Relative tense

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Xing
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Relative tense

Post by Xing »

:eng:

I saw that someone was eating the cake.

I saw that someone had eaten the cake.

I see that someone is eating the cake.

I see that someone has eaten the cake.



:con: Gaku

Ko kipe a mai matte a ta taka ta keiku.
PFV see ERG 1s eat ERG SG person SG cake

Ko kipe a mai ko matte a ta taka ta keiku.
PFV see ERG 1s PVF ear ERG SG person SG cake

E kipe a mai matte a ta taka ta keiku.
PRS see ERG 1s eat ERG SG person SG cake

E kipe a mai ko matte a ta taka ta keiku.
PRS see ERG 1s PFV eat ERG SG person SG cake
Plusquamperfekt
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Re: Relative tense

Post by Plusquamperfekt »

:con: Miwonša

I saw that someone was eating the cake.
Žayaniman, astai kjantso miwačan pisjai.
see<PAST>-1SG-IPFV, that-ACC someone-NOM eat<PAST>-IPFV cake-ACC.

I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
Žayaniman, astai kjantso miwačit pisjai.
see<PAST>-1SG-IPFV, that-ACC someone-NOM eat<PAST>-3SG.PFV cake-ACC.

I see that someone is eating the cake.
Žayaniman, astai kjantso mičan pisjai.
see-1SG-IPFV, that-ACC someone-NOM eat-IPFV cake-ACC

I see that someone has eaten the cake.
Žayaniman, astai kjantso miwačit pisjai.
see-1SG-IPFV, that-ACC someone eat<PAST>-3SG.PFV cake-ACC




Could it be that my tense/aspect system is a little too inspired by Slavic languages?! [B)]
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Re: Relative tense

Post by Micamo »

Image Haneko

papai wa iyawa tameno kohori wawako
papai wa iyawa tame-no koho-ri w-awa-ko
INDEF.H ERG cassava flat-ADN eat-ACT.NMLZ 1s.A-sense-REC.WIT

papai wa iyawa tameno kohoripe wawako
papai wa iyawa tame-no koho-ri-pe w-awa-ko
INDEF.H ERG cassava flat-ADN eat-ACT.NMLZ-PST 1s.A-sense-REC.WIT

papai wa iyawa tameno kohori wawa
papai wa iyawa tame-no koho-ri w-awa
INDEF.H ERG cassava flat-ADN eat-ACT.NMLZ 1s.A-sense-REC.WIT

papai wa iyawa tameno kohoripe wawa
papai wa iyawa tame-no koho-ri-pe w-awa
INDEF.H ERG cassava flat-ADN eat-ACT.NMLZ-PST 1s.A-sense
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

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Re: Relative tense

Post by Lao Kou »

Image Géarthnuns

Sí lé, gü shahöcheths lév cha zçansat höiglozh sho, tel.
1SG-NOM AUX.PAST, CONJ someone-NOM AUX.PAST.IMPERS DEF cake-ACC eat-DISC PTCL, see
I saw that someone was eating the cake.

Sí lé, gü shahöcheths löiv cha zçansat höiglozh sho, tel.
1SG-NOM AUX.PAST, CONJ someone-NOM AUX.PASTPRF.IMPERS DEF cake-ACC eat-DISC PTCL, see
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.

Sí la, gü shahöcheths lav cha zçansat höiglozh sho, tel.
1SG-NOM AUX.PRES, CONJ someone-NOM AUX.PRES.IMPERS DEF cake-ACC eat-DISC PTCL, see
I see that someone is eating the cake.

Sí la, gü shahöcheths löv cha zçansat höiglozh sho, tel.
1SG-NOM AUX.PRES, CONJ someone-NOM AUX.PRESPRF.IMPERS DEF cake-ACC eat-DISC PTCL, see
I see that someone has eaten the cake.
Last edited by Lao Kou on 25 Mar 2016 14:16, edited 2 times in total.
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Chagen
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Re: Relative tense

Post by Chagen »

Dependent clauses don't have tense in Sunbyaku, so 1 and 2 are the same:

saltaga zō jiruyul ma shima ma niriji
someone=AGT sweet-bread=PAT eat.GER=PAT see-PST-1S

Dependent clauses of this type are just gerund clauses that are then used as the subject of a normal sentence. Here's what 3 and 4 would be:

saltaga zō jiruyul ma shima ma niji
someone=AGT sweet-bread=PAT eat.GER=PAT see-1S

One morpheme deleted and that's it.

If you really had to specify the time in the dependent clause you could throw in a time adverb there.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Re: Relative tense

Post by Omzinesý »

Vtain:

Infinitives have two tenses: the present and the perfect.

