griuskant (without script here)
aesk jiska zida er houta souz.
/'esk 'dʒiska 'zida 'ər 'hɔuta 'sɔuz/
1SG see-V got-V N-IMP food-V cake
I saw a person ate the cake. (For all 4 variants typically)
Relative tense
- kiwikami
- roman
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: 26 May 2012 17:24
- Location: Oh, I don't know, I'm probably around here somewhere.
Re: Relative tense
Alál
Kàtlıà rîıẓràaı hraús.
[ə'qɑtɬjɑ ɾi'et͡ʃɾɑhɪ çɾʕ̞us]
ka<à>t-lı-à rı<îv>ẓ-rà-ı-a hra<aú>s
see<1.3>-PSTR--CONC eat<4.3>-NMLZ.PAT-DUR-VOL.ACT cake<PAT>
I saw that someone was eating the cake.
Kàtlıà rîıẓràkûax hraús.
[ə'qɑtɬjɑ ɾi'et͡ʃɾɑˌqwɑx çɾʕ̞us]
ka<à>t-lı-à rı<îv>ẓ-rà-kú-à-x hra<aú>s
see<1.3>-PSTR--CONC eat<4.3>-NMLZ.PAT-PST.EVE--CONC-VOL.ACT cake<PAT>
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
Kàtà rîıẓràaı hraús.
[ə'qɑtɑ ɾi'et͡ʃɾɑhɪ çɾʕ̞us]
ka<à>t-à rı<îv>ẓ-rà-ı-a hra<aú>s
see<1.3>-CONC eat<4.3>-NMLZ.PAT-DUR-VOL.ACT cake<PAT>
I see that someone is eating the cake.
Kàtà rîıẓràkûax hraús.
[ə'qɑtɑ ɾi'et͡ʃɾɑˌqwɑx çɾʕ̞us]
ka<à>t-à rı<îv>ẓ-rà-kú-à-x hra<aú>s
see<1.3>-CONC eat<4.3>-NMLZ.PAT-PST.EVE--CONC-VOL.ACT cake<PAT>
I see that someone has eaten the cake.
Alál marks reference and event time separately, for the most part. The latter ends up entangled with evidentiality and causality in a few constructions, mostly in the present tense, but when the reference time is in the past or the future it's rather straightforward. Verbs unmarked for tense are automatically contemporaneous with the last overtly marked time, so the eating event in the first sentence here is interpreted as simultaneous with the seeing event. This is useful because marking E* (event time being simultaneous with reference time) overtly tends to result in an indirect evidential meaning: Kàtlıà rîıẓkılràaı hraús. "I saw (some clue that) someone was eating the cake."
Kàtlıà rîıẓràaı hraús.
[ə'qɑtɬjɑ ɾi'et͡ʃɾɑhɪ çɾʕ̞us]
ka<à>t-lı-à rı<îv>ẓ-rà-ı-a hra<aú>s
see<1.3>-PSTR--CONC eat<4.3>-NMLZ.PAT-DUR-VOL.ACT cake<PAT>
I saw that someone was eating the cake.
Kàtlıà rîıẓràkûax hraús.
[ə'qɑtɬjɑ ɾi'et͡ʃɾɑˌqwɑx çɾʕ̞us]
ka<à>t-lı-à rı<îv>ẓ-rà-kú-à-x hra<aú>s
see<1.3>-PSTR--CONC eat<4.3>-NMLZ.PAT-PST.EVE--CONC-VOL.ACT cake<PAT>
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
Kàtà rîıẓràaı hraús.
[ə'qɑtɑ ɾi'et͡ʃɾɑhɪ çɾʕ̞us]
ka<à>t-à rı<îv>ẓ-rà-ı-a hra<aú>s
see<1.3>-CONC eat<4.3>-NMLZ.PAT-DUR-VOL.ACT cake<PAT>
I see that someone is eating the cake.
Kàtà rîıẓràkûax hraús.
[ə'qɑtɑ ɾi'et͡ʃɾɑˌqwɑx çɾʕ̞us]
ka<à>t-à rı<îv>ẓ-rà-kú-à-x hra<aú>s
see<1.3>-CONC eat<4.3>-NMLZ.PAT-PST.EVE--CONC-VOL.ACT cake<PAT>
I see that someone has eaten the cake.
Alál marks reference and event time separately, for the most part. The latter ends up entangled with evidentiality and causality in a few constructions, mostly in the present tense, but when the reference time is in the past or the future it's rather straightforward. Verbs unmarked for tense are automatically contemporaneous with the last overtly marked time, so the eating event in the first sentence here is interpreted as simultaneous with the seeing event. This is useful because marking E* (event time being simultaneous with reference time) overtly tends to result in an indirect evidential meaning: Kàtlıà rîıẓkılràaı hraús. "I saw (some clue that) someone was eating the cake."
