NOM know.3SG.MASC nothing.ACC
He knows nothing.

Nē yuwē waytheme antāyan.
[neː ˈju.eː ˈwai̯tʰeme anˈtaːjan]
NEG.3SG.MASC 3SG.MASC.NOM know.INF thing.ACC
Not does he know anything.

Kanye yuwē wīthe thē nīle.
[ˈkanje ˈju.eː ˈwiːtʰe tʰeː ˈniːle]
exist.3SG 3SG.MASC.NOM know.3SG.MASC REL.INAN.MASC.ACC nothing.ACC
There is nothing that he knows.

I am unsure about the last two sentences - they are grammatical, but I'm not sure if they are semantically meaningful, or if a Paatherye speaker would find them odd.

Ēku yas mintū nilpaythan.
[ˈeːku jasa ˈmintuː nilˈpai̯tʰan]
1SG.NOM AUX.AOR.1SG see.PP nobody.ACC
I saw nobody.

Nulī ēku mīntame paytheran.
[ˈnuliː ˈeːku ˈmiːntame pai̯ˈtʰeran]
NEG.IPF.1SG 1SG.NOM see.INF anybody.ACC
I didn't see anybody.

Kanye ēku yas mintū jirā nilpaythan.
[ˈkanje ˈeːku jas ˈmintuː ˈd͡ʒiraː nilˈpai̯tʰan]
exist.3SG 1SG.NOM AUX.AOR.1SG see.PP nobody.ACC
There was nobody that I saw.
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tikoo
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Re: Negation

Post by tikoo »

In my 3S language there is one symbol/phoneme that serves for negation. y . This sound represents 'spitting out' or perhaps more extremely 'puking' . It is Opposition. ye could mean either no communication or poor communication or evil communication. These might be equal. The listener must always reason context with love and care.

The word yi is curious. Negative and positive occur at the same time. It implies an absurdity.

The meaning of Opposition has been my most difficult understanding. It can be so moral. I am both relaxed and on the alert about it.
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