Saxo jeme kehni ḍamäh dhieno.
sg1.SPEC.ERG someone.SPEC.ACC cake.NSPEC.DAT eat.PRS.INF see.AOR
'I saw someone eating cake.'

Saxo jeme kehni ḍamüh dhieno.
sg1.SPEC.ERG someone.SPEC.ACC cake.NSPEC.DAT eat.PERF.INF see.AOR
'I saw someone having eaten cake.'

Saxo jeme kehni ḍamäh dhieni.
sg1.SPEC.ERG someone.SPEC.ACC cake.NSPEC.DAT eat.PRS.INF see-PRS
'I see someone eating cake.'

Saxo jeme kehni ḍamüh dheini.
sg1.SPEC.ERG someone.SPEC.ACC cake.NSPEC.DAT eat.PERF.INF see-PRS
'I see someone having eaten cake.'
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Re: Relative tense

Post by k1234567890y »

A priori conlangs of 8th world:

:con: Lonmai Luna/Liunan

se ledo dem hir dula nat gata kuhen on.
1.SG PAST see someone PROGRESSIVE eat cake the.
I saw that someone was eating the cake.

se ledo dem hir dula ledano gata kuhen on.
1.SG PAST see someone PERFECT eat cake the.
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.

se dem hir dula nat gata kuhen on.
1.SG see someone PROGRESSIVE eat cake the.
I see/saw that someone is/was eating the cake.

se dem hir dula ledano gata kuhen on.
1.SG see someone PERFECT eat cake the.
I see/saw that someone has/had eaten the cake.

:con: Nevotak

ur no retak mir bek mirisbek.
1.pron see/find someone already/finish eat snack.
I saw that someone had eaten the snack./I see that someone has eaten the snack.

ur no retak en bek mirisbek.
1.pron see/find someone be/at eat snack.
I saw that someone was eating the snack./I see that someone is eating the snack.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Relative tense

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

:esp: Spanish

Vi que alguien estaba comiendo (comía*) el pastel.
Vi que alguien hubo comido el pastel.
Veo que alguien está comiendo el pastel.
Veo que alguien ha comido el pastel.



* Using the verb "comer" in the imperfect here is functionally equivalent to use of "estar" in the imperfect plus the gerund since the imperfect implies a sense of habitual or continuous action.
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Re: Relative tense

Post by taylorS »

Future English has a Perfect (called "Retrospective" to prevent confusion with the Perfective Aspect) derived from the modern English Present Perfect Progressive

IMPERS = Impersonal
RET - Retrospective

Eso da' samuzi'n sï da' hé'g.
1SG-see.PST.PFV SUB=IMPRS-PST-eat-IMPFV ACC=DEF=cake
/ˈɛsɔ ta̰samuˈzḭn sɨta̰ˈxḛk/
I saw that someone was eating the cake.

Eso da' samimi' sï da' hé'g.
1SG-see.PST.PFV SUB=IMPRS-RET-eat ACC=DEF=cake
/ˈɛsɔ ta̰saˈmimḭ sɨta̰ˈxḛk/
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.

Esi da' sami'n sï da' hé'g.
1SG-see SUB=IMPRS-eat-IMPFV ACC=DEF=cake
/ˈɛsɔ ta̰saˈmḭn sɨta̰ˈxḛk/
I see that someone is eating the cake.

Esi da' samimi' sï da' hé'g.
1SG-see SUB=IMPRS-RET-eat ACC=DEF=cake
/ˈɛsi ta̰saˈmimḭ sɨta̰ˈxḛk/
I see that someone has eaten the cake.
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Re: Relative tense

Post by All4Ɇn »

:con: Niijerj

Eu voiyí que desõn mãngeoissi la tåte.
[ɔʏ voi.jaɪ kɛ dɛ.sɔ̃n mɔ̃n.d͡ʒoi.si la tɑ.tɛ]
I saw that someone was eating the cake

Eu voiyí que desõn oissi mãngé la tåte.
[ɔʏ voi.jaɪ kɛ dɛ.sɔ̃n oi.si mɔ̃n.d͡ʒe la tɑ.tɛ]
I saw that someone had eaten the cake

J’ínní desõn mãngent la tåte.
[ʒaɪ.naɪ dɛ.sɔ̃n mɔ̃n.d͡ʒent la tɑ.tɛ]
I see someone eating the cake

J’ínní que desõn é mãngé la tåte.
[ʒaɪ.naɪ kɛ dɛ.sɔ̃n e mɔ̃n.d͡ʒe la tɑ.tɛ]
I see that someone has eaten the cake
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Re: Relative tense