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.
| | ASL | | |
- prettydragoon
- sinic
- Posts: 442
- Joined: 29 Jan 2012 10:22
- Location: Third star on the left, straight on till tiffin
- Contact:
Re: Relative tense
Rireinutire
neakiva hii miku tikina nomakiva:
/ˈneɑkivɑ hiː ˈmiku ˈtikinɑ ˈnomɑkivɑ/
nea-ki-va hii miku tiki-na noma-ki-va ||
see-PST-SENS that.CONJ someone.NOM cake-PTV eat-PST-SENS ||
I saw that someone was eating the cake.
neakiva hii miku tikimu nomakivo:
/ˈneɑkivɑ hiː ˈmiku ˈtikimu ˈnomɑkivo/
nea-ki-va hii miku tiki-mu noma-ki-vo ||
see-PST-SENS that.CONJ someone.NOM cake-ACC eat-PST-INFR ||
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
neakava hii miku tikina nomakava:
/ˈneɑkɑvɑ hiː ˈmiku ˈtikinɑ ˈnomɑkɑvɑ/
nea-ka-va hii miku tiki-na noma-ka-va ||
see-PRS-SENS that.CONJ someone.NOM cake-PTV eat-PRS-SENS ||
I see that someone is eating the cake.
neakava hii miku tikimu nomakivo:
/ˈneɑkɑvɑ hiː ˈmiku ˈtikimu ˈnomɑkivo/
nea-ka-va hii miku tiki-mu noma-ki-vo ||
see-PRS-SENS that.CONJ someone.NOM cake-ACC eat-PST-INFR ||
I see that someone has eaten the cake.
Translation challenge 75/100
neakiva hii miku tikina nomakiva:
/ˈneɑkivɑ hiː ˈmiku ˈtikinɑ ˈnomɑkivɑ/
nea-ki-va hii miku tiki-na noma-ki-va ||
see-PST-SENS that.CONJ someone.NOM cake-PTV eat-PST-SENS ||
I saw that someone was eating the cake.
neakiva hii miku tikimu nomakivo:
/ˈneɑkivɑ hiː ˈmiku ˈtikimu ˈnomɑkivo/
nea-ki-va hii miku tiki-mu noma-ki-vo ||
see-PST-SENS that.CONJ someone.NOM cake-ACC eat-PST-INFR ||
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
neakava hii miku tikina nomakava:
/ˈneɑkɑvɑ hiː ˈmiku ˈtikinɑ ˈnomɑkɑvɑ/
nea-ka-va hii miku tiki-na noma-ka-va ||
see-PRS-SENS that.CONJ someone.NOM cake-PTV eat-PRS-SENS ||
I see that someone is eating the cake.
neakava hii miku tikimu nomakivo:
/ˈneɑkɑvɑ hiː ˈmiku ˈtikimu ˈnomɑkivo/
nea-ka-va hii miku tiki-mu noma-ki-vo ||
see-PRS-SENS that.CONJ someone.NOM cake-ACC eat-PST-INFR ||
I see that someone has eaten the cake.
Translation challenge 75/100
Re: Relative tense
(Note: Oftĕr is a term that covers a variety of savoury and sweet pastries. Think like the word "pizza" in its native Italian.)
Na Z̖ec Cĭjr Soun Etz Oftĕrĕr.
/na ðek kyjr soun ets/etst ɔftɛrɛr/
I see which.is what-which.is man eat flatbread.pl
I see a man who is eating flatbreads.
Na Z̖ec Cĭjr Soun Etz Oftĕrĕr.
/na ðek kyjr soun etst ɔftɛrɛr/
I see which.is what-which.is man eat/ate flatbread.pl
I see a man who ate flatbreads.
Na Z̖ect Cĭjr Soun Etz Oftĕrĕr.
/na ðekt kyjr soun ets ɔftɛrɛr/
I saw what-which.is man eat flatbread.pl
I saw a man who is eating flatbreads.
Na Z̖ect Cĭjr Soun Etzt Oftĕrĕr.
/na ðekt kyjr soun etst ɔftɛrɛr/
I saw which.is what-which.is man ate flatbread.pl
I saw a man who ate flatbreads.
There are a variety of ways to change the words to highlight different facts; for example, if you want to specify a particular man, you'd put Soun Ir Cĭjr Etz/t Oftĕrĕr after the fist verb. To say a fact, and not specify a particular person, you'd say Ir Soun Etz/t Oftĕrĕr. This way that I wrote it here implies he saw something that is a man who ate the cake.