Post by Dormouse559 »

:fra: French

J'ai vu que quelqu'un mangeait le gâteau.
/ʒɛ vy k kɛlkœ̃ mɑ̃ʒɛ l gɑto/
1SG=have.1SG see-PST_PTCP SUB_CNJ someone eat-3SG.IPRF DEF.M cake

J'ai vu que quelqu'un avait mangé le gâteau.
/ʒɛ vy k kɛlkœ̃‿navɛ mɑ̃ʒe l gɑto/
1SG=have.1SG see-PST_PTCP SUB_CNJ someone have-3SG.IPRF eat-PST_PTCP DEF.M cake

Je vois que quelqu'un mange le gâteau.
/ʒ vwa k kɛlkœ̃ mɑ̃ʒ lə gɑto/
1SG see[3SG] SUB_CNJ someone eat[3SG] DEF.M cake

Je vois que quelqu'un a mangé le gâteau.
/ʒ vwa k kɛlkœ̃‿na mɑ̃ʒe l gɑto/
1SG see[3SG] SUB_CNJ someone have.3SG eat-PST_PTCP DEF.M cake


:con: Selvesc
The first option on the first two sentences implies that you saw this recently, at most a few days ago. The second option in the same sentences means that you saw this more than a few days ago.

Ó vesud / Vesèi ca calcùn mangzava le tort.
[ˈɔ vɛˈzot vɛˈzaɪ̯ ka kalˈkon manˈdʑava lə ˈtɔɾt]
have.1SG see-PST_PTCP / see-1SG.PST SUB_CNJ someone eat-IPRF-3SG DEF.F.OBL cake[OBL]

Ó vesud / Vesèi ca calcùn èu mangzad le tort.
[ˈɔ vɛˈzot vɛˈzaɪ̯ ka kalˈkon ˈaʊ̯ manˈdʑat lə ˈtɔɾt]
have.1SG see-PST_PTCP / see-1SG.PST SUB_CNJ someone have.3SG.PST eat-PST_PTCP DEF.F.OBL cake[OBL]

Gzo ves ca calcùn mange le tort.
[ˈdʑɔ ˈvɛs ka kalˈkon ˈmandʑə lə ˈtɔɾt]
1SG see[1SG] SUB_CNJ someone eat[3SG] DEF.F.OBL cake[OBL]

Gzo ves ca calcùn à mangzad le tort.
[ˈdʑɔ ˈvɛs ka kalˈkon ˈa manˈdʑat lə ˈtɔɾt]
1SG see[1SG] SUB_CNJ someone have.3SG eat-PST_PTCP DEF.F.OBL cake[OBL]


:con: Untitled
This language doesn't have grammatical tense. It does encode aspect. Perfective aspect often corresponds to the simple past in English but not often enough that this would be understood out of context; adding jattasi ("then") makes the past tense explicit. Out of context, the continuous aspect is assumed to refer to the present, so no adverb is necessary.

ʻAwrali jamû kumaguku daxiʻu (jattasi).
[ˈʔɑu̯rɑ̃li ˈʒæ̃muː ˈkõmɑ̃ŋoku ˈdɑxeʔu ˈʒɑtːɑsi]
ʻaw-rali ja=mû kuma-gu-k daxiʻu jattasi
PFV-see PRP=1SG.LAT eat-PAS-INF bread then

ʻAwrali jamû tîxi kamaguku daxiʻu (jattasi).
[ˈʔɑu̯rɑ̃li ˈʒæ̃muː ˈtiːxi ˈkõmɑ̃ŋoku ˈdɑxeʔu ˈʒɑtːɑsi]
ʻaw-rali ja=mû tîxi kuma-gu-k daxiʻu jattasi
PFV-see PRP=1SG.LAT before eat-PAS-INF bread then

Rali jamû kumaguku daxiʻu.
[ˈrɑ̃li ˈʒæ̃muː ˈkõmɑ̃ŋoku ˈdɑxeʔu]
rali ja=mû kuma-gu-k daxiʻu
[CONT]see PRP=1SG.LAT eat-PAS-INF bread

Rali jamû tîxi kumaguku daxiʻu.
[ˈrɑ̃li ˈʒæ̃muː ˈtiːxi ˈkõmɑ̃ŋoku ˈdɑxeʔu
rali ja=mû tîxi kuma-gu-k daxiʻu
[CONT]see PRP=1SG.LAT before eat-PAS-INF bread
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Re: Relative tense

Post by Iyionaku »

I saw that someone was eating the cake.
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
I see that someone is eating the cake.
I see that someone has eaten the cake.

:deu: German

Ich sah, dass jemand den Kuchen aß.
Ich sah, dass jemand den Kuchen gegessen hatte.
Ich sehe, dass jemand den Kuchen isst.
Ich sehe, dass jemand den Kuchen gegessen hat.

(This is prescriptive language, in familiar speech there would be no Präteritum tense but Perfekt tense)

:con: Yélian

Yivalai pi teʻa yimuyet u'mesól.
PST-see>1SG that someone PST-eat>3SG INAN-cake

Yivalai pi teʻa yiadésmuyet u'mesól.
PST-see>1SG that someone PST-already-eat>3SG INAN-cake

Valai pi teʻa muyet u'mesól.
see>1SG that someone eat>3SG INAN-cake

Valai pi teʻa yimuyet u'mesól.
see>1SG that someone PST-eat>3SG INAN-cake

There is no real past perfect in Yélian, instead you need to use adverbs that can express the perfective aspect, like adés (already), piytit (before) or ivon (finished)

:con: Caelian

Rar situdlyaz viz zöfang pillyunget simüstil.
1SG.NOM PST-see>SUB.1SG_INTR that someone cake.ACC PST-eat>SUB.3SG_OBJ.3SG

Rar situdlyaz viz zöfang pillyunget timüstil.
1SG.NOM PST-see>SUB.1SG_INTR that someone cake.ACC PREPST-eat>SUB.3SG_OBJ.3SG

Rar tudlyaz viz zöfang pillyunget müstil.
1SG.NOM see>SUB.1SG_INTR that someone cake.ACC eat>SUB.3SG_OBJ.3SG

Rar tudlyaz viz zöfang pillyunget simüstil.
1SG.NOM see>SUB.1SG_INTR that someone cake.ACC PST-eat>SUB.3SG_OBJ.3SG

To express actions before the past, there is the Pre-Past, marked with the prefix -ti.

:con: Anto

Da jezaje-da shas i'mom tote fezajfe-ton.
1SG see-PST-1SG someone IMPF cake eat-PST-3.ANIM

Da jezaje-da shas tote fezajfe-ton.
1SG see-PST-1SG someone cake eat-PST-3.ANIM

Da jeza-da shas tote fezaj-ton.
1SG see-1SG someone cake eat-3.ANIM

Da jeza-da shas tote fezajfe-ton.
1SG see-1SG someone cake eat-PST-3.ANIM

If an action in the past is not marked particularly as imperfective with particles like i'mom (at the moment), it is usually considered as completed to the speaking time. Therefore, the "past perfect" temporal stage is the unmarked form, whereas the "imperfective past" temporal stage is marked.

:con: Orkish

Khek kunnsob hax, zhuts gratst shamadzhez ptrelzhekt.
PERF see-1SG.ABS that CONT eat someone-ERG cake.ABS

Khek kunnsob hax, shext gratst shamadzhez ptrelzhekt.
PERF see-1SG.ABS that TERM eat someone-ERG cake.ABS

Kunnsob hax, zhuts gratst shamadzhez ptrelzhekt.
see-1SG.ABS that CONT eat someone-ERG cake.ABS

Kunnsob hax, khek gratst shamadzhez ptrelzhekt.
see-1SG.ABS that PERF eat someone-ERG cake.ABS

You use khek as a particle for the perfective aspect and zhuts as a particle for the continuative-progressive aspect. If the action that is described is finished already, it is possible to use khek in both main clause and subordinate clause, but this is considered bad style. You can use shext instead, which is normally the particle for the terminative aspect, but gets pre-past functions here.

:con: Elfish

ओकु तेऌपज़ व्वयू फि विड़्की पैथेड़ मो पेसड़्को.
Ēku telpas vayū phi wirkī payther mē pesarkē.

1SG.NOM get-PRS>1SG see.PP that eat.IMP>3SG someone.NOM DEF.MASC.ACC cake.ACC

ओकु तेऌपज़ व्वयू फि तिऌपुण पैथेड़ वुड़्कु मो पेसड़्को.
Ēku telpas vayū phi tilpun payther wurkū mē pesarkē.

1SG.NOM get-PRS>1SG see.PP that get-IMP>3SG someone.NOM eat.PP DEF.MASC.ACC cake.ACC

ओकु व्वयियज़ फि तीमज़ पैथेड़ वेज़्कमे मो पेसड़्को.
Ēku vayiyas phi tīmas payther weskame mē pesarkē.