We do this in Germanic languages to some degree. For example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 7em%22.png
As well, word order can be changed at times, but I'm not going to bother going into that.
Na Z̖ec Cĭjr Soun Etz Oftĕrĕr.
/na ðek kyjr soun ets/etst ɔftɛrɛr/
I see which.is what-which.is man eat flatbread.pl
I see a man who is eating flatbreads.
Na Z̖ec Cĭjr Soun Etz Oftĕrĕr.
/na ðek kyjr soun etst ɔftɛrɛr/
I see which.is what-which.is man eat/ate flatbread.pl
I see a man who ate flatbreads.
Na Z̖ect Cĭjr Soun Etz Oftĕrĕr.
/na ðekt kyjr soun ets ɔftɛrɛr/
I saw what-which.is man eat flatbread.pl
I saw a man who is eating flatbreads.
Na Z̖ect Cĭjr Soun Etzt Oftĕrĕr.
/na ðekt kyjr soun etst ɔftɛrɛr/
I saw which.is what-which.is man ate flatbread.pl
I saw a man who ate flatbreads.
There are a variety of ways to change the words to highlight different facts; for example, if you want to specify a particular man, you'd put Soun Ir Cĭjr Etz/t Oftĕrĕr after the fist verb. To say a fact, and not specify a particular person, you'd say Ir Soun Etz/t Oftĕrĕr. This way that I wrote it here implies he saw something that is a man who ate the cake.
We do this in Germanic languages to some degree. For example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 7em%22.png
As well, word order can be changed at times, but I'm not going to bother going into that.
Re: Relative tense
Euta, 7th translation
The tense of the main clause does not change. A particle can mark it if needed.
(Xe) kę́ę́ hóje wi soohó kéíke.
(SG1) see.EGO someone enjoy.SENS cake
'I saw that someone ate the cake.'
(Xe) kę́ę́ hóje wiyu soohó kéíke.
(SG1) see.EGO someone enjoy.DS.SIM cake
'I saw that someone ate the cake.'
'to see that someone did' is expressed with a complement clause.
'to see that someone was doing' is expressed with an adverbial clause.
The tense of the main clause does not change. A particle can mark it if needed.
(Xe) kę́ę́ hóje wi soohó kéíke.
(SG1) see.EGO someone enjoy.SENS cake
'I saw that someone ate the cake.'
(Xe) kę́ę́ hóje wiyu soohó kéíke.
(SG1) see.EGO someone enjoy.DS.SIM cake
'I saw that someone ate the cake.'
'to see that someone did' is expressed with a complement clause.
'to see that someone was doing' is expressed with an adverbial clause.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
Re: Relative tense
Welsh
Weles i fod rhywun yn bwyta teisen.
/'wɛlɛs i vɔd 'r̥əwɨn ən 'bʊɨ̯ta 'tɛɪ̯sɛn/
PST=see-PST.1SG 1SG SBRD.PRS someone COMP eat cake
Weles i fod rhywun wedi bwyta teisen.
/'wɛlɛs i vɔd 'r̥əwɨn 'wɛdi 'bʊɨ̯ta 'tɛɪ̯sɛn/
PST=see-PST.1SG 1SG SBRD.PRS someone ANT eat cake
Dw i'n gweld bod rhywun yn bwyta teisen.
/dwin gwɛld bɔd 'r̥əwɨn ən 'bʊɨ̯ta 'tɛɪ̯sɛn/
be.PRS.1SG=1SG=COMP see SBRD.PRS someone COMP eat cake
Dw i'n gweld bod rhywun wedi bwyta teisen.
/dwin gwɛld bɔd 'r̥əwɨn 'wɛdi 'bʊɨ̯ta 'tɛɪ̯sɛn/
be.PRS.1SG=1SG=COMP see SBRD.PRS someone ANT eat cake
Yorkish
Ʒe saw at noen is etten cake.
/jə sɒː ə nʊə̯n ɪs 'ɛtən cçɛa̯k/
1SG see.PST SBRD someone be.PRS.3 eat-PRS.PART cake
Ʒe saw at noen ha ettet cake.
/jə sɒː ə nʊə̯n a 'ɛtət cçɛa̯k/
1SG see.PST SBRD someone have.PRS eat-PST.PART cake
Ʒe sei at noen is etten cake.
/jə səi̯ ə nʊə̯n ɪs 'ɛtən cçɛa̯k/
1SG see.PRS SBRD someone be.PRS.3 eat-PRS.PART cake
Ʒe sei at noen ha ettet cake.