1SG.NOM see.PRS>1SG that PROG.PRS>3SG esomeone.NOM at.INF DEF.MASC.ACC cake.ACC

ओकु व्वयियज़ फि पैथेड़ तेऌपज़ वुड़्कु मो पेसड़्को.
Ēku vayiyas phi telpas payther wurkū me pesarkē.

1SG.NOM see.PRS>1SG that get.PRS>3SG someone.NOM eat.PP DEF.MASC.ACC cake.ACC

There are a lot of options to express time stages. For ongoing actions in the past, you have the choice between imperfect tense and a combination of imperfect tense with progressive aspect, which is not seen gladly in higher textes. In the pre-past stage, you have the choice between Pluperfect forms of either aorist (only in colloquial speech), preterite (nearly only in formal speech) and imperfect (in both). I'm not sure which one is the correct form in the second sentences, so I went after an advice of the Elfish language community: "Imperfective pluperfect might sound odd but is never wrong".
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Re: Relative tense

Post by Creyeditor »

Iyionaku wrote:I saw that someone was eating the cake.
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
I see that someone is eating the cake.
I see that someone has eaten the cake.

:deu: German

Ich sah, dass jemand den Kuchen aß.
Ich sah, dass jemand den Kuchen gegessen hatte.
Ich sehe, dass jemand den Kuchen isst.
Ich sehe, dass jemand den Kuchen gegessen hat.

(This is prescriptive language, in familiar speech there would be no Präteritum tense but Perfekt tense)
Here is a more descriptive approach:

:deu: :de-hh: :de-ni: My own idiolect

Ich hab gesehen, wie jemand den Kuchen gegessen hat.
[ǁ(ĭ̥)çap‿gə.ˈseːn͡ɱ ǀ vi‿ˈʝe.mant̚ d̥en͡ŋ‿ˈkuːχŋ gə.ˈgɛsn‿h̆at̚ ǁ]
ich hab ge-seh-en wie jemand den Kuchen geg-ess-en ha-t
1SG AUX.PST PTCP-see-PTCP how someone DEF.ACC.M.SG cake PTCP-eat-PTCP AUX.PST-3SG
I saw that someone was eating the cake. (I was there the whole time.)

Ich hab gesehen, dass jemand den Kuchen gegessen hat.
[ǁ(ĭ̥)çap‿gə.ˈseːn͡ɱ ǀ da̽̆s‿ˈʝe.mant̚ d̥en͡ŋ‿ˈkuːχŋ gə.ˈgɛsn‿h̆at̚ ǁ]
ich hab ge-seh-en dass jemand den Kuchen geg-ess-en ha-t
1SG AUX.PST PTCP-see-PTCP COMPL someone DEF.ACC.M.SG cake PTCP-eat-PTCP AUX.PST-3SG
I saw that someone had eaten the cake. (I just noticed it a minute ago. I thought we would it the cake together [:(] )

Ich hab gesehen, dass jemand den Kuchen gegessen hatte.
[ǁ(ĭ̥)çap‿gə.ˈseːn͡ɱ ǀ da̽̆s‿ˈʝe.mant̚ d̥en͡ŋ‿ˈkuːχŋ gə.ˈgɛsn‿ˈh̆a.təǁ]
ich hab ge-seh-en dass jemand den Kuchen geg-ess-en ha-te
1SG AUX.PST PTCP-see-PTCP COMPL someone DEF.ACC.M.SG cake PTCP-eat-PTCP AUX.PST-3SG.PST
I saw that someone had eaten the cake. (some time ago, e.g. yesterday)

Ich seh, wie jemand den Kuchen isst.
[ǁ(ĭ̥)ç.ˈseːǀ vi‿ˈʝe.mant̚ d̥en͡ŋ‿ˈkuːχŋ‿ʔɪstǁ]
ich seh wie jemand den Kuchen iss-t.
1SG see how someone DEF.ACC.M.SG cake eat-3SG
I see that someone is eating the cake. (e.g. I'm describing a film)

Ich seh, dass jemand den Kuchen gegessen hat.
[ǁ(ĭ̥)ç.ˈseːǀ da̽̆s‿ˈʝe.mant̚ d̥en͡ŋ‿ˈkuːχŋ gə.ˈgɛsn‿h̆at̚ ǁ]
ich seh, dass jemand den Kuchen geg-ess-en ha-t
1SG see COMPL someone DEF.ACC.M.SG PTCP-eat-PTCP AUX.PST-3SG
I see that someone has eaten the cake. (There is no cake left, so someone must have eaten it.)
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Re: Relative tense

Post by jute »

I saw that someone was eating the cake.

I saw that someone had eaten the cake.

I see that someone is eating the cake.

I see that someone has eaten the cake.
The difference is only expressed via the adverbs 'he' (literally 'now', progressive aspect), 'lomohe' (literally 'already', perfective aspect) and 'dote' (literally 'once, earlier, at some point in the past', used as a generic past marker)

Joo ta a hemohi a hovanefade a sainiki dote he.
See 1S of eat-GER of cake-OBL of someone once PROG

Joo ta a hemohi a hovanefade a sainiki dote lomohe.
See 1S of eat-GER of cake-OBL of someone once PERF

Joo ta a hemohi a hovanefade a sainiki he.
See 1S of eat-GER of cake-OBL of someone PROG

Joo ta a hemohi a hovanefade a sainiki lomohe.
See 1S of eat-GER of cake-OBL of someone PERF
Jutean: Hawaiian phonology meets Tagalog, with English ergativity and Mandarin tenselessness added.
Also on CWS.
Information on Juteans and their homeland
GrandPiano
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Re: Relative tense

Post by GrandPiano »

Lemme attempt this in :zho: Mandarin...

(For each sentence, the first sentence shows the components of compound words, and the second one shows their meanings.)

我看见了某人在吃蛋糕。
Wǒ kànjiàn le mǒurén zài chī dàngāo.
[wɔ˨˩ kʰan˥˧t͡ɕjɛn˥˩ lɤ̆˩ məʊ̯˨˩ʐən˧˥ t͡saɪ̯˥˩ ʈ͡ʂʰʐ̩˥ tan˥˩kɑʊ̯˥]
1[SG] look-see PRF certain-person PROG eat egg-cake
1[SG] look-see PRF someone PROG eat cake
I saw that someone was eating the cake.

我看见了某人吃了蛋糕。
Wǒ kànjiàn le mǒurén chī le dàngāo.
[wɔ˨˩ kʰan˥˧t͡ɕjɛn˥˩ lɤ̆˩ məʊ̯˨˩ʐən˧˥ ʈ͡ʂʰʐ̩˥ lɤ̆˨ tan˥˩kɑʊ̯˥]
1[SG] look-see PRF certain-person eat PRF egg-cake
1[SG] look-see PRF someone eat PRF cake
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.

我看见某人在吃蛋糕。
Wǒ kànjiàn mǒurén zài chī dàngāo.
[wɔ˨˩ kʰan˥˧t͡ɕjɛn˥˩ məʊ̯˨˩ʐən˧˥ t͡saɪ̯˥˩ ʈ͡ʂʰʐ̩˥ tan˥˩kɑʊ̯˥]
1[SG] look-see certain-person PROG eat egg-cake
1[SG] look-see someone PROG eat cake
I see that someone is eating the cake.

我看见某人吃了蛋糕。
Wǒ kànjiàn mǒurén chī le dàngāo.
[wɔ˨˩ kʰan˥˧t͡ɕjɛn˥˩ məʊ̯˨˩ʐən˧˥ ʈ͡ʂʰʐ̩˥ lɤ̆˨ tan˥˩kɑʊ̯˥]
1[SG] look-see certain-person eat PRF egg-cake
1[SG] look-see someone eat PRF cake
I see that someone has eaten the cake.
ol bofosh
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Re: Relative tense

Post by ol bofosh »

Alahithian
Om hesirk savot ex pa fin toñ mawka pa kexet.
1s see-PST person some CONJ while 3s eat-PST-IMPRF DEF cake.
I saw that someone was eating the cake (lit. I saw someone whilst they were eating the cake)

Om hesirt savot ex pa fin toñ mawta pa kexet.
1s see-PRS person some CONJ while 3s eat-PRS-IMPRF DEF cake.
I see that someone is eating the cake.

I saw that someone had eaten the cake.

I see that someone has eaten the cake.

Not sure about how to deal with the last two at present. There's no such thing as a tensed verb complement clause in Alahithian (I think, I should go over my notes), so, like the above phrases, this is dealt with with a conjunction (combination of conjunction particle and postposition), but not sure what to put as a direct object in the first main clause.
"I saw ...? since/once the cake had been eaten by someone(someone had eaten the cake)"

I'll give it some thought and come back to this.
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Jake
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Re: Relative tense

Post by Jake »

I saw that someone was eating the cake and I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
Ja oqud́ a komud́ qéqa
[jɑː oʊxuːð ɑː koʊmuːð xeɪxɑː]
I saw something ate cake

I see that someone is eating the cake.
Ja oquń a komuń qéqa
[jɑː oʊxuːŋ ɑː koʊmuːŋ xeɪxɑː]
I seeing something eating cake