/jə səi̯ ə nʊə̯n a 'ɛtət cçɛa̯k/
1SG see.PRS SBRD someone have.PRS eat-PST.PART cake
Weles i fod rhywun yn bwyta teisen.
/'wɛlɛs i vɔd 'r̥əwɨn ən 'bʊɨ̯ta 'tɛɪ̯sɛn/
PST=see-PST.1SG 1SG SBRD.PRS someone COMP eat cake
Weles i fod rhywun wedi bwyta teisen.
/'wɛlɛs i vɔd 'r̥əwɨn 'wɛdi 'bʊɨ̯ta 'tɛɪ̯sɛn/
PST=see-PST.1SG 1SG SBRD.PRS someone ANT eat cake
Dw i'n gweld bod rhywun yn bwyta teisen.
/dwin gwɛld bɔd 'r̥əwɨn ən 'bʊɨ̯ta 'tɛɪ̯sɛn/
be.PRS.1SG=1SG=COMP see SBRD.PRS someone COMP eat cake
Dw i'n gweld bod rhywun wedi bwyta teisen.
/dwin gwɛld bɔd 'r̥əwɨn 'wɛdi 'bʊɨ̯ta 'tɛɪ̯sɛn/
be.PRS.1SG=1SG=COMP see SBRD.PRS someone ANT eat cake
Yorkish
Ʒe saw at noen is etten cake.
/jə sɒː ə nʊə̯n ɪs 'ɛtən cçɛa̯k/
1SG see.PST SBRD someone be.PRS.3 eat-PRS.PART cake
Ʒe saw at noen ha ettet cake.
/jə sɒː ə nʊə̯n a 'ɛtət cçɛa̯k/
1SG see.PST SBRD someone have.PRS eat-PST.PART cake
Ʒe sei at noen is etten cake.
/jə səi̯ ə nʊə̯n ɪs 'ɛtən cçɛa̯k/
1SG see.PRS SBRD someone be.PRS.3 eat-PRS.PART cake
Ʒe sei at noen ha ettet cake.
/jə səi̯ ə nʊə̯n a 'ɛtət cçɛa̯k/
1SG see.PRS SBRD someone have.PRS eat-PST.PART cake
: | : | : | :
Conlangs: Hawntow, Yorkish, misc.
she/her
Conlangs: Hawntow, Yorkish, misc.
she/her
Re: Relative tense
3SDL:
sÇ>¸u?¸?º@ºÉØ
(me seeing man eating food sweetened...)
by default, tense is static, so there's generally no need to relativize actions...
sÇ>¸u?¸?º@ºÉØ
(me seeing man eating food sweetened...)
by default, tense is static, so there's generally no need to relativize actions...
Re: Relative tense
Naguil
There are no special continuous forms, but the main verb can be modified by modal particles. The first one, ven comes from the modal verb "to do something right now" and beo literally means "done".
1) I saw that someone was eating the cake.
Eonil, benn uganil ven evirnein.
/ɛɔ'niːl | 'bɛnː u'gaːnil 'vɛn ɛ'viːrnɛin/
Eo-n-il, ben-n u-gan-il ven e-virn-ein.
1SG-see-PST man-NOM 3SG.M/F-eat-PST CONT.MOD DEF.ART-cake-ACC.
I saw, someone was eating the cake (at that moment).
2) I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
Eonil, benn uganil beo evirnein.
/ɛɔ'niːl| 'bɛnː u'gaːnil 'bɛːɔ ɛ'viːrnɛin/
Eo-n-il, ben-n u-gan-il beo e-virn-ein.
1SG-see-PST man-NOM 3SG.M/F-eat-PST done DEF.ART-cake-ACC.
I saw, someone has eaten the cake (and finished it).
3) I see that someone is eating the cake.
Eonean, benn ugana ven evirnein.
/ɛɔ'nɛːan | 'bɛnː u'gaːna 'vɛn ɛ'viːrnɛin/
Eo-ne-an, ben-n u-gan-a ven e-virn-ein.
1SG-see-PRS man-NOM 3SG.M/F-eat-PRS CONT.MOD DEF.ART-cake-ACC.
I see, someone is eating the cake (in this moment).
4) I see that someone has eaten the cake.
Eonean, benn uganil beo evirnein.
/ɛɔ'nɛːan | 'bɛnn u'gaːnil 'bɛːɔ ɛ'viːrnɛin/
Eo-ne-an, ben-n u-gan-il beo e-virn-ein.