I see that someone has eaten the cake.
Ja oquń a komud́ qéqa
[jɑː oʊxuːŋ ɑː koʊmuːð xeɪxɑː]
I see something ate cake
ol bofosh
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Re: Relative tense

Post by ol bofosh »

ol bofosh wrote:Alahithian
Om hesirk savot ex pa fin toñ mawka pa kexet.
1s see-PST person some CONJ while 3s eat-PST-IMPRF DEF cake.
I saw that someone was eating the cake (lit. I saw someone whilst they were eating the cake)

Om hesirt savot ex pa fin toñ mawta pa kexet.
1s see-PRS person some CONJ while 3s eat-PRS-IMPRF DEF cake.
I see that someone is eating the cake.

I saw that someone had eaten the cake.

I see that someone has eaten the cake.

Not sure about how to deal with the last two at present. There's no such thing as a tensed verb complement clause in Alahithian (I think, I should go over my notes), so, like the above phrases, this is dealt with with a conjunction (combination of conjunction particle and postposition), but not sure what to put as a direct object in the first main clause.
"I saw ...? since/once the cake had been eaten by someone(someone had eaten the cake)"

I'll give it some thought and come back to this.
Tell a lie, a clause can become an object. What can't be done is a tensed verb in a relative clause. There is no complementiser like "that".
So...

Alahithian
Om hesirk savot ex mawka pa kexet.
1s see-PST person some eat-PST-IMPRF
I saw that someone was eating the cake.

Om hesirk savot ex mawko pa kexet.
1s see-PST person some eat-PST-PRF
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.

Om hesirt savot ex mawta pa kexet.
1s see-PRS person some eat-PRS-IMPRF
I see that someone is eating the cake.

Om hesirt savot ex mawto pa kexet.
1s see-PRS person some eat-PRS-PRF
I see that someone has eaten the cake.
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Lao Kou
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Re: Relative tense

Post by Lao Kou »

Image Japoné語

私 oué, j'ga 見ta que qui ca ga 食bététa le gâteau.
Ouétachi oué, j'ga mita que qui ca ga tabététa le gâteau.
[weˈtæʃi we ʒgɔ ˈmɪtɔ kœ̈ ki kɔ gɔ ˈtabeˌtetɔl gɔˈto]
1SG TOP, 1SG SUBJ see-PAST CONJ someone SUBJ eat-PROGPAST DEF.m cake.m
I saw that someone was eating the cake.

私 oué, j'ga 見ta que qui ca ga 食béta 既 ni le gâteau.
Ouétachi oué, j'ga mita que qui ca ga tabéta soudé ni le gâteau.
[weˈtæʃi we ʒgɔ ˈmɪtɔ kœ̈ ki kɔ gɔ ˈtabetɔ sʊde nil gɔˈto]
1SG TOP, 1SG SUBJ see-PAST CONJ someone SUBJ eat-PAST already DEF.m cake.m
I saw that someone had eaten the cake.

私 oué, j'ga 見rë que qui ca ga 食bétèrë le gâteau.
Ouétachi oué, j'ga mirë que qui ca ga tabétèrë le gâteau.
[weˈtæʃi we ʒgɔ ˈmɪi̯ʁœ̈ kœ̈ ki kɔ gɔ tabetæɛ̯ʁœ̈l gɔˈto]
1SG TOP, 1SG SUBJ see-PRES CONJ someone SUBJ eat-PROGPRES DEF.m cake.m
I see that someone is eating the cake.

私 oué, j'ga 見rë que qui ca ga 食bèrë 既 ni le gâteau.
Ouétachi oué, j'ga mirë que qui ca ga tabèrë soudé ni le gâteau.
[weˈtæʃi we ʒgɔ ˈmɪi̯ʁœ̈ kœ̈ ki kɔ gɔ taˈbæɛ̯ʁœ̈ sʊde nil gɔˈto]
1SG TOP, 1SG SUBJ see-PRES CONJ someone SUBJ eat-PRES already DEF.m cake.m
I see that someone has eaten the cake.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
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Dormouse559
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Re: Relative tense

Post by Dormouse559 »