1SG-see-PRS man-NOM 3SG.M/F-eat-PRS done DEF.ART-cake-ACC.
I see, someone has eaten the cake (and finished it).
There are no special continuous forms, but the main verb can be modified by modal particles. The first one, ven comes from the modal verb "to do something right now" and beo literally means "done".
1) I saw that someone was eating the cake.
Eonil, benn uganil ven evirnein.
/ɛɔ'niːl | 'bɛnː u'gaːnil 'vɛn ɛ'viːrnɛin/
Eo-n-il, ben-n u-gan-il ven e-virn-ein.
1SG-see-PST man-NOM 3SG.M/F-eat-PST CONT.MOD DEF.ART-cake-ACC.
I saw, someone was eating the cake (at that moment).
2) I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
Eonil, benn uganil beo evirnein.
/ɛɔ'niːl| 'bɛnː u'gaːnil 'bɛːɔ ɛ'viːrnɛin/
Eo-n-il, ben-n u-gan-il beo e-virn-ein.
1SG-see-PST man-NOM 3SG.M/F-eat-PST done DEF.ART-cake-ACC.
I saw, someone has eaten the cake (and finished it).
3) I see that someone is eating the cake.
Eonean, benn ugana ven evirnein.
/ɛɔ'nɛːan | 'bɛnː u'gaːna 'vɛn ɛ'viːrnɛin/
Eo-ne-an, ben-n u-gan-a ven e-virn-ein.
1SG-see-PRS man-NOM 3SG.M/F-eat-PRS CONT.MOD DEF.ART-cake-ACC.
I see, someone is eating the cake (in this moment).
4) I see that someone has eaten the cake.
Eonean, benn uganil beo evirnein.
/ɛɔ'nɛːan | 'bɛnn u'gaːnil 'bɛːɔ ɛ'viːrnɛin/
Eo-ne-an, ben-n u-gan-il beo e-virn-ein.
1SG-see-PRS man-NOM 3SG.M/F-eat-PRS done DEF.ART-cake-ACC.
I see, someone has eaten the cake (and finished it).
: mother tongue | : fluent (at work) | : room for improvement | : 2nd foreign lang in school | : poor
Re: Relative tense
Abaniscen
ni tanare celhie siano vieconan
1sg.O somebody-O cake eatA perceive<PFV>
[ɲiˈtã́ːnaɾɛ kɛɬʲɛˈɕíːjãnɔ ˈvʲǿːkɔ̃nãn]
I saw that someone was eating the cake.
ni tanare celhie sianona vieconan
1sg.O somebody-O cake eat-PFV perceive<PFV>
[ɲiˈtã́ːnaɾɛ kɛ́ɬʲɛɕiˈjã́ːnɔ̃na ˈvʲǿːkɔ̃nãn]
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
ni tanare celhie siano viecon
1sg.O somebody-O cake eat perceive
[ɲiˈtã́ːnaɾɛ kɛ́ɬɛˈɕíːjãnɔ ˈvʲǿːkɔ̃n]
I see that someone is eating the cake.
ni tanare celhie sianona viecon
1sg.O somebody-O cake eat-PFV perceive
ɲiˈtã́ːnaɾɛ kɛ́ɬʲɛɕiˈjã́ːnɔ̃na ˈvʲǿːkɔ̃n
I see that someone has eaten the cake.
new words:
tana – someone, something
celhie – cake, pastry
Translation challenge 70‰
ni tanare celhie siano vieconan
1sg.O somebody-O cake eatA perceive<PFV>
[ɲiˈtã́ːnaɾɛ kɛɬʲɛˈɕíːjãnɔ ˈvʲǿːkɔ̃nãn]
I saw that someone was eating the cake.
ni tanare celhie sianona vieconan
1sg.O somebody-O cake eat-PFV perceive<PFV>
[ɲiˈtã́ːnaɾɛ kɛ́ɬʲɛɕiˈjã́ːnɔ̃na ˈvʲǿːkɔ̃nãn]
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
ni tanare celhie siano viecon
1sg.O somebody-O cake eat perceive
[ɲiˈtã́ːnaɾɛ kɛ́ɬɛˈɕíːjãnɔ ˈvʲǿːkɔ̃n]
I see that someone is eating the cake.
ni tanare celhie sianona viecon
1sg.O somebody-O cake eat-PFV perceive
ɲiˈtã́ːnaɾɛ kɛ́ɬʲɛɕiˈjã́ːnɔ̃na ˈvʲǿːkɔ̃n
I see that someone has eaten the cake.
new words:
tana – someone, something
celhie – cake, pastry
Translation challenge 70‰