Updating Image Silvish

The underlying grammar here has changed slightly. Like I explained in 2014 (Oh goodness, it's been six-and-a-half years [>_<] ), there are two past-tense options. There's the pasó kompozó [paˈso kɔ̃m.pəˈzo], for events in the past few days, and there's the pasó semplo [paˈso ˈsɛ̃m.plə], for events further back than that. But there's another complication that I didn't include, because each of these tenses gets its own pluperfect (plukkeparfé proçho [plyk.ke.pɑˈfe ˈpʁɔːh] and plukkeparfé lointan [plyk.ke.pɑˈfe lwɛ̃ˈtɑ̃ŋ], respectively). I'll write each option out fully, pasó kompozó first, pasó semplo second.
  1.  
    Jh' e vezu ke kalk' un manjhéva lo guattê.
    [ʒɛvˈzy ke.kɑˈkɛ̃ŋ mɑ̃ˈʒe.va lo.ʒɑˈtɛː]
    1S.NOM have.1S see-PP SBRD some one eat-IPF-3S DEF-M.C cake


    Jho vizo ke kalk' un manjhéva lo guattê.
    [ʒəˈviːz ke.kɑˈkɛ̃ŋ mɑ̃ˈʒe.va lo.ʒɑˈtɛː]
    1S.NOM see.PST-1S SBRD some one eat-IPF-3S DEF-M.C cake


    I saw that someone was eating the cake.
     
  2.  
    Jh' e vezu ke kalk' un l' avi' mmanjheu lo guattê.
    [ʒɛvˈzy ke.kɑˈkɛ̃ŋ la.vim.mɑ̃ˈʒø lo.ʒɑˈtɛː]
    1S.NOM have.1S see-PP SBRD some one 3S have-IPF-3S eat-PP DEF-M.C cake


    Jho vizo ke kalk' un l' o manjheu lo guattê.
    [ʒəˈviːz ke.kɑˈkɛ̃ŋ lo.mɑ̃ˈʒø lo.ʒɑˈtɛː]
    1S.NOM see.PST-1S SBRD some one 3S have.PST.3S eat-PP DEF-M.C cake


    I saw that someone had eaten the cake.
     
  3.  
    Jho voiyo ke kalk' un manjhe lo guattê.
    [ʒəˈvuːj ke.kɑˈkɛ̃ŋ ˈmɑ̃ɲ̟.ʒə lo.ʒɑˈtɛː]
    1S.NOM see.1S SBRD some one eat-3S DEF-M.C cake

    I see that someone is eating the cake.
     
  4.  
    Jho voiyo ke kalk' un l' a manjheu lo guattê.
    [ʒəˈvuːj ke.kɑˈkɛ̃ŋ lamɑ̃ˈʒø lo.ʒɑˈtɛː]
    1S.NOM see.1S SBRD some one 3S have.3S eat-PP DEF-M.C cake


    Jho voiyo ke kalk' un manjhi lo guattê.
    [ʒəˈvuːj ke.kɑˈkɛ̃ŋ mɑ̃ˈʒi lo.ʒɑˈtɛː]
    1S.NOM see.1S SBRD some one eat-PST.3S DEF-M.C cake


    I see that someone has eaten the cake.

:con: Ilóhra

Ilóhra's tense situation is simpler. The independent clause determines the time frame, and then the tense of the subordinate clause is interpreted relative to that. As a result, there are only two forms for the subordinate clauses in these translations.

Tòuruþ ambea hurmunzumbeþu šila.
[ˈtɔu̯ruθ ˈambea hurmunˈd͡zumbeθu ˈʃila]
tòuruþ-∅ ambe-a hórum-unzu-t-hèiþ-u šila-∅-œ
cake-ABS someone-ERG eat-PROG-3S=SBRD-ACC notice-PFT-1S

I saw that someone was eating the cake.

Tòuruþ ambea hurmuzumbeþu šila.
[ˈtɔu̯ruθ ˈambea hurmuˈzumbeθu ˈʃila]
tòuruþ-∅ ambe-a hórum-su-t-hèiþ-u šila-∅-œ
cake-ABS someone-ERG eat-PLU-3S=SBRD-ACC notice-PFT-1S

I saw that someone had eaten the cake.

Tòuruþ ambea hurmunzumbeþu šilònži.
[ˈtɔu̯ruθ ˈambea hurmunˈd͡zumbeθu ʃiˈlɔnd͡ʒi]
tòuruþ-∅ ambe-a hórum-unzu-t-hèiþ-u šila-unzu-œ
cake-ABS someone-ERG eat-PROG-3S=SBRD-ACC notice-PROG-1S

I see that someone is eating the cake.

Tòuruþ ambea hurmuzumbeþu šilònži.
[ˈtɔu̯ruθ ˈambea hurmuˈzumbeθu ʃiˈlɔnd͡ʒi]
tòuruþ-∅ ambe-a hórum-su-t-hèiþ-u šila-unzu-œ
cake-ABS someone-ERG eat-PLU-3S=SBRD-ACC notice-PROG-1S

I see that someone has eaten the cake.
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